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Date: 22 Jul 2006 20:27:35
From: Ryan Case
Subject: question about racking to secondary
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A friend of mine from the local brew club has kind of become my brewing
buddy. I have equipment and he didn't and he is a nice guy.
He came to me with the weizen recipe out of the brewing for dummies book
and asked if I would like to brew it with him. I am not a huge fan of
wheat beer, but I want to be as encouraging as possible so I said sure.
Anyway, to cut to the chase. This was the first batch that I have
primaried in my fermentation freezer at 60 degrees. (It's new equipment
to me) It is now a week later (sat. to sat.) and there is still a good
layer of krausen on the top of the beer. The recipe said to rack to
secondary after six days, but it seems premature if there is still that
kind of visible activity. BTW, it is all in one big 12 gallon fermenting
bucket with a loose fitting lid.
Is there any reason I should rack this to secondary before the yeast
falls? This is new ground for me, I had always primaried too warm in the
past and it had finished in a couple of days. If it would help I could
snap a photo of the top and post it to a website.
All constructive thoughts appreciated.
Ryan
Recipe and notes follow.
10 gallons
Base Grain:
10 lbs wheat malt
6 lbs 2-row ale malt
Speciality grain:
1lb 10-L Munich malt
Bitterin hops:
.25 oz. Galena (12 AAU) 90 mins
1 oz. Perle (8AAU) 60 mins
2 oz. Hallertauer (4.2 AAU) 60 mins
Finishing hops:
1 oz. Hallertauer 5 mins
Yeast: Wyeast # 3068 We had a very active .5 gallon starter of this made
with DME
Fining agent: 1 tsp Irish moss at 10 mins. Left in boil
Primary: 6 days at 60 degrees F
Secondary: 7 days at 60 degrees F
Dough in with 160F produced 149F.
Held there for approx 90 minutes by placing lid on cooler.
Made 5 gallons of cherry wine.
We ran off 11.5 gallons in a fly sparge set up.
Last runnings were 1.010.
90 minute boil produced 10 gallons on my system.
Pitched yeast starter into bottom of fermenter in fermenting freezer and
then violently transfered wort on top of starter.
Activity within 6 hours.
Fermented over, slightly, at about 30 hours and has been very slowly
sinking back down since.
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Date: 23 Jul 2006 09:08:41
From: Larry Bristol
Subject: Re: question about racking to secondary
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Ryan Case wrote:
> [...]
> Is there any reason I should rack this to secondary before the yeast
> falls?
> [...]
I would say no. The yeast is obviously determining its *own* schedule, and
it seems to be saying that primary fermentation is not yet complete. Give
it a while longer.
--
Larry Bristol --- The Double Luck
http://www.doubleluck.com
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Date: 23 Jul 2006 14:03:17
From: Brian
Subject: Re: question about racking to secondary
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It won't hurt it to rack it. Racking can prevent the beer from picking up
off flavors from any trub that remains in the bottom of your fermenter. I
know an award winning brewer that racks as early as one day after
fermentation starts for what that is worth....
"Ryan Case" <usenet@jamesrobert.us > wrote in message
news:e9uqd2$5v5$1@nntp.aioe.org...
>A friend of mine from the local brew club has kind of become my brewing
>buddy. I have equipment and he didn't and he is a nice guy.
>
> He came to me with the weizen recipe out of the brewing for dummies book
> and asked if I would like to brew it with him. I am not a huge fan of
> wheat beer, but I want to be as encouraging as possible so I said sure.
>
> Anyway, to cut to the chase. This was the first batch that I have
> primaried in my fermentation freezer at 60 degrees. (It's new equipment to
> me) It is now a week later (sat. to sat.) and there is still a good layer
> of krausen on the top of the beer. The recipe said to rack to secondary
> after six days, but it seems premature if there is still that kind of
> visible activity. BTW, it is all in one big 12 gallon fermenting bucket
> with a loose fitting lid.
>
> Is there any reason I should rack this to secondary before the yeast
> falls? This is new ground for me, I had always primaried too warm in the
> past and it had finished in a couple of days. If it would help I could
> snap a photo of the top and post it to a website.
>
> All constructive thoughts appreciated.
>
> Ryan
>
> Recipe and notes follow.
>
>
> 10 gallons
> Base Grain:
> 10 lbs wheat malt 6 lbs 2-row ale malt
> Speciality grain:
> 1lb 10-L Munich malt
> Bitterin hops:
> .25 oz. Galena (12 AAU) 90 mins 1 oz. Perle (8AAU) 60 mins 2 oz.
> Hallertauer (4.2 AAU) 60 mins Finishing hops:
>
> 1 oz. Hallertauer 5 mins
> Yeast: Wyeast # 3068 We had a very active .5 gallon starter of this made
> with DME
> Fining agent: 1 tsp Irish moss at 10 mins. Left in boil
> Primary: 6 days at 60 degrees F
> Secondary: 7 days at 60 degrees F
> Dough in with 160F produced 149F.
> Held there for approx 90 minutes by placing lid on cooler.
> Made 5 gallons of cherry wine.
> We ran off 11.5 gallons in a fly sparge set up.
> Last runnings were 1.010.
> 90 minute boil produced 10 gallons on my system. Pitched yeast starter
> into bottom of fermenter in fermenting freezer and then violently
> transfered wort on top of starter.
> Activity within 6 hours.
> Fermented over, slightly, at about 30 hours and has been very slowly
> sinking back down since.
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Date: 24 Jul 2006 09:49:26
From: Dave Smith
Subject: Re: question about racking to secondary
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Since I have moved to a fermentation fridge I find the crousen just goes
on forever (or at least a week and a half). So now I am racking after
one week to prevent the beer from sitting on the trub for too long. I
use a nice long hose so that I can prevent any splashing.
Dave
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Date: 23 Jul 2006 18:34:12
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: question about racking to secondary
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On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 20:27:35 -0700, <usenet@jamesrobert.us > wrote:
> Anyway, to cut to the chase. This was the first batch that I have
> primaried in my fermentation freezer at 60 degrees. (It's new equipment
> to me) It is now a week later (sat. to sat.) and there is still a good
> layer of krausen on the top of the beer. The recipe said to rack to
> secondary after six days, but it seems premature if there is still that
> kind of visible activity. BTW, it is all in one big 12 gallon fermenting
> bucket with a loose fitting lid.
The timing of when to rack to secondary is pretty much up to you. There's
no rule of when is a good time, it doesn't really matter. Personally I
usually wait until the krausen falls. However, wheat beers are different.
Due to the high protein content, the head (and krausen during fermentation)
on a wheat beer tends to be really sticky. By that I mean that it takes a
lot longer for it to fall, even after fermentation activity has died down.
For these types of beers, the presence of a krausen doesn't automatically
mean that you still have vigorous fermentation activity. I often still have
a krausen sitting on my wheat beers when I rack them to secondary. Don't
worry about it, it's fairly normal.
If you want to rack now, go ahead and do it.
John.
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Date: 23 Jul 2006 14:46:38
From: Ryan Case
Subject: Re: question about racking to secondary
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 20:27:35 -0700, <usenet@jamesrobert.us> wrote:
>
>>Anyway, to cut to the chase. This was the first batch that I have
>>primaried in my fermentation freezer at 60 degrees. (It's new equipment
>>to me) It is now a week later (sat. to sat.) and there is still a good
>>layer of krausen on the top of the beer. The recipe said to rack to
>>secondary after six days, but it seems premature if there is still that
>>kind of visible activity. BTW, it is all in one big 12 gallon fermenting
>>bucket with a loose fitting lid.
>
>
> The timing of when to rack to secondary is pretty much up to you. There's
> no rule of when is a good time, it doesn't really matter. Personally I
> usually wait until the krausen falls. However, wheat beers are different.
> Due to the high protein content, the head (and krausen during fermentation)
> on a wheat beer tends to be really sticky. By that I mean that it takes a
> lot longer for it to fall, even after fermentation activity has died down.
> For these types of beers, the presence of a krausen doesn't automatically
> mean that you still have vigorous fermentation activity. I often still have
> a krausen sitting on my wheat beers when I rack them to secondary. Don't
> worry about it, it's fairly normal.
>
> If you want to rack now, go ahead and do it.
>
>
> John.
Well, I racked, for two reasons. I wanted the big 12 gallon fermenter to
be open for the porter I brewed this morning and put in it. And the guy
I am splitting the batch with is a "letter of the law" type.
I am getting a little activity out of it in the secondaries in the freezer.
I am sure it is fine.
Ryan
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Date: 24 Jul 2006 07:18:50
From: David M. Taylor
Subject: Re: question about racking to secondary
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"Ryan Case" <usenet@jamesrobert.us > wrote in message
news:e9uqd2$5v5$1@nntp.aioe.org...
>A friend of mine from the local brew club has kind of become my brewing
>buddy. I have equipment and he didn't and he is a nice guy.
>
> He came to me with the weizen recipe out of the brewing for dummies book
> and asked if I would like to brew it with him. I am not a huge fan of
> wheat beer, but I want to be as encouraging as possible so I said sure.
>
> Anyway, to cut to the chase. This was the first batch that I have
> primaried in my fermentation freezer at 60 degrees. (It's new equipment to
> me) It is now a week later (sat. to sat.) and there is still a good layer
> of krausen on the top of the beer. The recipe said to rack to secondary
> after six days, but it seems premature if there is still that kind of
> visible activity. BTW, it is all in one big 12 gallon fermenting bucket
> with a loose fitting lid.
>
> Is there any reason I should rack this to secondary before the yeast
> falls? This is new ground for me, I had always primaried too warm in the
> past and it had finished in a couple of days. If it would help I could
> snap a photo of the top and post it to a website.
>
> All constructive thoughts appreciated.
Call me crazy, but I think 60 F is too cold a fermentation temperature for a
weizen -- Bavarian weizen, that is. Typically I believe weizens should be
fermented at 67-72 F or thereabouts, cooler temps will give you more clovy
flavors, and warmer temps will give you more banana. I'm sure your beer
will be all clove and no banana, which is fine (BTW, that's the way I like
it too). Cooler temperatures will not only affect flavor, but will also
slow down your fermentation, which might explain why it's taking longer to
ferment than anticipated. It won't hurt a thing to rack it, whenever you
want.
My next two comments are things for you to consider also for next time you
or your friend make a weizen (if ever). First, why the finishing hops?
Late hop additions, while not unheard of, are not necessary in a weizen,
based on style anyway. And second, weizen beers are typically cloudy.
There should be no reason to add Irish moss in an attempt to clarify your
beer that is supposed to be cloudy, unless you purposely wanted a clearer
weizen. Just suggestions. I do realize that you were following a book
recipe, and if you followed it to the "letter of the law", then that's cool,
no offense to you or to the recipe author.
--
Dave
"Just a drink, a little drink, and I'll be feeling GOOooOOooOOooD!" --
Genesis, 1973-ish
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Date: 24 Jul 2006 06:34:52
From: Ryan Case
Subject: Re: question about racking to secondary
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David M. Taylor wrote:
> "Ryan Case" <usenet@jamesrobert.us> wrote in message
> news:e9uqd2$5v5$1@nntp.aioe.org...
>> A friend of mine from the local brew club has kind of become my brewing
>> buddy. I have equipment and he didn't and he is a nice guy.
>>
>> He came to me with the weizen recipe out of the brewing for dummies book
>> and asked if I would like to brew it with him. I am not a huge fan of
>> wheat beer, but I want to be as encouraging as possible so I said sure.
>>
>> Anyway, to cut to the chase. This was the first batch that I have
>> primaried in my fermentation freezer at 60 degrees. (It's new equipment to
>> me) It is now a week later (sat. to sat.) and there is still a good layer
>> of krausen on the top of the beer. The recipe said to rack to secondary
>> after six days, but it seems premature if there is still that kind of
>> visible activity. BTW, it is all in one big 12 gallon fermenting bucket
>> with a loose fitting lid.
>>
>> Is there any reason I should rack this to secondary before the yeast
>> falls? This is new ground for me, I had always primaried too warm in the
>> past and it had finished in a couple of days. If it would help I could
>> snap a photo of the top and post it to a website.
>>
>> All constructive thoughts appreciated.
>
> Call me crazy, but I think 60 F is too cold a fermentation temperature for a
> weizen -- Bavarian weizen, that is. Typically I believe weizens should be
> fermented at 67-72 F or thereabouts, cooler temps will give you more clovy
> flavors, and warmer temps will give you more banana. I'm sure your beer
> will be all clove and no banana, which is fine (BTW, that's the way I like
> it too). Cooler temperatures will not only affect flavor, but will also
> slow down your fermentation, which might explain why it's taking longer to
> ferment than anticipated. It won't hurt a thing to rack it, whenever you
> want.
>
> My next two comments are things for you to consider also for next time you
> or your friend make a weizen (if ever). First, why the finishing hops?
> Late hop additions, while not unheard of, are not necessary in a weizen,
> based on style anyway. And second, weizen beers are typically cloudy.
> There should be no reason to add Irish moss in an attempt to clarify your
> beer that is supposed to be cloudy, unless you purposely wanted a clearer
> weizen. Just suggestions. I do realize that you were following a book
> recipe, and if you followed it to the "letter of the law", then that's cool,
> no offense to you or to the recipe author.
>
I personally could do without wheat in any of my beers, so I knew
nothing about the style when he came to me with his recipe. He is in the
process of moving from extract to all grain by brewing with me until he
is ready to go it alone. I enjoy brewing enough that I will brew just
about anything with just about anyone. I would be willing to bet that it
will be a year at least until I brew anything with wheat in it again.
Between now and then I am going to pick up the book "Designing great
Beers". So that when someone comes to me with a recipe that I am not
familiar with the style I can do some quick research and see how well it
fits with what they are trying to accomplish.
The recipe was titled "Ice 'n Weizen" in his book if that makes any
difference.
Thanks for the thoughts.
Ryan
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