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Date: 25 Jun 2006 22:47:48
From: THEE DUDE
Subject: Yeast options for Alt Can I use a Kolsch yeast?
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I was thinking of brewing an Alt beer.
But I have a pack of Kolsch yeast.
Any thoughts??
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 21:21:58
From: (East Bay) Phil
Subject: Re: Yeast options for Alt Can I use a Kolsch yeast?
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There were several threads on this 2 months ago. Short answer: yes.
THEE DUDE wrote:
> I was thinking of brewing an Alt beer.
> But I have a pack of Kolsch yeast.
>
> Any thoughts??
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 09:42:48
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Yeast options for Alt Can I use a Kolsch yeast?
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THEE DUDE wrote:
>
> I was thinking of brewing an Alt beer.
> But I have a pack of Kolsch yeast.
>
> Any thoughts??
You can, but I wouldn't recommend it. To my tastebuds, they're
distinctly different taste profiles.
----------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 09:10:48
From: John Krehbiel
Subject: Re: Yeast options for Alt Can I use a Kolsch yeast?
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THEE DUDE wrote:
> I was thinking of brewing an Alt beer.
> But I have a pack of Kolsch yeast.
>
> Any thoughts??
As a school teacher I seldom think in the summertime, :-) but FWIW, if
you like Koelsch, sure, if not, I would use German Ale yeast. (I found
out I really don't like Koelsch much. I thought I was messing up, but
it was the style I didn't like.)
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 15:00:54
From: neal
Subject: Re: Yeast options for Alt Can I use a Kolsch yeast?
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The other pointy-headed beer-geek note here is that if you pick a Alt
or 'Euro Ale' strain that is lower in attenuation than the Kolsch
strains then you should mash at a lower temp to get a slightly more
fermentable wort to compensate.
This will allow you to experiment with other yeasts to see how they
work in a Kolsch while still getting the near 80% attenuation you want
for the style.
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 14:37:23
From: neal
Subject: Re: Yeast options for Alt Can I use a Kolsch yeast?
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If you are willing to spend some coin here are other places to get Alt
and Kolsch yeasts:
Siebel Institute of Technology :
Bry 144 German Alt
Bry 401 German Kolsch
Weihenstephan:
W 165 - top fermenting yeast for K=F6lsch Bier
W 177 - top fermenting yeast for K=F6lsch Bier
W 141- top fermenting yeast for Altbier
W 174 - top fermenting yeast for Altbier
W 184 - top fermenting yeast for Altbier
W 197 - top fermenting yeast for Altbier
W 208 - top fermenting yeast for Altbier
W165 is the one they indicate can be used for either style.
(I suspect from some of the wording that W177 might be the same as BRY
401.)
VLB in Berlin:
160 top fermenting non flocculent Ale, "Altbier"
S=2EL.A. top fermenting non flocculent Ale, "Altbier"
139 top fermenting nearly non flocculent Ale, "Altbier"
O=2EK.3 top fermenting nearly non flocculent "Koelschbier"
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 14:20:20
From: neal
Subject: Re: Yeast options for Alt Can I use a Kolsch yeast?
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I'm kind of a freak about Kolsch and Alt, so I've done some research on
this.
The answer is yes. You likely won't get exactly the same flavor
profile by substituting a Kolsch yeast for an Alt or vice-versa.... but
there are enough flavor differences within the Kolsch and Alt styles
that I really don't think you'll notice much.
The Weinenstephan Hefebank in Germany also has a yeast that they
promote as being for either style, and I suspect that it is the yeast
used by some of the mega breweries near Cologne that produce both a
Kolsch and an Altbier. Note that the fact that the same brewery
produces both Kolsch and Altbier is fairly controversial, so the
breweries try to hide this... but there are several 'brands' brewed in
the old Kuppers brewery.
So with all due respect to Denny Conn, I'm not going to argue with the
Weinenstephan on the matter. Does that mean that all Kolsch and Alt
yeasts are interchangable? No, but close enough in my opinion.
I spent two days each in both Cologne and Duesseldorf recently drinking
at many different breweries.. and there are some differences.. chierf
among those is that Kolsch is more 'winey' in flavor and Altbier is
dominated by the hop flavors. Yet I am not really comfortable making
some kind of ideological stand on using the 'wrong' yeast.
Besides, I think that the vast majority of homebrewers and beer judges
have never had either fresh Kolsch or Altbier and given that, one
individual's opinion on the 'authentic' taste is somewhat worthless
(including my own).
Maybe if I lived in both towns for a year or so and really learned the
subtle differences of all brands with lots of practice (this is how
they train drug dogs right?) I would feel comfortable having a strong
opinion.
Here's the list:
WLP029 - German Ale Kolsch from PJ Fruh in Cologne
WY2565 - German Kolsch, unknown origin
WY1010 - American Hefe -- Actually a German Kolsch from Paffgen in
Cologne
WLP036 - Duesseldorf Alt - Seasonal, get it now.
WY1007 - German Alt from Zum Uerige in Duesseldorf
WLP320 - American Hefe - actually Widmer's yeast, which is from Zum
Uerige
WY1338 - 'Euro Ale' German Ale Yeast from Wissenschaftliche Station
WLP011 - 'Euro Ale' German Ale Yeast
Hard to find strains:
WLP003 German II Ale - from Duesseldorf - discontinued
BRY335 Alt - same as Weihenstephan 148.
BrewTek CL400 Old German Ale - unknown origion
BrewTek CL-450 Kolsch - unknown origion
EasYeast German Ale
EasYeast Kolsch
Yeast Lab A06 German Ale
DCL Yeast K-97 SafAle German Ale - Not imported to the US market in
homebrew sizes
Note that WY1010 is NOT the same as WLP320, this is contrary to most of
the 'equivalence charts' out there. And unfortunately I can't find ANY
information on Wissenschaftliche Station, and the Weinenstephan
reported no information on the #338 strain. In addition the origin of
WLP011 is conjectured to be the same as WY1338. I have my doubts.
Both the WY1056/WLP001 and Sam Adams WLP008 East Coast Ale might be
worth looking at well.
Many award winning Kolsch and Alt beers have been brewed with the
'wrong' yeast, so if it tastes good then call it good beer.
Good brewing!
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Date: 07 Jul 2006 15:26:16
From: Thomas T. Veldhouse
Subject: Re: Yeast options for Alt Can I use a Kolsch yeast?
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THEE DUDE <theedudenatorSPAMyahoo.com > wrote:
> I was thinking of brewing an Alt beer.
> But I have a pack of Kolsch yeast.
>
Sure, it should be alright.
> Any thoughts??
I think I like the idea of using a German Ale Yeast (i.e. WYeast 1007 German
Ale) as well.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
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Date: 07 Jul 2006 21:18:52
From: Fishhead
Subject: Re: Yeast options for Alt Can I use a Kolsch yeast?
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I already brewed the beers..
I used a large starter of 1007 in both of them.
I have them in a fridge at 50F
I mashed around 148F for both
Infusion for the Kolsch and triple decot for the Alt
Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
> THEE DUDE <theedudenatorSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>> I was thinking of brewing an Alt beer.
>> But I have a pack of Kolsch yeast.
>>
>
> Sure, it should be alright.
>
>> Any thoughts??
>
> I think I like the idea of using a German Ale Yeast (i.e. WYeast 1007 German
> Ale) as well.
>
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Date: 07 Jul 2006 13:23:22
From: (East Bay) Phil
Subject: Re: Yeast options for Alt Can I use a Kolsch yeast?
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This seems like a dandy place for a follow-up post on my WLP036 vs.
WLP029 experiment.
I used both yeasts in a split batch of Milo's Alt. The one difference
between mine and the recipe (besides yeast) was that I mashed lower -
around 147. I did so because I realized that the 036 reports lower
attenuation than the recommended 1007 yeast. 036 and 029 probably
represent the extremes in terms of attenuation amongst German ale
yeasts. I lagered all beers mentioned here for 3 weeks+. The alts
probably got a bit more.
Well, we had a party for the 4th and drank both kegs. The difference
was clear. WLP029 was crisper, less-rounded, less-sweet. In a brief
comparison, a lager fan actually preferred the 036. In a side-by-side,
I must say that I gave it the slight edge. Somehow, the rounded
character had more malty depth than the crisp 029 version. Just so I
don't seem biased, I typically like hoppy brews and in using these
yeasts on a split kolsch batch, the 036 was flabby and flat tasting
whereas the 029 was appropriately clean, crisp, and slightly fruity.
Don't get me wrong. If you've got 029, you can use it for both styles
and the beer's quite good. Perhaps the higher mash would make a good
match for that yeast. The experiment simply confirmed that where you
may prefer one of these yeasts for the one style, it may be inferior for
the other.
Phil
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Date: 07 Jul 2006 13:30:53
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Yeast options for Alt Can I use a Kolsch yeast?
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"(East Bay) Phil" wrote:
> I used both yeasts in a split batch of Milo's Alt. The one difference
> between mine and the recipe (besides yeast) was that I mashed lower -
> around 147.
You're a smart man, Phil! I've rethought that, too, and now regularly
mash that recipe at about 146-148.
---------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 14 Jul 2006 15:14:41
From: neal
Subject: Re: Yeast options for Alt Can I use a Kolsch yeast?
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Fishhead wrote:
> I already brewed the beers..
>
> I used a large starter of 1007 in both of them.
> I have them in a fridge at 50F
> I mashed around 148F for both
> Infusion for the Kolsch and triple decot for the Alt
How did they turn out??? How did you like doing the tripple dec?
I've done it 2-3 times and it is a LONG brew day. At this point I'll
probably just use malatonian malt and possibly one decion to get a
lazy man's imitation of a triple dec.
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Date: 14 Jul 2006 21:48:57
From: Fishhead
Subject: Re: Yeast options for Alt Can I use a Kolsch yeast?
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I haven't racked them yet!!!!
I will tonight or tommorow.. and take a taste.
I do triple decots all the time on my brews... no big deal
neal wrote:
> Fishhead wrote:
>> I already brewed the beers..
>>
>> I used a large starter of 1007 in both of them.
>> I have them in a fridge at 50F
>> I mashed around 148F for both
>> Infusion for the Kolsch and triple decot for the Alt
>
> How did they turn out??? How did you like doing the tripple dec?
> I've done it 2-3 times and it is a LONG brew day. At this point I'll
> probably just use malatonian malt and possibly one decion to get a
> lazy man's imitation of a triple dec.
>
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