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Date: 25 Sep 2006 20:30:19
From: satellite_chris
Subject: paintball tank for co2 source
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This is an adapter that allows you to connect a CGA-320 (.825-14
NGO-RH) Standard Paintball Cylinder to a common regulator. They want
$25 for it. What is unique about it is that it is a left hand thread
which works with your run of the mill regulator.
http://www.opustap.com/cart/product_info.php?products_id=59
Anyone know where you can get such an adapter for less? Or some kind
of adapter to take a left hand thread to a right hand thread?
There is a good article on beertech.net that revolves around using a
right hand thread regulator:
http://www.beertech.net/e107_plugins/wrap/wrap.php?
Maybe by the time you buy the paintball remote fill adapter, reducers,
nipples etc you are better off just dropping the 25 beans!
Anyone have any suggestion on the cheapest way to accomplish this?
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Date: 25 Sep 2006 21:18:08
From: Lefty Skywalker
Subject: Re: paintball tank for co2 source
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satellite_chris wrote:
> This is an adapter that allows you to connect a CGA-320 (.825-14
> NGO-RH) Standard Paintball Cylinder to a common regulator. They want
> $25 for it. What is unique about it is that it is a left hand thread
> which works with your run of the mill regulator.
>
> http://www.opustap.com/cart/product_info.php?products_id=59
>
>
> Anyone know where you can get such an adapter for less? Or some kind
> of adapter to take a left hand thread to a right hand thread?
>
> There is a good article on beertech.net that revolves around using a
> right hand thread regulator:
>
> http://www.beertech.net/e107_plugins/wrap/wrap.php?
>
> Maybe by the time you buy the paintball remote fill adapter, reducers,
> nipples etc you are better off just dropping the 25 beans!
>
> Anyone have any suggestion on the cheapest way to accomplish this?
At the local welding shop I just priced out a regulator and a 5 lb tank
at $180. This is $40 more than Midwest for the same two items ($140),
and for $165 I can get their basic keg kit. You know, with a keg. I
doubt it will pay in the end to go looking for other solutions. Just
the fittings to buy will eat up all the savings.
--
Daniel O. Miller
"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the
fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true
science. Whosoever does not know it and can no longer marvel, is as good
as dead, and his eyes are dimmed." - Albert Einstein
WWYD? (-o-) <* > Genesis 49:17
Real email address: darth dot lefty at golf mike able india lima.
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Date: 26 Sep 2006 14:09:58
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: paintball tank for co2 source
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On 25 Sep 2006 20:30:19 -0700, <satellite_chris@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Anyone have any suggestion on the cheapest way to accomplish this?
What are you trying to accomplish? Do you want to use a paintball tank
for serving your beer, or are you trying to figure out a way of
refilling your paintball tank from your beer tank?
John.
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Date: 26 Sep 2006 10:40:02
From: Dan Logcher
Subject: Re: paintball tank for co2 source
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> On 25 Sep 2006 20:30:19 -0700, <satellite_chris@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Anyone have any suggestion on the cheapest way to accomplish this?
>
>
> What are you trying to accomplish? Do you want to use a paintball tank
> for serving your beer, or are you trying to figure out a way of
> refilling your paintball tank from your beer tank?
These rigs are for serving from portable kegs. PJ build a really nice
one, that to me, seems of better design. But I did not find any mention
of it on his web site.
I'm going to build one also, since I have several paintball tanks.
All I need is the fill adapter and a single gauge regulator.
--
Dan
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Date: 26 Sep 2006 14:05:38
From: PJ
Subject: Re: paintball tank for co2 source
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"Dan Logcher" < > wrote in message ...
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>>
>> What are you trying to accomplish? Do you want to use a paintball tank
>> for serving your beer, or are you trying to figure out a way of
>> refilling your paintball tank from your beer tank?
>
> These rigs are for serving from portable kegs. PJ build a really nice
> one, that to me, seems of better design. But I did not find any mention
> of it on his web site.
>
> I'm going to build one also, since I have several paintball tanks.
> All I need is the fill adapter and a single gauge regulator.
>
Dan,
Thanks for the complement. I never did put up any info on my pages about the
paintball stuff. Seems like there are a lot of things that I seem to not get
to. lol...
I know I posted info on the brewboard but their search function is down.
Ok - here is a link to the pix of the coČ tank and regulator.
http://www.pjmuth.org/beerstuff/images/DSC00783s.JPG
And these are the links to its application:
http://www.pjmuth.org/beerstuff/images/DSC00776s.JPG
http://www.pjmuth.org/beerstuff/images/DSC00781s.JPG
It's a 3 gallon corny in a 10 gallon cooler.
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Date: 26 Sep 2006 13:24:32
From: Mark R
Subject: Re: paintball tank for co2 source
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"PJ" <pj@whoknew.net > wrote in message news:HZdSg.9702>
> Thanks for the complement. I never did put up any info on my pages about
the
> paintball stuff. Seems like there are a lot of things that I seem to not
get
> to. lol...
>
> I know I posted info on the brewboard but their search function is down.
>
> Ok - here is a link to the pix of the coČ tank and regulator.
> http://www.pjmuth.org/beerstuff/images/DSC00783s.JPG
>
> And these are the links to its application:
> http://www.pjmuth.org/beerstuff/images/DSC00776s.JPG
> http://www.pjmuth.org/beerstuff/images/DSC00781s.JPG
>
> It's a 3 gallon corny in a 10 gallon cooler.
And here's a link that explains how to build what looks exactly like the one
you have.
http://www.schwedhelm.net/brew/biggasser.html
Mark R
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Date: 26 Sep 2006 17:46:19
From: Eric Scantlebury
Subject: Re: paintball tank for co2 source
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"Mark R" <marknorayspam@noev1spam.net > wrote in message
news:12his2ssjgp5c31@corp.supernews.com...
> And here's a link that explains how to build what looks exactly like the
> one
> you have.
> http://www.schwedhelm.net/brew/biggasser.html
That's a cool idea. I have a question about the regulator however. In the
beginning of the article he states that the paintball CO2 cartridges can
hold up to 5x the input pressure of 100-250 psi. So that means the
paintball cartridge is at between 500 to 1250psi. He states to use a
"primary" regulator. But when I go to the link the commercial grade
"primary" regulator has a safety blow off at around 55 pounds or so.
So how can this work? Is the normal regulator on a CO2 system a "primary"
regulator? And how much pressure is my 5# tank pushing out to that? And
what exactly is the "safety" blowing off if the tank is pushing out at that
high a psi.
I guess I'm just confused as to the regulator and the safety"ness" of doing
something like this myself.
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Date: 26 Sep 2006 21:55:55
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: paintball tank for co2 source
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On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 17:46:19 -0400, <test@test.com > wrote:
> So how can this work? Is the normal regulator on a CO2 system a "primary"
> regulator? And how much pressure is my 5# tank pushing out to that? And
> what exactly is the "safety" blowing off if the tank is pushing out at that
> high a psi.
I can't help with the rest of it, but a "standard" 5 lbs tank that homebrewers
typically use will contain around 600 PSI (depending on storage temp).
John.
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Date: 27 Sep 2006 09:52:17
From: Mark R
Subject: Re: paintball tank for co2 source
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"Eric Scantlebury" <test@test.com > wrote in message
news:efc70d$87a$1@saturn.services.brown.edu...
>
> "Mark R" <marknorayspam@noev1spam.net> wrote in message
> news:12his2ssjgp5c31@corp.supernews.com...
>
> > And here's a link that explains how to build what looks exactly like the
> > one
> > you have.
> > http://www.schwedhelm.net/brew/biggasser.html
>
> That's a cool idea. I have a question about the regulator however. In
the
> beginning of the article he states that the paintball CO2 cartridges can
> hold up to 5x the input pressure of 100-250 psi. So that means the
> paintball cartridge is at between 500 to 1250psi. He states to use a
> "primary" regulator. But when I go to the link the commercial grade
> "primary" regulator has a safety blow off at around 55 pounds or so.
>
> So how can this work? Is the normal regulator on a CO2 system a "primary"
> regulator? And how much pressure is my 5# tank pushing out to that? And
> what exactly is the "safety" blowing off if the tank is pushing out at
that
> high a psi.
First, the safety valve if properly designed will lift and "blow off" excess
pressure before it reaches a level that would blow out the valve or split
the tank. If properly filled and stored, it should never see those kinds of
pressures. As Richard pointed out the size of the tank doesn't matter, all
size CO2 tanks stored at the same temperature containing both liquid and gas
will be at the same pressure. Therefore those little tanks would act no
differently than you 5 lb tank the average homebrewer uses.
When he said primary he probably meant you to use the same regulator you
would use with the 5 lb tank.
Mark R
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Date: 27 Sep 2006 01:19:55
From: Richard J Kinch
Subject: Re: paintball tank for co2 source
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Eric Scantlebury writes:
> So how can this work? Is the normal regulator on a CO2 system a
> "primary" regulator? And how much pressure is my 5# tank pushing out
> to that?
Any vessel containing CO2 as vapor over liquid (the normal case) contains a
huge pressure upwards of 1000 psi, depending on temperature. The size of
the tank has nothing to do with it.
> I guess I'm just confused as to the regulator and the safety"ness" of
> doing something like this myself.
You should be. Such pressures are very hazardous. The hardware is
carefully designed based on many tragic experiences. Modify it at your
peril:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/msg/d7fb84b4783c8bbd
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Date: 26 Sep 2006 06:39:16
From:
Subject: Re: paintball tank for co2 source
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Lefty Skywalker wrote:
> satellite_chris wrote:
> > This is an adapter that allows you to connect a CGA-320 (.825-14
> > NGO-RH) Standard Paintball Cylinder to a common regulator. They want
> > $25 for it. What is unique about it is that it is a left hand thread
> > which works with your run of the mill regulator.
> >
> > http://www.opustap.com/cart/product_info.php?products_id=59
> >
> >
> > Anyone know where you can get such an adapter for less? Or some kind
> > of adapter to take a left hand thread to a right hand thread?
> >
> > There is a good article on beertech.net that revolves around using a
> > right hand thread regulator:
> >
> > http://www.beertech.net/e107_plugins/wrap/wrap.php?
> >
> > Maybe by the time you buy the paintball remote fill adapter, reducers,
> > nipples etc you are better off just dropping the 25 beans!
> >
> > Anyone have any suggestion on the cheapest way to accomplish this?
>
> At the local welding shop I just priced out a regulator and a 5 lb tank
> at $180. This is $40 more than Midwest for the same two items ($140),
> and for $165 I can get their basic keg kit. You know, with a keg. I
> doubt it will pay in the end to go looking for other solutions. Just
> the fittings to buy will eat up all the savings.
>
I'm betting he wants to use the Paint Ball tank for when he takes the
brews on the road. It's a lot easier to take the PB tank, you don't
have to leave the rest of your setup unpressurized while your away, and
other such stuff.
>
> --
> Daniel O. Miller
>
> "The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the
> fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true
> science. Whosoever does not know it and can no longer marvel, is as good
> as dead, and his eyes are dimmed." - Albert Einstein
>
> WWYD? (-o-) <*> Genesis 49:17
>
> Real email address: darth dot lefty at golf mike able india lima.
Bryan
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Date: 27 Sep 2006 18:40:55
From: Lefty Skywalker
Subject: Re: paintball tank for co2 source
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yournotauser@gmail.com wrote:
> Lefty Skywalker wrote:
>> satellite_chris wrote:
>>> This is an adapter that allows you to connect a CGA-320 (.825-14
>>> NGO-RH) Standard Paintball Cylinder to a common regulator. They want
>>> $25 for it. What is unique about it is that it is a left hand thread
>>> which works with your run of the mill regulator.
>>>
>>> http://www.opustap.com/cart/product_info.php?products_id=59
>>>
>>>
>>> Anyone know where you can get such an adapter for less? Or some kind
>>> of adapter to take a left hand thread to a right hand thread?
>>>
>>> There is a good article on beertech.net that revolves around using a
>>> right hand thread regulator:
>>>
>>> http://www.beertech.net/e107_plugins/wrap/wrap.php?
>>>
>>> Maybe by the time you buy the paintball remote fill adapter, reducers,
>>> nipples etc you are better off just dropping the 25 beans!
>>>
>>> Anyone have any suggestion on the cheapest way to accomplish this?
>> At the local welding shop I just priced out a regulator and a 5 lb tank
>> at $180. This is $40 more than Midwest for the same two items ($140),
>> and for $165 I can get their basic keg kit. You know, with a keg. I
>> doubt it will pay in the end to go looking for other solutions. Just
>> the fittings to buy will eat up all the savings.
>>
>
> I'm betting he wants to use the Paint Ball tank for when he takes the
> brews on the road. It's a lot easier to take the PB tank, you don't
> have to leave the rest of your setup unpressurized while your away, and
> other such stuff.
Now that I see what he's trying to do I'm okay with it, though it seems
like you could get a 2.5 lb tank and the same regulator for about the
same money.
--
Daniel O. Miller
"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the
fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true
science. Whosoever does not know it and can no longer marvel, is as good
as dead, and his eyes are dimmed." - Albert Einstein
WWYD? (-o-) <* > Genesis 49:17
Real email address: darth dot lefty at golf mike able india lima.
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Date: 26 Sep 2006 01:21:06
From: Richard J Kinch
Subject: Re: paintball tank for co2 source
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satellite_chris writes:
> This is an adapter that allows you to connect a CGA-320 (.825-14
> NGO-RH) Standard Paintball Cylinder to a common regulator.
This is an error. The error seems to have propagated widely and
perniciously in the paintball biz, which has faulty engineering non-
standards cobbled together by hobbyists.
Standard CO2 tanks use the CGA 320 fitting. This is the flat-ended
nipple that seals with a washer against the face. The one that brewers
are familiar with on their tanks.
Paintball tanks are *not* CGA-320. I don't know that they are *any* CGA
standard fitting, at least not the ones I am familiar with (see:
http://www.asge-online.com/pdf/CGAConnections.pdf for some CGA fitting
diagrams, none of which match what's on paintball tanks). Paintball
tanks seal with an O-ring around the circumference, and incorporate a
pin valve. I have seen this called an ASA fitting by paintball people,
but this doesn't seem to be a genuine standard.
The confusion likely arises because the CGA 320 threads are very close
to the standard .5-14NPSH straight pipe thread, which has an external
thread major diameter of 0.8108 to 0.8248 inches, and the threaded
portion of the paintball fitting seems to follow this, although with a
relieved portion and O-ring groove, neither of which are CGA 320 or
NPSH.
CO2 pressures are unforgiving of sloppy work implied by paintball
adapters based on goofed-up designs. The compressed gas industry
standards came from many decades of experience and ought not to be
ignored and misapplied. But it is probably too late now for the
paintball manufacturing that has already jumped to China where standards
are further corrupted.
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Date: 26 Sep 2006 01:54:42
From: Richard J Kinch
Subject: Re: paintball tank for co2 source
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Richard J Kinch writes:
> I don't know that they are *any* CGA standard fitting ...
Let me update my own post by noting that there is a proper engineering
standard for the paintball fitting:
ASTM F1750-05, "Specification for Paintball Marker Threaded-Propellant
Source Interface"
The standard covers only 1800 psig or less, which is OK if you're using
CO2, but a lot of paintball is based on 3000 psi or more scuba tanks.
The document also "does not purport to address all of the safety
concerns", at least one of which is that the typical paintball system
involves a series of threaded connections (including possibly left-hand
ones!) that can loosen when you tighten the tank fitting, presenting the
grave hazard of a tank turning into a rocket.
As of this date "ASTM F1750-05" gets zero hits on Google groups, and
only two pages of hits on the Web itself most of which are just selling
the standard document, and none of which describe parts you can buy. So
there isn't much practical recognition of this standard, although you'll
find lots of paintball shops online selling paintball tanks, fittings
and adapters erroneously claiming to be "CGA 320". More confusion
because ASTM F1750-05 is based on CGA 320.
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Date: 27 Sep 2006 19:27:26
From: Lefty Skywalker
Subject: Re: paintball tank for co2 source
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Richard J Kinch wrote:
> Paintball tanks are *not* CGA-320. I don't know that they are *any* CGA
> standard fitting, at least not the ones I am familiar with (see:
> http://www.asge-online.com/pdf/CGAConnections.pdf for some CGA fitting
> diagrams, none of which match what's on paintball tanks). Paintball
> tanks seal with an O-ring around the circumference, and incorporate a
> pin valve.
I see what you mean. What I'm seeing on the paintball tanks seems
pretty stupid. Looks like it will drag the o-ring across the threads
every time you put it together. Bad news for a seal that sees a lot of
disassembly.
If I had to design this stuff I'd most likely use SAE straight thread
ports. I don't really trust face seals to line up.
> I have seen this called an ASA fitting by paintball people,
> but this doesn't seem to be a genuine standard.
Looking around, ASA refers to a specific part of the gun, the "air
source adapter", and not to *the* ASA. The tank screws into the ASA,
which feeds the regulator. So you can see how "ASA fitting" would enter
the parlance.
--
Daniel O. Miller
"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the
fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true
science. Whosoever does not know it and can no longer marvel, is as good
as dead, and his eyes are dimmed." - Albert Einstein
WWYD? (-o-) <* > Genesis 49:17
Real email address: darth dot lefty at golf mike able india lima.
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Date: 28 Sep 2006 09:01:30
From: Dan Logcher
Subject: Re: paintball tank for co2 source
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Lefty Skywalker wrote:
> Richard J Kinch wrote:
>
>> Paintball tanks are *not* CGA-320. I don't know that they are *any*
>> CGA standard fitting, at least not the ones I am familiar with (see:
>> http://www.asge-online.com/pdf/CGAConnections.pdf for some CGA fitting
>> diagrams, none of which match what's on paintball tanks). Paintball
>> tanks seal with an O-ring around the circumference, and incorporate a
>> pin valve.
>
>
> I see what you mean. What I'm seeing on the paintball tanks seems
> pretty stupid. Looks like it will drag the o-ring across the threads
> every time you put it together. Bad news for a seal that sees a lot of
> disassembly.
Yes, I noted that as well when I used to play. The best way to fix that
is to use a remote with an on/off and QD on the marker. That way you do
not need to remove the tank from the adaptor, just shutoff and disconnect
the hose.
> Looking around, ASA refers to a specific part of the gun, the "air
> source adapter", and not to *the* ASA. The tank screws into the ASA,
> which feeds the regulator. So you can see how "ASA fitting" would enter
> the parlance.
Wouldn't you prefer a fill adaptor with on/off so you don't have to keep
unscrewing the tank and possibly damaging the o-ring?
--
Dan
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Date: 28 Sep 2006 12:28:27
From: satellite_chris
Subject: Re: paintball tank for co2 source
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I am trying to setup a more portable solution. I currently have a 20lb
tank, and 2 5lb tanks that are always taking care of some beer. I
would like something smaller that I can use with my portable 5 gallon
kegs. The paintball canisters seems nice and small and I would not
have to worry about them being close to empty because I would use them
for a single keg at a time by buying the appropriate size to pump a
paritcular size keg. I am always seeming to pray with my 5lb tanks
that they have enough gas. Its a pain to get them filled by me and its
too expensive to have them filled when they still had plenty left in
the tank.
John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> On 25 Sep 2006 20:30:19 -0700, <satellite_chris@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Anyone have any suggestion on the cheapest way to accomplish this?
>
> What are you trying to accomplish? Do you want to use a paintball tank
> for serving your beer, or are you trying to figure out a way of
> refilling your paintball tank from your beer tank?
>
>
> John.
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