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Main
Date: 27 Nov 2006 07:24:33
From: Ryan Case
Subject: strange taste
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O.K. I fly sparge in a rect. cooler. For teach a friend to brew day our
club all got together and brewed the same Mack'n Jack Amber recipe.
Everyone else in the club batch sparges in converted kegs. My problem is
this. My beer has a strange almost wet dish towel taste on the sides of
your tongue. I can logically narrow it down to something that we did
during the mash/boil because the guy that I split the batch with
fermented desperately from me and with a different strain of yeast then
me, but has the same taste. The beer isn't undrinkable, but it really
isn't enjoyable either. You can tell that it would be a pretty good beer
without the off flavor. I have brewed an oatmeal stout since then, and
don't detect anything similar in that. Any thoughts on what could have
caused this?
Ryan
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 17:03:51
From: Bart Goddard
Subject: Re: strange taste
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usenet@jamesrobert.us wrote:
> I fly sparge in a rect. cooler.
> My beer has a strange almost wet dish towel taste
I think your problem is that rectal cooler.
B.
--
The man without a .sig
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 11:34:21
From:
Subject: Re: strange taste
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Ryan Case wrote:
> this. My beer has a strange almost wet dish towel taste on the sides of
> your tongue. I can logically narrow it down to something that we did
> during the mash/boil because the guy that I split the batch with
> fermented desperately from me and with a different strain of yeast then
> me, but has the same taste. The beer isn't undrinkable, but it really
Oxidation maybe? Does it taste kind of like wet cardboard? - That's a
common description of oxidized beer...
Hard to say without further details of your recipe & procedure.
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 11:52:18
From: Ryan Case
Subject: Re: strange taste
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tkcbb77@hotmail.com wrote:
> Ryan Case wrote:
>
>> this. My beer has a strange almost wet dish towel taste on the sides of
>> your tongue. I can logically narrow it down to something that we did
>> during the mash/boil because the guy that I split the batch with
>> fermented desperately from me and with a different strain of yeast then
>> me, but has the same taste. The beer isn't undrinkable, but it really
>
> Oxidation maybe? Does it taste kind of like wet cardboard? - That's a
> common description of oxidized beer...
>
> Hard to say without further details of your recipe & procedure.
>
I use a two tier three vessel system. I have a converted keg on the
left, a cooler in the middle elevated, and a second keg on the right. I
pump from the keg on the left up to the cooler for mash/sparge, then
drain down to the bottom of the keg on the right with gravity during
sparge. The only thing that I did different this time was to pump the
finished wort up into another brewer's boil kettle in order to use his
shirron chiller that is mounted to his system.
I bet that is where it happened. I bet I oxidized it by pumping the hot
wort up into his boil kettle. Damn! I bet this is my first case of HSA.
Anything I can do to fix this? I was thinking that maybe I would brew
something else, stronger flavored and mix the two. Maybe make a strong
porter and then mix the two? Do you think that the porter might be
capable of covering the oxidation flavor? I hate to dump it, but I brew
so that I don't have to drink mediocre beer and I doubt that I will
drink it while there are better things around.
Thanks,
Ryan
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 14:14:35
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: strange taste
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Ryan Case wrote:
> tkcbb77@hotmail.com wrote:
>> Ryan Case wrote:
>>
>>> this. My beer has a strange almost wet dish towel taste on the sides of
>>> your tongue. I can logically narrow it down to something that we did
>>> during the mash/boil because the guy that I split the batch with
>>> fermented desperately from me and with a different strain of yeast then
>>> me, but has the same taste. The beer isn't undrinkable, but it really
>>
>> Oxidation maybe? Does it taste kind of like wet cardboard? - That's a
>> common description of oxidized beer...
>>
>> Hard to say without further details of your recipe & procedure.
>>
>
> I use a two tier three vessel system. I have a converted keg on the
> left, a cooler in the middle elevated, and a second keg on the right. I
> pump from the keg on the left up to the cooler for mash/sparge, then
> drain down to the bottom of the keg on the right with gravity during
> sparge. The only thing that I did different this time was to pump the
> finished wort up into another brewer's boil kettle in order to use his
> shirron chiller that is mounted to his system.
>
> I bet that is where it happened. I bet I oxidized it by pumping the hot
> wort up into his boil kettle. Damn! I bet this is my first case of HSA.
>
> Anything I can do to fix this? I was thinking that maybe I would brew
> something else, stronger flavored and mix the two. Maybe make a strong
> porter and then mix the two? Do you think that the porter might be
> capable of covering the oxidation flavor? I hate to dump it, but I brew
> so that I don't have to drink mediocre beer and I doubt that I will
> drink it while there are better things around.
I doubt it's HSA, which supposedly takes a very long time to develop.
Note that the extent to HSA is really an issue for homebrewers is a
matter of some debate.
Post fermentation oxidation is another matter, of course -- always bad.
Is it possible the equipment you were using (including the chiller) had
been cleaned or sanitized with anything and then poorly rinsed (or not
rinsed at all)?
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 12:38:30
From: Ryan Case
Subject: Re: strange taste
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The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty wrote:
> Ryan Case wrote:
>> tkcbb77@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> Ryan Case wrote:
>>>
>>>> this. My beer has a strange almost wet dish towel taste on the sides of
>>>> your tongue. I can logically narrow it down to something that we did
>>>> during the mash/boil because the guy that I split the batch with
>>>> fermented desperately from me and with a different strain of yeast then
>>>> me, but has the same taste. The beer isn't undrinkable, but it really
>>>
>>> Oxidation maybe? Does it taste kind of like wet cardboard? - That's a
>>> common description of oxidized beer...
>>>
>>> Hard to say without further details of your recipe & procedure.
>>>
>>
>> I use a two tier three vessel system. I have a converted keg on the
>> left, a cooler in the middle elevated, and a second keg on the right.
>> I pump from the keg on the left up to the cooler for mash/sparge, then
>> drain down to the bottom of the keg on the right with gravity during
>> sparge. The only thing that I did different this time was to pump the
>> finished wort up into another brewer's boil kettle in order to use his
>> shirron chiller that is mounted to his system.
>>
>> I bet that is where it happened. I bet I oxidized it by pumping the
>> hot wort up into his boil kettle. Damn! I bet this is my first case of
>> HSA.
>>
>> Anything I can do to fix this? I was thinking that maybe I would brew
>> something else, stronger flavored and mix the two. Maybe make a strong
>> porter and then mix the two? Do you think that the porter might be
>> capable of covering the oxidation flavor? I hate to dump it, but I
>> brew so that I don't have to drink mediocre beer and I doubt that I
>> will drink it while there are better things around.
>
> I doubt it's HSA, which supposedly takes a very long time to develop.
> Note that the extent to HSA is really an issue for homebrewers is a
> matter of some debate.
>
> Post fermentation oxidation is another matter, of course -- always bad.
>
> Is it possible the equipment you were using (including the chiller) had
> been cleaned or sanitized with anything and then poorly rinsed (or not
> rinsed at all)?
>
That's the thing that leads me to believe that it was something in my
brew procedures. Three five gallon batches were left at my house. The
two that were brewed on my equipment (split 10 gallon batch with
different yeasts) both have this off flavor. The one that was brewed on
someone else's equipment (the equipment with the shirron chiller) does
not. The two with the funny taste had the funny taste when moving from
primary to secondary. I am the one who cleaned all the equipment in the
mix, except the chiller, but the five gallons that went through the
chiller right before mine is fine. The only thing I use to clean is
fresh water, then Iodophor, then fresh water rinse.
Ryan
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 14:54:30
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: strange taste
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Ryan Case wrote:
>
> That's the thing that leads me to believe that it was something in my
> brew procedures. Three five gallon batches were left at my house. The
> two that were brewed on my equipment (split 10 gallon batch with
> different yeasts) both have this off flavor. The one that was brewed on
> someone else's equipment (the equipment with the shirron chiller) does
> not. The two with the funny taste had the funny taste when moving from
> primary to secondary. I am the one who cleaned all the equipment in the
> mix, except the chiller, but the five gallons that went through the
> chiller right before mine is fine. The only thing I use to clean is
> fresh water, then Iodophor, then fresh water rinse.
How were the two that did not use the chiller chilled? Were there
differences in pitching and fermenting temps?
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 13:21:37
From: Ryan Case
Subject: Re: strange taste
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The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty wrote:
> Ryan Case wrote:
>>
>> That's the thing that leads me to believe that it was something in my
>> brew procedures. Three five gallon batches were left at my house. The
>> two that were brewed on my equipment (split 10 gallon batch with
>> different yeasts) both have this off flavor. The one that was brewed
>> on someone else's equipment (the equipment with the shirron chiller)
>> does not. The two with the funny taste had the funny taste when moving
>> from primary to secondary. I am the one who cleaned all the equipment
>> in the mix, except the chiller, but the five gallons that went through
>> the chiller right before mine is fine. The only thing I use to clean
>> is fresh water, then Iodophor, then fresh water rinse.
>
> How were the two that did not use the chiller chilled? Were there
> differences in pitching and fermenting temps?
>
I think that you misunderstood me.
We had five guys there with their systems, they each brewed 10 gallons.
When I was done with my 10 gallons I then pumped it into another
brewer's system, right after the boil, in order to use his chiller.
We split it out of his chiller into a 6.5 gallon carboy and a 7 gallon
bucket.
I pitched WLP001 and my buddy pitched WLP005. These two have that wet
bar towel taste on the sides of my tongue.
Another friend who split the ten gallons that came out of the system
with the chiller, before we pumped ours up there, also left his wort in
a carboy in my garage right next to the two that have the funny taste.
His is fine. He also pitched 001.
So three samples.
Same yeast, more or less, the 001 came from the same starter, but I have
five gallons that used 001 and five that used 005 with the same problem
so I feel safe eliminating the yeast.
Same fermenting temp, all of them were in my garage.
Same chiller.
Same water source.
Same grain source.
Same hop source.
Different mash tuns and boil kettles. Only real difference is that we
transfered our wort hot into the other guys boil kettle in order to use
his chiller.
Looks like I just need to convince SHMBO that I need a plate chiller to
make sure that was the problem. LOL
Ryan
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Date: 28 Nov 2006 22:11:27
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: strange taste
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On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 11:52:18 -0800, <usenet@jamesrobert.us > wrote:
> I bet that is where it happened. I bet I oxidized it by pumping the hot
> wort up into his boil kettle. Damn! I bet this is my first case of HSA.
IMO, HSA is probably a lot more difficult to create than a lot of
brewers think (people tend to be over paranoid about it). However, sending
boiled/unchilled wort through a pump sounds pretty abusive to me. I've
heard a lot of HSA theories in the past that I've tended to just roll my
eyes at. However, this one sounds fairly reasonable.
That is assuming we're really talking about oxidation. "Dish towel" isn't
a description I've heard often, so it may be something else. Something
subjective like a flavor is difficult to describe in text.
John.
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Date: 28 Nov 2006 21:31:54
From: David M. Taylor
Subject: Re: strange taste
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"John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" <spam@shagg.net > wrote in message
news:slrnempdae.cp3.spam@weizen.shagg.net...
> On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 11:52:18 -0800, <usenet@jamesrobert.us> wrote:
>> I bet that is where it happened. I bet I oxidized it by pumping the hot
>> wort up into his boil kettle. Damn! I bet this is my first case of HSA.
>
> IMO, HSA is probably a lot more difficult to create than a lot of
> brewers think (people tend to be over paranoid about it). However,
> sending
> boiled/unchilled wort through a pump sounds pretty abusive to me. I've
> heard a lot of HSA theories in the past that I've tended to just roll my
> eyes at. However, this one sounds fairly reasonable.
>
> That is assuming we're really talking about oxidation. "Dish towel" isn't
> a description I've heard often, so it may be something else. Something
> subjective like a flavor is difficult to describe in text.
I've experienced something I would describe as "sweaty socks" in the aroma,
which was most certainly oxidation, the beer totally tasted like cardboard.
"Dish towel" could either be oxidation or contamination, or both.
--
Dave
"Fill your cup with whatever bitter brew you're drinking." -- Brad Paisley
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