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Date: 27 Jul 2006 13:59:40
From: John Bleichert
Subject: nuts in beer
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Hello All
Thinking of trying to make a nut beer (hazelnut brown) but I'm not
interested in using nut extracts. I see a lot of references to
extracts but only one recipe (on the internet) shows nuts added to the
boil.
I'd like to roast some myself (no oil!), crack them and then I
suppose either add them at the end of the boil or maybe in
secondary. Sound good? Anyone done anything like this?
Thanks - JB
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 27 Jul 2006 08:58:28
From: Randal
Subject: Re: nuts in beer
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John Bleichert wrote:
> Hello All
>
> Thinking of trying to make a nut beer (hazelnut brown) but I'm not
> interested in using nut extracts. I see a lot of references to
> extracts but only one recipe (on the internet) shows nuts added to the
> boil.
>
A local brewery (Bristol) uses roasted pinon nuts to great effect in
their Pinon Nut Brown Ale.
_Randal
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Date: 27 Jul 2006 16:45:05
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: nuts in beer
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Randal <frandalc@swbell.net > wrote:
>
> John Bleichert wrote:
>> Hello All
>>
>> Thinking of trying to make a nut beer (hazelnut brown) but I'm not
>> interested in using nut extracts. I see a lot of references to
>> extracts but only one recipe (on the internet) shows nuts added to the
>> boil.
>>
>
> A local brewery (Bristol) uses roasted pinon nuts to great effect in
> their Pinon Nut Brown Ale.
>
> _Randal
>
mmmm pine nuts. Love 'em. If they work in beer, hazelnuts (filberts)
should work fine. I think I'm going to assemble a recipe this
weekend......
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 27 Jul 2006 07:29:36
From: John Krehbiel
Subject: Re: nuts in beer
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John Bleichert wrote:
> I'd like to roast some myself (no oil!),
I'm not totally sure, but I'd be willing to bet they have a fair amount
of oil by themselves. Not sure if that oil will mess it up though.
Let us know how it turns out. I'd like to try the same myself.
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Date: 27 Jul 2006 16:11:48
From: Sean
Subject: Re: nuts in beer
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John Bleichert wrote:
> I think maybe for yucks this weekend I'll boil some hazelnuts (or
> maybe macadamias) and see if they release any oil and how
> much. There's got to be a way of testing this w/o jeopardizing 5
> gallons of wort...
>
> Oh well, it's just the head, not the carbonation :-)
>
>
I found this:
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/foods/nuts/
and there is a link to the USDA, too.
As a pro cook, we use nut oils all the time for distinct
flavors in vinaigrettes, etc. They are quite perishable and prone to
oxidation (read rancid/bitter). This is one reason that many recipes
encourage hand whisking over the use of a blender for emulsions. I'd
never discourage experimentation in brewing (out loud, at least). One
to 1.5 gallon batches are perfect for this sort of thing. Please keep
us informed.
Best of luck,
Sean
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Date: 28 Jul 2006 13:24:29
From: Joel
Subject: Re: nuts in beer
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Sean <s.mcnerney@insightbb.com > wrote:
>As a pro cook, we use nut oils all the time for distinct
>flavors in vinaigrettes, etc. They are quite perishable and prone to
>oxidation (read rancid/bitter). This is one reason that many recipes
>encourage hand whisking over the use of a blender for emulsions. I'd
>never discourage experimentation in brewing (out loud, at least). One
>to 1.5 gallon batches are perfect for this sort of thing. Please keep
>us informed.
My mother-in-law has pecan trees in her backyard,
so occasionally we end up with a bunch of nuts. Even
something as tasty as pecan pie gets rather old after
awhile, so one time I tried steeping some chopped
pecans in a couple quarts of mead. Unfortunately,
what seemed to get extracted was all the bitterness
and none of the sweet nut flavor. It tasted like
harsh, bitter, tannic dirt.
--
Joel Plutchak "Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and
plutchak@[...] sometimes I think we're not. In either case the idea
is quite staggering." - Arthur C. Clarke
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Date: 28 Jul 2006 21:21:44
From: Scott Sellers
Subject: Re: nuts in beer
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Joel <plutchak@see.headers >:
>Sean <s.mcnerney@insightbb.com> wrote:
>>As a pro cook, we use nut oils all the time for distinct
>>flavors in vinaigrettes, etc. They are quite perishable and
>>prone to oxidation (read rancid/bitter). This is one reason
>>that many recipes encourage hand whisking over the use of a
>>blender for emulsions. I'd never discourage experimentation in
>>brewing (out loud, at least). One to 1.5 gallon batches are
>>perfect for this sort of thing. Please keep us informed.
> My mother-in-law has pecan trees in her backyard,
>so occasionally we end up with a bunch of nuts. Even something
>as tasty as pecan pie gets rather old after awhile, so one time
>I tried steeping some chopped pecans in a couple quarts of mead.
>Unfortunately, what seemed to get extracted was all the
>bitterness and none of the sweet nut flavor. It tasted like
>harsh, bitter, tannic dirt.
Just theorizing, but the bitterness might have come from the
husks. The OP might want to blanch the hazelnuts. I've done
this with almonds before (not for brewing). It's easy.
Scott S
--
Scott Sellers
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Date: 28 Jul 2006 12:33:32
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: nuts in beer
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Sean <s.mcnerney@insightbb.com > wrote:
>
> John Bleichert wrote:
>
>
>> I think maybe for yucks this weekend I'll boil some hazelnuts (or
>> maybe macadamias) and see if they release any oil and how
>> much. There's got to be a way of testing this w/o jeopardizing 5
>> gallons of wort...
>>
>> Oh well, it's just the head, not the carbonation :-)
>>
>>
>
> I found this:
> http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/foods/nuts/
>
> and there is a link to the USDA, too.
>
> As a pro cook, we use nut oils all the time for distinct
> flavors in vinaigrettes, etc. They are quite perishable and prone to
> oxidation (read rancid/bitter). This is one reason that many recipes
> encourage hand whisking over the use of a blender for emulsions. I'd
> never discourage experimentation in brewing (out loud, at least). One
> to 1.5 gallon batches are perfect for this sort of thing. Please keep
> us informed.
>
>
> Best of luck,
>
> Sean
>
Cool thanks Sean. I've cooked with nut oils a lot and they are really
perishable. I'd use nut exracts but they're mostly sugar. I want to
try it with the real thing.
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 27 Jul 2006 14:01:27
From: waseemc
Subject: Re: nuts in beer
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not sure if you're doing all grain or extract but...
I've seen an extract recipe on the internet a few months back with a
variety of nuts crushed and used with specialty grains in the steep.
I wanted to make it but couldn't find the recipe again when I tried to
find it.
Has anyone tried nuts in a steep?
John Bleichert wrote:
> Hello All
>
> Thinking of trying to make a nut beer (hazelnut brown) but I'm not
> interested in using nut extracts. I see a lot of references to
> extracts but only one recipe (on the internet) shows nuts added to the
> boil.
>
> I'd like to roast some myself (no oil!), crack them and then I
> suppose either add them at the end of the boil or maybe in
> secondary. Sound good? Anyone done anything like this?
>
> Thanks - JB
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
> The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 28 Jul 2006 12:32:16
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: nuts in beer
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waseemc <waseemc@hotmail.com > wrote:
> not sure if you're doing all grain or extract but...
>
> I've seen an extract recipe on the internet a few months back with a
> variety of nuts crushed and used with specialty grains in the steep.
> I wanted to make it but couldn't find the recipe again when I tried to
> find it.
> Has anyone tried nuts in a steep?
>
All-grain. I've pondered putting them in the mash, but I don't think
they belong there. No starches to convert, and the oils might effect
the conversion. I'm thinking end of boil and maybe secondary, but heck
maybe I'll stuff some in the mash one day and check. If it was a
mini-mash I'd be more inclined to do so.
>
> John Bleichert wrote:
>> Hello All
>>
>> Thinking of trying to make a nut beer (hazelnut brown) but I'm not
>> interested in using nut extracts. I see a lot of references to
>> extracts but only one recipe (on the internet) shows nuts added to the
>> boil.
>>
>> I'd like to roast some myself (no oil!), crack them and then I
>> suppose either add them at the end of the boil or maybe in
>> secondary. Sound good? Anyone done anything like this?
>>
>> Thanks - JB
>>
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------
>> John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
>> The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
>
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 27 Jul 2006 13:37:21
From: Jerry Z
Subject: Re: nuts in beer
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John Bleichert wrote:
> Hello All
>
> Thinking of trying to make a nut beer (hazelnut brown) but I'm not
> interested in using nut extracts.
--SNIP--
> Sound good? Anyone done anything like this?
>
> Thanks - JB
Heck yeah, it sounds good. There's a brewpub near my home where they
make a very pleasant English brown ale -- it's not billed as a nut
brown, just a brown (think Newcastle, not Samuel Smith's). But they are
also licensed to sell liquor there, and on occasion, I've had them pour
me a pint of brown ale with a shot of hazlenut liqueur on the side.
Pouring the shot into the beer results in a beverage with nothing short
of an exquisite taste. Walnut liqueur (Nocino) is also delicious in a
brown ale.
If you come up with a good way of adding the hazlenut flavor to your
wort without using extracts, I'd like to hear about it. Especially if
you can do it without the oils in the hazlenuts killing your foam
production/stability.
If you find that adding nuts to your boil or secondary kills the head,
you can make hazlenut liqueur at home using vodka or grain alcohol.
Googling "hazlenut liqueur" will yield simple recipes.
Keep us informed about the results. I'm curious to learn if you can
make it work as a mash, boil or secondary ingredient.
Jerry
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Date: 27 Jul 2006 20:58:13
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: nuts in beer
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Jerry Z <jerryzeidler@yahoo.com > wrote:
>
> John Bleichert wrote:
>> Hello All
>>
>> Thinking of trying to make a nut beer (hazelnut brown) but I'm not
>> interested in using nut extracts.
> --SNIP--
>> Sound good? Anyone done anything like this?
>>
>> Thanks - JB
>
> Heck yeah, it sounds good. There's a brewpub near my home where they
> make a very pleasant English brown ale -- it's not billed as a nut
> brown, just a brown (think Newcastle, not Samuel Smith's). But they are
> also licensed to sell liquor there, and on occasion, I've had them pour
> me a pint of brown ale with a shot of hazlenut liqueur on the side.
> Pouring the shot into the beer results in a beverage with nothing short
> of an exquisite taste. Walnut liqueur (Nocino) is also delicious in a
> brown ale.
>
> If you come up with a good way of adding the hazlenut flavor to your
> wort without using extracts, I'd like to hear about it. Especially if
> you can do it without the oils in the hazlenuts killing your foam
> production/stability.
>
> If you find that adding nuts to your boil or secondary kills the head,
> you can make hazlenut liqueur at home using vodka or grain alcohol.
> Googling "hazlenut liqueur" will yield simple recipes.
>
> Keep us informed about the results. I'm curious to learn if you can
> make it work as a mash, boil or secondary ingredient.
>
> Jerry
>
I think maybe for yucks this weekend I'll boil some hazelnuts (or
maybe macadamias) and see if they release any oil and how
much. There's got to be a way of testing this w/o jeopardizing 5
gallons of wort...
Oh well, it's just the head, not the carbonation :-)
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
|
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Date: 28 Jul 2006 06:59:41
From:
Subject: Re: nuts in beer
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John Bleichert wrote:
> Sean <s.mcnerney@insightbb.com> wrote:
> >
> > John Bleichert wrote:
> >
> >
> >> I think maybe for yucks this weekend I'll boil some hazelnuts (or
> >> maybe macadamias) and see if they release any oil and how
> >> much. There's got to be a way of testing this w/o jeopardizing 5
> >> gallons of wort...
> >>
> >> Oh well, it's just the head, not the carbonation :-)
> >>
> >>
> >
> > I found this:
> > http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/foods/nuts/
> >
> > and there is a link to the USDA, too.
> >
> > As a pro cook, we use nut oils all the time for distinct
> > flavors in vinaigrettes, etc. They are quite perishable and prone to
> > oxidation (read rancid/bitter). This is one reason that many recipes
> > encourage hand whisking over the use of a blender for emulsions. I'd
> > never discourage experimentation in brewing (out loud, at least). One
> > to 1.5 gallon batches are perfect for this sort of thing. Please keep
> > us informed.
> >
> >
> > Best of luck,
> >
> > Sean
> >
>
> Cool thanks Sean. I've cooked with nut oils a lot and they are really
> perishable. I'd use nut exracts but they're mostly sugar. I want to
> try it with the real thing.
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
> The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
Several years ago I met a man at an arts and crafts show. He was
selling nut oils and nut meals. He said he had several acres of land
covered with nut trees and he made the oils and meals in his garage and
sold them for cash at shows. He gave small samples to entice people to
buy. The oils tasted like the nuts on steroids sort of. Several were
overpowering in my opinion. I couldn't imagine it taking much of the
hazelnut or pecan oil to overpower anything it was used in. The nut
meals were distinctly flavored, but uniformly bland. Not just starchy
like flour, but they only had a hint of the nuts flavor. From that
experience I'm assuming that most of the flavor is concentrated in the
oils.
My biggest concern would be that, if my experience that the oils hold
almost all of the taste is correct, you may not get much flavor or
aroma from the nuts without some alcohol for the oils to dissolve in
when mashing/steeping. You may want to brew and ferment then rack onto
the crushed nuts in secondary where the alcohol in the beer can help
make the oils soluble or at least let the aromatics disolve in the beer
and then rack and leave the oils in the secondary.
Regardless, it sounds like a neat experiment. Let us know what you try
and how it turns out.
Bryan
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Date: 28 Jul 2006 14:29:23
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: nuts in beer
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yournotauser@gmail.com wrote:
>
> John Bleichert wrote:
>> Sean <s.mcnerney@insightbb.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > John Bleichert wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >> I think maybe for yucks this weekend I'll boil some hazelnuts (or
>> >> maybe macadamias) and see if they release any oil and how
>> >> much. There's got to be a way of testing this w/o jeopardizing 5
>> >> gallons of wort...
>> >>
>> >> Oh well, it's just the head, not the carbonation :-)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > I found this:
>> > http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/foods/nuts/
>> >
>> > and there is a link to the USDA, too.
>> >
>> > As a pro cook, we use nut oils all the time for distinct
>> > flavors in vinaigrettes, etc. They are quite perishable and prone to
>> > oxidation (read rancid/bitter). This is one reason that many recipes
>> > encourage hand whisking over the use of a blender for emulsions. I'd
>> > never discourage experimentation in brewing (out loud, at least). One
>> > to 1.5 gallon batches are perfect for this sort of thing. Please keep
>> > us informed.
>> >
>> >
>> > Best of luck,
>> >
>> > Sean
>> >
>>
>> Cool thanks Sean. I've cooked with nut oils a lot and they are really
>> perishable. I'd use nut exracts but they're mostly sugar. I want to
>> try it with the real thing.
>>
>>
>
> Several years ago I met a man at an arts and crafts show. He was
> selling nut oils and nut meals. He said he had several acres of land
> covered with nut trees and he made the oils and meals in his garage and
> sold them for cash at shows. He gave small samples to entice people to
> buy. The oils tasted like the nuts on steroids sort of. Several were
> overpowering in my opinion. I couldn't imagine it taking much of the
> hazelnut or pecan oil to overpower anything it was used in. The nut
> meals were distinctly flavored, but uniformly bland. Not just starchy
> like flour, but they only had a hint of the nuts flavor. From that
> experience I'm assuming that most of the flavor is concentrated in the
> oils.
>
> My biggest concern would be that, if my experience that the oils hold
> almost all of the taste is correct, you may not get much flavor or
> aroma from the nuts without some alcohol for the oils to dissolve in
> when mashing/steeping. You may want to brew and ferment then rack onto
> the crushed nuts in secondary where the alcohol in the beer can help
> make the oils soluble or at least let the aromatics disolve in the beer
> and then rack and leave the oils in the secondary.
>
That's what Ive been thinking - rack onto the nuts with the hops in
secondary (if there are any hops). Alcohol may/will actually make the
oils soluble? Really? I'm good in physics but what I know about
chemistry would bounce around in a thimble.
Yes - nut oils are very very concentrated.
> Regardless, it sounds like a neat experiment. Let us know what you try
> and how it turns out.
>
> Bryan
>
I will. I'm thinking of making a couple smaller test batches before
trying it at 5 gallons.
Thanks - JB
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 28 Jul 2006 11:32:30
From:
Subject: Re: nuts in beer
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John Bleichert wrote:
> yournotauser@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> That's what Ive been thinking - rack onto the nuts with the hops in
> secondary (if there are any hops). Alcohol may/will actually make the
> oils soluble? Really? I'm good in physics but what I know about
> chemistry would bounce around in a thimble.
>
Alcohol won't get the really long chain fats and waxes disolved, but it
is the common solvent for the short chain essential oils that give
items a lot of their taste and aroma. The more common ways of getting
the flavors and aromas out involve high temp steam processes that I
doubt can be reproduced in a home kitchen.
Bryan
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Date: 31 Jul 2006 06:26:41
From: Jeff
Subject: Re: nuts in beer
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John Bleichert wrote:
> Hello All
>
> Thinking of trying to make a nut beer (hazelnut brown) but I'm not
> interested in using nut extracts. I see a lot of references to
> extracts but only one recipe (on the internet) shows nuts added to the
> boil.
>
> I'd like to roast some myself (no oil!), crack them and then I
> suppose either add them at the end of the boil or maybe in
> secondary. Sound good? Anyone done anything like this?
I'm not sure how you'd extract the nut oil, but the other day I was
reading about the Coca-Cola formula on the Wiki website and came across
an interesting way to use oil extracts. They mix the oils with alcohol
and then shake it up. Then add some water, and let it sit for 24 hours
and then extract the clear layer from it (probably with a syringe).
You'll find it within "recipe 3" at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca-Cola_formula
I have no idea if this is a real way to extract flavors from oils
without picking up the actual oils, but I was going to give it a try
someday when I'm making sodas.
--Jeff
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