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Date: 30 May 2006 06:51:12
From: Dave Smith
Subject: lager in keg makes co2 layer?
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A friend and I were discussing how to lager and a very good question was
brought up. I was planning to lager in the carboy to allow any sulfer
type aroma's an escape route. He is currently lagering in a keg and has
simply lifted the little air vent tab so it is constantly open. He says
that if you lay a co2 layer on top of the beer that this will form a
barrier against infection.
Soo, what does everyone think? Which method is better? I'm planning to
begin lagering this week sometime so I have a few days to decide.
Thanks
Dave
ps. i asked this question a few weeks ago but only received one reply.
I'm hoping a more direct subject line garners more reply's.
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Date: 30 May 2006 07:46:56
From: John Krehbiel
Subject: Re: lager in keg makes co2 layer?
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I'm not sure if a CO2 blanket will keep oxygen from difusing through it
anyway.
I tried an experiment with a piece of dry ice. I let it sublime in a
bucket, and at the end of the day lowered a lit match into the bucket.
The match stayed lit the whole way down. I believe that you need a
fairly constant replenishment of CO2 to maintain the blanket effect,
and as I said, I doubt it will keep oxygen out for long.
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Date: 30 May 2006 14:08:36
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: lager in keg makes co2 layer?
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On Tue, 30 May 2006 06:51:12 -0700, <dave@nowhere.com > wrote:
> A friend and I were discussing how to lager and a very good question was
> brought up. I was planning to lager in the carboy to allow any sulfer
> type aroma's an escape route. He is currently lagering in a keg and has
> simply lifted the little air vent tab so it is constantly open. He says
> that if you lay a co2 layer on top of the beer that this will form a
> barrier against infection.
Primary fermentation is one thing, but I wouldn't lager in an "open" container
like that. IMO, it'd be better to try and fit an airlock or blowoff tube to
the keg instead (or use a carboy). Yes, the beer will form a CO2 blanket over
it, but for long term storage it will not protect you as much as you think it
will. Relative amounts of gas want to reach equilibrium. IE if you have
oxygen in the environment and the only thing protecting you from oxygen in the
beer is the CO2 blanket, then the oxygen will pass through it in order to
oxygenate the beer.
Even an airlock isn't a 100% oxygen proof barrier, but IMO it's better than
having an open fermenter for lagering.
John.
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Date: 30 May 2006 14:26:53
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: lager in keg makes co2 layer?
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On 30 May 2006 14:08:36 GMT, <spam@shagg.net > wrote:
> On Tue, 30 May 2006 06:51:12 -0700, <dave@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> A friend and I were discussing how to lager and a very good question was
>> brought up. I was planning to lager in the carboy to allow any sulfer
>> type aroma's an escape route. He is currently lagering in a keg and has
>> simply lifted the little air vent tab so it is constantly open. He says
>> that if you lay a co2 layer on top of the beer that this will form a
>> barrier against infection.
>
> Primary fermentation is one thing, but I wouldn't lager in an "open" container
> like that. IMO, it'd be better to try and fit an airlock or blowoff tube to
> the keg instead (or use a carboy). Yes, the beer will form a CO2 blanket over
> it, but for long term storage it will not protect you as much as you think it
> will. Relative amounts of gas want to reach equilibrium. IE if you have
> oxygen in the environment and the only thing protecting you from oxygen in the
> beer is the CO2 blanket, then the oxygen will pass through it in order to
> oxygenate the beer.
>
> Even an airlock isn't a 100% oxygen proof barrier, but IMO it's better than
> having an open fermenter for lagering.
Also, a CO2 barrier will not protect against infection. With the vent
constantly open like that it's possible that bacteria could fall in, in which
case it would just fall right through the CO2 layer and get into the beer.
You may be fine regarding an infection, but it would have more to do with
luck and the properties of fermented beer that help prevent infections than
it has anything to do with a CO2 layer.
I'd be more worried about oxidizing the beer this way.
John.
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Date: 30 May 2006 08:13:51
From: Dave Smith
Subject: Re: lager in keg makes co2 layer?
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Thanks for the reply's. My friend is experimenting with "the powers of
co2" and I'm watching with great interest. For the moment I'll stick
with the airlock for myself though.
You mentioned that this could be done for primary fermentation, I assume
this means open fermentation. Have you done any experimenting in this
area?
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Date: 30 May 2006 15:18:29
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: lager in keg makes co2 layer?
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On Tue, 30 May 2006 08:13:51 -0700, <dave@nowhere.com > wrote:
> Thanks for the reply's. My friend is experimenting with "the powers of
> co2" and I'm watching with great interest. For the moment I'll stick
> with the airlock for myself though.
>
> You mentioned that this could be done for primary fermentation, I assume
> this means open fermentation. Have you done any experimenting in this
> area?
Not personally, but it's a fairly standard method in the UK. The big
difference is that during primary fermentation the yeast are actively
creating CO2 and providing positive pressure to blow gas out from the beer.
This helps to keep oxygen and bacteria away from the surface. You don't
have this happening with a less active secondary or lagering phase.
John.
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