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Date: 10 Aug 2006 21:27:01
From: rjwhite6
Subject: boilscreen in kettle
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I don't whirlpool because I chill 5 gals to 68 degrees or less in 10
minutes or less.
I always use fine mesh hops bags to contain the pellet hops.
Would a boil screen help filter the hot break as I pump the hot wort
out of the kettle or would the hot break go right though the boil
screen or worse yet clog it up causing a 'stuck drain'?
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 01:51:26
From: Steve/Aus
Subject: Re: boilscreen in kettle
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"rjwhite6" <rjwhite6@cannedspam.msn.com > wrote in message
news:jumnd2pj2n808cfe36locv0d4387gd0tv0@4ax.com...
>I don't whirlpool because I chill 5 gals to 68 degrees or less in 10
> minutes or less.
>
> I always use fine mesh hops bags to contain the pellet hops.
>
> Would a boil screen help filter the hot break as I pump the hot wort
> out of the kettle or would the hot break go right though the boil
> screen or worse yet clog it up causing a 'stuck drain'?
Whirlpooling works extremely well - once you get the hang of it.
It will keep 90+% of break and hop material out of the fermenter.
Steve W (in Aus)
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Date: 10 Aug 2006 22:04:51
From: rjwhite6
Subject: Re: boilscreen in kettle
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On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 01:51:26 GMT, "Steve/Aus"
<adlab@bigponddotnetdotau.trashthisbit > wrote:
>
>"rjwhite6" <rjwhite6@cannedspam.msn.com> wrote in message
>news:jumnd2pj2n808cfe36locv0d4387gd0tv0@4ax.com...
>>I don't whirlpool because I chill 5 gals to 68 degrees or less in 10
>> minutes or less.
>>
>> I always use fine mesh hops bags to contain the pellet hops.
>>
>> Would a boil screen help filter the hot break as I pump the hot wort
>> out of the kettle or would the hot break go right though the boil
>> screen or worse yet clog it up causing a 'stuck drain'?
>
>Whirlpooling works extremely well - once you get the hang of it.
>It will keep 90+% of break and hop material out of the fermenter.
>Steve W (in Aus)
>
But I choose to cool the wort as fast as I can, hence the false bottom
filtering the hot break question.
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 15:09:47
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: boilscreen in kettle
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On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 22:04:51 -0400, <rjwhite6@cannedspam.msn.com > wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 01:51:26 GMT, "Steve/Aus"
><adlab@bigponddotnetdotau.trashthisbit> wrote:
>
>>
>>"rjwhite6" <rjwhite6@cannedspam.msn.com> wrote in message
>>news:jumnd2pj2n808cfe36locv0d4387gd0tv0@4ax.com...
>>>I don't whirlpool because I chill 5 gals to 68 degrees or less in 10
>>> minutes or less.
>>>
>>> I always use fine mesh hops bags to contain the pellet hops.
>>>
>>> Would a boil screen help filter the hot break as I pump the hot wort
>>> out of the kettle or would the hot break go right though the boil
>>> screen or worse yet clog it up causing a 'stuck drain'?
>>
>>Whirlpooling works extremely well - once you get the hang of it.
>>It will keep 90+% of break and hop material out of the fermenter.
>>Steve W (in Aus)
>>
> But I choose to cool the wort as fast as I can, hence the false bottom
> filtering the hot break question.
I'm confused (nothing new there). Why does chilling fast mean that you
can not whirlpool?
John.
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 19:09:33
From: rjwhite6
Subject: Re: boilscreen in kettle
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On 11 Aug 2006 15:09:47 GMT, John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <spam@shagg.net >
wrote:
>
>I'm confused (nothing new there). Why does chilling fast mean that you
>can not whirlpool?
>
>
>John.
Good point. Please see my latest reply in 'one trip through cfc vs' so
that I don't duplicate it here.
Thanks for you continuing input.
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 01:30:45
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: boilscreen in kettle
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On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 21:27:01 -0400, <rjwhite6@cannedspam.msn.com > wrote:
> I don't whirlpool because I chill 5 gals to 68 degrees or less in 10
> minutes or less.
>
> I always use fine mesh hops bags to contain the pellet hops.
>
> Would a boil screen help filter the hot break as I pump the hot wort
> out of the kettle or would the hot break go right though the boil
> screen or worse yet clog it up causing a 'stuck drain'?
If you're talking about something like a bazooka, braided hose or false
bottom, the hot break would probably go right through without something
else to set up a filter bed. IE, if you used whole hops they would setup
a filter bed around the screen similar to how grains setup a filter bed
in a mash tun. With just pellet hops in a bag, I don't think the screen
would make much difference... unless you're talking about a different
kind of screen.
John.
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Date: 10 Aug 2006 21:38:20
From: rjwhite6
Subject: Re: boilscreen in kettle
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On 11 Aug 2006 01:30:45 GMT, John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <spam@shagg.net >
wrote:
>On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 21:27:01 -0400, <rjwhite6@cannedspam.msn.com> wrote:
>> I don't whirlpool because I chill 5 gals to 68 degrees or less in 10
>> minutes or less.
>>
>> I always use fine mesh hops bags to contain the pellet hops.
>>
>> Would a boil screen help filter the hot break as I pump the hot wort
>> out of the kettle or would the hot break go right though the boil
>> screen or worse yet clog it up causing a 'stuck drain'?
>
>If you're talking about something like a bazooka, braided hose or false
>bottom, the hot break would probably go right through without something
>else to set up a filter bed. IE, if you used whole hops they would setup
>a filter bed around the screen similar to how grains setup a filter bed
>in a mash tun. With just pellet hops in a bag, I don't think the screen
>would make much difference... unless you're talking about a different
>kind of screen.
>
>
>John.
False bottom
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 11:57:50
From: miker
Subject: Re: boilscreen in kettle
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Steven wrote:
> Okay, normally I'm a lurker, getting benefit of all of the knowledge
> and discussion that embodies this group, mostly because I'm a new AG
> brewer with only 2 batches under my belt doing AG..... Now I need to
> ask something that I think I should probably know, but don't understand
> how I can implement it into my brewing regimine.
>
> I have converted kegs as mash tun and boil kettle. In my boil kettle I
> have a bazooka tube that I put in specifically for the Shirron chiller
> that I just put on my system. I use pelleted hops and use a disposable
> mesh bag to keep the majority of the mess contained. It will be my
> first run (Saturday) for my new bazooka tube/Shirron combination, and I
> don't want to mess anything up!
>
> It's possible I'm not clear on what "hot break" is. I certainly see
> the residuals left behind in the boil pot after draining into the
> fermenter, but I had always thought that was just hop parts that
> escaped from the bag during the boil.
>
> Will this "whirlpooling" help me? If so, and I'm not intentionally
> being dense here, is it as simple as using a stir spoon to create a
> whirlpool as I drain through the chiller into my 6.5 gallon carboys
> used for fermenting?
>
> Thanks guys, I hope to contribute more to these discussions as soon as
> I understand my system and how everything clicks :)
>
> Steven
>
Hey Steven,
Hope you can post back after your brew session since I just converted a
keg to a boil kettle and added a Bazooka T screen and also just got a
Shirron Plate Chiller. Won't be able to try it all out for another week
or so.
Hot break is proteins and tannins from malt and hops that precipitate
out during boiling. Of course you also get some hop parts and such. I
think it will be difficult to whirlpool with the bazooka running down
the center, but if your bazooka is like mine, it sits a little ways off
the bottom and should leave behind most of the hot break (I hope).
One of the differences that I'll see using the plate chiller vs. my
immersion chiller is that I won't leave behind the cold break like I
used to (unless I rack again before going into fermenter, which I
won't). But fermenting on cold break is ok (some say fermenting on hot
break is ok, too) and it will all be left behind when racking to
secondary.
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 11:32:33
From: Steven
Subject: Re: boilscreen in kettle
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Okay, normally I'm a lurker, getting benefit of all of the knowledge
and discussion that embodies this group, mostly because I'm a new AG
brewer with only 2 batches under my belt doing AG..... Now I need to
ask something that I think I should probably know, but don't understand
how I can implement it into my brewing regimine.
I have converted kegs as mash tun and boil kettle. In my boil kettle I
have a bazooka tube that I put in specifically for the Shirron chiller
that I just put on my system. I use pelleted hops and use a disposable
mesh bag to keep the majority of the mess contained. It will be my
first run (Saturday) for my new bazooka tube/Shirron combination, and I
don't want to mess anything up!
It's possible I'm not clear on what "hot break" is. I certainly see
the residuals left behind in the boil pot after draining into the
fermenter, but I had always thought that was just hop parts that
escaped from the bag during the boil.
Will this "whirlpooling" help me? If so, and I'm not intentionally
being dense here, is it as simple as using a stir spoon to create a
whirlpool as I drain through the chiller into my 6.5 gallon carboys
used for fermenting?
Thanks guys, I hope to contribute more to these discussions as soon as
I understand my system and how everything clicks :)
Steven
rjwhite6 wrote:
> I don't whirlpool because I chill 5 gals to 68 degrees or less in 10
> minutes or less.
>
> I always use fine mesh hops bags to contain the pellet hops.
>
> Would a boil screen help filter the hot break as I pump the hot wort
> out of the kettle or would the hot break go right though the boil
> screen or worse yet clog it up causing a 'stuck drain'?
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 13:57:10
From: Larry Bristol
Subject: Re: boilscreen in kettle
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Steven wrote:
> Will this "whirlpooling" help me?
> [...]
> is it as simple as using a stir spoon to create a whirlpool as I drain
> through the chiller into my 6.5 gallon carboys used for fermenting?
The idea of "whirlpooling" is that it causes sediment material to collect
into the center of the whirlpool, rather than uniformly on the bottom of
the kettle. Yes, you can create a whirlpool with nothing more than a good
spoon. There are, of course, more "sophisticated" means that require less
elbow grease.
You can demonstrate for yourself how this works. Take a bucket of water,
put some sand in it, stir it like crazy (in one direction) to create a
whirlpool. After you stop stirring, and the water stops spinning, you will
see that the vast majority of the sand has collected into a mound in the
center of the bucket.
This action is very useful if you happen to have a spigot on the *side* of
the vessel, because it moves the materials you don't want to the center,
*away* from the spigot. OTOH, it would not be useful at all if you are
draining the wort from the middle of the kettle; in fact, it would be the
exact opposite of what you really want.
I've never used a "bazooka" tube, but I gather that it sits on the bottom of
the vessel and allows you to drain the vessel from the center (more or
less). Based on this assumption, I would say that you would not want to
whirlpool.
--
Larry Bristol --- The Double Luck
http://www.doubleluck.com
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 20:29:26
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: boilscreen in kettle
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On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 13:57:10 -0500, <larry.remove@remove.doubleluck.com > wrote:
> I've never used a "bazooka" tube, but I gather that it sits on the bottom of
> the vessel and allows you to drain the vessel from the center (more or
> less). Based on this assumption, I would say that you would not want to
> whirlpool.
A "bazooka T" drains from the middle. The regular "bazooka" drains from
the side. It depends on which one they have.
John.
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 18:54:37
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: boilscreen in kettle
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On 11 Aug 2006 11:32:33 -0700, <steve661@gmail.com > wrote:
> It's possible I'm not clear on what "hot break" is. I certainly see
> the residuals left behind in the boil pot after draining into the
> fermenter, but I had always thought that was just hop parts that
> escaped from the bag during the boil.
Any chunks of stuff you see are probably escaped hop pellet residue. The
hot break is mostly made up of proteins. It looks like cloudy/soupy
wort, more than physical pieces. If you've ever watched as the kettle
drained, and right near the end the color of the wort changes to look
more opaque or cloudy, that's probably the break.
> Will this "whirlpooling" help me? If so, and I'm not intentionally
> being dense here, is it as simple as using a stir spoon to create a
> whirlpool as I drain through the chiller into my 6.5 gallon carboys
> used for fermenting?
Usually you whirlpool first and then drain. Yeah, just stir the wort so
that it creates a whirlpool. Solid material is sucked into the center
of the whirlpool. If you leave it alone for a minute or two until the
wort stops spinning, the solid material will then be in a pile in the
center of your kettle, rather than spread evenly across the bottom. Now
you can transfer to the fermenter and try to avoid the pile of stuff
in the center.
John.
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 19:13:50
From: rjwhite6
Subject: Re: boilscreen in kettle
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On 11 Aug 2006 18:54:37 GMT, John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <spam@shagg.net >
wrote:
>Usually you whirlpool first and then drain. Yeah, just stir the wort so
>that it creates a whirlpool. Solid material is sucked into the center
>of the whirlpool. If you leave it alone for a minute or two until the
>wort stops spinning, the solid material will then be in a pile in the
>center of your kettle, rather than spread evenly across the bottom. Now
>you can transfer to the fermenter and try to avoid the pile of stuff
>in the center.
>
>
>John.
Oh, just a minute or two?
I guess heard too many people say that it took 20 minutes.
If it only takes a minute or two for the whole whirlpool thing then
that settles that issue.
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Date: 12 Aug 2006 22:04:42
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: boilscreen in kettle
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On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 19:13:50 -0400, <rjwhite6@cannedspam.msn.com > wrote:
> Oh, just a minute or two?
> I guess heard too many people say that it took 20 minutes.
I have no idea why someone would think it takes 20 minutes to whirlpool.
Maybe they meant 20 minutes for chilling?
John.
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 19:16:28
From: Derric
Subject: Re: boilscreen in kettle
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> Usually you whirlpool first and then drain. Yeah, just stir the wort so
> that it creates a whirlpool. Solid material is sucked into the center
> of the whirlpool. If you leave it alone for a minute or two until the
> wort stops spinning, the solid material will then be in a pile in the
> center of your kettle, rather than spread evenly across the bottom. Now
> you can transfer to the fermenter and try to avoid the pile of stuff
> in the center.
One note... if you use pellet hops, the pile pretty much doesn't exist by
the time you are finished transfering... I still whirlpool, but with
pellet hops it doesn't seem to do any good. It does work as advertised
with whole hops.
Derric
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