canning wort for starters

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Date: 11 Dec 2006 07:13:04
From:
Subject: canning wort for starters

i heard somewhere that it is possible to can wort for starters, and i
was wondering if there is any reason to the contrary. it is somewhat of
a pain in the arse to boil a pint of wort and crash cool it every time
i want to make a starter. it would be great if i could create a large
batch of standardized wort for use in starters, and can it for use as
needed. i can't imagine there being anything problematic with this, but
want to make sure.

Date: 11 Dec 2006 09:30:21
From:
Subject: Re: canning wort for starters

> That is called a "boiling water bath" (BWB) and can only safely be done
> with foods of a certain acidity. Wort is not acid enuf to BWB safely,
> according to the "rules."
>
> To kill botulinum spores, you need 240F, which is why canners are
> necessary (otherwise the spores will survive).
>
> Personally, I'd either pressure can wort or just prepare it when you
> need it. Other people here certainly do otherwise, but botulinum toxin
> is a super WMD and I'd rather be super safe about it.
>
> Derric

ahhh! i totally forgot about the acidity. since i would have to
"reboil" the wort anyway, it appears canning may not be much of a time
saver afterall.

Date: 11 Dec 2006 09:00:52
From:
Subject: Re: canning wort for starters

> Yeast manufacturers instructions aside, a pint is on the small side for
> a starter -- I'd move up to a quart minimum for ales.
>

don't you need to step up to a quart? my starters always begin with a
pint. i thought you needed a larger starter only for higher gravity
beers.

Date: 11 Dec 2006 17:10:39
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: canning wort for starters

On 11 Dec 2006 09:00:52 -0800, <pomoone@excite.com > wrote:
>
>> Yeast manufacturers instructions aside, a pint is on the small side for
>> a starter -- I'd move up to a quart minimum for ales.
>>
>
> don't you need to step up to a quart? my starters always begin with a
> pint. i thought you needed a larger starter only for higher gravity
> beers.

I'd recommend a quart (I do liters, but basically the same thing) starter
for most ales. IMO, a pint is too small. You can go straight from a
tube/pack to a quart starter without any problems, no need to step it up.

John.

Date: 11 Dec 2006 12:52:20
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: canning wort for starters

pomoone@excite.com wrote:
>> Yeast manufacturers instructions aside, a pint is on the small side for
>> a starter -- I'd move up to a quart minimum for ales.
>>
>
> don't you need to step up to a quart? my starters always begin with a
> pint. i thought you needed a larger starter only for higher gravity
> beers.
>

No -- you don't need to step up to a quart, or even two -- you can pitch
directly. A pint is (IMO) too small by 1/2.

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Date: 11 Dec 2006 08:58:30
From:
Subject: Re: canning wort for starters

> I boil 3 lbs of dried malt to make a gallon of wort, which comes out at
> a reasonable gravity, then split it into 12 Mason jars. I do not have a
> pressure canner, so in order to avoid the (slight) possibility of
> botulism, I reboil the starter (to break down the hypothetical toxin)
> when I am ready to use it.
>
> I guess that doesn't address your aversion to boiling the starter, but
> that's what I do.
>
> John

couldn't you fill the mason jars, cap them, submerge them in boiling
water and boil for 20 minutes? wouldn't this eliminate the possibility
of infection and eliminate the need to "reboil" the wort before
pitching the yeast? i make a lot of applesauce, which is done in this
manner. when you boil the filled jars, they sanitize and seal in one
step.

Date: 11 Dec 2006 17:19:16
From: Derric
Subject: Re: canning wort for starters

> couldn't you fill the mason jars, cap them, submerge them in boiling
> water and boil for 20 minutes? wouldn't this eliminate the possibility
> of infection and eliminate the need to "reboil" the wort before
> pitching the yeast? i make a lot of applesauce, which is done in this
> manner. when you boil the filled jars, they sanitize and seal in one
> step.

That is called a "boiling water bath" (BWB) and can only safely be done
with foods of a certain acidity. Wort is not acid enuf to BWB safely,
according to the "rules."

To kill botulinum spores, you need 240F, which is why canners are
necessary (otherwise the spores will survive).

Personally, I'd either pressure can wort or just prepare it when you
need it. Other people here certainly do otherwise, but botulinum toxin
is a super WMD and I'd rather be super safe about it.

Derric

Date: 12 Dec 2006 22:00:41
From: Boll Weevil Brewery
Subject: Re: canning wort for starters

"Derric" <derric1961@removethis.yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:12nr4ok96g68974@corp.supernews.com...
>
>> couldn't you fill the mason jars, cap them, submerge them in boiling
>> water and boil for 20 minutes? wouldn't this eliminate the possibility
>> of infection and eliminate the need to "reboil" the wort before
>> pitching the yeast? i make a lot of applesauce, which is done in this
>> manner. when you boil the filled jars, they sanitize and seal in one
>> step.
>
> That is called a "boiling water bath" (BWB) and can only safely be done
> with foods of a certain acidity. Wort is not acid enuf to BWB safely,
> according to the "rules."
>
> To kill botulinum spores, you need 240F, which is why canners are
> necessary (otherwise the spores will survive).
>
> Personally, I'd either pressure can wort or just prepare it when you
> need it. Other people here certainly do otherwise, but botulinum toxin
> is a super WMD and I'd rather be super safe about it.
>
> Derric

I've always heard that nothing that can hurt you (kill you?) can live in
beer...so if that's true, even if the starter had botulinum in it, wouldn't
it be killed when the starter was pitched and the beer "created" ? Or, was
that just another brewing myth?

Ricky

Date: 12 Dec 2006 22:26:19
From: Derric
Subject: Re: canning wort for starters

> I've always heard that nothing that can hurt you (kill you?) can live in
> beer...so if that's true, even if the starter had botulinum in it, wouldn't
> it be killed when the starter was pitched and the beer "created" ? Or, was
> that just another brewing myth?

It's not the bacteria that hurts you - they are all around us... however,
in certain conditions (anaerobic, etc.) it will produce the toxin.
The toxin is one of the most deadly substances known.

I think that the adage that "nothing that can live in beer will hurt
(kill) you" is probably still accurate... but the above would be like
pouring poison in the wort and expecting it to ferment out.

HOWEVER ... the toxin is rendered harmless by boiling for 10 minutes
(hence the practice of boiling most (all) home canned foods for 10
minutes). However, even a tiny amount of liquid with the toxin in it
would be enough to kill you (so you had better dispose of the container
promptly and effectively and not lick your fingers! :) In your example,
it wouldn't be boiled, so the toxin wouldn't be destroyed.

I think there is still some question as to whether the botulinum
bacteria would live/reproduce/thrive in wort... but reading about bot.
on the 'Net seems to indicate it is pretty hardy and lives in a lot of
different media. I don't want to be the one to test its viability in
wort in my basement (you may only get to do one test)!

Derric

Date: 12 Dec 2006 15:24:58
From: MattMika
Subject: Re: canning wort for starters

Date: 12 Dec 2006 16:23:06
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: canning wort for starters

Boll Weevil Brewery wrote:
> "Derric" <derric1961@removethis.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:12nr4ok96g68974@corp.supernews.com...
>>> couldn't you fill the mason jars, cap them, submerge them in boiling
>>> water and boil for 20 minutes? wouldn't this eliminate the possibility
>>> of infection and eliminate the need to "reboil" the wort before
>>> pitching the yeast? i make a lot of applesauce, which is done in this
>>> manner. when you boil the filled jars, they sanitize and seal in one
>>> step.
>> That is called a "boiling water bath" (BWB) and can only safely be done
>> with foods of a certain acidity. Wort is not acid enuf to BWB safely,
>> according to the "rules."
>>
>> To kill botulinum spores, you need 240F, which is why canners are
>> necessary (otherwise the spores will survive).
>>
>> Personally, I'd either pressure can wort or just prepare it when you
>> need it. Other people here certainly do otherwise, but botulinum toxin
>> is a super WMD and I'd rather be super safe about it.
>>
>> Derric
>
> I've always heard that nothing that can hurt you (kill you?) can live in
> beer...so if that's true, even if the starter had botulinum in it, wouldn't
> it be killed when the starter was pitched and the beer "created" ? Or, was
> that just another brewing myth?
>

Not exactly. Basically pathogens won't develop (or are not very likely
to develop) in finished beer -- but that doesn't mean that dosing your
beer with pathogens is particularly safe.

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Date: 11 Dec 2006 14:02:26
From: Dan Logcher
Subject: Re: canning wort for starters

pomoone@excite.com wrote:
>>I boil 3 lbs of dried malt to make a gallon of wort, which comes out at
>>a reasonable gravity, then split it into 12 Mason jars. I do not have a
>>pressure canner, so in order to avoid the (slight) possibility of
>>botulism, I reboil the starter (to break down the hypothetical toxin)
>>when I am ready to use it.
>>
>>I guess that doesn't address your aversion to boiling the starter, but
>>that's what I do.
>>
>>John
>
>
> couldn't you fill the mason jars, cap them, submerge them in boiling
> water and boil for 20 minutes? wouldn't this eliminate the possibility
> of infection and eliminate the need to "reboil" the wort before
> pitching the yeast? i make a lot of applesauce, which is done in this
> manner. when you boil the filled jars, they sanitize and seal in one
> step.

Can't you just pour the boil starter wort into the mason jar and seal
with sanitized caps? You'd get a good vacuum in there as it cools.

--
Dan

Date: 11 Dec 2006 13:45:39
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: canning wort for starters

Dan Logcher wrote:
> pomoone@excite.com wrote:
>>> I boil 3 lbs of dried malt to make a gallon of wort, which comes out at
>>> a reasonable gravity, then split it into 12 Mason jars. I do not have a
>>> pressure canner, so in order to avoid the (slight) possibility of
>>> botulism, I reboil the starter (to break down the hypothetical toxin)
>>> when I am ready to use it.
>>>
>>> I guess that doesn't address your aversion to boiling the starter, but
>>> that's what I do.
>>>
>>> John
>>
>>
>> couldn't you fill the mason jars, cap them, submerge them in boiling
>> water and boil for 20 minutes? wouldn't this eliminate the possibility
>> of infection and eliminate the need to "reboil" the wort before
>> pitching the yeast? i make a lot of applesauce, which is done in this
>> manner. when you boil the filled jars, they sanitize and seal in one
>> step.
>
> Can't you just pour the boil starter wort into the mason jar and seal
> with sanitized caps? You'd get a good vacuum in there as it cools.
>

The idea is that while boiling kills most living organisms, it doesn't
kill spores -- you need higher temps for that (thus the advocacy of
pressure canning). In particular, boiling doesn't kill botulism spores.
I think there's some controversy as to whether wort is a friendly enough
environment for botulism spores to develop into live bugs; I just
pressure can anyway and don't worry about it.

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Date: 11 Dec 2006 19:22:15
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: canning wort for starters

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 14:02:26 -0500, <dlogcher*xspam*@comcast.net > wrote:
> Can't you just pour the boil starter wort into the mason jar and seal
> with sanitized caps? You'd get a good vacuum in there as it cools.

The big difference is that in order to do this without the need to reboil
the wort when you want to use it, everything has to be done under sterile
conditions, not just sanitized ones. That makes the procedures a lot less
forgiving. You basically have to use a pressure canner (unless you've got
access to equipment that most people don't have at home... autoclave, etc).

If you're going to plan on reboiling the wort when you want to use it, then
your method should work fine. In that case, all you need are sanitized
containers.

John.

Date: 11 Dec 2006 09:56:32
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: canning wort for starters

pomoone@excite.com wrote:
> i heard somewhere that it is possible to can wort for starters, and i
> was wondering if there is any reason to the contrary. it is somewhat of
> a pain in the arse to boil a pint of wort and crash cool it every time
> i want to make a starter. it would be great if i could create a large
> batch of standardized wort for use in starters, and can it for use as
> needed. i can't imagine there being anything problematic with this, but
> want to make sure.
>

Yeah -- I usually save some leftover in quart jars and pressure can. The
canned wort will not need refrigeration, so it can be stored anywhere.

Yeast manufacturers instructions aside, a pint is on the small side for
a starter -- I'd move up to a quart minimum for ales.

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Date: 11 Dec 2006 07:54:54
From: John Krehbiel
Subject: Re: canning wort for starters

pomoone@excite.com wrote:
> i heard somewhere that it is possible to can wort for starters, and i
> was wondering if there is any reason to the contrary. it is somewhat of
> a pain in the arse to boil a pint of wort and crash cool it every time
> i want to make a starter. it would be great if i could create a large
> batch of standardized wort for use in starters, and can it for use as
> needed. i can't imagine there being anything problematic with this, but
> want to make sure.

I boil 3 lbs of dried malt to make a gallon of wort, which comes out at
a reasonable gravity, then split it into 12 Mason jars. I do not have a
pressure canner, so in order to avoid the (slight) possibility of
botulism, I reboil the starter (to break down the hypothetical toxin)
when I am ready to use it.

I guess that doesn't address your aversion to boiling the starter, but
that's what I do.

John

Date: 11 Dec 2006 16:52:29
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: canning wort for starters

On 11 Dec 2006 07:54:54 -0800, <jkrehbielp@gmail.com > wrote:
>
> pomoone@excite.com wrote:
>> i heard somewhere that it is possible to can wort for starters, and i
>> was wondering if there is any reason to the contrary. it is somewhat of
>> a pain in the arse to boil a pint of wort and crash cool it every time
>> i want to make a starter. it would be great if i could create a large
>> batch of standardized wort for use in starters, and can it for use as
>> needed. i can't imagine there being anything problematic with this, but
>> want to make sure.
>
> I boil 3 lbs of dried malt to make a gallon of wort, which comes out at
> a reasonable gravity

Unless I'm missing something, 3 lbs of DME in 1 gallon gives you a SG
of 1.135, which is way too high for a starter. You want something like
a SG of 1.040, basically 1 lbs of DME in 1 gallon of water.

John.

Date: 11 Dec 2006 12:54:18
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: canning wort for starters

John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> On 11 Dec 2006 07:54:54 -0800, <jkrehbielp@gmail.com> wrote:
>> pomoone@excite.com wrote:
>>> i heard somewhere that it is possible to can wort for starters, and i
>>> was wondering if there is any reason to the contrary. it is somewhat of
>>> a pain in the arse to boil a pint of wort and crash cool it every time
>>> i want to make a starter. it would be great if i could create a large
>>> batch of standardized wort for use in starters, and can it for use as
>>> needed. i can't imagine there being anything problematic with this, but
>>> want to make sure.
>> I boil 3 lbs of dried malt to make a gallon of wort, which comes out at
>> a reasonable gravity
>
> Unless I'm missing something, 3 lbs of DME in 1 gallon gives you a SG
> of 1.135, which is way too high for a starter. You want something like
> a SG of 1.040, basically 1 lbs of DME in 1 gallon of water.

Maybe he meant 3 cups?

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Date: 11 Dec 2006 09:47:04
From: hankus
Subject: Re: canning wort for starters

I prefer to make a wortsicle.I add a bit more grain/water to the
mash,getting a larger boil volumea boil and after taking off what I want to
ferment,I pour the rest including some of the junk at the bottom into a
large pitcher which I cover and put in the frig.Next AM the trash has
settled out and I gently pour the liquid on top into quart ziplock freezer
bags and freeze it.I thaw it and boil X 11 " as a starter

--
Thanks
Hank

Date: 11 Dec 2006 12:49:25
From: John Krehbiel
Subject: Re: canning wort for starters

John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> On 11 Dec 2006 07:54:54 -0800, <jkrehbielp@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > pomoone@excite.com wrote:
> >> i heard somewhere that it is possible to can wort for starters, and i
> >> was wondering if there is any reason to the contrary. it is somewhat of
> >> a pain in the arse to boil a pint of wort and crash cool it every time
> >> i want to make a starter. it would be great if i could create a large
> >> batch of standardized wort for use in starters, and can it for use as
> >> needed. i can't imagine there being anything problematic with this, but
> >> want to make sure.
> >
> > I boil 3 lbs of dried malt to make a gallon of wort, which comes out at
> > a reasonable gravity
>
> Unless I'm missing something, 3 lbs of DME in 1 gallon gives you a SG
> of 1.135, which is way too high for a starter. You want something like
> a SG of 1.040, basically 1 lbs of DME in 1 gallon of water.
>
>
> John.

Oops. I meant 12 quarts, which would be 3 gallons. Perhaps I should
have realized that 1 gallon wouldn't fill 12 mason jars. :-)

Date: 12 Dec 2006 17:22:11
From: MDixon
Subject: Re: canning wort for starters

Date: 12 Dec 2006 14:21:56
From: MattMika
Subject: Re: canning wort for starters

On 11 Dec 2006 07:13:04 -0800, pomoone@excite.com wrote:

>i heard somewhere that it is possible to can wort for starters, and i
>was wondering if there is any reason to the contrary. it is somewhat of
>a pain in the arse to boil a pint of wort and crash cool it every time
>i want to make a starter. it would be great if i could create a large
>batch of standardized wort for use in starters, and can it for use as
>needed. i can't imagine there being anything problematic with this, but
>want to make sure.

It works great. Theres some initial work, but very easy once the
starters are made.

I can my leftover wort and/or seconds in pint jars because my canner
only takes 5 pint jars. I really need to get a bigger canner that
takes quart jars, but pints work fine.

I dump the yeast vial right into the pint jar and re cover with the
lid, no ring. I find I get activity in the primary in anywhere from
6-8 hours(maybe shorter, I dont pay that much attn) with a pint
starter and thats alot better than pitching a vial alone. I have on
ocassion used two pints, but I've never had an infection yet(knock on
wood) so dont mind the minimal lapse after pitching. If I remember
correctly I get activity in about 2-3hrs with a 2 pint/quart starter.

MattMika
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the
tranquillity of servitude better than the
animating contest of freedom, depart from us in
peace. We ask not your counsel or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you.
May your chains rest lightly upon you and may
posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams

Date: 13 Dec 2006 07:02:01
From:
Subject: Re: canning wort for starters

why go through the trouble of canning? it requires equipment that you
don't need for any other aspect of homebrewing. Papazian has
instructions in the Joy of Homebrew for making sterile wort for just
this purpose - and he just bottles it like any other homebrew. (Just
make sure your bottles are clearly labeled!)

Mike

pomoone@excite.com wrote:
> i heard somewhere that it is possible to can wort for starters, and i
> was wondering if there is any reason to the contrary. it is somewhat of
> a pain in the arse to boil a pint of wort and crash cool it every time
> i want to make a starter. it would be great if i could create a large
> batch of standardized wort for use in starters, and can it for use as
> needed. i can't imagine there being anything problematic with this, but
> want to make sure.

Date: 13 Dec 2006 12:26:56
From: hankus
Subject: Re: canning wort for starters

I agree...why can? Back to my earlier post-just drain off the liquid from
what is left in the boil pot and FREEZE it in a baggie..OR get a canner,AND
get some jars,AND boil them and "preserve" it-and how much time/money will
that require?Seems to me plopping it in a Freezable ziplock bag is a lot
easier.Granted, I AM a guy who is constantly fussing around with beer making
equipment but even for me,who spends more time redisigning stuff than
drinking beer,canning seems the L-O-N-G way around.
***BUT-No matter how U save this wort,U must boil it >11" unless U are
willing to literally bet your life on your canning technique. Boiling it for
>11" will kill any botulinum toxin.

--
Thanks
Hank

--
Thanks
Hank
<splendidmike@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1166022121.272236.147690@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
> why go through the trouble of canning? it requires equipment that you
> don't need for any other aspect of homebrewing. Papazian has
> instructions in the Joy of Homebrew for making sterile wort for just
> this purpose - and he just bottles it like any other homebrew. (Just
> make sure your bottles are clearly labeled!)
>
> Mike
>
> pomoone@excite.com wrote:
>> i heard somewhere that it is possible to can wort for starters, and i
>> was wondering if there is any reason to the contrary. it is somewhat of
>> a pain in the arse to boil a pint of wort and crash cool it every time
>> i want to make a starter. it would be great if i could create a large
>> batch of standardized wort for use in starters, and can it for use as
>> needed. i can't imagine there being anything problematic with this, but
>> want to make sure.
>

Date: 13 Dec 2006 15:12:13
From: MattMika
Subject: Re: canning wort for starters

On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 12:26:56 -0600, "hankus" <hbienert@cox.net > wrote:

>I agree...why can? Back to my earlier post-just drain off the liquid from
>what is left in the boil pot and FREEZE it in a baggie..OR get a canner,AND
>get some jars,AND boil them and "preserve" it-and how much time/money will
>that require?Seems to me plopping it in a Freezable ziplock bag is a lot
>easier.Granted, I AM a guy who is constantly fussing around with beer making
>equipment but even for me,who spends more time redisigning stuff than
>drinking beer,canning seems the L-O-N-G way around.
>***BUT-No matter how U save this wort,U must boil it >11" unless U are
>willing to literally bet your life on your canning technique. Boiling it for
> >11" will kill any botulinum toxin.
>
>--
>Thanks
>Hank

The thing is, I dont have to do shit but open a jar and dump in the
yeast when I want to make a starter. You have to defrost, boil, cool
and transfer before pitching.

For me its all about the convenience of pitching the starter. All my
work is done on brew days.

Canning wort is not difficult at all and jars are cheap and reusable,
lids and rings are real cheap.

The Process:
1) Soak lids in hot water for a few minutes.
2) Pour wort into jars.
3) Put lids on jars.
4) Put a little water and jars in canner and affix lid.
5) Turn on stove, purge airspace for 10min(let it steam), affix weight
gauge and let canner go for 15min @15lbs.
6) Let canner cool, remove jars, tighten lids and put in my cupboard.
7)Two days before brew day, open a jar, pitch yeast and re cover.

Betting on my life? Maybe, but hundreds of millions of people do
everyday. Have you ever consumed canned fruit, olives, fish, etc? Did
you boil it? Even commercial canneries have been known to distribute
botulism tainted canned goods.

MattMika
Matt Mika

"These animals evacuate ethyl alcohol from their bowels and carbon dioxide from their urinary organs. Thus, one can observe how a specially lighter fluid is exuded from the anus and rises vertically whereas a stream of carbon dioxide is ejected at very short intervals from enormously long genitales."

Justus Freiherr von Liebig - 1839

Date: 13 Dec 2006 16:44:47
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: canning wort for starters

MattMika wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 12:26:56 -0600, "hankus" <hbienert@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> I agree...why can? Back to my earlier post-just drain off the liquid from
>> what is left in the boil pot and FREEZE it in a baggie..OR get a canner,AND
>> get some jars,AND boil them and "preserve" it-and how much time/money will
>> that require?Seems to me plopping it in a Freezable ziplock bag is a lot
>> easier.Granted, I AM a guy who is constantly fussing around with beer making
>> equipment but even for me,who spends more time redisigning stuff than
>> drinking beer,canning seems the L-O-N-G way around.
>> ***BUT-No matter how U save this wort,U must boil it >11" unless U are
>> willing to literally bet your life on your canning technique. Boiling it for
>>> 11" will kill any botulinum toxin.
>> --
>> Thanks
>> Hank
>
> The thing is, I dont have to do shit but open a jar and dump in the
> yeast when I want to make a starter. You have to defrost, boil, cool
> and transfer before pitching.
>
> For me its all about the convenience of pitching the starter. All my
> work is done on brew days.
>
> Canning wort is not difficult at all and jars are cheap and reusable,
> lids and rings are real cheap.
>
> The Process:
> 1) Soak lids in hot water for a few minutes.
> 2) Pour wort into jars.
> 3) Put lids on jars.
> 4) Put a little water and jars in canner and affix lid.
> 5) Turn on stove, purge airspace for 10min(let it steam), affix weight
> gauge and let canner go for 15min @15lbs.
> 6) Let canner cool, remove jars, tighten lids and put in my cupboard.
> 7)Two days before brew day, open a jar, pitch yeast and re cover.
>
> Betting on my life? Maybe, but hundreds of millions of people do
> everyday. Have you ever consumed canned fruit, olives, fish, etc? Did
> you boil it? Even commercial canneries have been known to distribute
> botulism tainted canned goods.

Pressure canning is quite safe -- there are only 30 or so cases of
food-borne botulism poisoning per year. If you screw it up, it's easy to
tell you screwed it up as well.

I would definitely pressure can, though, and not use a boiling water
bath -- the pH of unfermented wort is around 5.2 - 5.5 which is well
within the range that Clostridium botulinum likes. A single boiling will
not kill Clostridium botulinum spores. You should also check the wort
when you pitch it for off smells, and of course there should be a tight
vacuum on the jar when opened.

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Date: 14 Dec 2006 16:25:45
From: Derric
Subject: Re: canning wort for starters

> I agree...why can? Back to my earlier post-just drain off the liquid from
> what is left in the boil pot and FREEZE it in a baggie..OR get a canner,AND
> get some jars,AND boil them and "preserve" it-and how much time/money will
> that require?

Freezing is an excellent way too. But a lot of us already have the
canning setup... so there is no money outlay. (There is more cost in
powering the freezer than sitting a jar of wort on a closet shelf).

I just want to make sure that future readers of these threads understand
that Boiling Water Bath (BWB) processing of wort has NOT been proven to be
safe and its PH puts it in the danger range (it's not as acid as jelly,
tomato sauce, etc). I know a lot of people do it, or have done it,
and I don't know of any bad outcomes... but it is clear that pressure
canning avoids any risk.

Derric

Date: 14 Dec 2006 07:36:29
From: MDixon
Subject: Re: canning wort for starters

hankus wrote:
> ***BUT-No matter how U save this wort,U must boil it >11" unless U are
> willing to literally bet your life on your canning technique. Boiling it for
> >11" will kill any botulinum toxin.
>

Bet my life on a canning technique...heck yes...pressure canning will
rid you of anything, no need to boil, open the jar and proceed. If you
for some reason do not believe that pressure canning will kill the
bacteria then you must not believe that boiling the wort will either
since pressure canning operates at a much higher temp that boiling.

Cheers,
Mike

Date: 13 Dec 2006 12:42:10
From: Jeff
Subject: Re: canning wort for starters

hankus wrote:
> ***BUT-No matter how U save this wort,U must boil it >11" unless U are
> willing to literally bet your life on your canning technique. Boiling it for
> >11" will kill any botulinum toxin.

1 hour at 10lbs processing? It's as good as it gets. No need to reboil
it.

Yes, freezing is great, but canning saves you from having to boil it on
starter-pitching day. I canned a few just to try it (have all the
equipment, why not use it?). I'll probably can some more once these are
gone. Have some bags of wort in the freezer too.

I highly recommend using Saaz for flavor hops to accent the spicy
character of the botulism.

--Jeff