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Date: 23 Aug 2006 10:05:32
From: IrishRedBrew
Subject: lager troubles....oh, the troubles, so many
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So there are to many veriables to account for to research though other
questions so please understand that i did find some answers on the
forum but I think there are to many veriables.
I brewed a Oktoberfest on July 27th. I played around with decotion
once again. I used 10lbs of Munich. I used a triple decion mash
(as suggested by Noonan on page 127 of "New Brewing Lager Book"). I
bittered with Hallertau and flavored with tettnanger. Forgot the
whirfloc. Cooled to 72F and pitched a 1000ml starter of 2 vials of
WLP820 (fest) that I made 2 days prior. My OG was a very efficent
14 Plato (86ish%).
Now up until then (besides forgeting the whirfloc) everything was going
GREAT! But since my wife and I live in a small apartment I used the
kitchen frig while we were gone for the last 3 weeks of summer @ 50 (a
little from the 52-58 white labs recomends but I think lagers most
lagers produce clean flavors at 50F). I though when I got back it
would be done (or at least ALMOST done with the primary stage). Though
in that whole time my gravity dropped 3.5 degrees (1.050). My wife my
wife and I wanted to both use the fridge so I cleaned a keg and racked.
That I could be my biggest mistake. I tried as hard as I could to
suck up as much of the cake at the bottom. So it has been in a new
mini fridge that I got since I couldn't keep it in our fridge. It is
sitting comfortably at 50-51F. The airlock is bubbling every 18ish
secs. and the gravity is about 10 or 1.040.
I read that white labs 820 is slow with the first generation but this
can't be normal. It's rounding the corner for a month! I understand
this a somewhat bigger lager but a month? Would you suggest that I
repitch? What'd ya think????
Irish
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Date: 23 Aug 2006 17:42:25
From: IrishRedBrew
Subject: Re: lager troubles....oh, the troubles, so many
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So if (Hopefully not "when") my FG stops at 1.025, what do you suggest
that I do? repitch? I'm not sure I'm digging this whole Bean-O thing.
If I go and buy a Germen Lager Wyeast pack and pitch the smack pack in
a day or so will that help??! Or have I wasted 7 more bucks like I did
when I pitched 2 vials? Also If my FG is expected to be higher then
does that change when to do a diacytl rest? I was going to do the rest
in about a week when the gravity hits 1.030-1.028.
One of the biggest reasons i like brewing lagers (this is my second in
case you haven't figured out) is that it gives me so much to do and
worry about. Can you sense the sarcasm.
Thanks for all your input everyone!
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Date: 23 Aug 2006 21:18:28
From: rjwhite6
Subject: Re: lager troubles....oh, the troubles, so many
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On 23 Aug 2006 17:42:25 -0700, "IrishRedBrew" <redrump21@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>So if (Hopefully not "when") my FG stops at 1.025, what do you suggest
>that I do? repitch? I'm not sure I'm digging this whole Bean-O thing.
> If I go and buy a Germen Lager Wyeast pack and pitch the smack pack in
>a day or so will that help??! Or have I wasted 7 more bucks like I did
>when I pitched 2 vials? Also If my FG is expected to be higher then
>does that change when to do a diacytl rest? I was going to do the rest
>in about a week when the gravity hits 1.030-1.028.
>
>One of the biggest reasons i like brewing lagers (this is my second in
>case you haven't figured out) is that it gives me so much to do and
>worry about. Can you sense the sarcasm.
>
>Thanks for all your input everyone!
Oops, did I forget to mention that with less than optimum pitching
rates there is less yeast available to clean up the diacytl?
Others may disagree but I suggest that you grow a 2 liter starter to
pitch rather than just pitching another tube because at lager temps
that poor little tube of yeast just won't do much.
Or you could just let it go and pretend that it's an ale :-)
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Date: 24 Aug 2006 14:59:29
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: lager troubles....oh, the troubles, so many
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On 23 Aug 2006 17:42:25 -0700, <redrump21@yahoo.com > wrote:
> So if (Hopefully not "when") my FG stops at 1.025, what do you suggest
> that I do? repitch? I'm not sure I'm digging this whole Bean-O thing.
If your fermentation stalls early because of yeast pitching issues, then
beano would not be the right thing to do. Beano has nothing to do with
fixing yeast health problems.
John.
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Date: 23 Aug 2006 12:44:49
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: lager troubles....oh, the troubles, so many
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IrishRedBrew wrote:
>
> What about just sprinkling some Safale 23 Lager yeast? with a gravity
> of 1.040isn and at about 52ish would it still taste like a lager? I'm
> just trying to avoid diacytl and other off favors that seem to creep
> into my lagers.
Based on my experience with that yeast, I'd stay as far from it as
possible.
------------ >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 23 Aug 2006 12:19:30
From: IrishRedBrew
Subject: Re: lager troubles....oh, the troubles, so many
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What about just sprinkling some Safale 23 Lager yeast? with a gravity
of 1.040isn and at about 52ish would it still taste like a lager? I'm
just trying to avoid diacytl and other off favors that seem to creep
into my lagers.
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Date: 23 Aug 2006 12:17:10
From: IrishRedBrew
Subject: Re: lager troubles....oh, the troubles, so many
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What in your opinion will I risk jsut leaving it? Also How is a 1
liter starter of two vials not enough, even for a lager?
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Date: 23 Aug 2006 19:48:47
From: rjwhite6
Subject: Re: lager troubles....oh, the troubles, so many
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On 23 Aug 2006 12:17:10 -0700, "IrishRedBrew" <redrump21@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>What in your opinion will I risk jsut leaving it?
The final gravity will probably be quite a bit higher than it would
have been with recommended starter volume.
It probably will not be as 'clean' as it would have been with the
recommended starter volume.
> Also How is a 1 liter starter of two vials not enough, even for a lager?
A 2 liter or 1 gallon starter would have provided more food for the (2
vials of) yeast so you would have had more yeast growth and ultimately
more yeast to pitch (all others factors being equal).
.
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Date: 23 Aug 2006 14:36:59
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: lager troubles....oh, the troubles, so many
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IrishRedBrew wrote:
> What in your opinion will I risk jsut leaving it? Also How is a 1
> liter starter of two vials not enough, even for a lager?
>
The two vials part doesn't matter -- the limiting factor on growth in
the starter was the volume of the starter. The gravity of the starter is
also a limiting factor. In theory, the higher the gravity, the more food
is available -- but then alcohol production and osmotic issues become a
stress factor.
Sometimes a one liter starter will work -- sometimes not. A gallons
starter will always work, and get you around the commecial pitching rate
for lagers. You get a faster start, more complete, and generally cleaner
ferments. 2 liters would be an absolute minimum for a lager in my opinion.
Note that a liter is fine for most ales.
Leaving it is an option -- but bear in mind with a lager you ideally
want to limit growth in the wort, since a lot of byproducts tend to be
produced when yeast grow -- even at a low temperature. The low temps
will help prevent invection, but there's still lots of food there for
spoilage organsims.
If it were me, I wouldn't leave it -- but it may come out fine. I just
think your odds are better repitching.
As far as S-23 goes -- I dunno -- I haven't used it. I haven't, however,
heard anything good about it -- people complain a lot about fruitiness.
I just reccomended W34/70 because it has worked for me in the past, and
I've heard better reports. I think it's supposed to be the same strain
as WL 820. AFAIK you can only get W34/70 in homebrew quantities form
Beer, Beer and More Beer.
Hope that helps -- m
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!
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Date: 23 Aug 2006 13:57:33
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: lager troubles....oh, the troubles, so many
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IrishRedBrew wrote:
> So there are to many veriables to account for to research though other
> questions so please understand that i did find some answers on the
> forum but I think there are to many veriables.
>
> I brewed a Oktoberfest on July 27th. I played around with decotion
> once again. I used 10lbs of Munich. I used a triple decion mash
> (as suggested by Noonan on page 127 of "New Brewing Lager Book"). I
> bittered with Hallertau and flavored with tettnanger. Forgot the
> whirfloc. Cooled to 72F and pitched a 1000ml starter of 2 vials of
> WLP820 (fest) that I made 2 days prior. My OG was a very efficent
> 14 Plato (86ish%).
>
> Now up until then (besides forgeting the whirfloc) everything was going
> GREAT! But since my wife and I live in a small apartment I used the
> kitchen frig while we were gone for the last 3 weeks of summer @ 50 (a
> little from the 52-58 white labs recomends but I think lagers most
> lagers produce clean flavors at 50F). I though when I got back it
> would be done (or at least ALMOST done with the primary stage). Though
> in that whole time my gravity dropped 3.5 degrees (1.050). My wife my
> wife and I wanted to both use the fridge so I cleaned a keg and racked.
> That I could be my biggest mistake. I tried as hard as I could to
> suck up as much of the cake at the bottom. So it has been in a new
> mini fridge that I got since I couldn't keep it in our fridge. It is
> sitting comfortably at 50-51F. The airlock is bubbling every 18ish
> secs. and the gravity is about 10 or 1.040.
>
> I read that white labs 820 is slow with the first generation but this
> can't be normal. It's rounding the corner for a month! I understand
> this a somewhat bigger lager but a month? Would you suggest that I
> repitch? What'd ya think????
>
> Irish
>
Personally, I'd repitch using the slurry from a 1 gallon starter -- your
problem looks like classic underpitching combined with intial temp
crashing. You can just pitch a single wl tube or swollen smack pack into
a gallon extract starter (1035-1040) and grow it up at room temp. Leat
the cake settle out, decant the spent wort, and pitch the yeast.
Alternatively, you can order some w34/70 dry lager yeast from B3 and
just pitch about three packs. You could also use dry US-56 ale yeast
(very clean) and around 58F -- but the results might not be quite what
you are looking for.
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!
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Date: 23 Aug 2006 11:28:22
From:
Subject: Re: lager troubles....oh, the troubles, so many
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IrishRedBrew wrote:
>
> I read that white labs 820 is slow with the first generation but this
> can't be normal. It's rounding the corner for a month! I understand
> this a somewhat bigger lager but a month? Would you suggest that I
> repitch? What'd ya think????
I think that if the airlick is still gurgling and the gravity is still
falling let it be.
> Irish
Bryan
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