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Date: 17 Jul 2006 13:03:34
From: John Bleichert
Subject: malts for a Bohemian-style pilsner
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Hello All
( gearing up for my first pilsner )
After trawling the archives, searchin the web and readin Daniels'
section on pilsners, I seem to have 2 routes to follow. It seems that
if I do an infusion mash (with an added protein rest) that I should
add some crystal and some CaraPils to the grist. However, if I have a
whack at a decion mash all I will need in the grist is the pilsner
malt.
Does this sound about right? I think my first time through I'm going
to use the first option, but I'm just curious. There's conflicting
info everywhere.
Just beginning my water analysis. My local water is very hard, I may
make a pilsner with bottled water.
Thanks - JB
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 17 Jul 2006 09:28:55
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: malts for a Bohemian-style pilsner
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John Bleichert wrote:
>
> Hello All
>
> ( gearing up for my first pilsner )
>
> After trawling the archives, searchin the web and readin Daniels'
> section on pilsners, I seem to have 2 routes to follow. It seems that
> if I do an infusion mash (with an added protein rest) that I should
> add some crystal and some CaraPils to the grist. However, if I have a
> whack at a decion mash all I will need in the grist is the pilsner
> malt.
Well, not really....I'd leave out the crystal no matter what. I doubt
you need to hassle with a protein rest. Just because you're using pils
malt is not a good reason to do one! See what the S/T protein ratio of
the malt is, and let that decide for you!
> Does this sound about right? I think my first time through I'm going
> to use the first option, but I'm just curious. There's conflicting
> info everywhere.
Just do what I say and you'll be fine! :)
> Just beginning my water analysis. My local water is very hard, I may
> make a pilsner with bottled water.
You can easily make a pils with hard water, but you need to make a
German pils, not a Bopils.
---------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 17 Jul 2006 18:02:15
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: malts for a Bohemian-style pilsner
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Denny Conn <denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us > wrote:
> John Bleichert wrote:
>>
>> Hello All
>>
>> ( gearing up for my first pilsner )
>>
>> After trawling the archives, searchin the web and readin Daniels'
>> section on pilsners, I seem to have 2 routes to follow. It seems that
>> if I do an infusion mash (with an added protein rest) that I should
>> add some crystal and some CaraPils to the grist. However, if I have a
>> whack at a decion mash all I will need in the grist is the pilsner
>> malt.
>
> Well, not really....I'd leave out the crystal no matter what. I doubt
> you need to hassle with a protein rest. Just because you're using pils
> malt is not a good reason to do one! See what the S/T protein ratio of
> the malt is, and let that decide for you!
>
Can you pls elaborate on that? Are the 2 protein values provided here
what you are referring to?
http://www.durst-malz.com/pilsnermalt.html
>> Does this sound about right? I think my first time through I'm going
>> to use the first option, but I'm just curious. There's conflicting
>> info everywhere.
>
> Just do what I say and you'll be fine! :)
>
>> Just beginning my water analysis. My local water is very hard, I may
>> make a pilsner with bottled water.
>
> You can easily make a pils with hard water, but you need to make a
> German pils, not a Bopils.
>
> ---------->Denny
A Dortmunder Export is definitely on my radar. I'm going to have to
try a coupla German pils beers in the near future and see what I
think.
I need to get an analysis of my local water and decide what to do
about it. I'd like to just try to make a pilsner with my local water
and see how it comes out, although depending on the mineral content I
realize the hop schedule may have to be adjusted.
Thanks - JB
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 17 Jul 2006 11:16:29
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: malts for a Bohemian-style pilsner
|
John Bleichert wrote:
> Can you pls elaborate on that? Are the 2 protein values provided here
> what you are referring to?
>
> http://www.durst-malz.com/pilsnermalt.html
See where it says "Protein solution degree 39 - 47%"? That's what
you're looking for. I'll double check the numbers, but IIRC, Palmer
says that an S/T ratio of 36-40 needs a protein rest, 40-44 *may*
benefit from one, and above 44 it could be detrimeantla and definitely
isn't needed. I try to get a lot analysis for every bag of malt I use
and base my mash schedule decisions on the analysis for that malt.
Barring that, I'll do a single infusion and then determine if I need to
do more in the future.
>
> >> Does this sound about right? I think my first time through I'm going
> >> to use the first option, but I'm just curious. There's conflicting
> >> info everywhere.
> >
> > Just do what I say and you'll be fine! :)
> >
> >> Just beginning my water analysis. My local water is very hard, I may
> >> make a pilsner with bottled water.
> >
> > You can easily make a pils with hard water, but you need to make a
> > German pils, not a Bopils.
> >
> > ---------->Denny
>
> A Dortmunder Export is definitely on my radar. I'm going to have to
> try a coupla German pils beers in the near future and see what I
> think.
>
> I need to get an analysis of my local water and decide what to do
> about it. I'd like to just try to make a pilsner with my local water
> and see how it comes out, although depending on the mineral content I
> realize the hop schedule may have to be adjusted.
Go to www.wardlab.com and get test W-6 for $15. You'll get all the
water info you need for brewing.
------------ >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 17 Jul 2006 19:02:19
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: malts for a Bohemian-style pilsner
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Denny Conn <denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us > wrote:
> John Bleichert wrote:
>
>> Can you pls elaborate on that? Are the 2 protein values provided here
>> what you are referring to?
>>
>> http://www.durst-malz.com/pilsnermalt.html
>
> See where it says "Protein solution degree 39 - 47%"? That's what
> you're looking for. I'll double check the numbers, but IIRC, Palmer
> says that an S/T ratio of 36-40 needs a protein rest, 40-44 *may*
> benefit from one, and above 44 it could be detrimeantla and definitely
> isn't needed. I try to get a lot analysis for every bag of malt I use
> and base my mash schedule decisions on the analysis for that malt.
> Barring that, I'll do a single infusion and then determine if I need to
> do more in the future.
>>
Yes, I plan on doing a single-infusion the first time now. I guess I'll drop the protein rest idea, although I will apply it next time I make my rye pale ale with flaked rye.
http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter14-4.html
Sheesh. Where else but r.c.b could one attempt to make their procedure
more robust and get shot down in flames for it?
;-)
>> I need to get an analysis of my local water and decide what to do
>> about it. I'd like to just try to make a pilsner with my local water
>> and see how it comes out, although depending on the mineral content I
>> realize the hop schedule may have to be adjusted.
>
> Go to www.wardlab.com and get test W-6 for $15. You'll get all the
> water info you need for brewing.
>
Good idea! Thanks for the link!
JB
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 17 Jul 2006 12:26:04
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: malts for a Bohemian-style pilsner
|
John Bleichert wrote:
>
> Yes, I plan on doing a single-infusion the first time now. I guess I'll drop the protein rest idea, although I will apply it next time I make my rye pale ale with flaked rye.
>
> http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter14-4.html
>
> Sheesh. Where else but r.c.b could one attempt to make their procedure
> more robust and get shot down in flames for it?
>
> ;-)
I got NOTHING against robust...it's unnecessary work I despise!
> >> I need to get an analysis of my local water and decide what to do
> >> about it. I'd like to just try to make a pilsner with my local water
> >> and see how it comes out, although depending on the mineral content I
> >> realize the hop schedule may have to be adjusted.
> >
> > Go to www.wardlab.com and get test W-6 for $15. You'll get all the
> > water info you need for brewing.
> >
>
> Good idea! Thanks for the link!
My pleasure sir! Best of luck!
---------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 17 Jul 2006 07:57:26
From: neal
Subject: Re: malts for a Bohemian-style pilsner
|
>
> Just beginning my water analysis. My local water is very hard, I may
> make a pilsner with bottled water.
There is a style called Dortmund Export that is basically a
north-german pilsener made with hard water. The hard water accentuates
the hop flavors, and it typically a percentatge point or so stronger in
alcohol. Other than using German hops instead of Czech, brew it like a
pilsener.
I've done pils with both decion and infusion. Decion is nice
but a giant day-killer. I'd agree that a bit of melatonian malt will
get you some of the elments of maltiness enahancement that decion
gives.
This czech beer is currently lagering for me:
Czech Moravian Kellerbier
http://www.brewcommune.com/phpBB/weblog_entry.php?e=142
Good luck.
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Date: 17 Jul 2006 15:29:27
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: malts for a Bohemian-style pilsner
|
neal <nrichter@gmail.com > wrote:
>
>>
>> Just beginning my water analysis. My local water is very hard, I may
>> make a pilsner with bottled water.
>
> There is a style called Dortmund Export that is basically a
> north-german pilsener made with hard water. The hard water accentuates
> the hop flavors, and it typically a percentatge point or so stronger in
> alcohol. Other than using German hops instead of Czech, brew it like a
> pilsener.
>
> I've done pils with both decion and infusion. Decion is nice
> but a giant day-killer. I'd agree that a bit of melatonian malt will
> get you some of the elments of maltiness enahancement that decion
> gives.
>
> This czech beer is currently lagering for me:
>
> Czech Moravian Kellerbier
> http://www.brewcommune.com/phpBB/weblog_entry.php?e=142
>
> Good luck.
>
Thanks! Yep - I read about Dortmund Export in Designing Great beers -
it's definitely on my radar.
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 17 Jul 2006 13:57:09
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: malts for a Bohemian-style pilsner
|
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:03:34 GMT, <syborg@earthlink.net > wrote:
> Hello All
>
> ( gearing up for my first pilsner )
>
> After trawling the archives, searchin the web and readin Daniels'
> section on pilsners, I seem to have 2 routes to follow. It seems that
> if I do an infusion mash (with an added protein rest) that I should
Are you sure you need a protein rest?
> add some crystal and some CaraPils to the grist. However, if I have a
> whack at a decion mash all I will need in the grist is the pilsner
> malt.
Most people I've heard talk about the difference between decion and
non-decion say that the difference is pretty subtle. Assuming that's
true (it is in my own experience), I have a hard time believing that it
will eliminate the need for Crystal and CaraPils.
IMO, infusion mash of pilsner, crystal, and Carapils will give you a different
beer than a decion of just pilsner. Not to say that either is "wrong",
but I don't think they're going to be equivalent.
> Does this sound about right? I think my first time through I'm going
> to use the first option, but I'm just curious. There's conflicting
> info everywhere.
Pay attention to the time frame that the info your're reading comes from.
The type/quality of ingredients available on a consumer level to homebrewers
has changed a LOT in a relatively short amount of time. Older books are
often making assumptions about your ingredients that are no longer true.
IMO, that's one reason you see a lot of conflicting information (the
necessity of protein rests, for example).
John.
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Date: 17 Jul 2006 14:14:15
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: malts for a Bohemian-style pilsner
|
John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <spam@shagg.net > wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:03:34 GMT, <syborg@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Hello All
>>
>> ( gearing up for my first pilsner )
>>
>> After trawling the archives, searchin the web and readin Daniels'
>> section on pilsners, I seem to have 2 routes to follow. It seems that
>> if I do an infusion mash (with an added protein rest) that I should
>
> Are you sure you need a protein rest?
>
>> add some crystal and some CaraPils to the grist. However, if I have a
>> whack at a decion mash all I will need in the grist is the pilsner
>> malt.
>
> Most people I've heard talk about the difference between decion and
> non-decion say that the difference is pretty subtle. Assuming that's
> true (it is in my own experience), I have a hard time believing that it
> will eliminate the need for Crystal and CaraPils.
>
> IMO, infusion mash of pilsner, crystal, and Carapils will give you a different
> beer than a decion of just pilsner. Not to say that either is "wrong",
> but I don't think they're going to be equivalent.
>
>> Does this sound about right? I think my first time through I'm going
>> to use the first option, but I'm just curious. There's conflicting
>> info everywhere.
>
> Pay attention to the time frame that the info your're reading comes from.
> The type/quality of ingredients available on a consumer level to homebrewers
> has changed a LOT in a relatively short amount of time. Older books are
> often making assumptions about your ingredients that are no longer true.
> IMO, that's one reason you see a lot of conflicting information (the
> necessity of protein rests, for example).
>
>
> John.
Yes, I've learned to check the dates on web homebrewing info :-) The
protein rest is not specific for the pilsner. As I stated earlier,
I've read that I may be able to clear some of this cloudiness by using
a protein rest. Worth a shot, just for curiosity's sake. I'm also
going to start cold-conditioning my ales, just to see what effect it
has.
When I started making all-grain beers, I also started using my own
local water for all of the wort (as opposed to 3 gals of bottled water
used previously to cool the 2 gals of wort in the primary). My water
is hard - I'm thinking maybe somehow this is creating the haze I'm
seeing? The rest at 122F may get me around this, yes? I'd rather
insert a rest in my mash than start putzing around with my water
chemistry.
A decion mash is something I may try on a lazy, frigid January day,
but isn't on my radar any time soon. I guess I'll make one pilsner with
just base malt and then one with crystal/carapils or melanoidin and
compare.
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 17 Jul 2006 14:58:10
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: malts for a Bohemian-style pilsner
|
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:14:15 GMT, <syborg@earthlink.net > wrote:
> I've read that I may be able to clear some of this cloudiness by using
> a protein rest. Worth a shot, just for curiosity's sake. I'm also
> going to start cold-conditioning my ales, just to see what effect it
> has.
In my experience, cold conditioning makes a dramatic improvement to the
clarity. I do it on a lot of my lighter colored beers now. Basically,
I follow my typical schedule for primary/secondary, make sure fermentation
is done, and then drop the temp down to the low 30s as fast as the freezer
will do it. I leave it there for a couple days and then keg/bottle.
The only thing to watch out for is that the yeast will probably go into
thermal shock. This doesn't matter as long as fermentation was complete
before you did the cold conditioning. However, if you waited until after
the cold conditioning to check that your fermentation is complete, the
yeast being in shock may give the illusion that they have stopped
fermenting. This could lead to carbonation problems if they start back
up once the shock wears off.
John.
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Date: 17 Jul 2006 15:05:23
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: malts for a Bohemian-style pilsner
|
John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <spam@shagg.net > wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:14:15 GMT, <syborg@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> I've read that I may be able to clear some of this cloudiness by using
>> a protein rest. Worth a shot, just for curiosity's sake. I'm also
>> going to start cold-conditioning my ales, just to see what effect it
>> has.
>
> In my experience, cold conditioning makes a dramatic improvement to the
> clarity. I do it on a lot of my lighter colored beers now. Basically,
> I follow my typical schedule for primary/secondary, make sure fermentation
> is done, and then drop the temp down to the low 30s as fast as the freezer
> will do it. I leave it there for a couple days and then keg/bottle.
>
A question (which I'll hit again once I start lagering) - do you let
the carboy return to ambient/room temperature before priming and
bottling?
> The only thing to watch out for is that the yeast will probably go into
> thermal shock. This doesn't matter as long as fermentation was complete
> before you did the cold conditioning. However, if you waited until after
> the cold conditioning to check that your fermentation is complete, the
> yeast being in shock may give the illusion that they have stopped
> fermenting. This could lead to carbonation problems if they start back
> up once the shock wears off.
>
>
> John.
I check gravity on a regular basis, hopefully I won't shock
them. Don't need or want any bottle bombs...
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
|
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Date: 17 Jul 2006 11:05:12
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: malts for a Bohemian-style pilsner
|
John Bleichert wrote:
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <spam@shagg.net> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:14:15 GMT, <syborg@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>>I've read that I may be able to clear some of this cloudiness by using
>>>a protein rest. Worth a shot, just for curiosity's sake. I'm also
>>>going to start cold-conditioning my ales, just to see what effect it
>>>has.
>>
>>In my experience, cold conditioning makes a dramatic improvement to the
>>clarity. I do it on a lot of my lighter colored beers now. Basically,
>>I follow my typical schedule for primary/secondary, make sure fermentation
>>is done, and then drop the temp down to the low 30s as fast as the freezer
>>will do it. I leave it there for a couple days and then keg/bottle.
>>
>
>
> A question (which I'll hit again once I start lagering) - do you let
> the carboy return to ambient/room temperature before priming and
> bottling?
>
>
>>The only thing to watch out for is that the yeast will probably go into
>>thermal shock. This doesn't matter as long as fermentation was complete
>>before you did the cold conditioning. However, if you waited until after
>>the cold conditioning to check that your fermentation is complete, the
>>yeast being in shock may give the illusion that they have stopped
>>fermenting. This could lead to carbonation problems if they start back
>>up once the shock wears off.
>
> I check gravity on a regular basis, hopefully I won't shock
> them. Don't need or want any bottle bombs...
I crash cool regularly as well -- but I keg, which means I don't require
any vigor in the yeast for subsequent bottle conditioning.
Crash cooling is probably most effective for dropping yeast. Cold temps
also drop out chill haze, but this takes a good bit longer. Whirlflock
or IM will usually help a great deal with subsequent protein haze. If
you have the ability, you might want to try to figure out the source of
your haze. A couple of quick things to check:
1) Does the haze only form in cold beer? If so, it's probably chill
haze. Since you mention that you still see the haze at warmer temps,
this is probably not the case.
2) Have access to a microscope? If you do, you can check the sample for
yeast. If you have enough yeast to cause haze, they will be readily
visible even at 100x.
3) As far as poor break is concerned, take a sample of cooled wort after
your boil (but before pitching) and put it into a hydro jar. Let it set
for 10 minutes or so. At this point, you should CLEARLY see break
material settling to the bottom of the jar, and the wort above the break
material should be nearly crystal clear. If this is not the case, you're
either getting a really lousy break during the boil or starch haze
(usually a lautering problem).
4) Finally, I've seen haze problems in the past when iron levels get
high in my local water supply (which can happen periodically). There's
not much you can do about this other than to cut or replace your water
with another source.
Hope that helps -- tAfkaks.
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!
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Date: 17 Jul 2006 17:09:48
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: malts for a Bohemian-style pilsner
|
The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty <mikey666@666swampgas.666com > wrote:
> John Bleichert wrote:
>> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <spam@shagg.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:14:15 GMT, <syborg@earthlink.net> wrote:
<massive snip >
>
>
> I crash cool regularly as well -- but I keg, which means I don't require
> any vigor in the yeast for subsequent bottle conditioning.
>
> Crash cooling is probably most effective for dropping yeast. Cold temps
> also drop out chill haze, but this takes a good bit longer. Whirlflock
> or IM will usually help a great deal with subsequent protein haze. If
> you have the ability, you might want to try to figure out the source of
> your haze. A couple of quick things to check:
>
> 1) Does the haze only form in cold beer? If so, it's probably chill
> haze. Since you mention that you still see the haze at warmer temps,
> this is probably not the case.
>
> 2) Have access to a microscope? If you do, you can check the sample for
> yeast. If you have enough yeast to cause haze, they will be readily
> visible even at 100x.
>
> 3) As far as poor break is concerned, take a sample of cooled wort after
> your boil (but before pitching) and put it into a hydro jar. Let it set
> for 10 minutes or so. At this point, you should CLEARLY see break
> material settling to the bottom of the jar, and the wort above the break
> material should be nearly crystal clear. If this is not the case, you're
> either getting a really lousy break during the boil or starch haze
> (usually a lautering problem).
It's definitely not a chill haze, I've seen that before. Thanks for
the suggestions in #3 above, I'll try it next brew. My gut instinct is
that it's a lautering problem, I'm not convinced I've gotten it 100%
correct yet (working in a vacuum, no grain brewers around). Starch
haze from an incomplete (or botched) vorlauf would show up in the
beer no matter the temperature, right?
> 4) Finally, I've seen haze problems in the past when iron levels get
> high in my local water supply (which can happen periodically). There's
> not much you can do about this other than to cut or replace your water
> with another source.
>
> Hope that helps -- tAfkaks.
>
Thanks - JB
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
|
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Date: 17 Jul 2006 12:26:45
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: malts for a Bohemian-style pilsner
|
John Bleichert wrote:
> The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty <mikey666@666swampgas.666com> wrote:
>
>>John Bleichert wrote:
>>
>>>John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <spam@shagg.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:14:15 GMT, <syborg@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> <massive snip>
>
>>
>>I crash cool regularly as well -- but I keg, which means I don't require
>>any vigor in the yeast for subsequent bottle conditioning.
>>
>>Crash cooling is probably most effective for dropping yeast. Cold temps
>>also drop out chill haze, but this takes a good bit longer. Whirlflock
>>or IM will usually help a great deal with subsequent protein haze. If
>>you have the ability, you might want to try to figure out the source of
>>your haze. A couple of quick things to check:
>>
>>1) Does the haze only form in cold beer? If so, it's probably chill
>>haze. Since you mention that you still see the haze at warmer temps,
>>this is probably not the case.
>>
>>2) Have access to a microscope? If you do, you can check the sample for
>>yeast. If you have enough yeast to cause haze, they will be readily
>>visible even at 100x.
>>
>>3) As far as poor break is concerned, take a sample of cooled wort after
>>your boil (but before pitching) and put it into a hydro jar. Let it set
>>for 10 minutes or so. At this point, you should CLEARLY see break
>>material settling to the bottom of the jar, and the wort above the break
>>material should be nearly crystal clear. If this is not the case, you're
>>either getting a really lousy break during the boil or starch haze
>>(usually a lautering problem).
>
>
> It's definitely not a chill haze, I've seen that before. Thanks for
> the suggestions in #3 above, I'll try it next brew. My gut instinct is
> that it's a lautering problem, I'm not convinced I've gotten it 100%
> correct yet (working in a vacuum, no grain brewers around). Starch
> haze from an incomplete (or botched) vorlauf would show up in the
> beer no matter the temperature, right?
>
I think so -- but starch haze is not really a problem I've ever had
personally (seen the other 3, though). AFAIK you need to be doing
something REALLY wrong in your lauter to get a significant amount of
starch in the finished beer.
Of course, you could be looking at yeast haze as well or even an
infection -- probably not the latter, but it's always a possibility.
You might also be able to eliminate yeast haze as a possibility as
follows: take a sample of the finished beer in a hydro jar and cover it
with some foil. Refrigerate it as close to freezing as you can for 7
days. This *should* settle out most strains of yeast. Then (to eliminate
chill haze effects) let the sample come up to room temp and check for
clarity). If it's clear, you have a yeast haze problem.
If you suspect protein, I've had better results with Whirlflock than IM.
Even though they're both basically the same substance I suspect
whirlflock is delivered more effectively in the wort.
Hope that helps -- m
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
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Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
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Date: 17 Jul 2006 17:24:21
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: malts for a Bohemian-style pilsner
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On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 15:05:23 GMT, <syborg@earthlink.net > wrote:
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <spam@shagg.net> wrote:
>> On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:14:15 GMT, <syborg@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> I've read that I may be able to clear some of this cloudiness by using
>>> a protein rest. Worth a shot, just for curiosity's sake. I'm also
>>> going to start cold-conditioning my ales, just to see what effect it
>>> has.
>>
>> In my experience, cold conditioning makes a dramatic improvement to the
>> clarity. I do it on a lot of my lighter colored beers now. Basically,
>> I follow my typical schedule for primary/secondary, make sure fermentation
>> is done, and then drop the temp down to the low 30s as fast as the freezer
>> will do it. I leave it there for a couple days and then keg/bottle.
>>
>
> A question (which I'll hit again once I start lagering) - do you let
> the carboy return to ambient/room temperature before priming and
> bottling?
I keg, so it's not as much of an issue. I don't think it would make much
difference for bottling either, but I haven't done that.
>> The only thing to watch out for is that the yeast will probably go into
>> thermal shock. This doesn't matter as long as fermentation was complete
>> before you did the cold conditioning. However, if you waited until after
>> the cold conditioning to check that your fermentation is complete, the
>> yeast being in shock may give the illusion that they have stopped
>> fermenting. This could lead to carbonation problems if they start back
>> up once the shock wears off.
>>
>>
>> John.
>
> I check gravity on a regular basis, hopefully I won't shock
> them. Don't need or want any bottle bombs...
Just make sure you've reached a stable FG before you cold condition and you
should be fine.
John.
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Date: 17 Jul 2006 09:20:47
From: Jim Stansell
Subject: Re: malts for a Bohemian-style pilsner
|
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:03:34 GMT, John Bleichert
<syborg@earthlink.net > wrote:
>Hello All
>
>( gearing up for my first pilsner )
>
>After trawling the archives, searchin the web and readin Daniels'
>section on pilsners, I seem to have 2 routes to follow. It seems that
>if I do an infusion mash (with an added protein rest) that I should
>add some crystal and some CaraPils to the grist. However, if I have a
>whack at a decion mash all I will need in the grist is the pilsner
>malt.
>
>Does this sound about right? I think my first time through I'm going
>to use the first option, but I'm just curious. There's conflicting
>info everywhere.
Others may disagree (and probably will!), but I've made several very
nice pilsners using just 100% pils malt (typically Durst) and a single
infusion at 148-150 degrees. I think you can probably skip the protein
rest.
If you want, you can throw in some melanoidin malt to "simulate" the
decion, but I wouldn't go above 5-8% or else you'll get too much
color.
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Date: 17 Jul 2006 13:30:25
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: malts for a Bohemian-style pilsner
|
Jim Stansell <jim.stansell@comcast.net > wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:03:34 GMT, John Bleichert
> <syborg@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>Hello All
>>
>>( gearing up for my first pilsner )
>>
>>After trawling the archives, searchin the web and readin Daniels'
>>section on pilsners, I seem to have 2 routes to follow. It seems that
>>if I do an infusion mash (with an added protein rest) that I should
>>add some crystal and some CaraPils to the grist. However, if I have a
>>whack at a decion mash all I will need in the grist is the pilsner
>>malt.
>>
>>Does this sound about right? I think my first time through I'm going
>>to use the first option, but I'm just curious. There's conflicting
>>info everywhere.
>
> Others may disagree (and probably will!), but I've made several very
> nice pilsners using just 100% pils malt (typically Durst) and a single
> infusion at 148-150 degrees. I think you can probably skip the protein
> rest.
>
> If you want, you can throw in some melanoidin malt to "simulate" the
> decion, but I wouldn't go above 5-8% or else you'll get too much
> color.
Since I went all-grain I've had some problems with hazy beer. Not a
big deal, but I don't like it. I've been thinking of inserting a
protein rest in all my mashes (which is no big deal) to counteract the
hardness of my water and reduce this accursed haze. Irish moss
etc. doesn't do anything but deflate the head.
Thanks for the response though! Is melanoidin malt like a combination
of crystal and carapils (colored/caramel and dextrinous)?
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 17 Jul 2006 14:01:04
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: malts for a Bohemian-style pilsner
|
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:30:25 GMT, <syborg@earthlink.net > wrote:
> Since I went all-grain I've had some problems with hazy beer. Not a
> big deal, but I don't like it. I've been thinking of inserting a
> protein rest in all my mashes (which is no big deal) to counteract the
> hardness of my water and reduce this accursed haze. Irish moss
> etc. doesn't do anything but deflate the head.
I'm assuming when you switched to all-grain you also switched to doing full
boils? What type of chiller do you use, and how long does it take to chill
the batch. Lack of a good cold break will cause chill haze problems. I
don't know if that's what you're running into, but most malts these days
shouldn't require a protein rest (unless you're specifically buying
under-modified grain).
John.
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Date: 17 Jul 2006 14:06:57
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: malts for a Bohemian-style pilsner
|
John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <spam@shagg.net > wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:30:25 GMT, <syborg@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Since I went all-grain I've had some problems with hazy beer. Not a
>> big deal, but I don't like it. I've been thinking of inserting a
>> protein rest in all my mashes (which is no big deal) to counteract the
>> hardness of my water and reduce this accursed haze. Irish moss
>> etc. doesn't do anything but deflate the head.
>
> I'm assuming when you switched to all-grain you also switched to doing full
> boils? What type of chiller do you use, and how long does it take to chill
> the batch. Lack of a good cold break will cause chill haze problems. I
> don't know if that's what you're running into, but most malts these days
> shouldn't require a protein rest (unless you're specifically buying
> under-modified grain).
>
>
> John.
Yes, moved to a full boil. Takes abot 20-25 minutes to get the wort
down to around 70F. I've hit chill haze before, the haze I'm seeing
exists even before they beer is chilled (I like my beer at cellar
temps sometimes).
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 17 Jul 2006 09:40:48
From: Jim Stansell
Subject: Re: malts for a Bohemian-style pilsner
|
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:30:25 GMT, John Bleichert
<syborg@earthlink.net > wrote:
>Jim Stansell <jim.stansell@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:03:34 GMT, John Bleichert
>> <syborg@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Others may disagree (and probably will!), but I've made several very
>> nice pilsners using just 100% pils malt (typically Durst) and a single
>> infusion at 148-150 degrees. I think you can probably skip the protein
>> rest.
>>
>> If you want, you can throw in some melanoidin malt to "simulate" the
>> decion, but I wouldn't go above 5-8% or else you'll get too much
>> color.
>
>Since I went all-grain I've had some problems with hazy beer. Not a
>big deal, but I don't like it. I've been thinking of inserting a
>protein rest in all my mashes (which is no big deal) to counteract the
>hardness of my water and reduce this accursed haze. Irish moss
>etc. doesn't do anything but deflate the head.
>
>Thanks for the response though! Is melanoidin malt like a combination
>of crystal and carapils (colored/caramel and dextrinous)?
>
>
Menanoidin malt is kind of like Munich malt on steroids......hence, I
wouldn't use too much in a pils. From the Weyermann website:
"High degree of modification of both proteins and starches. Excellent
friability. Low â-glucan values. Highly acidic. Highly malt-aromatic.
Adds deep-amber to red-brown color, maltiness, body, and mouthfeel to
finished beer. Promotes flavor stability."
So, you're getting a little of the decion effect in the mouthfeel,
body, and overall maltiness. It's about 30 lovibond, but I've used it
in a pils before and it hasn't altered the color noticeably.
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