auto siphon nightmare

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Date: 20 Jul 2006 18:58:06
From: Matt
Subject: auto siphon nightmare

I've been using the auto siphon for about a year with out any reall
problems. That is until I siphoned what would be my first competition
beer. I bought some new 3/8's tubing today because I'm that anal about
this beer. The tubing was a little loose fitting on my auto siphon and
air was somehow getting in with the beer. So much so that it stopped
the siphon all together mid way and was foaming up my secondary. Infact
I had to restart the siphon a few times with air getting all in the
tubing.

So my questions are:

1. Does this beer have a chance since there's probably been significant
oxidation?

2. Should I be using a tighter diameter tubing? If so what diameter (I
have the smaller auto siphon).

I'm really kind of bummed because all of my brewing experience has come
up to making this beer the best, and I think it took me only five
minutes to ruin it.

Date: 21 Jul 2006 09:59:28
From: Gerard Eberlein
Subject: Re: auto siphon nightmare

"Matt" <djembefola24@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1153447085.892958.254380@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> I've been using the auto siphon for about a year with out any reall
> problems. That is until I siphoned what would be my first competition
> beer. I bought some new 3/8's tubing today because I'm that anal about
> this beer. The tubing was a little loose fitting on my auto siphon and
> air was somehow getting in with the beer. So much so that it stopped
> the siphon all together mid way and was foaming up my secondary. Infact
> I had to restart the siphon a few times with air getting all in the
> tubing.
>
> So my questions are:
>
> 1. Does this beer have a chance since there's probably been significant
> oxidation?
>
> 2. Should I be using a tighter diameter tubing? If so what diameter (I
> have the smaller auto siphon).
>
> I'm really kind of bummed because all of my brewing experience has come
> up to making this beer the best, and I think it took me only five
> minutes to ruin it.
>

I had my first nightmare last night with an auto siphon. My tube fits very
snug, so much it is sometimes difficult to get on the siphon. I was racking
my Arrogant Bastard clone off to the bottling bucket and I had dry hopped it
with pellet instead of whole hops. I wrapped some clean cheesecloth around
the bottom of the siphon and wrapped a rubber band around it, all sanitized
of course. When I got down to the last gallon or so it started clogging bad.
I had to pull out the siphon and take off the cheesecloth and try to
carefully siphon the rest, which in the end pulled up a bunch of minute hop
pieces that were suspended in the wort. The first case seemed to be pretty
clear, but near the end the fine particles that got into the bottling bucket
ended up clogging my auto bottle filter. I decided the last 2- 22oz. bottles
i just poured the stuff in hop pieces and all and will drink those first
after pouring through some strainer. Anyone run into this prob before?

Gerard

Date: 21 Jul 2006 14:34:47
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: auto siphon nightmare

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 09:59:28 -0400, <dormouse@charter.net > wrote:
> I had my first nightmare last night with an auto siphon. My tube fits very
> snug, so much it is sometimes difficult to get on the siphon.

I just leave the tubing connected. The only time I take it off is when
I'm replacing it with a new piece.

> I was racking
> my Arrogant Bastard clone off to the bottling bucket and I had dry hopped it
> with pellet instead of whole hops.

Yeah, pellet hops do make a mess in the fermenter. You hear opinions both
ways on this, but personally I much prefer to dry hop with whole hops instead
of pellets. I find racking much easier. If you do use pellets for dry
hopping, you might want to think about using a hop bag to try and contain
the sludge that they form.

John.

Date: 21 Jul 2006 11:30:18
From: Gerard Eberlein
Subject: Re: auto siphon nightmare

"John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" <spam@shagg.net > wrote in message
news:slrnec1pjp.9rj.spam@weizen.shagg.net...
>
> Yeah, pellet hops do make a mess in the fermenter. You hear opinions both
> ways on this, but personally I much prefer to dry hop with whole hops
instead
> of pellets. I find racking much easier. If you do use pellets for dry
> hopping, you might want to think about using a hop bag to try and contain
> the sludge that they form.
>
>
> John.

I usually use whole hops but the selection of them is limited at my LHBS,
usually cascade. I wanted to use Amarillo for this recipe so I was stuck
with pellets. I thought of using a hop bag but since the pellets would be
contained in a small area rather than dispersing wouldn't that lower the
amount of extraction being it just sits there?

Gerard

Date: 21 Jul 2006 15:52:31
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: auto siphon nightmare

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 11:30:18 -0400, <dormouse@charter.net > wrote:
> I usually use whole hops but the selection of them is limited at my LHBS,
> usually cascade. I wanted to use Amarillo for this recipe so I was stuck
> with pellets. I thought of using a hop bag but since the pellets would be
> contained in a small area rather than dispersing wouldn't that lower the
> amount of extraction being it just sits there?

I don't think so, at least not for dry hopping. Using a hop bag does tend
to lower the utilization during a 60 minute boil. But given that dry
hops sit in there for a week or more, I think you'll get plenty of contact
time, even with the bag.

I can't say it from personal experience since I switched to whole hops a
long time ago, but IIRC I've seen others comment that they don't notice
any difference when using a hop bag for dry hopping.

John.

Date: 21 Jul 2006 06:05:27
From:
Subject: Re: auto siphon nightmare

I usually dip the hose and the cane of the auto-siphon is clean water
so that I get a good seal when the two go together.

Another 'trick' I use is to pinch the hose for a couple of seconds,
just in front of the cane, when the siphon begins. It seems to purge
air and help increase flow. I either saw someone do this or read about
it somewhere, I can't remember. I just know I haven't had any stalled
siphons since I began using that trick.

Date: 21 Jul 2006 06:46:06
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: auto siphon nightmare

On 20 Jul 2006 18:58:06 -0700, <djembefola24@yahoo.com > wrote:
> 2. Should I be using a tighter diameter tubing? If so what diameter (I
> have the smaller auto siphon).

I put a hose clamp on mine where the tubing fits onto the racking cane.
It seems to do the trick.

John.

Date: 21 Jul 2006 03:58:12
From: Steve/Aus
Subject: Re: auto siphon nightmare

Date: 21 Jul 2006 14:14:25
From: Thomas T. Veldhouse
Subject: Re: auto siphon nightmare

Matt <djembefola24@yahoo.com > wrote:
> I've been using the auto siphon for about a year with out any reall
> problems. That is until I siphoned what would be my first competition
> beer. I bought some new 3/8's tubing today because I'm that anal about
> this beer. The tubing was a little loose fitting on my auto siphon and
> air was somehow getting in with the beer. So much so that it stopped
> the siphon all together mid way and was foaming up my secondary. Infact
> I had to restart the siphon a few times with air getting all in the
> tubing.
>
> So my questions are:
>
> 1. Does this beer have a chance since there's probably been significant
> oxidation?
>

If it is air, yes, it will oxidize your beer. There is a good chance that it
is actually carbon dioxide kicked out of solution during the siphon. Also, I
have found that air is sometimes sucked in through the top side of the
plunger, so I usually poor a little vodka or clean water in on top of the
plunger while siphoning.

> 2. Should I be using a tighter diameter tubing? If so what diameter (I
> have the smaller auto siphon).

See above, I doubt it is your tubing. Another thing that helps to keep your
siphon from stopping is to lift the plunger from the base of the tube a couple
of inches [I don't know why it makes a difference, but it works for me].

>
> I'm really kind of bummed because all of my brewing experience has come
> up to making this beer the best, and I think it took me only five
> minutes to ruin it.
>

If it is CO2, I wouldn't worry about it at all. Just send it to your
competition anyway and see how it goes.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1

Date: 21 Jul 2006 19:02:29
From: Scott Alfter
Subject: Re: auto siphon nightmare

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Hash: SHA1

In article <1153447085.892958.254380@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com >,
Matt <djembefola24@yahoo.com > wrote:
>I've been using the auto siphon for about a year with out any reall
>problems. That is until I siphoned what would be my first competition
>beer. I bought some new 3/8's tubing today because I'm that anal about
>this beer. The tubing was a little loose fitting on my auto siphon and
>air was somehow getting in with the beer. So much so that it stopped
>the siphon all together mid way and was foaming up my secondary.

Are you sure you were picking up air? I racked a wine from a bucket to a
carboy once that had so much dissolved carbon dioxide in it that the
auto-siphon kept stopping. I've not had that problem with any of the beers
I've made (at least not to the same extent), but it's not outside the realm
of possibility.

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( http://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

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Date: 21 Jul 2006 14:15:53
From: Thomas T. Veldhouse
Subject: Re: auto siphon nightmare

Scott Alfter <scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us > wrote:
>
> Are you sure you were picking up air? I racked a wine from a bucket to a
> carboy once that had so much dissolved carbon dioxide in it that the
> auto-siphon kept stopping. I've not had that problem with any of the beers
> I've made (at least not to the same extent), but it's not outside the realm
> of possibility.
>

I have had it happen several times. It is worst when the beer is cooler in
temp.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1

Date: 22 Jul 2006 07:31:52
From: Matt
Subject: Re: auto siphon nightmare

Well I just took a gravity reading that came out to about 1.026. I've
got about 10-12 points to go so now my question is: Since there's some
more work to be done by the yeast, is there a good chance that whatever
oxidation had occured will be used up by the yeast? I used cal ale
yeast and my SG was 1.056. Primary was 6 days and secondary 2 days so
far.

Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
> Scott Alfter <scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us> wrote:
> >
> > Are you sure you were picking up air? I racked a wine from a bucket to a
> > carboy once that had so much dissolved carbon dioxide in it that the
> > auto-siphon kept stopping. I've not had that problem with any of the beers
> > I've made (at least not to the same extent), but it's not outside the realm
> > of possibility.
> >
>
> I have had it happen several times. It is worst when the beer is cooler in
> temp.
>
> --
> Thomas T. Veldhouse
> Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1

Date: 22 Jul 2006 10:49:03
From: Larry Bristol
Subject: Re: auto siphon nightmare

Matt wrote:

> Well I just took a gravity reading that came out to about 1.026. I've
> got about 10-12 points to go so now my question is: Since there's some
> more work to be done by the yeast, is there a good chance that whatever
> oxidation had occured will be used up by the yeast? I used cal ale
> yeast and my SG was 1.056. Primary was 6 days and secondary 2 days so
> far.

Relax, Matt! Worrying is very bad for your beer.

On one hand, your may not have picked up enough oxygen to do any harm in the
first place. If that's the case, then you have nothing to worry about at
all!

OTOH, let's suppose you did. Well, here's my take on oxidation: It is
*impossible* for a home brewer to avoid it completely. All you can do is
minimize the beer's exposure to oxygen as much as you can.

What does oxidation do? More oxygen in the beer will cause it to go stale
sooner. After a while, it will start having a sherry-like character
(probably very muted). It might even start having the flavor of chewing
cardboard. The hop bitterness will probably be reduced over time, and even
the malt flavors might become more bland, less "interesting".

But *none* of this happens overnight. My advice is to forget about
oxidation worries, finish the fermentation, just like you normally would,
bottle or keg it just like normal, and then hope that it tastes as good as
all your other beers have tasted. If so, then simply drink it up as fast
as you can (within 3-4 months), so that any oxidation problems won't have
time to show up! And go ahead and enter it competitively. One never
knows.

--
Larry Bristol --- The Double Luck
http://www.doubleluck.com

Date: 23 Jul 2006 00:11:30
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: auto siphon nightmare

On 22 Jul 2006 07:31:52 -0700, <djembefola24@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Well I just took a gravity reading that came out to about 1.026. I've
> got about 10-12 points to go so now my question is: Since there's some
> more work to be done by the yeast, is there a good chance that whatever
> oxidation had occured will be used up by the yeast? I used cal ale
> yeast and my SG was 1.056. Primary was 6 days and secondary 2 days so
> far.

I think you'll be OK. The autosiphon probably didn't cause much oxidation
in the first place, and since you've got a lot of activity left it should
help get rid of it.

John.