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Date: 13 Sep 2006 13:09:00
From: Scott Lindner
Subject: no sparge mashing
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The other day I was talking to a brewer that does no sparge mashes. My
initial thought the guy was a lazy brewer and didn't mind spending the $$$
to not have to wait for the time to vorfloff and sparging. Then he said it
makes the beer maltier. So I checked on it and sure enough I see the
*theory* is it makes the brew maltier due to less tannins. I haven't found
any credible references, but I do believe they must be some discernable
differences.
I have a few thoughts on this, help me out and throw in your own thoughts.
I'd like to learn more about it.
1) By not doing the vorloff, wouldn't you run the risk of increasing the
tannins extracted because of all of the bits of husks making it into the
kettle? Maybe negligible compared to the sparge tannin extraction?
2) Does sparging necessarily extract an appreciable amount of tannins if
you're a careful or experienced brewer?
3) Assuming it does make the beer maltier, wouldn't you simple need to kick
in more hops to balance the beer the way you intend? Or maybe do the vice
and use less hops to get the same target balance you'd get from the no
sparge brew? To me all this does is makes you compensate with more hops for
the balance you are looking for. Maybe the key is that no sparging makes
for the same balance, but with less hops to hit the balance you're looking
for?
That's all that's on my brain on this. I'm curious to hear what people have
to say about it.
Cheers,
Scott
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Date: 13 Sep 2006 14:19:49
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: no sparge mashing
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Scott Lindner wrote:
> The other day I was talking to a brewer that does no sparge mashes. My
> initial thought the guy was a lazy brewer and didn't mind spending the $$$
> to not have to wait for the time to vorfloff and sparging. Then he said it
> makes the beer maltier. So I checked on it and sure enough I see the
> *theory* is it makes the brew maltier due to less tannins. I haven't found
> any credible references, but I do believe they must be some discernable
> differences.
>
> I have a few thoughts on this, help me out and throw in your own thoughts.
> I'd like to learn more about it.
>
> 1) By not doing the vorloff, wouldn't you run the risk of increasing the
> tannins extracted because of all of the bits of husks making it into the
> kettle? Maybe negligible compared to the sparge tannin extraction?
I think you still need to do the vorlauf. I'm not aware that this step
should be omitted. (I always do it.)
>
> 2) Does sparging necessarily extract an appreciable amount of tannins if
> you're a careful or experienced brewer?
That would be the crux of the argument for and against. My guess is that
any sparging extracts tannins -- but at what point it makes a
discernable difference is really the issue. (For the record -- I don't
know.)
>
> 3) Assuming it does make the beer maltier, wouldn't you simple need to kick
> in more hops to balance the beer the way you intend? Or maybe do the vice
> and use less hops to get the same target balance you'd get from the no
> sparge brew? To me all this does is makes you compensate with more hops for
> the balance you are looking for. Maybe the key is that no sparging makes
> for the same balance, but with less hops to hit the balance you're looking
> for?
I think you're confusing "maltier" and "sweeter" -- not really the same
thing at all.
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
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Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!
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Date: 13 Sep 2006 13:24:57
From: Scott Lindner
Subject: Re: no sparge mashing
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> I think you're confusing "maltier" and "sweeter" -- not really the same
> thing at all.
Indeed I am. Which leads me to the question of how a no sparge could
possibly make the beer maltier, and not simply sweeter?
Hmm.. I think you guys already nailed it for me. I feel confident you are
dead on in your response to #2. Which would be another hot debate, I'm
sure. I can envision RIMS/HERMS vs simple infusion mash wars brewing along
the side lines.
Thanks for the quick response guys. Very informative.
Scott
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Date: 13 Sep 2006 19:19:04
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: no sparge mashing
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On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 13:09:00 -0600, <nospam@noemail.com > wrote:
> The other day I was talking to a brewer that does no sparge mashes. My
> initial thought the guy was a lazy brewer and didn't mind spending the $$$
> to not have to wait for the time to vorfloff and sparging. Then he said it
> makes the beer maltier. So I checked on it and sure enough I see the
> *theory* is it makes the brew maltier due to less tannins. I haven't found
> any credible references, but I do believe they must be some discernable
> differences.
>
> I have a few thoughts on this, help me out and throw in your own thoughts.
> I'd like to learn more about it.
>
> 1) By not doing the vorloff, wouldn't you run the risk of increasing the
> tannins extracted because of all of the bits of husks making it into the
> kettle? Maybe negligible compared to the sparge tannin extraction?
I assume you would still vorlauf.
> 2) Does sparging necessarily extract an appreciable amount of tannins if
> you're a careful or experienced brewer?
I don't think so.
> 3) Assuming it does make the beer maltier, wouldn't you simple need to kick
> in more hops to balance the beer the way you intend? Or maybe do the vice
> and use less hops to get the same target balance you'd get from the no
> sparge brew? To me all this does is makes you compensate with more hops for
> the balance you are looking for. Maybe the key is that no sparging makes
> for the same balance, but with less hops to hit the balance you're looking
> for?
>
> That's all that's on my brain on this. I'm curious to hear what people have
> to say about it.
I'm not sure it makes a lot of sense to me either. Like you, all I've ever
seen is somebody theorizing on it. I can't say I've seen any explanation
that clearly says why it would make for a maltier beer. Assuming that you
dilute the no sparge down to the identical starting gravity as a regular
sparge... I'm not sure what real differences there would be. Possibly less
tannins, but you don't really get significant tannins anyway unless you're
oversparging the regular version.
I chalk it up to subjective comparisons with *maybe* very small differences,
kind of in the same boat as decion mashes. Decions *theoretically*
make for a maltier beer as well. Some people will swear that they can
taste a difference, but many others do not.
IMO, it's one of those "do it if you want to" things. Don't let what someone
else says hold more weight than your own experience with it.
John.
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Date: 13 Sep 2006 13:16:46
From: Scott Lindner
Subject: Re: no sparge mashing
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> 3) Assuming it does make the beer maltier, wouldn't you simple need to
> kick in more hops to balance the beer the way you intend? Or maybe do the
> vice and use less hops to get the same target balance you'd get from the
> no sparge brew? To me all this does is makes you compensate with more
> hops for the balance you are looking for. Maybe the key is that no
> sparging makes for the same balance, but with less hops to hit the balance
> you're looking for?
Err.. I mean more hops to hit the target balance.
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