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Date: 24 Jul 2006 21:04:37
From: rjwhite6
Subject: When to stop sparging when it's only your second all-grain and it's a kit to hit target O.G?
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This was my second all-grain (22nd batch total).
It was a Doppelbock kit from B3.
It was supposed to be 1.094 @ 75% efficiency.
My first all-grain was my own recipe and I got 75% so I thought I
would get close on efficiency this time.
I was fly sparging (will use batch sparging from now on).
I ended up with 7.5 gallons at an S.G. that hit the 1.094 when boiled
to 5 gallons so I did get 75% again.
I stopped when the last runnings were 0.010.
My question is could I have stopped sparging sooner so that I would
not have had to boil 7.5 gals down to 5 gals?
Could I had stopped when I got 6 gals and hit the O.G when boiled down
to 5 gals?
Would it have been as simple as checking the S.G at 6 gals to see if
the product gave me the gravity points I needed?
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 01:11:08
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: When to stop sparging when it's only your second all-grain and it's a kit to hit target O.G?
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On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 21:04:37 -0400, <rjwhite6@cannedspam.msn.com > wrote:
> I ended up with 7.5 gallons at an S.G. that hit the 1.094 when boiled
> to 5 gallons so I did get 75% again.
>
> I stopped when the last runnings were 0.010.
>
> My question is could I have stopped sparging sooner so that I would
> not have had to boil 7.5 gals down to 5 gals?
You could have stopped sooner, but your efficiency would have been lower
so you wouldn't have gotten the OG you wanted after boiling down.
> Could I had stopped when I got 6 gals and hit the O.G when boiled down
> to 5 gals?
You could have stopped, but your OG would have been lower.
> Would it have been as simple as checking the S.G at 6 gals to see if
> the product gave me the gravity points I needed?
That's a good thing to do in order to keep an eye on how close you are
to your target OG (if your goal is to hit a specific OG). But in this case
since you hit the efficiency right by collecting 7.5 gallons, if you had
calculated it at 6 gallons you would have been under the OG you were
targeting.
Sparging less will lower your efficiency.
John.
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Date: 24 Jul 2006 21:17:29
From: rjwhite6
Subject: Re: When to stop sparging when it's only your second all-grain and it's a kit to hit target O.G?
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On 25 Jul 2006 01:11:08 GMT, John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <spam@shagg.net >
wrote:
>On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 21:04:37 -0400, <rjwhite6@cannedspam.msn.com> wrote:
>> I ended up with 7.5 gallons at an S.G. that hit the 1.094 when boiled
>> to 5 gallons so I did get 75% again.
>>
>> I stopped when the last runnings were 0.010.
>>
>> My question is could I have stopped sparging sooner so that I would
>> not have had to boil 7.5 gals down to 5 gals?
>
>You could have stopped sooner, but your efficiency would have been lower
>so you wouldn't have gotten the OG you wanted after boiling down.
>
>> Could I had stopped when I got 6 gals and hit the O.G when boiled down
>> to 5 gals?
>
>You could have stopped, but your OG would have been lower.
>
>> Would it have been as simple as checking the S.G at 6 gals to see if
>> the product gave me the gravity points I needed?
>
>That's a good thing to do in order to keep an eye on how close you are
>to your target OG (if your goal is to hit a specific OG). But in this case
>since you hit the efficiency right by collecting 7.5 gallons, if you had
>calculated it at 6 gallons you would have been under the OG you were
>targeting.
>
>Sparging less will lower your efficiency.
>
>
>John.
Thanks John.
This being my second all-grain and a kit, how would you suggest I went
at it?
Go for 6 gal and O.G. is what it is?
Try to get the targeted O.G?
Or other strategy?
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 17:33:30
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: When to stop sparging when it's only your second all-grain and it's a kit to hit target O.G?
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On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 21:17:29 -0400, <rjwhite6@cannedspam.msn.com > wrote:
> This being my second all-grain and a kit, how would you suggest I went
> at it?
>
> Go for 6 gal and O.G. is what it is?
> Try to get the targeted O.G?
Both are valid goals, it depends on what you like/prefer. Some people
shoot for volume, other's shoot for OG. It's really up to you, there isn't
a "right" and "wrong" answer to that. The good news is that after you've
been brewing for awhile and get a handle on how your efficiency works,
you'll learn how to do both at the same time by adjusting the recipe.
IOW, advanced all grain brewers don't generally make a recipe "as is". They
tinker with the amount of grains to make it match their own system. That way
they can get the OG the recipe calls for while also hitting the volume
they want. You do this by comparing the efficiency of your system versus
the efficiency of the recipe, and then modify the recipe so that the two
efficiencies are the same.
I wouldn't get too worried about it on only your second all grain batch
though. IMO, going for volume is easier but the beer may not come out
exactly as the recipe intended. This is what I did before I understood
enough to start modifying things.
John.
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 11:19:54
From: Ryan Case
Subject: Re: When to stop sparging when it's only your second all-grain and
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 21:17:29 -0400, <rjwhite6@cannedspam.msn.com> wrote:
>> This being my second all-grain and a kit, how would you suggest I went
>> at it?
>>
>> Go for 6 gal and O.G. is what it is?
>> Try to get the targeted O.G?
>
> Both are valid goals, it depends on what you like/prefer. Some people
> shoot for volume, other's shoot for OG. It's really up to you, there isn't
> a "right" and "wrong" answer to that. The good news is that after you've
> been brewing for awhile and get a handle on how your efficiency works,
> you'll learn how to do both at the same time by adjusting the recipe.
>
> IOW, advanced all grain brewers don't generally make a recipe "as is". They
> tinker with the amount of grains to make it match their own system. That way
> they can get the OG the recipe calls for while also hitting the volume
> they want. You do this by comparing the efficiency of your system versus
> the efficiency of the recipe, and then modify the recipe so that the two
> efficiencies are the same.
This is where I like spreadsheets a lot. And creating them caused me to
learn a lot about brewing and the different maths involved in it. I
would say that anyone considering going all grain should sit down and
learn enough to make a spreadsheet that calculates efficiency based on
OG and a grain bill.
Then the step from there to a spreadsheet that takes a recipe with a
brewhouse efficiency stated and converts it to your brewhouse's
efficiency is a natural step.
Yes I know that good beer can be made without learning/doing any of
that. But, I tend to be one of the guys that wants to know what is going
on under the hood. It just puts me at ease to understand the why when I
look at the how.
Ryan
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 19:03:58
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: When to stop sparging when it's only your second all-grain and it's a kit to hit target O.G?
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On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 11:19:54 -0700, <usenet@jamesrobert.us > wrote:
> Yes I know that good beer can be made without learning/doing any of
> that. But, I tend to be one of the guys that wants to know what is going
> on under the hood. It just puts me at ease to understand the why when I
> look at the how.
I agree, but rather than using spreadsheets I just calculate it all out
by hand. It's the same principle though, just two different roads to get
to the same place. Personally, I can do it on paper but wouldn't have
the first clue of how to put it all into something like Excel. I guess
that's kind of weird considering I'm a computer guy.
John.
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 12:31:07
From: Ryan Case
Subject: Re: When to stop sparging when it's only your second all-grain and
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 11:19:54 -0700, <usenet@jamesrobert.us> wrote:
>> Yes I know that good beer can be made without learning/doing any of
>> that. But, I tend to be one of the guys that wants to know what is going
>> on under the hood. It just puts me at ease to understand the why when I
>> look at the how.
>
> I agree, but rather than using spreadsheets I just calculate it all out
> by hand. It's the same principle though, just two different roads to get
> to the same place. Personally, I can do it on paper but wouldn't have
> the first clue of how to put it all into something like Excel. I guess
> that's kind of weird considering I'm a computer guy.
Not really, our IT guy here is scary smart. He can program in something
like six languages, has an Mechanical Engineering degree, used to do
HVAC design for Boeing projects, etc. etc. But he probably couldn't draw
a square with our CADD package. It is all a matter of what you use
everyday.
Let me know if you would like a copy of my excel sheet. It is set up to
figure infusion mash steps and effeciencies and convert recipes based on
your effeciency vs. the recipe author's. It doesn't touch hops yet, I am
still working on that.
The return addy is valid.
Ryan
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Date: 26 Jul 2006 00:27:36
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: When to stop sparging when it's only your second all-grain and it's a kit to hit target O.G?
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On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:31:07 -0700, <usenet@jamesrobert.us > wrote:
> Let me know if you would like a copy of my excel sheet. It is set up to
> figure infusion mash steps and effeciencies and convert recipes based on
> your effeciency vs. the recipe author's. It doesn't touch hops yet, I am
> still working on that.
Thank you for the offer, but the method I use now works well enough for me.
John.
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Date: 26 Jul 2006 06:29:39
From: Ryan Case
Subject: Re: When to stop sparging when it's only your second all-grain and
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:31:07 -0700, <usenet@jamesrobert.us> wrote:
>> Let me know if you would like a copy of my excel sheet. It is set up to
>> figure infusion mash steps and effeciencies and convert recipes based on
>> your effeciency vs. the recipe author's. It doesn't touch hops yet, I am
>> still working on that.
>
> Thank you for the offer, but the method I use now works well enough for me.
>
>
No problem, I assumed that would be your answer. But it seemed almost
rude to me not to offer anyway.
Cheers,
Ryan
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Date: 26 Jul 2006 15:50:55
From: Josh Button
Subject: Re: When to stop sparging when it's only your second all-grain and it's a kit to hit target O.G?
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Email sent Ryan.
--
Josh Button
To see how the Penrith Gaels Cricket Club is going...
http://penrithgaelscc.4t.com
"Ryan Case" <usenet@jamesrobert.us > wrote in message
news:12ccsbsclpdk423@corp.supernews.com...
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>> On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 11:19:54 -0700, <usenet@jamesrobert.us> wrote:
>>> Yes I know that good beer can be made without learning/doing any of
>>> that. But, I tend to be one of the guys that wants to know what is going
>>> on under the hood. It just puts me at ease to understand the why when I
>>> look at the how.
>>
>> I agree, but rather than using spreadsheets I just calculate it all out
>> by hand. It's the same principle though, just two different roads to get
>> to the same place. Personally, I can do it on paper but wouldn't have
>> the first clue of how to put it all into something like Excel. I guess
>> that's kind of weird considering I'm a computer guy.
>
> Not really, our IT guy here is scary smart. He can program in something
> like six languages, has an Mechanical Engineering degree, used to do HVAC
> design for Boeing projects, etc. etc. But he probably couldn't draw a
> square with our CADD package. It is all a matter of what you use everyday.
>
> Let me know if you would like a copy of my excel sheet. It is set up to
> figure infusion mash steps and effeciencies and convert recipes based on
> your effeciency vs. the recipe author's. It doesn't touch hops yet, I am
> still working on that.
>
> The return addy is valid.
>
> Ryan
>
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Date: 26 Jul 2006 07:56:42
From: Larry Bristol
Subject: Re: When to stop sparging when it's only your second all-grain and it's a kit to hit target O.G?
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rjwhite6 wrote:
> [...]
> I stopped when the last runnings were 0.010.
The "simplest" answer is to stop sparging when you reach the volume you want
to boil.
The "best" answer is to watch the pH of the runoff, and stop sparging before
it rises to 6. The reason is that as the pH rises during the runoff, the
likelihood of leaching tannin out of the grain husks also rises.
It is rather difficult to take a hydrometer reading at the relatively high
temperature of the runoff. The temperature adjustment becomes more
complicated as you move farther away from 60F; it is *not* a linear
adjustment. The easiest way to measure runoff is with a temperature
compensating refractometer. [OK, so maybe you don't have one, but once you
start using one, you'll wonder how you ever got along without it!]
> My question is could I have stopped sparging sooner so that I would
> not have had to boil 7.5 gals down to 5 gals?
> Could I had stopped when I got 6 gals and hit the O.G when boiled down
> to 5 gals?
Let's suppose your gravity at 6 gallons is 1.078. If you boil that down to
5 gallons, its gravity will be 1.094, right?
Let's suppose your gravity at 7.5 gallons is 1.063. If you boil that down
to 5 gallons, its gravity would be 1.095.
OK, let's make it more complicated. Let's start with 6 gallons at 1.078 as
above. Let's assume your runoff is 1.015, but will drop to 1.010 during
the next 1.5 gallons. So you have 6 gallons at 1.078 plus 1.5 gallons at
(average) 1.0125, which will yield 7.5 gallons at 1.062. Boil that down to
5 gallons, and you have 1.093. Hmm...
> Would it have been as simple as checking the S.G at 6 gals to see if
> the product gave me the gravity points I needed?
Absolutely!
The "practical" answer is simple. Taste the runoff periodically. If there
is any sugar present, you will taste it. Feel free to keep sparging as
long as you taste sugar if efficiency is really important to you! If you
do not taste sugar, however, further sparging is a complete waste of time,
regardless of how much (or how little) you have collected.
Hope this helps!
--
Larry Bristol --- The Double Luck
http://www.doubleluck.com
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Date: 26 Jul 2006 09:38:13
From: Dan Listermann
Subject: Re: When to stop sparging when it's only your second all-grain and it's a kit to hit target O.G?
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The method I use is to take hydrometer readings at the temperature that the
wort is running and stop the flow when the reading is 1.000. Corrected,
this is usually very near 1.010, the traditional cutoff point. It is fast,
easy and reliable.
Dan Listermann
"Larry Bristol" <larry.remove@remove.doubleluck.com > wrote in message
news:12cepkb8jp9s0ce@corp.supernews.com...
> rjwhite6 wrote:
>
>> [...]
>> I stopped when the last runnings were 0.010.
>
> The "simplest" answer is to stop sparging when you reach the volume you
> want
> to boil.
>
> The "best" answer is to watch the pH of the runoff, and stop sparging
> before
> it rises to 6. The reason is that as the pH rises during the runoff, the
> likelihood of leaching tannin out of the grain husks also rises.
>
> It is rather difficult to take a hydrometer reading at the relatively high
> temperature of the runoff. The temperature adjustment becomes more
> complicated as you move farther away from 60F; it is *not* a linear
> adjustment. The easiest way to measure runoff is with a temperature
> compensating refractometer. [OK, so maybe you don't have one, but once
> you
> start using one, you'll wonder how you ever got along without it!]
>
>> My question is could I have stopped sparging sooner so that I would
>> not have had to boil 7.5 gals down to 5 gals?
>> Could I had stopped when I got 6 gals and hit the O.G when boiled down
>> to 5 gals?
>
> Let's suppose your gravity at 6 gallons is 1.078. If you boil that down
> to
> 5 gallons, its gravity will be 1.094, right?
>
> Let's suppose your gravity at 7.5 gallons is 1.063. If you boil that down
> to 5 gallons, its gravity would be 1.095.
>
> OK, let's make it more complicated. Let's start with 6 gallons at 1.078
> as
> above. Let's assume your runoff is 1.015, but will drop to 1.010 during
> the next 1.5 gallons. So you have 6 gallons at 1.078 plus 1.5 gallons at
> (average) 1.0125, which will yield 7.5 gallons at 1.062. Boil that down
> to
> 5 gallons, and you have 1.093. Hmm...
>
>> Would it have been as simple as checking the S.G at 6 gals to see if
>> the product gave me the gravity points I needed?
>
> Absolutely!
>
> The "practical" answer is simple. Taste the runoff periodically. If
> there
> is any sugar present, you will taste it. Feel free to keep sparging as
> long as you taste sugar if efficiency is really important to you! If you
> do not taste sugar, however, further sparging is a complete waste of time,
> regardless of how much (or how little) you have collected.
>
> Hope this helps!
>
> --
> Larry Bristol --- The Double Luck
> http://www.doubleluck.com
>
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