how to get drinkable clear beer quickly

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Date: 08 Nov 2006 03:24:36
From: MarkMc
Subject: how to get drinkable clear beer quickly

I've heard various people say that they have clear, drinkable beer in
3-4 weeks.

I have a low gravity (1.037) beer that I made 3 weeks ago, and it's
still very (very) hazy from yeast, and it tastes very green. If I take
a sample and put it in the fridge, I see lots of yeast settling on the
bottom, but still quite cloudy.

Grist was Pale, crystal (10% IIRC) and 5% malted wheat.

I used irish moss in the last 15 mintues of the boil, and the runoff in
to the fermenter was crystal clear.

I've only brewed a few batches, and all took a while to clear, but most
did, but after about 3 months.

I wonder if I'm doing something wrong, or if people are fining their
beers to drink them so quickly.

Regards,
Mark

Date: 08 Nov 2006 09:55:00
From:
Subject: Re: how to get drinkable clear beer quickly

Date: 08 Nov 2006 11:52:02
From: Dan Listermann
Subject: Re: how to get drinkable clear beer quickly

"MarkMc" <mmcnospam@yahoo.co.uk > wrote in message
news:1162985076.153579.205430@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I've heard various people say that they have clear, drinkable beer in
> 3-4 weeks.
>
> I have a low gravity (1.037) beer that I made 3 weeks ago, and it's
> still very (very) hazy from yeast, and it tastes very green. If I take
> a sample and put it in the fridge, I see lots of yeast settling on the
> bottom, but still quite cloudy.

You may not be seeing suspended yeast but rather chill haze forming in the
fridge.

Dan

Date: 08 Nov 2006 16:13:21
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: how to get drinkable clear beer quickly

On 8 Nov 2006 03:24:36 -0800, <mmcnospam@yahoo.co.uk > wrote:
> I've heard various people say that they have clear, drinkable beer in
> 3-4 weeks.
>
> I have a low gravity (1.037) beer that I made 3 weeks ago, and it's
> still very (very) hazy from yeast, and it tastes very green. If I take
> a sample and put it in the fridge, I see lots of yeast settling on the
> bottom, but still quite cloudy.

If you can, crash cooling the beer in the secondary is a great way of
forcing it to clarify more quickly. By that I mean go through your normal
primary fermentation and secondary fermentation. Then when that is complete
you drop the temp as low as you can for a couple days before you bottle. On
mine I'll drop the temp down to almost freezing. You'd probably need a
fermentation fridge/freezer for that, which I'm guessing you don't have since
you mentioned that you've only done a few batches. Other than that, patience
is the real key. However, cloudiness and/or haziness shouldn't really
have too much of an effect on the flavor. It's mostly just appearance.

I'm a bit surprised that you said a 1.037 beer was still "green" tasting
after 3 weeks. I would have expected a relatively low OG beer like that
to mature pretty quickly. Are you talking about 3 weeks since you brewed
it (IE including fermentation time), or 3 weeks since you bottled it?

John.

Date: 08 Nov 2006 08:41:52
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: how to get drinkable clear beer quickly

I have a couple of beers that are ready inside 16 days or so. Note that
choice of yeast may be important as well -- both of these use US-56.

Basically, these beers are blond ales, but the exact recipe probably
isn't hugely important. I shoot for an SG of 1.052 or so, relatively
light hopping by homebrew standards, and ferment with US-56 (you can
also use any of the other common liquid American Ale strains with a
decent starter but US-56 dry is easiest) at the lower end of it's temp
range -- around 62F or so.

You can go lower with this yeast, but it seems to produce diacetyl if
you go below 60, which will lengthen the maturity time. I generally use
whirlflock in the boil.

Once the primary is complete, I crash cool the beer in the fermenter,
and leave it there close to 32F (usually around 34F) for 3 days or more
(depending on how busy I am with other things). My usual fermenter is
a 10 gallon corny with a shortened dip tube. This allows the yeast and
some haze components to crash out and pack on the bottom of the fermenter.

After the crash cooling period, I use CO2 to push the beer from the
fermenter into a keg. Note that I don't move the fermenter at all so as
not to disturb the contents. The beer that goes into the keg is quite clear.

Then I force carbonate the keg and and age it for the remainder. Beers
done this way are generally good after 16 days from the start of the
ferment, but may take a little longer to completely clear of any chill
haze, although there is no yeast haze at all.

I never secondary any of my beers, and do not have haze issues.

Hope that helps -- m

MarkMc wrote:
> I've heard various people say that they have clear, drinkable beer in
> 3-4 weeks.
>
> I have a low gravity (1.037) beer that I made 3 weeks ago, and it's
> still very (very) hazy from yeast, and it tastes very green. If I take
> a sample and put it in the fridge, I see lots of yeast settling on the
> bottom, but still quite cloudy.
>
> Grist was Pale, crystal (10% IIRC) and 5% malted wheat.
>
> I used irish moss in the last 15 mintues of the boil, and the runoff in
> to the fermenter was crystal clear.
>
> I've only brewed a few batches, and all took a while to clear, but most
> did, but after about 3 months.
>
> I wonder if I'm doing something wrong, or if people are fining their
> beers to drink them so quickly.
>
> Regards,
> Mark
>

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Date: 08 Nov 2006 06:36:55
From: strangebrewer
Subject: Re: how to get drinkable clear beer quickly

MarkMc wrote:
> I've heard various people say that they have clear, drinkable beer in
> 3-4 weeks.

I've had clear, drinkable beer in a week, but that's pushing it. A
friend had hazy, drinkable hefeweizen in 3 days, but that's *really*
pushing it!

> I have a low gravity (1.037) beer that I made 3 weeks ago, and it's
> still very (very) hazy from yeast, and it tastes very green. If I take
> a sample and put it in the fridge, I see lots of yeast settling on the
> bottom, but still quite cloudy.

I'm guessing you've got a slow floccing yeast. Fining, racking again,
stirring the beer to release CO2, and "crash cooling" (chilling the
carboy to near freezing) might all speed up the clearing process.

If you're looking for fast beer, I think you've probably got everything
right (low OG, good temps, etc) but the yeast strain. Look for a fast
and flocculant strain -- eg, DCL S04 is the fastest yeast I know of.
WY1968 is also very flocculant - I'm sure there's a WL equivalent.

Drew
www.strangebrew.ca

Date: 08 Nov 2006 13:47:48
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: how to get drinkable clear beer quickly

MarkMc <mmcnospam@yahoo.co.uk > wrote:
> I've heard various people say that they have clear, drinkable beer in
> 3-4 weeks.
>
> I have a low gravity (1.037) beer that I made 3 weeks ago, and it's
> still very (very) hazy from yeast, and it tastes very green. If I take
> a sample and put it in the fridge, I see lots of yeast settling on the
> bottom, but still quite cloudy.
>
> Grist was Pale, crystal (10% IIRC) and 5% malted wheat.
>
> I used irish moss in the last 15 mintues of the boil, and the runoff in
> to the fermenter was crystal clear.
>
> I've only brewed a few batches, and all took a while to clear, but most
> did, but after about 3 months.
>
> I wonder if I'm doing something wrong, or if people are fining their
> beers to drink them so quickly.
>
> Regards,
> Mark
>

I use the London Ale yeast in my nut brown, it's delicious, but it
does take a bit to clear. Did you secondary? If you don't secondary,
it will take forever to clear in the bottle. That's just my
experience. Even now that my basement is hovering at 60F, I stick my
nut brown secondary in my freezer at 34F for a coupla days before
bottling just to clarify it, and it helps.

That said, crash-chilling before bottling isn't required. Secondarying
*and* good racking skills *are* required for that yeast, though, in my
opinion.

HTH!

PS: I make a mild (at 1.037ish) with WLP005 and it's perfect in the
bottle (I always secondary all my ales) in 2 weeks. It and my
hefe-weizen are the only beers I make that I'll drink before the 1
month mark.

-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!

Date: 10 Nov 2006 13:52:23
From: Chris Szajna
Subject: Re: how to get drinkable clear beer quickly

"John Bleichert" <syborg@earthlink.net > wrote in message
news:8el4h.4303$ig4.2144@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> MarkMc <mmcnospam@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> I've heard various people say that they have clear, drinkable beer in
>> 3-4 weeks.
>>
>> I have a low gravity (1.037) beer that I made 3 weeks ago, and it's
>> still very (very) hazy from yeast, and it tastes very green. If I take
>> a sample and put it in the fridge, I see lots of yeast settling on the
>> bottom, but still quite cloudy.
>>
>> Grist was Pale, crystal (10% IIRC) and 5% malted wheat.
>>
>> I used irish moss in the last 15 mintues of the boil, and the runoff in
>> to the fermenter was crystal clear.
>>
>> I've only brewed a few batches, and all took a while to clear, but most
>> did, but after about 3 months.
>>
>> I wonder if I'm doing something wrong, or if people are fining their
>> beers to drink them so quickly.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mark
>>
>
> I use the London Ale yeast in my nut brown, it's delicious, but it
> does take a bit to clear. Did you secondary? If you don't secondary,
> it will take forever to clear in the bottle. That's just my
> experience. Even now that my basement is hovering at 60F, I stick my
> nut brown secondary in my freezer at 34F for a coupla days before
> bottling just to clarify it, and it helps.
>
> That said, crash-chilling before bottling isn't required. Secondarying
> *and* good racking skills *are* required for that yeast, though, in my
> opinion.
>
> HTH!
>
> PS: I make a mild (at 1.037ish) with WLP005 and it's perfect in the
> bottle (I always secondary all my ales) in 2 weeks. It and my
> hefe-weizen are the only beers I make that I'll drink before the 1
> month mark.
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
> The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
>

I have had good luck using Irish Moss in the last 15 minutes of boil (not
longer) and using gelatin in the secondary.

I agree with others too. A nice slow secondary fermentation and crash
chilling work very well too.

Cheers,

Chris

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Date: 08 Nov 2006 12:54:45
From: Sam G. Daher
Subject: Re: how to get drinkable clear beer quickly

Are you bottling or kegging? If you are bottling after fermentation and
bottle conditioning your beer you will always have some junk in the beer as
that is part of natural carbonation. If you keg and force carbonate with
CO2 you you still get some junk in the beer but since the siphon tube sucks
from the bottom of the keg first it will be gone with the first few pints,
then the rest is pretty clear. I do get very clear beers and they are
drinkable in 3 weeks. I must say that since i switched to a ss conical
fermenter with a rotating racking arm that i bought from St. Pats before
they got out of the homebrew business my beers have gone to keg very clear
with minimal trub. I previously used a plastic conical that did not yeild
the same results as the sides were not as steep. With the SS conical all the
crap packs tight at the bottom and when i do my yeast dumps i have niice
clear beer to run off to the kegs.

"MarkMc" <mmcnospam@yahoo.co.uk > wrote in message
news:1162985076.153579.205430@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I've heard various people say that they have clear, drinkable beer in
> 3-4 weeks.
>
> I have a low gravity (1.037) beer that I made 3 weeks ago, and it's
> still very (very) hazy from yeast, and it tastes very green. If I take
> a sample and put it in the fridge, I see lots of yeast settling on the
> bottom, but still quite cloudy.
>
> Grist was Pale, crystal (10% IIRC) and 5% malted wheat.
>
> I used irish moss in the last 15 mintues of the boil, and the runoff in
> to the fermenter was crystal clear.
>
> I've only brewed a few batches, and all took a while to clear, but most
> did, but after about 3 months.
>
> I wonder if I'm doing something wrong, or if people are fining their
> beers to drink them so quickly.
>
> Regards,
> Mark
>

Date: 08 Nov 2006 03:28:01
From: MarkMc
Subject: Re: how to get drinkable clear beer quickly

I should also add that the yeast was WLP013 - London Ale, I made a 2L
1.035 starter (DME), and did a temperature controlled ferment for 7
days at 20C - 68F

Cheers,
Mark

Date: 08 Nov 2006 16:19:04
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: how to get drinkable clear beer quickly

On 8 Nov 2006 03:28:01 -0800, <mmcnospam@yahoo.co.uk > wrote:
> I should also add that the yeast was WLP013 - London Ale, I made a 2L
> 1.035 starter (DME), and did a temperature controlled ferment for 7
> days at 20C - 68F

FYI, Whitelabs lists WLP013 as "medium" flocculation (IE, how well it
settles out). However, they do make a note in the description that:

"Does not flocculate as much as WLP002 and WLP005"

So that may be part of it. IOW, this particular yeast just tends to
stay suspended in the beer a little more than others instead of settling
out. Some extra time and patience should take care of that though.

WLP002 "English Ale" is listed as "very high" flocculation. IMO, it's
a pretty nice yeast. Maybe give that a try next time instead of WLP013?

John.

Date: 08 Nov 2006 23:06:34
From: Dan Logcher
Subject: Re: how to get drinkable clear beer quickly

MarkMc wrote:
> I've heard various people say that they have clear, drinkable beer in
> 3-4 weeks.
>
> I have a low gravity (1.037) beer that I made 3 weeks ago, and it's
> still very (very) hazy from yeast, and it tastes very green. If I take
> a sample and put it in the fridge, I see lots of yeast settling on the
> bottom, but still quite cloudy.
>
> Grist was Pale, crystal (10% IIRC) and 5% malted wheat.
>
> I used irish moss in the last 15 mintues of the boil, and the runoff in
> to the fermenter was crystal clear.
>
> I've only brewed a few batches, and all took a while to clear, but most
> did, but after about 3 months.
>
> I wonder if I'm doing something wrong, or if people are fining their
> beers to drink them so quickly.

I've brewed 14 batches in less than a year and all but this last one cleared
out in secondary within 2 weeks. This last one I used 2# of honey and I racked
to secondary before fermentation had completed.. It continued in secondary which
would explain why its still cloudy after a week. All my recipes used crystal,
LME, and brown sugar or honey. I also used irish moss in the last 15 minutes
on all batches.

--
Dan

Date: 09 Nov 2006 15:44:35
From: timmy
Subject: Re: how to get drinkable clear beer quickly

Dan Logcher wrote:
> MarkMc wrote:
>
>> I've heard various people say that they have clear, drinkable beer in
>> 3-4 weeks.
>>
>> I have a low gravity (1.037) beer that I made 3 weeks ago, and it's
>> still very (very) hazy from yeast, and it tastes very green. If I take
>> a sample and put it in the fridge, I see lots of yeast settling on the
>> bottom, but still quite cloudy.
>>

i suspect you might be seeing a protien haze if it's cloudy in the fridge.
it sometimes comes from steeping too hot or if you have some husk in
your boiling pot. you also get it from novelty beers that contain fruits.
basicly the cold temperature makes the loose protiens in the beer bond
and the beer becomes opaqe.
you can get pectic enemzys that will break down the haze, but honestly i
wouldn't bother.
id' stick with the time proven rule of if it still tastes ok , it
probably is.

as for having clear beer quickly, there is only one fast way in my mind
and that's to use a filter. i use a gas powered cart filter at 1 micron,
and all my beer a crystal clear, and drinkable after 2 weeks.

the filter i got cost me $95 AUD and replacement cart's cost $33AUD
(does 2000L), it came with all the pipe and fittings i needed. now that
i've used a filter, i couldn't live without one.

Date: 08 Nov 2006 12:45:15
From: Scott L
Subject: Re: how to get drinkable clear beer quickly

MarkMc wrote:
> I wonder if I'm doing something wrong, or if people are fining their
> beers to drink them so quickly.

Finings won't make a beer more drinkable, they just clear it. It's not
the haze that's making your beer taste "green." You could use finings
to help it clear but then you'd have a clear, "green" beer.

Some yeasts just take a LONG time to settle out. My advice is to sample
your beer periodically, and when it tastes good, drink it. Don't worry
about whether it's clear or not.

Scott

Date: 08 Nov 2006 10:36:49
From: MarkMc
Subject: Re: how to get drinkable clear beer quickly

Hi All

Thanks for all of your replies.

The beer is currently in a glass carboy for secondary. It's been three
weeks since brew day. I will be putting it in to 19L/5 Gallon cornies
and force carbonating.

I suspect the 'green' taste may be the yeast. I'm very sure the haze
is yeast, the beer looks like milk, and it's sitting at about 13-15C
ambient in a dark cupboard.

I'll just leave it for another couple of weeks to see what happens, but
a brewer friend has suggested some finings, which I may resort to (I AM
OUT OF HOMEBREW!).

I have earmarked a chest freezer and added a replacement adjustable
thermostat on it, but I need to buy a replacement upright freezer
before my wife will allow me to empty the contents and put my beer in
it!

I dumped a 1.060 London Porter on top of the yeast cake, and this
fermented out nicely in 3-4 days, and this too has a lot of yeast in
supension. I put a glass tumbler full of this in the fridge for a few
hours and the bottom of the glass was thick with yeast, but the sample
was still fairly yeasty/cloudy. Really, the first 1.037 beer was a
'starter' for the Porter.

I may well use a different yeast next time, but I live in the London
suburbs and most of my favourite beers are London beers so WLP013 was a
natural choice for me in that way. And like I said, the *real* brew
was a London Porter. The other English/British yeast strains are from
the north AFAIK, which is generally for things like IPA's and very
bitter pale ales with a lot of gypsum. I'm not so keen on this style.

Regards,
Mark

Date: 09 Nov 2006 08:13:09
From: GeoffT
Subject: Re: how to get drinkable clear beer quickly

To clear the finished beer I use auxiliary finings (to remove
protein/chill haze) then Isinglass (to help drop yeast out). Not at the
same time as these are oppositely charged and will cancel each other
out. I also use whirlfloc in the boil. Then I will force carbonate at
4-5 degrees over a week or so.

All of these steps together give me bright beer within 2 or 3 weeks,
but I will often leave it longer.