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Main
Date: 21 Jun 2006 08:17:28
From: speckking
Subject: slow/no clarification in secondary
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Hi all,
I finally made the switch to all grain after several partial mashes,
all of which have been very good. My current all grain batch has been
in the secondary for a week now and has a good cake of yeast at the
botton but shows no signs of clearing up. It is uniformly cloudy from
top to bottom. My recipe and procedure was:
6.5 pounds crisp maris otter
.5 pounds crisp amber
.25 pounds briess caramel
.5 pounds quick oats
single step infusion mash at 152 degrees for 90 minutes.
batch sparged
OG=1.034
pitched smack pack of wyeast whitbread ale yeast and pack of safbrew
s-04 dry yeast (the smack pack failed to swell after 6 hours so I added
the dry yeast as insurance).
It fermented out in 2.5 days (gravity was 1.008 in 4 days) at which
time I racked to secondary).
There is no evidence of fermentation in secondary (no gravity change,
not a hint of foaming) but also no evidence of clarification. I live
way down south and the room temp is 76-78 degrees. I use evaporative
cooling to get the temp down 2-4 degrees.
I'm a patient fellow but usually by now some clarification at the top
of the beer is apparent. If it doesn't clarify in another week, I think
I'll just bottle anyway. Any thoughts?
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Date: 21 Jun 2006 09:09:42
From: speckking
Subject: Re: slow/no clarification in secondary
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Scott L wrote:
> speckking wrote:
> > .5 pounds quick oats
> >
> > single step infusion mash at 152 degrees for 90 minutes.
> > batch sparged
> > OG=1.034
>
> Looks like you do your mashes correctly, so this probably isn't starch
> haze. Like Shaggy I suspect the oats. Can you draw off a glass of beer
> from the carboy? Just to get an idea how cloudy it looks in a glass. It
> could be a protein haze.
>
> The lazy thing to do would be to put the carboy in a refrigerator (if
> you have one that will fit it) and let the haze settle out. Then gently
> remove the carboy and rack, either into a bottling bucket or a tertiary
> fermenter.
>
> A slightly less but still pretty damn lazy thing to do would be to try
> using some bentonite, Polyclar, gelatin, or some other type of finings
> to try to settle out the haze.
>
> Some people might tell you not to worry about the haze. But I think
> there's nothing wrong with wanting to get rid of it. Nothing quite so
> aesthetically pleasing as a crystal clear glass of beer! And when your
> friends ask you if you filter, you can say "no" and bask in their awe
> of your mad skills :-)
>
> Scott
I started using oats in my partial mashes and love its effect on head
retention and quality. My last partial mash was a british bitter, with
oats, using the safbrew s-04 yeast. It clarified very quickly in the
secondary. I did have some chill haze however, which I don't really
care abou, although I agree it does look better in the class when it is
crystal clear. I'll wait and see how it turns out and possible repeat
the recipe but without the oats next time.
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Date: 21 Jun 2006 17:31:44
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: slow/no clarification in secondary
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On 21 Jun 2006 09:09:42 -0700, <lewis.roussel@earthlink.net > wrote:
> I started using oats in my partial mashes and love its effect on head
> retention and quality.
Both wheat and oats tend to help head retention, because of the high protein
content. However, the proteins also tend to make the beer cloudier (wheat
is especially known for this).
> I did have some chill haze however, which I don't really care abou,
IIRC, chill haze is also due to proteins. Making sure you get a good cold
break after the boil should help.
John.
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Date: 21 Jun 2006 08:50:18
From: Scott L
Subject: Re: slow/no clarification in secondary
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speckking wrote:
> .5 pounds quick oats
>
> single step infusion mash at 152 degrees for 90 minutes.
> batch sparged
> OG=1.034
Looks like you do your mashes correctly, so this probably isn't starch
haze. Like Shaggy I suspect the oats. Can you draw off a glass of beer
from the carboy? Just to get an idea how cloudy it looks in a glass. It
could be a protein haze.
The lazy thing to do would be to put the carboy in a refrigerator (if
you have one that will fit it) and let the haze settle out. Then gently
remove the carboy and rack, either into a bottling bucket or a tertiary
fermenter.
A slightly less but still pretty damn lazy thing to do would be to try
using some bentonite, Polyclar, gelatin, or some other type of finings
to try to settle out the haze.
Some people might tell you not to worry about the haze. But I think
there's nothing wrong with wanting to get rid of it. Nothing quite so
aesthetically pleasing as a crystal clear glass of beer! And when your
friends ask you if you filter, you can say "no" and bask in their awe
of your mad skills :-)
Scott
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Date: 21 Jun 2006 15:30:50
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: slow/no clarification in secondary
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On 21 Jun 2006 08:17:28 -0700, <lewis.roussel@earthlink.net > wrote:
> My recipe and procedure was:
>
> 6.5 pounds crisp maris otter
> .5 pounds crisp amber
> .25 pounds briess caramel
> .5 pounds quick oats
>
...
>
> I'm a patient fellow but usually by now some clarification at the top
> of the beer is apparent. If it doesn't clarify in another week, I think
> I'll just bottle anyway. Any thoughts?
I wonder if it's the oats that are causing it? I don't see oats used too
often except in a stout, where clarity isn't much of an issue. IMO, let
it sit for another week or so like you plan. Cloudy beer isn't too big
of a deal, it should still taste fine.
John.
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Date: 21 Jun 2006 13:08:17
From: speckking
Subject: Re: slow/no clarification in secondary
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Derric wrote:
>
> Hey, use the tap water thru the immersion chiller first, until you get
> the wort down somewhere around 100F. THEN switch over to the ice/pump
> circulation. That combination works great! I only use 2 or 3 frozen
> milk jugs worth of ice this way (busted up with a hammer). And stir,
> stir, stir.
>
> Derric
I like that! And I get to return to the hardware store to rig up a
connection to my spigot!
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Date: 21 Jun 2006 20:54:21
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: slow/no clarification in secondary
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On 21 Jun 2006 13:08:17 -0700, <lewis.roussel@earthlink.net > wrote:
>
> Derric wrote:
>>
>> Hey, use the tap water thru the immersion chiller first, until you get
>> the wort down somewhere around 100F. THEN switch over to the ice/pump
>> circulation. That combination works great! I only use 2 or 3 frozen
>> milk jugs worth of ice this way (busted up with a hammer). And stir,
>> stir, stir.
>>
>> Derric
>
> I like that! And I get to return to the hardware store to rig up a
> connection to my spigot!
Yeah, the rate of chilling is related to how far apart the temps are. 200F
wort and 80F tap water are far enough apart that you will get good cooling.
Adding ice at this point is just a waste of ice. Once the wort temp gets a
lot closer to your tap water temp, that's when the ice starts to pay off.
John.
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Date: 21 Jun 2006 11:40:53
From: speckking
Subject: Re: slow/no clarification in secondary
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> On 21 Jun 2006 09:09:42 -0700, <lewis.roussel@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > I started using oats in my partial mashes and love its effect on head
> > retention and quality.
>
> Both wheat and oats tend to help head retention, because of the high protein
> content. However, the proteins also tend to make the beer cloudier (wheat
> is especially known for this).
>
> > I did have some chill haze however, which I don't really care abou,
>
> IIRC, chill haze is also due to proteins. Making sure you get a good cold
> break after the boil should help.
>
>
> John.
The cold break is where I'm going to have to work harder. I built an
immersion chiller but the tap water temperature down here in summer is
80 degrees or above (our water pipes pass through the attic). So I
tried another approach. I bought a fountain pump, which I submerge in
an ice chest. I fill the ice chest with ice and a little water and pump
this through the immersion chiller. The return flow goes back into the
ice chest. I calculated that around 15 gallons of water at 32 degrees
should drop 6 gallons of 200 degree wort to below 80 degrees. I also
assumed that if I made sure there was plenty of ice in the cooler once
the water temperature had stabilized at 32 degrees that this was
equivalent to a temperature well below 32 degrees. Good idea in theory
but in practice I purchased too little ice too early in the day. By the
time I was ready to begin chilling my water bath was above 32 degrees.
I was able to get the wort down to about 120 degrees and then moved the
pot into the bath tub filled with tap water. By then end it took about
5 hours to get it down to 80 degrees, at which time I transferred to
primary and pitched yeast. Too warm I know but it was bed time and I
wouldn't have time to take care of the next morning. So I doubt I had
much of a cold break.
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Date: 21 Jun 2006 19:47:11
From: Derric
Subject: Re: slow/no clarification in secondary
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> ... I bought a fountain pump, which I submerge in an ice chest. ...
> ...
> but in practice I purchased too little ice too early in the day. By the
> time I was ready to begin chilling my water bath was above 32 degrees.
> I was able to get the wort down to about 120 degrees
Hey, use the tap water thru the immersion chiller first, until you get
the wort down somewhere around 100F. THEN switch over to the ice/pump
circulation. That combination works great! I only use 2 or 3 frozen
milk jugs worth of ice this way (busted up with a hammer). And stir,
stir, stir.
Derric
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