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Main
Date: 19 Aug 2006 08:13:58
From: dutchbrew/chicago
Subject: carbonation school please
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I had my kegged belgian ale in the fridge ... co2 was set for 20 psi
and fridge temp was 38F. the beer had great carbonation and i was
pooring beer which had a nice head 1/2 to 1inch thick. I hooked up my
fridge temp controller and brought the temp up to around 50F, and now
when i poor i get a bunch of foam. Almost all the pour is foam and i
have to wait for it to settle so i can drink the beer and i do not
taste much carbonation at all (am i losing it in the foam?). I had the
co2 set for the same psi and i always leave the gas on and attached, so
what was the phenominon here? I was thinking as the beer warmed it
started absorbing co2 and since the gas was on, it pumped more and more
into the keg and now i have to much carbonation in my beer? Whatever
the case is how can i fix the carbonation so i can get a nice pour like
before.
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Date: 19 Aug 2006 09:34:29
From: Scott Lindner
Subject: Re: carbonation school please
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It works the other way around. As you drop the temperature of the beer you
need to drop the pressure of CO2, or, to maintain the same desired
carbonation level as you bring the temperature up you'll need to bring the
pressure up. There are carbonation tables to help you dial in the precise
carbonation level for the given temperature. Refer to this chart:
http://powersbrewery.home.comcast.net/carbonationchart.html
I suspect the problem isn't your change in temperature but your initial
settings. 38F at 20PSI will bring you t 3.40 volumes of CO2 for your
carbonation level. That's insane. For a nice Belgian I would target 1.5 -
2.0 volumes, but if you like carbonation you could certainly go higher than
that.
How long did you keep the beer at 20PSI and 38F? I find it takes several
weeks for forced carbonation to stabalize on its own.
What is the ID and length of the tubing from your keg to the faucets? Your
kegerator setup could also be causing the foaming.
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 17:51:16
From: Scott Sellers
Subject: Re: carbonation school please
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Scott Lindner <nospam@noemail.com >:
[...]
>I suspect the problem isn't your change in temperature but your
>initial settings. 38F at 20PSI will bring you t 3.40 volumes of
>CO2 for your carbonation level. That's insane. For a nice
>Belgian I would target 1.5 - 2.0 volumes, but if you like
>carbonation you could certainly go higher than that.
Then that 3.4 volumes, warmed to 50F, would want to fill out the
headspace at ~29lbs pressure, which was then the actual serving
pressure vs. what the regulator showed.
Scott S
--
Scott Sellers
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 16:33:59
From: Scott Lindner
Subject: Re: carbonation school please
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> Then that 3.4 volumes, warmed to 50F, would want to fill out the
> headspace at ~29lbs pressure, which was then the actual serving
> pressure vs. what the regulator showed.
True. Carbonation coming out of solution takes a long time. If I were to
guess, the OP didn't wait long enough for head space pressure to be the
problem. His problem is most likely a combination of carbonation and
kegerator setup, with kegerator setup being my primary pick as the culprit.
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Date: 19 Aug 2006 10:29:57
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: carbonation school please
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dutchbrew/chicago wrote:
> I had my kegged belgian ale in the fridge ... co2 was set for 20 psi
> and fridge temp was 38F. the beer had great carbonation and i was
> pooring beer which had a nice head 1/2 to 1inch thick. I hooked up my
> fridge temp controller and brought the temp up to around 50F, and now
> when i poor i get a bunch of foam. Almost all the pour is foam and i
> have to wait for it to settle so i can drink the beer and i do not
> taste much carbonation at all (am i losing it in the foam?). I had the
> co2 set for the same psi and i always leave the gas on and attached, so
> what was the phenominon here? I was thinking as the beer warmed it
> started absorbing co2 and since the gas was on, it pumped more and more
> into the keg and now i have to much carbonation in my beer? Whatever
> the case is how can i fix the carbonation so i can get a nice pour like
> before.
>
Actually, the opposite happened. As the beer warmed, it became capable
of holding LESS CO2, the gas came out of suspension and into the
headspace (keg or glass, thus the foaming).
Also, you'll want to back down on your dispense pressure. 20PSI is WAY
too high. Most people dispense at 10-12 PSI, depending on beer style
(some people will go lower for certain beers).
Finally, be sure that you are using the correct length and diameter of
serving hose. 3/16"id at 5-6 feet usually does the trick for 10-12 PSI.
Note that if you are using 1/4"id, you need a LOT more hose.
Your beer may also be overcarbonated if you kept it long at 38F with 20
PSI on it. This will contribute to foaming. Generally, you'll keep it at
10-12 PSI for a week or so to carbonate.
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!
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Date: 20 Aug 2006 18:09:46
From: dutchbrew/chicago
Subject: Re: carbonation school please
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>
> How long did you keep the beer at 20PSI and 38F? I find it takes several
> weeks for forced carbonation to stabalize on its own.
>
it was set for 20psi for a week and a half. once i brought the
temperature up it took only a day before it got all foamy on me. i
released a bunch of pressure from it friday night and reset it to 15
psi and also brought the temp to 40 and now carbonation and head are
great.
> What is the ID and length of the tubing from your keg to the faucets? Your
> kegerator setup could also be causing the foaming.
my tap tubing is 8' and I use this for my belgians that are highly
carbonated. This worked out nicely for my last 2 belgian batches i had
set for 18 psi at 40F.
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Date: 21 Aug 2006 14:31:16
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: carbonation school please
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On 19 Aug 2006 08:13:58 -0700, <vroomski1@yahoo.com > wrote:
> I had my kegged belgian ale in the fridge ... co2 was set for 20 psi
> and fridge temp was 38F. the beer had great carbonation and i was
> pooring beer which had a nice head 1/2 to 1inch thick. I hooked up my
> fridge temp controller and brought the temp up to around 50F, and now
> when i poor i get a bunch of foam. Almost all the pour is foam and i
> have to wait for it to settle so i can drink the beer and i do not
> taste much carbonation at all (am i losing it in the foam?). I had the
> co2 set for the same psi and i always leave the gas on and attached, so
> what was the phenominon here? I was thinking as the beer warmed it
> started absorbing co2 and since the gas was on, it pumped more and more
> into the keg and now i have to much carbonation in my beer? Whatever
> the case is how can i fix the carbonation so i can get a nice pour like
> before.
It works the other way around. A lot more gas will absorb into the beer
when it's cold. After you warmed it up, CO2 started coming out of the
beer and filling up the headspace. You've probably got a lot more than
20 PSI in the headspace of the keg now. Since your tubing is designed
to balance 20PSI, you're going to get foam when you pour.
I have to guesstimate some of these numbers, because it's off the chart for
the carbonation tables I can find...
38F at 20PSI is around 3.5 volumes of CO2 (a lot). Warming it up to 50F
probably gave you somewhere around 30PSI in the headspace. So, in order to
keep the same carbonation at 50F that you had at 38F, you'll need to add at
least 1.5 times the amount of tubing that you had before (maybe even double it)
and turn your regulator up to 30 PSI or so. IMO, that is a lot of carbonation
though, are you sure you want it that high? The tubing length "rule of thumb"
doesn't work as well when you start talking about really high pressures.
Temp, carbonation, PSI, and tubing length all work together. If you change
any one of those you're going to unbalance your system.
John.
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