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Date: 12 Sep 2006 12:15:20
From: The Green Potato
Subject: brewing career question
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Hi:
If one were to take/pass the $6,000 course at http://www.abgbrew.com/, would
that qualify one for a brewing position? I mean, would that land them a job?
Sure, the Siebel Institute courses would, but for the money would ABG
suffice?
Thanks!
TGP
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 17:22:10
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: brewing career question
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On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:15:20 -0500, <a@a.a > wrote:
> Hi:
>
> If one were to take/pass the $6,000 course at http://www.abgbrew.com/, would
> that qualify one for a brewing position? I mean, would that land them a job?
>
> Sure, the Siebel Institute courses would, but for the money would ABG
> suffice?
Slightly off topic to your question, but this gets asked quite often. Are
you really, really sure that you want a career in brewing? Most homebrewers
have dreamed at one time or another of starting their own brewery, but the
reality of doing it commercially is far different than what you do in your
kitchen. I've heard it said several times that the best way to ruin a
fun hobby is to start doing it professionally.
Brewing as a career involves lots of long hours, hard manual labor, and
pretty low pay. If you're sure this is something you want to do, then the
best advice I've heard for getting into the business is to go to your
local microbrewery and volunteer to help them out. You'll get some
valuable experience that can later go on a resume, plus you'll get a chance
to see what it's really like doing it as a job before you shell out a few
thousand dollars for one of the education programs.
If you're looking for more detailed advice and this is your first time
in this newsgroup, one thing to be aware of is that this group is made up
almost exclusively of amateur homebrewers. If you're looking for a forum
of professional brewers to get career advice from, this is probably not
the place you want.
John.
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Date: 13 Sep 2006 01:34:41
From: Brian Foster
Subject: Re: brewing career question
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I was in a great brewpub by DFW airport (Big Buck, right next to Bass Pro
Shop). The manager was nice enough to show me the entire brewing operation
when I told him I was a new homebrewer. They have >$1.2M tied up in brewing
equipment and they make quite a bit of beer. I think they make pretty good
beer too:)
I asked him about becoming a brewmaster and he was not encouraging. He told
me that the pay sucks, the hours are long, and there guys lined up to take
the job. He was not being negative, just answering some rather open ended
questions I was feeding him.
I had dreams of opening a brewpub and after talking to him they were quickly
dashed.
Brewpubs don't do well here in TX. We have only one left in Houston, one in
San Antonio, a couple in Austin, and a handful in Dallas.
Unfortunately Texas beer tastes tend to run toward the Bud light and Miller
light type of beer.
That's actually one of my inspirations to start homebrewing.
"The Green Potato" <a@a.a > wrote in message
news:c7518$4506eafa$18d67fa0$18343@KNOLOGY.NET...
> Hi:
>
> If one were to take/pass the $6,000 course at http://www.abgbrew.com/,
> would that qualify one for a brewing position? I mean, would that land
> them a job?
>
> Sure, the Siebel Institute courses would, but for the money would ABG
> suffice?
>
> Thanks!
>
> TGP
>
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Date: 13 Sep 2006 09:49:55
From: Mark R
Subject: Re: brewing career question
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"Brian Foster" <brianfoster@houston.rr.com > wrote in message
> Brewpubs don't do well here in TX. We have only one left in Houston, one
in
> San Antonio, a couple in Austin, and a handful in Dallas.
> Unfortunately Texas beer tastes tend to run toward the Bud light and
Miller
> light type of beer.
> That's actually one of my inspirations to start homebrewing.
I haven't googled but there has to be more than one. I live just down the
street from BJ's on Bay Area Blvd. And you have to give us a chance, what do
you expect from a state that believes High School Foot ball is more
important than a diploma? That still has "blue laws" on the books but
suspends them between 12 and 6 pm on a Sunday so that you can get more beer
at half time when you run out because you can't plan ahead? And we do have
the success of Shiner and Saint Arnold's that shows we are starting to move
out of the stone age. :-)
Mark R
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Date: 13 Sep 2006 15:30:48
From: Brian Foster
Subject: Re: brewing career question
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BJ's stopped brewing their own some months ago. All their micro brews are
coming from St Arnolds. I was in the store, near you, about a month ago and
they had all their brewing equipment up for an Auction.
2 Rows is the only Brew Pub left in town.
http://tworows.com/locations/houston.php
It is a sad state of affairs for beer in TX (and specifically Houston).
That's why we brew our own. Shiner sucks IMHO, and so that leaves us with St
Arnolds. Pretty decent beer but one brewery for the 4th largest city in the
country? That dog just don't hunt......
"Mark R" <marknorayspam@noev1spam.net > wrote in message
news:12gg6jgr4foodab@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Brian Foster" <brianfoster@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
>
>> Brewpubs don't do well here in TX. We have only one left in Houston, one
> in
>> San Antonio, a couple in Austin, and a handful in Dallas.
>> Unfortunately Texas beer tastes tend to run toward the Bud light and
> Miller
>> light type of beer.
>> That's actually one of my inspirations to start homebrewing.
>
> I haven't googled but there has to be more than one. I live just down the
> street from BJ's on Bay Area Blvd. And you have to give us a chance, what
> do
> you expect from a state that believes High School Foot ball is more
> important than a diploma? That still has "blue laws" on the books but
> suspends them between 12 and 6 pm on a Sunday so that you can get more
> beer
> at half time when you run out because you can't plan ahead? And we do have
> the success of Shiner and Saint Arnold's that shows we are starting to
> move
> out of the stone age. :-)
>
> Mark R
>
>
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Date: 15 Sep 2006 13:50:06
From: Mark R
Subject: Re: brewing career question
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"Brian Foster" <brianfoster@houston.rr.com > wrote in message
news:IuVNg.823$vD2.171@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> BJ's stopped brewing their own some months ago. All their micro brews are
> coming from St Arnolds. I was in the store, near you, about a month ago
and
> they had all their brewing equipment up for an Auction.
That's a shame bout St. A's on tap isn't a bad substitute. It's been a while
since I was in there. Teenage daughter graduating and off to college, 30
year old house falling down around my ears, rebuild the engine in SWMBO car
at only 80k miles, yada, yada, yada.... :-(
Mark R
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 18:14:40
From:
Subject: Re: brewing career question
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> Brewing as a career involves lots of long hours, hard manual labor, and
> pretty low pay.
I figured that out about 5 min into my research about being a
commercial brewer. I figured I'd rather have a hobby I enjoy than a
job I'd most likely grow to hate. I got a job in computers twenty
something years ago because I was good with those kinds of things and
found them fun. Now I do it at work and home simply as a thing that
has to be done rather than because I want to. I'm still a fairly
talented systems troubleshooter but I bet it's been 10 years since I
just decided to build ANOTHER netwok in the basement just to test out
some harebrained idea because it sounded fun. Now it's work. All that
said I'd love to have a 2-3 bbl pilot/test system at home. :)
>
> John.
Bryan
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Date: 12 Sep 2006 18:46:14
From: Phil
Subject: Re: brewing career question
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On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:15:20 -0500, "The Green Potato" <a@a.a > wrote:
>Hi:
>
>If one were to take/pass the $6,000 course at http://www.abgbrew.com/, would
>that qualify one for a brewing position? I mean, would that land them a job?
>
>Sure, the Siebel Institute courses would, but for the money would ABG
>suffice?
Would it qualify you to work in a brewery? Probably.
Would it guarantee you a job? Not at all....
You have to remember that 99.999999% of the breweries in this country
are very small operations. Most of the ones I know are two or three
man operations. In order to for you to get a job there, someone has
to leave his. And they rarely do because they know that jobs are
scarce.
Phil
======
visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website:
http://www.hbd.org/nychg
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Date: 14 Sep 2006 20:08:43
From: alebrewer
Subject: Re: brewing career question
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Brian Foster wrote:
> BJ's stopped brewing their own some months ago. All their micro brews are
> coming from St Arnolds. I was in the store, near you, about a month ago and
> they had all their brewing equipment up for an Auction.
>
> 2 Rows is the only Brew Pub left in town.
> http://tworows.com/locations/houston.php
>
> It is a sad state of affairs for beer in TX (and specifically Houston).
> That's why we brew our own. Shiner sucks IMHO, and so that leaves us with St
> Arnolds. Pretty decent beer but one brewery for the 4th largest city in the
> country? That dog just don't hunt......
>
You must lead a very sheltered life. I find the quality and variety of
beer available in Houston to be, frankly, amazing. I do a fair amount
of traveling and I can get more varieties of beer in my neighborhood
grocery store than nearly any store in Nashville, Memphis, Lousiville,
or Atlanta. If I go to one of the "Core" grocery stores (Signature
Krogers, Super HEB's, etc...), I can find nearly as many as any of the
"beverage superstores" in any of those other cities (maybe more, or
better quality). Just about any Spec's liquor stores will have not
only the big German names (Paulaner, St. Paulie, HackerPschorr,
etc...), but a half dozen Belgians, English Ales (and nearly every
other European country), as well as nearly every craft brew made
between New Orleans and San Antonio, not to mention the "National Craft
Brews" (New Belgium, Dogfish Head, Flying Dog etc...). Not only will
they have them, they'll usually be relatively fresh. And just about
anywhere in Houston, you're not 5 miles from a Specs.
Oh, btw, there are two Brewries in Houston, the one you mentioned off
290 and another down on I-10 on the east side. While you might not
like the styles that I-10 brewery produces, they _are_ the most
successful brewery on the planet.
As for Shiner, they have a saying here in Texas, "Nothin's Finer than a
Shiner". I'd be interested in hearing what you think is better. While
I can't talk about their Blonde, Light, or Hefewiessen (I haven't had
any of those offerings as I don't really like those styles--I didn't
like the Celis White, either), I can't think of a better example of
Bock brewed in the US. Same for their Koelsch (yeah, St A's Lawnmower
is mighty good, but name another). Their "96" (a limited-edition
Marzen offering from last year) was so much better than St. Arnold's
oberfest that they shouldn't even be compared (unless St. A has
changed their O'fest; the last 6 pack of that I bought I couldn't even
finish). A Shiner isn't the "perfect beer", but because of their
success, I can go down to the neighborhood gas-station/mini-mart and
pick up a six-pack of a Koelsh. Show me anywhere in Tennessee,
Kentucky, or Georgia (Alabama or Mississippi, too, for that matter) you
can do that. I have a brother in Knoxville who has trouble even
finding an example of that style in the whole city. Yes, as a
commercial brewery, they have to keep their recipes the same year after
year so they don't lose the core base they have to have to keep their
volume up. They also are all lagers. While I'll grant you there are a
lot of craft brews out there, I most certianly wouldn't say that
Shiner's offernings "Suck". And, at least in Houston, you can get a
Shiner nearly anywhere (heck, you can even get it at Minute Maid park
from the beer vendor), and it will be fresher than anything you get
from Colorado (or Deleware?).
Sorry to rant, but I just can't see how you can rag on Shiner unless
you just don't like any commercial beer, in which case, they all suck.
ab
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Date: 15 Sep 2006 14:03:58
From: Joel
Subject: Re: brewing career question
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alebrewer <alebrewer@wt.net > wrote:
>As for Shiner, they have a saying here in Texas, "Nothin's Finer than a
>Shiner". I'd be interested in hearing what you think is better.
Just about anything. Seriously.
>While
>I can't talk about their Blonde, Light, or Hefewiessen (I haven't had
>any of those offerings as I don't really like those styles--I didn't
>like the Celis White, either), I can't think of a better example of
>Bock brewed in the US.
Sorry, but that's damning with faint praise. A proper German-style
Bock doesn't have a pronounced corn flavor. Shiner Bock certainly
does.
I can, however, name a most excellent bock brewed in the US.
St. Boisterous, from Victory Brewing Company. Wonderful beer,
brewed with German hops and malts.
>Sorry to rant, but I just can't see how you can rag on Shiner unless
>you just don't like any commercial beer, in which case, they all suck.
Some of us don't like the flavor of corn. Even A-B's "bock"
that they brewed and sold in Texas as direct competition to
Shiner tasted better to me-- cleaner, without that nasty corn
flavor.
--
Joel Plutchak "Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and
plutchak@[...] sometimes I think we're not. In either case the idea
is quite staggering." - Arthur C. Clarke
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Date: 15 Sep 2006 13:44:08
From: Mark R
Subject: Re: brewing career question
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"Joel" <plutchak@see.headers > wrote in message
>
> Some of us don't like the flavor of corn. Even A-B's "bock"
> that they brewed and sold in Texas as direct competition to
> Shiner tasted better to me-- cleaner, without that nasty corn
> flavor.
Now that I brew my own I've found I'm much more sensitive to the taste of
corn. A-B's Ziegen Bock is passable and while I didn't claim Shiner was
great beer or on a level with St. Arnold's, I think that the success of both
of those breweries when we have A-B in town as well, indicates that we are
starting to wake up to the taste of micro brews here in TX. And there was
some talk of St. A's expanding to Austin and/or Dallas with new breweries.
That's all, not trying to start any wars here. :-)
Mark R
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Date: 15 Sep 2006 13:13:07
From: Brian Foster
Subject: Re: brewing career question
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"alebrewer" <alebrewer@wt.net > wrote in message
news:1158289723.891805.291990@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Brian Foster wrote:
>> BJ's stopped brewing their own some months ago. All their micro brews are
>> coming from St Arnolds. I was in the store, near you, about a month ago
>> and
>> they had all their brewing equipment up for an Auction.
>>
>> 2 Rows is the only Brew Pub left in town.
>> http://tworows.com/locations/houston.php
>>
>> It is a sad state of affairs for beer in TX (and specifically Houston).
>> That's why we brew our own. Shiner sucks IMHO, and so that leaves us with
>> St
>> Arnolds. Pretty decent beer but one brewery for the 4th largest city in
>> the
>> country? That dog just don't hunt......
>>
>
> You must lead a very sheltered life. I find the quality and variety of
> beer available in Houston to be, frankly, amazing. I do a fair amount
> of traveling and I can get more varieties of beer in my neighborhood
> grocery store than nearly any store in Nashville, Memphis, Lousiville,
> or Atlanta. If I go to one of the "Core" grocery stores (Signature
> Krogers, Super HEB's, etc...), I can find nearly as many as any of the
> "beverage superstores" in any of those other cities (maybe more, or
> better quality). Just about any Spec's liquor stores will have not
> only the big German names (Paulaner, St. Paulie, HackerPschorr,
> etc...), but a half dozen Belgians, English Ales (and nearly every
> other European country), as well as nearly every craft brew made
> between New Orleans and San Antonio, not to mention the "National Craft
> Brews" (New Belgium, Dogfish Head, Flying Dog etc...). Not only will
> they have them, they'll usually be relatively fresh. And just about
> anywhere in Houston, you're not 5 miles from a Specs.
I think you missed my point. These are not TX beers. They are all from
somewhere outside of TX. I think you are confusing the fact that we have an
excellent retail, distribution, and merchandising environment with the idea
that TX, and specifically Houston, have great beers.
>
> Oh, btw, there are two Brewries in Houston, the one you mentioned off
> 290 and another down on I-10 on the east side. While you might not
> like the styles that I-10 brewery produces, they _are_ the most
> successful brewery on the planet.
Can't be a student of Beer and not marvel at AB. That said, I really don't
care for most of their styles of beer. They are going through some big
changes too. They are trying to become more "craft beer" orientated without
upsetting the behemoth that is Budweiser. The purchase of Rolling Rock and
others is only a small step toward trying to diversify the galactic
portfolio.
>
> As for Shiner, they have a saying here in Texas, "Nothin's Finer than a
> Shiner". I'd be interested in hearing what you think is better. While
> I can't talk about their Blonde, Light, or Hefewiessen (I haven't had
> any of those offerings as I don't really like those styles--I didn't
> like the Celis White, either), I can't think of a better example of
> Bock brewed in the US. Same for their Koelsch (yeah, St A's Lawnmower
> is mighty good, but name another). Their "96" (a limited-edition
> Marzen offering from last year) was so much better than St. Arnold's
> oberfest that they shouldn't even be compared (unless St. A has
> changed their O'fest; the last 6 pack of that I bought I couldn't even
> finish). A Shiner isn't the "perfect beer", but because of their
> success, I can go down to the neighborhood gas-station/mini-mart and
> pick up a six-pack of a Koelsh.
Show me anywhere in Tennessee,
> Kentucky, or Georgia (Alabama or Mississippi, too, for that matter) you
> can do that. I have a brother in Knoxville who has trouble even
> finding an example of that style in the whole city.
Not certain why you chose these bastions of culture and brewing to compare
TX to, but quite frankly I am one to set the bar a little higher than "We're
TX and we're better than TN, KY, Georgia, AL, MI. I thought that pretty much
was a given :) Quite frankly, I see no reason that our state shouldn't rival
any other for diversity, quality, & quantity of domestically brewed beer.
Yes, as a
> commercial brewery, they have to keep their recipes the same year after
> year so they don't lose the core base they have to have to keep their
> volume up. They also are all lagers. While I'll grant you there are a
> lot of craft brews out there, I most certianly wouldn't say that
> Shiner's offernings "Suck". And, at least in Houston, you can get a
> Shiner nearly anywhere (heck, you can even get it at Minute Maid park
> from the beer vendor), and it will be fresher than anything you get
> from Colorado (or Deleware?).
>
> Sorry to rant, but I just can't see how you can rag on Shiner unless
> you just don't like any commercial beer, in which case, they all suck.
>
> ab
>
Shiner's big seller is obviously Bock and IMHO it is one of the weakest,
thinnest, poorest attempt at a Bock that I have ever tasted. If my history
is correct, Bock was considered a seasonal offering by most American brewers
and it was typically a very hearty , robust and flavorful offering. I can't
find anything hearty, robust or flavorful about Shiner Bock. It is a total
compromise offered by a TX based brewer to allow Texans to swill a darker
colored beer than say a Dos Equis Amber or a Negro Modelo (both fine brews
from our neighbors to the south).
How on earth could you confuse the fact that you have access to some great
beers at your local store with the notion that TX beer is great? You have
some great retailers but your not drinking many great TX beers....
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Date: 15 Sep 2006 14:06:16
From: Joel
Subject: Re: brewing career question
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Brian Foster <brianfoster@houston.rr.com > wrote:
>"alebrewer" <alebrewer@wt.net> wrote in message
>Show me anywhere in Tennessee,
>> Kentucky, or Georgia (Alabama or Mississippi, too, for that matter) you
>> can do that. I have a brother in Knoxville who has trouble even
>> finding an example of that style in the whole city.
>
>Not certain why you chose these bastions of culture and brewing to compare
>TX to, but quite frankly I am one to set the bar a little higher than "We're
>TX and we're better than TN, KY, Georgia, AL, MI.
Careful, there. MI is the abbreviation for Michigan. There
are literally hundreds of breweries in Michigan, including some
very well-known places like Bell's (formerly Kalamazoo Brewing)
and Michigan Brewing (new home of Celis beers).
--
Joel Plutchak "Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and
plutchak@[...] sometimes I think we're not. In either case the idea
is quite staggering." - Arthur C. Clarke
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Date: 17 Sep 2006 19:35:52
From: alebrewer
Subject: Re: brewing career question
|
Brian Foster wrote:
> Shiner's big seller is obviously Bock and IMHO it is one of the weakest,
> thinnest, poorest attempt at a Bock that I have ever tasted. If my history
> is correct, Bock was considered a seasonal offering by most American brewers
> and it was typically a very hearty , robust and flavorful offering. I can't
> find anything hearty, robust or flavorful about Shiner Bock. It is a total
> compromise offered by a TX based brewer to allow Texans to swill a darker
> colored beer than say a Dos Equis Amber or a Negro Modelo (both fine brews
> from our neighbors to the south).
If you go back more than 15 or 20 years, few of the traditional
American breweries even offered a Bock. Pabst and Stroh's are the only
ones I remember. And this was a time where there were more than 3
major brewries. And, while these were definately robust when compared
to their main product, I'm not sure how they would compare to today's
Shiner Bock. Seasonal, yes, a spring offering, in line with the
maibock festivals in Germany. But, they were still brewed, and
competing with, the Light American Lager that nearly every brewery in
the US was offering. Yes, Shiner's Bock is much lighter in character
than most of the darker beers on the market. Perhaps that is why it is
so popular? As far as comparing Shiner's Bock to a Dos Equis Amber or
a Negra Modelo (your spell-check must be on the fritz), I'd take a
Shiner Bock over any Mexican beer, although the two you mentioned are
the only ones I'd even consider.
>
> How on earth could you confuse the fact that you have access to some great
> beers at your local store with the notion that TX beer is great? You have
> some great retailers but your not drinking many great TX beers....
The variety of beers at the local store would not exist if it weren't
for people buying them. As far as the states I mentioned, most of my
traveling (in the US) is confined to those states. It does cover
nearly a quarter of the US, so it isn't a tiny, obscure region. I will
admit it does represent the heart of the "Bible Belt", and religious
pressures do affect public attitudes.
When I'm in town, I'd estimate that well over 90 percent of the beer I
drink is brewed in Texas (at least half of that, probably more, is
brewed in my backyard). I drink what I like, not what others think is
good. I like to think, however, that I am open-minded enough to
realize that my opinion is not what makes any particular beer "good".
That is usually determined by the majority. You could probably guess,
I don't often follow the majority. That, of course, doesn't make them
wrong (for the same reasons it doesn't make me right). They do,
however, represent the majority opinion.
While I actually drink very little Shiner Bock, it is what I probably
will end up ordering when I go to a resturant and, when asked what
kinds of beers they have, the waitress responds "oh, we have ALL
kinds", which usually means they have Bud, Miller, and maybe, Coors.
But, they will nearly always have Shiner Bock. With Shiner Bock on the
market, my choices are Bud, Bud Lite, Miller Lite, Michelob, and Shiner
Bock. Take Shiner Bock away, and what do you have?
ab
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Date: 18 Sep 2006 13:12:51
From: Brian Foster
Subject: Re: brewing career question
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"alebrewer" <alebrewer@wt.net > wrote in message
news:1158546952.542304.317510@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I drink what I like, not what others think is
> good. I like to think, however, that I am open-minded enough to
> realize that my opinion is not what makes any particular beer "good".
Amen Bro!!! Good on you!!
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