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Main
Date: 08 Aug 2006 19:18:07
From: Bill Crisafulli
Subject: Yeast Temp Question
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I decided to brew during this break in the heatwave here in the Bay Area. I
told my buddy to get an Oktoberfest recipe up at B3, not remembering that it
was brewed with a Lager yeast. Since I knew we weren't going to have time
for a yeast starter (we were going to brew the next day) I told him to get
two vials of yeast.
Got the wort into the fermenter at about 71 degrees. Aerated and pitched
both yeast vials and set the temp on the B3 temp controlled conical to drop
it down to 55F. It took about 24 hours to get there. About 28 hours after
pitching, there was no evidence of fermentation. I decided to check the
White Labs web site to see what temp the yeast preferred and lo and behold
it said to pitch at above 70F until fermentation was going. I know this is
because a vial of WL isn't enough yeast for a lager, and even two vials
isn't enough for my 10 gallon batch, and the preferred approach would be to
build up a big starter and then pitch at fermentation temps, but I didn't
have the lead time.
Anyway, I decided to bring the temp up to 72. Another 25 hours later it
started to show signs of fermentation. Now, about 90 hours after pitching,
it is at a reasonably high krausen level. I am confident in my sanitation
so I don't have any worries about the lag time, but I am now wondering what
I should be doing with the temperature. I've dropped the temp down to about
65 so far, but should I continue to drop it right to the 53-58 range
recommended by White Labs, or should I do it more slowly.
This is the WLP 820 Oktoberfest/Marzen yeast?
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Date: 08 Aug 2006 19:31:37
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Yeast Temp Question
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On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 19:18:07 GMT, <wiscer_remove_this_@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Got the wort into the fermenter at about 71 degrees. Aerated and pitched
> both yeast vials and set the temp on the B3 temp controlled conical to drop
> it down to 55F. It took about 24 hours to get there. About 28 hours after
> pitching, there was no evidence of fermentation. I decided to check the
> White Labs web site to see what temp the yeast preferred and lo and behold
> it said to pitch at above 70F until fermentation was going. I know this is
> because a vial of WL isn't enough yeast for a lager, and even two vials
> isn't enough for my 10 gallon batch, and the preferred approach would be to
> build up a big starter and then pitch at fermentation temps, but I didn't
> have the lead time.
Yeah, WL tells you to pitch warm to compensate for the fact that their
vials don't contain enough yeast. It works, but is definitely not ideal.
> Anyway, I decided to bring the temp up to 72. Another 25 hours later it
> started to show signs of fermentation. Now, about 90 hours after pitching,
> it is at a reasonably high krausen level. I am confident in my sanitation
> so I don't have any worries about the lag time, but I am now wondering what
> I should be doing with the temperature. I've dropped the temp down to about
> 65 so far, but should I continue to drop it right to the 53-58 range
> recommended by White Labs, or should I do it more slowly.
If you want it to taste like a lager, you'll need to bring the temps
down. Preferably you'd do all of the fermentation at lager temps, since
it's even more critical in the beginnings of the primary. Chances are
you've already got by-products uncharacteristic of a lager though. It's
up to you how worried you want to be about temps at this point.
> This is the WLP 820 Oktoberfest/Marzen yeast?
You'll probably just end up with an ale-ish Oktoberfest/Marzen. That may
or may not be a big deal, depending on what you were aiming for.
John.
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 00:34:06
From: Steve/Aus
Subject: Re: Yeast Temp Question
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"John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" <spam@shagg.net > wrote in message
news:slrnedhpp5.omo.spam@weizen.shagg.net...
> On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 19:18:07 GMT, <wiscer_remove_this_@hotmail.com> wrote:
> If you want it to taste like a lager, you'll need to bring the temps
> down. Preferably you'd do all of the fermentation at lager temps, since
> it's even more critical in the beginnings of the primary. Chances are
> you've already got by-products uncharacteristic of a lager though. It's
> up to you how worried you want to be about temps at this point.
>
>
> You'll probably just end up with an ale-ish Oktoberfest/Marzen. That may
> or may not be a big deal, depending on what you were aiming for.
>
>
> John.
I used to pitch cold, now I pitch my lagers warm. Usually pitching about
28-30C. However, I crash cool immediately to 5C which takes about 12-20
hours. During this period, fermentation starts quickly, usually within 1
hour with large starters so, there's no lage time. After 36 hours or so, I
raise the temp to 8-10C for the remainder of the primary.
This method has definitely improved my lagers and I do not suffer from any
estery flavours.
It has certainly helped reduce the time from brew - to - drink. (along with
my reduced lagering time now I use iso-hop for bittering).
Steve W (in Aus)
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Date: 08 Aug 2006 14:25:52
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: Yeast Temp Question
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Bill Crisafulli wrote:
> recommended by White Labs, or should I do it more slowly.
>
> This is the WLP 820 Oktoberfest/Marzen yeast?
>
>
You can go ahead and drop it slowly (no more than 4-8 degrees/24 hours,
less is better), but note that most esters tend to be produced early in
the fermentation, so it may not make much difference in the final
outcome. Shouldn't hurt, though, and can only help.
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 03:17:18
From: GeoffT
Subject: Re: Yeast Temp Question
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I pitch warm and never suffer any esters in my lagers. It makes me
wonder how long people are leaving it warm before bringing it down to
fermentation temp. I dont doubt that pitching cold produces better
results but this is more difficult than it sounds.
I pitch around 18C and set the fridge to 10C an hour or so later.
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 14:13:19
From: Bill Crisafulli
Subject: Re: Yeast Temp Question
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Thing is, I pitched warm (71F) and then dropped it to about 55. After 2+
days, no activity. Not a big surprise since I didn't do a starter, but
still a bit of a concern that there wasn't any evidence of activity. So I
brought it back up to 72 and bingo, fermentation begins. Now I have it back
down to 60, and will be dropping it the rest of the way back to 55 today,
but a lot of fermentation has occurred, so I am sure this will be a bit of a
fruity Oktoberfest.
Not a problem, really, but it's just one more example of why starters are
critical.
"GeoffT" <sonic_death_monkey@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1155118638.661787.214680@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>I pitch warm and never suffer any esters in my lagers. It makes me
> wonder how long people are leaving it warm before bringing it down to
> fermentation temp. I dont doubt that pitching cold produces better
> results but this is more difficult than it sounds.
>
> I pitch around 18C and set the fridge to 10C an hour or so later.
>
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 23:33:14
From: Steve/Aus
Subject: Re: Yeast Temp Question
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"Bill Crisafulli" <wiscer_remove_this_@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:34mCg.4899$1f6.4680@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
> Thing is, I pitched warm (71F) and then dropped it to about 55. After 2+
> days, no activity. Not a big surprise since I didn't do a starter, but
> still a bit of a concern that there wasn't any evidence of activity. So I
> brought it back up to 72 and bingo, fermentation begins. Now I have it
> back down to 60, and will be dropping it the rest of the way back to 55
> today, but a lot of fermentation has occurred, so I am sure this will be a
> bit of a fruity Oktoberfest.
>
> Not a problem, really, but it's just one more example of why starters are
> critical.
>
With lagers, I find that about 500ml (approx 1 pint?) of slurry is necessary
for good fermentation. I generally only use one strain which is kept
continuouly going from brew to brew so I have a very big starter. It's not
that I would not like to experiment with different strains but find it hard
if I want to use these huge starters.
As you had minimal activity when the beer was warm the first time, you
probably will not have a very eastery beer. The yeast has to be active for
the esters to occur and you said it wasn't. Raising the temp to initiate
fermentation and then dropping it again is much the same as pitching warm
and then dropping to the desired temperature.
Steve W (in Aus)
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 22:07:55
From: neal
Subject: Re: Yeast Temp Question
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Bill Crisafulli wrote:
> Thing is, I pitched warm (71F) and then dropped it to about 55. After 2+
> days, no activity. Not a big surprise since I didn't do a starter, but
> still a bit of a concern that there wasn't any evidence of activity. So I
> brought it back up to 72 and bingo, fermentation begins. Now I have it back
> down to 60, and will be dropping it the rest of the way back to 55 today,
> but a lot of fermentation has occurred, so I am sure this will be a bit of a
> fruity Oktoberfest.
WLP820 is known to be slow in first generation.
It could be that bringing it back to 72 degrees didn't impact it much,
the yeast could have been multipling well at 55 degrees. Note also
that the air-lock bubling is not a good indicator of fermentation
activity. I can't find it yet, but I read a powerpoint by Mary Beth
Raines-Casselman on yeast. She indicated not to count on air-lock
activity for much.
During the yeast growth phase after pitching, the yeast is multiplying
but not necessarily resperating...
I've pitched lager yeasts with starters and cooled them at a reasonable
schedule.... but not have an air-lock activity for 48 hours plus.
Wait and see on the 'fruitiness', lagering can clean things up a lot.
And you may not really see it at all.
Note also that 55 is a bit on the high-side for lagers. I've vote for
a lower temp near 50F.
Whatever you decide, I'm sure it will be fine beer!
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Date: 12 Aug 2006 08:50:25
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Yeast Temp Question
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neal wrote:
> It could be that bringing it back to 72 degrees didn't impact it much,
> the yeast could have been multipling well at 55 degrees. Note also
> that the air-lock bubling is not a good indicator of fermentation
> activity. I can't find it yet, but I read a powerpoint by Mary Beth
> Raines-Casselman on yeast. She indicated not to count on air-lock
> activity for much.
This one?
http://maltosefalcons.com/tech/MB_Raines_Guide_to_Yeast_Culturing.php
----------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 14 Aug 2006 20:50:03
From: Bill Crisafulli
Subject: Re: Yeast Temp Question
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Well, I think I really gave my yeast a roller coaster ride that made them
unhappy.
After raising the temp up to 71, I got a good krausen and it looked like
things were back on track. I then dropped the temperature back down to 57
degrees over the course of about 36 hours. The krausen level dropped as I
would expect, but now a week later I took a SG reading and I've only dropped
from 1.057 to 1.047 and it again appears that there is no activity in the
fermenter...the krausen is gone. I don't use an airlock, rather I use a
sanitary air filter, so I can't see what the CO2 flow rate is, but it looks
to me like I shocked the yeast by dropping the temp too quickly and
fermentation ground to a halt, or at the least a very, very slow one.
So now I am raising the temp back up to see if I can get things started. I
raised the temp controller yesterday and I'm back up to 71, and lo and
behold there is activity in the fermenter. I am kind of scared to screw
with the temperature any further. It seems like this yeast doesn't much
like the recommended fermentation temps in the low to mid 50's. Every time
I've dropped the temps, it goes into hibernation and only kicks back in at
70+ degrees.
I'm the dummy that decided to brew a lager in the summer, so I guess we'll
have a "steam" Oktoberfest...
Bill
"neal" <nrichter@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1155359275.136612.277340@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> Bill Crisafulli wrote:
>> Thing is, I pitched warm (71F) and then dropped it to about 55. After 2+
>> days, no activity. Not a big surprise since I didn't do a starter, but
>> still a bit of a concern that there wasn't any evidence of activity. So
>> I
>> brought it back up to 72 and bingo, fermentation begins. Now I have it
>> back
>> down to 60, and will be dropping it the rest of the way back to 55 today,
>> but a lot of fermentation has occurred, so I am sure this will be a bit
>> of a
>> fruity Oktoberfest.
>
> WLP820 is known to be slow in first generation.
>
> It could be that bringing it back to 72 degrees didn't impact it much,
> the yeast could have been multipling well at 55 degrees. Note also
> that the air-lock bubling is not a good indicator of fermentation
> activity. I can't find it yet, but I read a powerpoint by Mary Beth
> Raines-Casselman on yeast. She indicated not to count on air-lock
> activity for much.
>
> During the yeast growth phase after pitching, the yeast is multiplying
> but not necessarily resperating...
>
> I've pitched lager yeasts with starters and cooled them at a reasonable
> schedule.... but not have an air-lock activity for 48 hours plus.
>
> Wait and see on the 'fruitiness', lagering can clean things up a lot.
> And you may not really see it at all.
>
> Note also that 55 is a bit on the high-side for lagers. I've vote for
> a lower temp near 50F.
>
> Whatever you decide, I'm sure it will be fine beer!
>
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Date: 16 Aug 2006 17:33:36
From: Bill Crisafulli
Subject: Re: Yeast Temp Question
|
After raising the temp and seeing no improved response, I took my aquarium
aeration system and aerated for a while. Lots of foam, a while later it had
all gone away and back to steady state...that is, nothing.
At this point my assumption is that the yeast is dormant and collected at
the bottom of the conical. Seems like I am going to have to either try to
draw off all the yeast through the dump valve at the bottom and repitch it
(assuming it will flow out through the valve), or remove the conical lid and
stir the yeast with a sanitized stainless spoon to get it back into
suspension...and I don't think the spoon is long enough!
Thoughts?
"Bill Crisafulli" <wiscer_remove_this_@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:%l5Eg.7010$1f6.4490@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
> Well, I think I really gave my yeast a roller coaster ride that made them
> unhappy.
>
> After raising the temp up to 71, I got a good krausen and it looked like
> things were back on track. I then dropped the temperature back down to 57
> degrees over the course of about 36 hours. The krausen level dropped as I
> would expect, but now a week later I took a SG reading and I've only
> dropped from 1.057 to 1.047 and it again appears that there is no activity
> in the fermenter...the krausen is gone. I don't use an airlock, rather I
> use a sanitary air filter, so I can't see what the CO2 flow rate is, but
> it looks to me like I shocked the yeast by dropping the temp too quickly
> and fermentation ground to a halt, or at the least a very, very slow one.
>
> So now I am raising the temp back up to see if I can get things started.
> I raised the temp controller yesterday and I'm back up to 71, and lo and
> behold there is activity in the fermenter. I am kind of scared to screw
> with the temperature any further. It seems like this yeast doesn't much
> like the recommended fermentation temps in the low to mid 50's. Every
> time I've dropped the temps, it goes into hibernation and only kicks back
> in at 70+ degrees.
>
> I'm the dummy that decided to brew a lager in the summer, so I guess we'll
> have a "steam" Oktoberfest...
>
> Bill
>
> "neal" <nrichter@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1155359275.136612.277340@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>> Bill Crisafulli wrote:
>>> Thing is, I pitched warm (71F) and then dropped it to about 55. After
>>> 2+
>>> days, no activity. Not a big surprise since I didn't do a starter, but
>>> still a bit of a concern that there wasn't any evidence of activity. So
>>> I
>>> brought it back up to 72 and bingo, fermentation begins. Now I have it
>>> back
>>> down to 60, and will be dropping it the rest of the way back to 55
>>> today,
>>> but a lot of fermentation has occurred, so I am sure this will be a bit
>>> of a
>>> fruity Oktoberfest.
>>
>> WLP820 is known to be slow in first generation.
>>
>> It could be that bringing it back to 72 degrees didn't impact it much,
>> the yeast could have been multipling well at 55 degrees. Note also
>> that the air-lock bubling is not a good indicator of fermentation
>> activity. I can't find it yet, but I read a powerpoint by Mary Beth
>> Raines-Casselman on yeast. She indicated not to count on air-lock
>> activity for much.
>>
>> During the yeast growth phase after pitching, the yeast is multiplying
>> but not necessarily resperating...
>>
>> I've pitched lager yeasts with starters and cooled them at a reasonable
>> schedule.... but not have an air-lock activity for 48 hours plus.
>>
>> Wait and see on the 'fruitiness', lagering can clean things up a lot.
>> And you may not really see it at all.
>>
>> Note also that 55 is a bit on the high-side for lagers. I've vote for
>> a lower temp near 50F.
>>
>> Whatever you decide, I'm sure it will be fine beer!
>>
>
>
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Date: 16 Aug 2006 13:35:23
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: Yeast Temp Question
|
Bill Crisafulli wrote:
> After raising the temp and seeing no improved response, I took my aquarium
> aeration system and aerated for a while. Lots of foam, a while later it had
> all gone away and back to steady state...that is, nothing.
>
> At this point my assumption is that the yeast is dormant and collected at
> the bottom of the conical. Seems like I am going to have to either try to
> draw off all the yeast through the dump valve at the bottom and repitch it
> (assuming it will flow out through the valve), or remove the conical lid and
> stir the yeast with a sanitized stainless spoon to get it back into
> suspension...and I don't think the spoon is long enough!
>
> Thoughts?
You can bag it and try an ale yeast that ferments cleanly. US-56 is a
great yeast (and a dry yeast to boot), that will ferment nicely at
around 60F or even a little cooler.
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!
|
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Date: 18 Aug 2006 15:10:12
From: Bill Crisafulli
Subject: Re: Yeast Temp Question
|
Yesterday, I aerated for about 6 hours (air, not oxygen), and then popped
the lid and stirred it like crazy in the evening. Temp is at 60F. This
morning it appears that life has returned to my fermenter, i can see the
little beasties churning away. Strangely enough, no foam on the surface,
but that might be the foam control that I put in 10 days ago at the start of
this process doin its thing.
Lesson learned...don't drop temps from 72 to 57 too fast...
"The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty" <mikey666@666swampgas.666com >
wrote in message news:44e36546$0$21293$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> Bill Crisafulli wrote:
>> After raising the temp and seeing no improved response, I took my
>> aquarium aeration system and aerated for a while. Lots of foam, a while
>> later it had all gone away and back to steady state...that is, nothing.
>>
>> At this point my assumption is that the yeast is dormant and collected at
>> the bottom of the conical. Seems like I am going to have to either try
>> to draw off all the yeast through the dump valve at the bottom and
>> repitch it (assuming it will flow out through the valve), or remove the
>> conical lid and stir the yeast with a sanitized stainless spoon to get it
>> back into suspension...and I don't think the spoon is long enough!
>>
>> Thoughts?
>
> You can bag it and try an ale yeast that ferments cleanly. US-56 is a
> great yeast (and a dry yeast to boot), that will ferment nicely at around
> 60F or even a little cooler.
>
> --
> (Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
>
> Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
> http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
>
> Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
> Buy several copies today!
|
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Date: 13 Aug 2006 15:55:10
From: neal
Subject: Re: Yeast Temp Question
|
Denny Conn wrote:
> neal wrote:
> > activity. I can't find it yet, but I read a powerpoint by Mary Beth
> > Raines-Casselman on yeast. She indicated not to count on air-lock
> > activity for much.
>
> This one?
>
> http://maltosefalcons.com/tech/MB_Raines_Guide_to_Yeast_Culturing.php
Similar content, however it was a powerpoint file and discussed the
respiration of yeast at various phases of the growth curve... arg, I
can't find it.
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Date: 15 Aug 2006 15:44:02
From: neal
Subject: Re: Yeast Temp Question
|
> I'm the dummy that decided to brew a lager in the summer, so I guess we'll
> have a "steam" Oktoberfest...
>
It will be fine. Some lager yeasts have a favorable performance at
high temps..
-------------- From stpats.com: ------------
"If I want to make a lager in the summer in Texas and must ferment at
room temperature, should I use a lager yeast or an ale yeast?"
I asked this question of a panel of yeast experts (Dave Logsden of
Wyeast, Chris White of White Labs, Mary Beth Raines-Casselman, and John
Maier of Rogue) and every one gave the same answer, "Use the lager
yeast." No ifs, no buts, no hesitation. Amongst homebrew shops, St.
Pat's has been almost single-handedly conveying this advice for the
past 10 years, although some progressive shops have now followed suit.
------------------------------------------------------
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Date: 16 Aug 2006 17:30:06
From: Bill Crisafulli
Subject: Re: Yeast Temp Question
|
That's really interesting. I would have thought the answer would have
universally been "wait until winter"...
"neal" <nrichter@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1155681842.917872.205080@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
>> I'm the dummy that decided to brew a lager in the summer, so I guess
>> we'll
>> have a "steam" Oktoberfest...
>>
>
> It will be fine. Some lager yeasts have a favorable performance at
> high temps..
>
> -------------- From stpats.com: ------------
> "If I want to make a lager in the summer in Texas and must ferment at
> room temperature, should I use a lager yeast or an ale yeast?"
> I asked this question of a panel of yeast experts (Dave Logsden of
> Wyeast, Chris White of White Labs, Mary Beth Raines-Casselman, and John
> Maier of Rogue) and every one gave the same answer, "Use the lager
> yeast." No ifs, no buts, no hesitation. Amongst homebrew shops, St.
> Pat's has been almost single-handedly conveying this advice for the
> past 10 years, although some progressive shops have now followed suit.
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
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Date: 16 Aug 2006 20:11:42
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Yeast Temp Question
|
On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 17:30:06 GMT, <wiscer_remove_this_@hotmail.com > wrote:
> That's really interesting. I would have thought the answer would have
> universally been "wait until winter"...
I'm not sure I would use StPats as a source for trustworthy advice though.
John.
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Date: 16 Aug 2006 13:36:25
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: Yeast Temp Question
|
Bill Crisafulli wrote:
> That's really interesting. I would have thought the answer would have
> universally been "wait until winter"...
That would almost certainly have been a better answer, at least in my
experience.
>
> "neal" <nrichter@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1155681842.917872.205080@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
>>>I'm the dummy that decided to brew a lager in the summer, so I guess
>>>we'll
>>>have a "steam" Oktoberfest...
>>>
>>
>>It will be fine. Some lager yeasts have a favorable performance at
>>high temps..
>>
>>-------------- From stpats.com: ------------
>>"If I want to make a lager in the summer in Texas and must ferment at
>>room temperature, should I use a lager yeast or an ale yeast?"
>>I asked this question of a panel of yeast experts (Dave Logsden of
>>Wyeast, Chris White of White Labs, Mary Beth Raines-Casselman, and John
>>Maier of Rogue) and every one gave the same answer, "Use the lager
>>yeast." No ifs, no buts, no hesitation. Amongst homebrew shops, St.
>>Pat's has been almost single-handedly conveying this advice for the
>>past 10 years, although some progressive shops have now followed suit.
>>------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
>
>
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!
|
| | | |
Date: 16 Aug 2006 11:22:08
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Yeast Temp Question
|
Bill Crisafulli wrote:
>
> That's really interesting. I would have thought the answer would have
> universally been "wait until winter"...
Well, it *is* St. Pat's....I don't care what they say, my own experience
is very different.
-------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
|
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Date: 18 Aug 2006 00:13:48
From: David M. Taylor
Subject: Re: Yeast Temp Question
|
"neal" <nrichter@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1155681842.917872.205080@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
>> I'm the dummy that decided to brew a lager in the summer, so I guess
>> we'll
>> have a "steam" Oktoberfest...
>>
>
> It will be fine. Some lager yeasts have a favorable performance at
> high temps..
I did the same thing a couple of years back, used Superior dry lager yeast,
fermented at about 65 F in July, and it ended up tasting like green apples,
a.k.a., acetaldehyde. The green apple flavor was a bit distracting, but the
beer was still good. I wished I had fermented it cooler. But it was
drinkable.
--
Dave
"Just a drink, a little drink, and I'll be feeling GOOooOOooOOooD!" --
Genesis, 1973-ish
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Date: 16 Aug 2006 15:26:47
From: neal
Subject: Re: Yeast Temp Question
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Denny Conn wrote:
> Well, it *is* St. Pat's....I don't care what they say, my own experience
> is very different.
Is there some back-story on St. Pats that I am missing?
Unless they missquoted all of the people mentioned... ????
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Date: 17 Aug 2006 00:37:23
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Yeast Temp Question
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On 16 Aug 2006 15:26:47 -0700, <nrichter@gmail.com > wrote:
>
> Denny Conn wrote:
>
>> Well, it *is* St. Pat's....I don't care what they say, my own experience
>> is very different.
>
> Is there some back-story on St. Pats that I am missing?
Yes, an extreme backstory. Search for them in this group on groups.google.com
and have fun reading (it'll take awhile). Personally, I think the owner of
St Pats is certifiably insane.
The only advice I would take from them would be in response to "how can I
completely ruin my business reputation as quickly as possible". IMO, they're
an expert in that field.
John.
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Date: 17 Aug 2006 12:45:24
From: Andy McKellar
Subject: Re: Yeast Temp Question
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> On 16 Aug 2006 15:26:47 -0700, <nrichter@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Denny Conn wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Well, it *is* St. Pat's....I don't care what they say, my own
>>> experience is very different.
>>
>> Is there some back-story on St. Pats that I am missing?
>
>
> Yes, an extreme backstory. Search for them in this group on
> groups.google.com and have fun reading (it'll take awhile).
> Personally, I think the owner of St Pats is certifiably insane.
>
> The only advice I would take from them would be in response to "how
> can I completely ruin my business reputation as quickly as possible".
> IMO, they're an expert in that field.
>
My only experience with them was fine -- the transaction was completed
fairly and reasonably quickly, and the only problem was also resolved
quickly. Sorry your -- or anyone else's -- experience was different.
--
-- Andy McKellar
Dallas, TX
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Date: 17 Aug 2006 21:11:19
From: Todd
Subject: Re: Yeast Temp Question
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My first experiance with St. Pat's was a good one. The order was shipped
promptly, and I received everything, and everything was in good order.
If I had quit after the first order, I wouldn't have any complaints.
Todd
"Andy McKellar" <mckellar@airmail.net > wrote in message
news:12e9apm232g7tae@corp.supernews.com...
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> > On 16 Aug 2006 15:26:47 -0700, <nrichter@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Denny Conn wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Well, it *is* St. Pat's....I don't care what they say, my own
> >>> experience is very different.
> >>
> >> Is there some back-story on St. Pats that I am missing?
> >
> >
> > Yes, an extreme backstory. Search for them in this group on
> > groups.google.com and have fun reading (it'll take awhile).
> > Personally, I think the owner of St Pats is certifiably insane.
> >
> > The only advice I would take from them would be in response to "how
> > can I completely ruin my business reputation as quickly as possible".
> > IMO, they're an expert in that field.
> >
> My only experience with them was fine -- the transaction was completed
> fairly and reasonably quickly, and the only problem was also resolved
> quickly. Sorry your -- or anyone else's -- experience was different.
>
> --
> -- Andy McKellar
> Dallas, TX
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Date: 17 Aug 2006 17:42:44
From: Todd
Subject: Re: Yeast Temp Question
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I had a problem with St. Pat's a number of years ago, but it has been long
enough that the details are getting fuzzy. I remember that I got a 33 quart
enamal pot that had a big ding in it, and two or three things were missing
from the items that I ordered.
I called them on the phone to try to get it straightened out, but the guy
who answered the phone said he couldn't handle problems, and that his
manager wasn't in. after several calls, it became clear that the manager
was never going to be "in".
I realized that short of going to Texas, there was no way that I was going
to be able to resolve the problem, and that I had to let it go. At this
point I can't remember what the missing items were and I long ago threw out
the pot, but I'm still mad.
Todd
"John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" <spam@shagg.net > wrote in message
news:slrnee7emt.pie.spam@weizen.shagg.net...
> On 16 Aug 2006 15:26:47 -0700, <nrichter@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Denny Conn wrote:
> >
> >> Well, it *is* St. Pat's....I don't care what they say, my own
experience
> >> is very different.
> >
> > Is there some back-story on St. Pats that I am missing?
>
> Yes, an extreme backstory. Search for them in this group on
groups.google.com
> and have fun reading (it'll take awhile). Personally, I think the owner
of
> St Pats is certifiably insane.
>
> The only advice I would take from them would be in response to "how can I
> completely ruin my business reputation as quickly as possible". IMO,
they're
> an expert in that field.
>
>
> John.
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