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Main
Date: 02 Nov 2006 12:48:47
From: Gerard Eberlein
Subject: could it be done?
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Made a starter last night, first one, using 3068 fully activated smackpack 1
qt water and 3/4 cups 55/45 wheat DME. Boiled, crash cooled the wort, put it
in a 1/2 gallon growler shook the bejeezus out of it and had activity within
10 minutes or so. Kept shaking it every 20 minutes or so till bedtime. Woke
up this morning was still going but had settled out some yeast, I assume
it's yeast, shook it to restir the yeast in. Been shaking it every time I
think of it. The top of the starter keeps dropping krausen after sitting for
half hour and only bubbles the airlock when I shake it. It hasn't even been
24 hours since I pitched. Can it be close to done already? Also I never
thought of it but even though it's not in direct sunlight, I didn't cloak it
so it's been in indirect sunlight for maybe 6 hours. Will this affect the
flavour of my brew i.e skunking? Thanx in advance.
Gerard
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Date: 02 Nov 2006 09:58:45
From: Scott L
Subject: Re: could it be done?
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Sorry -- forgot to mention one other thing, which is the use of an
airlock on the starter. The airlock will actually prevent fresh air
(oxygen) from finding its way into the starter. So if you shake without
exchanging the air first, you're just wasting your time. I don't use an
airlock on my starters, I just cover the mouth of the flask with a
large piece of sanitized aluminum foil and fold it over. This blocks
bad stuff from falling in the starter and leaves enough space for air
exchange.
Scott
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Date: 02 Nov 2006 14:01:06
From: Gerard Eberlein
Subject: Re: could it be done?
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"Scott L" <scott-sp02@neuralnw.com > wrote in message
news:1162490325.700316.68500@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Sorry -- forgot to mention one other thing, which is the use of an
> airlock on the starter. The airlock will actually prevent fresh air
> (oxygen) from finding its way into the starter. So if you shake without
> exchanging the air first, you're just wasting your time. I don't use an
> airlock on my starters, I just cover the mouth of the flask with a
> large piece of sanitized aluminum foil and fold it over. This blocks
> bad stuff from falling in the starter and leaves enough space for air
> exchange.
>
> Scott
>
Hmmm...it's already clarifying...I mean like when you do a secondary and you
can actually see the top layer is a different color as the bottom of the
wort and in the very bottom the yeast cake is forming...if this settles out
all the way should I refridge this or leave it? I'm planning on pitching
Saturday morning/afternoon.
Gerard
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Date: 02 Nov 2006 14:39:43
From: Jim Stansell
Subject: Re: could it be done?
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On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 14:01:06 -0500, "Gerard Eberlein"
<dormouse@charter.net > wrote:
>Hmmm...it's already clarifying...I mean like when you do a secondary and you
>can actually see the top layer is a different color as the bottom of the
>wort and in the very bottom the yeast cake is forming...if this settles out
>all the way should I refridge this or leave it? I'm planning on pitching
>Saturday morning/afternoon.
>
>Gerard
>
I like to let my starters ferment out completely, and then let the
yeast settle out. On brew day, I decant the spent wort off the yeast.
Then, when I run the wort out of the brew kettle, I run the first
quart or so into the growler with the yeast cake so it can get going
again.
I run the rest of the wort into a carboy, which I let sit for a couple
of hours so all the trub can settle out. I rack the clear work off the
trub into a clean carboy or conical, pitch the yeast (which is active
at this point), aerate, and sit back and watch the fun.
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Date: 03 Nov 2006 15:47:01
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: could it be done?
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On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 14:01:06 -0500, <dormouse@charter.net > wrote:
> Hmmm...it's already clarifying...I mean like when you do a secondary and you
> can actually see the top layer is a different color as the bottom of the
> wort and in the very bottom the yeast cake is forming...if this settles out
> all the way should I refridge this or leave it? I'm planning on pitching
> Saturday morning/afternoon.
I'd leave it alone. If you were going to brew a week from Saturday, then
you might want to put it in the fridge. A couple days at room temp is fine
though.
Once the yeast settles, what I like to do is carefully pour off the liquid
and then pitch just the slurry into my beer. Wait until right before you
pitch the yeast to pour off the liquid though.
John.
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Date: 03 Nov 2006 15:44:12
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: could it be done?
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On 2 Nov 2006 09:58:45 -0800, <scott-sp02@neuralnw.com > wrote:
> Sorry -- forgot to mention one other thing, which is the use of an
> airlock on the starter. The airlock will actually prevent fresh air
> (oxygen) from finding its way into the starter. So if you shake without
> exchanging the air first, you're just wasting your time. I don't use an
> airlock on my starters, I just cover the mouth of the flask with a
> large piece of sanitized aluminum foil and fold it over. This blocks
> bad stuff from falling in the starter and leaves enough space for air
> exchange.
Morebeer (and probably others) sells a pretty cool device for this. It's
a sanitary air filter that is designed to fit into a rubber stopper just
like an airlock does. IMO, works great for starters.
http://morebeer.com/product.html?product_id=16797
John.
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Date: 03 Nov 2006 08:52:31
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: could it be done?
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> Morebeer (and probably others) sells a pretty cool device for this. It's
> a sanitary air filter that is designed to fit into a rubber stopper just
> like an airlock does. IMO, works great for starters.
>
> http://morebeer.com/product.html?product_id=16797
I've just started using a stir plate, and after thinking about this, I
rubber band a paper towel over the top of the flask.
------------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 03 Nov 2006 17:05:22
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: could it be done?
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On Fri, 03 Nov 2006 08:52:31 -0800, <denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us > wrote:
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>
>> Morebeer (and probably others) sells a pretty cool device for this. It's
>> a sanitary air filter that is designed to fit into a rubber stopper just
>> like an airlock does. IMO, works great for starters.
>>
>> http://morebeer.com/product.html?product_id=16797
>
> I've just started using a stir plate, and after thinking about this, I
> rubber band a paper towel over the top of the flask.
I used to just use tinfoil before I got the filter above. They're all
bascially doing the same thing though. The filter just has more of a
"cool gadget" appeal than tinfoil or a pager towel. ;)
John.
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Date: 02 Nov 2006 09:55:32
From: Scott L
Subject: Re: could it be done?
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Eberlein wrote:
> Made a starter last night, first one, using 3068 fully activated smackpack 1
> qt water and 3/4 cups 55/45 wheat DME. Boiled, crash cooled the wort, put it
> in a 1/2 gallon growler shook the bejeezus out of it and had activity within
> 10 minutes or so. Kept shaking it every 20 minutes or so till bedtime. Woke
> up this morning was still going but had settled out some yeast, I assume
> it's yeast, shook it to restir the yeast in. Been shaking it every time I
> think of it. The top of the starter keeps dropping krausen after sitting for
> half hour and only bubbles the airlock when I shake it. It hasn't even been
> 24 hours since I pitched. Can it be close to done already? Also I never
> thought of it but even though it's not in direct sunlight, I didn't cloak it
> so it's been in indirect sunlight for maybe 6 hours. Will this affect the
> flavour of my brew i.e skunking? Thanx in advance.
I think you're working too hard... I never shake a starter except right
after pitching the yeast, although I do sometimes use a stir plate.
With the stir plate, I find that the starters finish up rather quickly,
as you've found out yourself. But the yeast in a super-aerated starter
aren't any "better" than yeast grown without aeration -- it just takes
longer.
As for skunking... Skunking is a reaction between high-frequency light
(blue through UV) and compounds from the hops. Because you didn't use
hops in your starter (not recommended anyway), you can't have problems
with skunking.
A starter isn't beer, it doesn't need coddling really. Mix it up, pitch
the yeast, shake the crap out of it and leave it alone.
Scott
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Date: 03 Nov 2006 15:39:13
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: could it be done?
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On 2 Nov 2006 09:55:32 -0800, <scott-sp02@neuralnw.com > wrote:
> Eberlein wrote:
>> Made a starter last night, first one, using 3068 fully activated smackpack 1
>> qt water and 3/4 cups 55/45 wheat DME. Boiled, crash cooled the wort, put it
>> in a 1/2 gallon growler shook the bejeezus out of it and had activity within
>> 10 minutes or so. Kept shaking it every 20 minutes or so till bedtime. Woke
>> up this morning was still going but had settled out some yeast, I assume
>> it's yeast, shook it to restir the yeast in. Been shaking it every time I
>> think of it. The top of the starter keeps dropping krausen after sitting for
>> half hour and only bubbles the airlock when I shake it. It hasn't even been
>> 24 hours since I pitched. Can it be close to done already? Also I never
>> thought of it but even though it's not in direct sunlight, I didn't cloak it
>> so it's been in indirect sunlight for maybe 6 hours. Will this affect the
>> flavour of my brew i.e skunking? Thanx in advance.
>
> I think you're working too hard... I never shake a starter except right
> after pitching the yeast, although I do sometimes use a stir plate.
> With the stir plate, I find that the starters finish up rather quickly,
> as you've found out yourself. But the yeast in a super-aerated starter
> aren't any "better" than yeast grown without aeration -- it just takes
> longer.
Depends on what you mean by "better". Stir plates or constant aeration
will usually result in more reproduction, so you end up with more yeast.
John.
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Date: 02 Nov 2006 13:52:23
From: Scott L
Subject: Re: could it be done?
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Gerard Eberlein wrote:
> Hmmm...it's already clarifying...I mean like when you do a secondary and you
> can actually see the top layer is a different color as the bottom of the
> wort and in the very bottom the yeast cake is forming...if this settles out
> all the way should I refridge this or leave it? I'm planning on pitching
> Saturday morning/afternoon.
It doesn't really matter that much. If you pitch while the starter is
still fermenting strongly, you may get a shorter lag than if you
pitched a starter which is "asleep." But not by much. I normally get my
starter going at least 2 days in advance, and on the morning of brew
day I put the flask in the refrigerator. This helps most of the yeast
settle out. Then I decant and pitch only the slurry, while it is still
cold.
If you pitch an active starter, it's not really possible to decant the
liquid first, so you end up pitching some funky stuff. Depending on the
beer you're making and how strongly you aerated the starter to begin
with, this might not matter. But continually aerated starters get
pretty sour after several days, I assume due to the oxidation of
ethanol into acetic acid.
I generally do NOT worry about whether the starter is fully fermented.
After two days (i.e. 48 hours of fermentation, NOT counting the initial
lag or the time spent in the fridge) it is generally good enough. Note
that this applies only to ales, I have no experience making starters of
lager yeasts.
Scott
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Date: 02 Nov 2006 17:23:53
From: Gwidman
Subject: Re: could it be done?
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"Scott L" <scott-sp02@neuralnw.com > wrote in message
news:1162504342.906570.262780@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
> Gerard Eberlein wrote:
>> Hmmm...it's already clarifying...I mean like when you do a secondary and
>> you
>> can actually see the top layer is a different color as the bottom of the
>> wort and in the very bottom the yeast cake is forming...if this settles
>> out
>> all the way should I refridge this or leave it? I'm planning on pitching
>> Saturday morning/afternoon.
>
> It doesn't really matter that much. If you pitch while the starter is
> still fermenting strongly, you may get a shorter lag than if you
> pitched a starter which is "asleep." But not by much. I normally get my
> starter going at least 2 days in advance, and on the morning of brew
> day I put the flask in the refrigerator. This helps most of the yeast
> settle out. Then I decant and pitch only the slurry, while it is still
> cold.
>
> If you pitch an active starter, it's not really possible to decant the
> liquid first, so you end up pitching some funky stuff. Depending on the
> beer you're making and how strongly you aerated the starter to begin
> with, this might not matter. But continually aerated starters get
> pretty sour after several days, I assume due to the oxidation of
> ethanol into acetic acid.
>
> I generally do NOT worry about whether the starter is fully fermented.
> After two days (i.e. 48 hours of fermentation, NOT counting the initial
> lag or the time spent in the fridge) it is generally good enough. Note
> that this applies only to ales, I have no experience making starters of
> lager yeasts.
>
> Scott
Gerard, if you're brewing a wheat beer with the 3068, you'll need a lot of
headspace in the primary, or a blow-off hose, as this yeast likes to go
volcanic.
gw
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Date: 03 Nov 2006 15:52:08
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: could it be done?
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On 2 Nov 2006 13:52:23 -0800, <scott-sp02@neuralnw.com > wrote:
> Gerard Eberlein wrote:
>> Hmmm...it's already clarifying...I mean like when you do a secondary and you
>> can actually see the top layer is a different color as the bottom of the
>> wort and in the very bottom the yeast cake is forming...if this settles out
>> all the way should I refridge this or leave it? I'm planning on pitching
>> Saturday morning/afternoon.
>
> It doesn't really matter that much. If you pitch while the starter is
> still fermenting strongly, you may get a shorter lag than if you
> pitched a starter which is "asleep." But not by much.
I think the difference is less than 30 minutes. IMO, not really worth
worrying about.
> I generally do NOT worry about whether the starter is fully fermented.
> After two days (i.e. 48 hours of fermentation, NOT counting the initial
> lag or the time spent in the fridge) it is generally good enough.
Yeah, the goals for making a starter are different than the goals for making
a beer. For a regular batch of beer you're worried about it being completely
done, what the flavor is, etc... For a starter the only thing that really
matters is that you have a higher cell count. It makes no real difference
if the yeast are actually finished fermenting the starter or not.
John.
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Date: 02 Nov 2006 12:11:28
From: Spitzbuben
Subject: Re: could it be done?
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You know, they are making decaf now... relax man... Like they have been
saying throw some foil on the top and just pitch it when you need to.
The yeast are working. Let them work. Imagine if everytime you tried
to you sat down to do some work, pay bills, yada yada yada, someone
came in with a bull horn and yelled, GET TO WORK AHHHHHHHHHHHH!" \
Be a lazy brewer... It pays...
Spitz
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Date: 03 Nov 2006 15:35:58
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: could it be done?
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On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 12:48:47 -0500, <dormouse@charter.net > wrote:
> Made a starter last night, first one, using 3068 fully activated smackpack 1
> qt water and 3/4 cups 55/45 wheat DME. Boiled, crash cooled the wort, put it
> in a 1/2 gallon growler shook the bejeezus out of it and had activity within
> 10 minutes or so. Kept shaking it every 20 minutes or so till bedtime. Woke
> up this morning was still going but had settled out some yeast, I assume
> it's yeast, shook it to restir the yeast in. Been shaking it every time I
> think of it. The top of the starter keeps dropping krausen after sitting for
> half hour and only bubbles the airlock when I shake it. It hasn't even been
> 24 hours since I pitched. Can it be close to done already? Also I never
> thought of it but even though it's not in direct sunlight, I didn't cloak it
> so it's been in indirect sunlight for maybe 6 hours. Will this affect the
> flavour of my brew i.e skunking? Thanx in advance.
It could be done, starters don't take nearly as long as a full batch. I'd
let it sit for another day or so though in order to get the yeast to settle
out to the bottom. Skunking is a reaction between light and hops, so you
shouldn't have any problems with it in a starter (just malt and yeast).
John.
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