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Date: 31 Jul 2006 05:23:39
From: Adam Preble
Subject: When should I rack this lager?
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I need some help making a judgement call here, based on the
circumstances I have for lagering at this time. I have 10 gallons of a
light American lager that is nearing the end of the primary. 4 days ago
it reported 20 gravity points, and it was 10 points this evening--it
started at 42. I mashed for a dry beer and hope to see this drop some more.
There is also the diacetyl rest. I don't notice the taste in the beer
but I was thinking of letting it warm up anyways to exploit other
things. The first reason would be for the rest as a precaution. The
second would be so I could crash chill it. The third is to coax the
yeast along with a warmer substance. I have trouble maintaining 55F in
my kegerator, but 50F is consistent. I think this affects my
attenuation; my last light lager as a few points higher than I wanted
and it fermented at 50F too.
Would I expect off-flavors if I let the beer warm to room temperature
for the last few gravity points? As of right now, the beer has that
slight husky flavor from the decion mash and is a little more bitter
than last time (by design). Given how unforgiving these styles can be,
I don't want to mess it up. I also don't want to negatively influence
clarity.
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Date: 31 Jul 2006 22:16:32
From: Warren Place
Subject: Re: When should I rack this lager?
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On Mon, 31 Jul 2006, Adam Preble wrote:
> I need some help making a judgement call here, based on the
> circumstances I have for lagering at this time. I have 10 gallons of a
> light American lager that is nearing the end of the primary.
What yeast? I'd let it warm for a D-rest and I doubt you'll get much
ester formation as there is very little sugar left. Also, it is important
to get the beer finished and get it off the yeast before you get autolysis
occuring.
Warren Place
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Date: 01 Aug 2006 05:33:09
From: Adam Preble
Subject: Re: When should I rack this lager?
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Warren Place wrote:
> What yeast? I'd let it warm for a D-rest and I doubt you'll get much
> ester formation as there is very little sugar left. Also, it is important
> to get the beer finished and get it off the yeast before you get autolysis
> occuring.
> Warren Place
The yeast is WLP Budejovice strain--number 802. I measured again
tonight and didn't see much difference. I'm thinking that the worst
case is I could throw in a packet of Nottingham Ale yeast because strain
is very aggressive in my experience. I shut off the fridge a few
moments ago so it should start rising overnight.
What I'm starting to fear is I got a dextrous mash somehow. I did a
rest at 155F at the end to try to pull any last bits out. Here's the
schedule since that'll probably come up too:
100F 30min single infusion
122F 5min single infusion
decion 139F 30min, boil 30min
139F 5min
decion 145F 30min, boil 30min
145F 5min
decion 155F 30min, boil 30min
155F 30min
168F sparge
When I show 5 minutes, what I mean is the main mash stabilizes at that
temp before I take thick mash for the decion. So the leftover mash
will continue to rest at that temperature for about 70 minutes as I do
the separate decions.
I did a protein rest because I'm using homemade corn malt.
The beer right now does taste all right, but the residual sweetness
softens it a lot. I think a dryer beer would taste better and proper.
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Date: 01 Aug 2006 18:14:19
From: Warren Place
Subject: Re: When should I rack this lager?
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On Tue, 1 Aug 2006, Adam Preble wrote:
> The yeast is WLP Budejovice strain--number 802. I measured again
> tonight and didn't see much difference. I'm thinking that the worst
> case is I could throw in a packet of Nottingham Ale yeast because strain
> is very aggressive in my experience. I shut off the fridge a few
> moments ago so it should start rising overnight.
>
> What I'm starting to fear is I got a dextrous mash somehow. I did a
> rest at 155F at the end to try to pull any last bits out. Here's the
> schedule since that'll probably come up too:
>
> 100F 30min single infusion
> 122F 5min single infusion
> decion 139F 30min, boil 30min
> 139F 5min
> decion 145F 30min, boil 30min
> 145F 5min
> decion 155F 30min, boil 30min
> 155F 30min
> 168F sparge
>
> When I show 5 minutes, what I mean is the main mash stabilizes at that
> temp before I take thick mash for the decion. So the leftover mash
> will continue to rest at that temperature for about 70 minutes as I do
> the separate decions.
> The beer right now does taste all right, but the residual sweetness
> softens it a lot. I think a dryer beer would taste better and proper.
Could the sweetness just be from the corn you included in the recipe.
Beers with corn always have a sweet aroma to me and it seems to make the
beer seem sweeter than it might otherwise. You spent a lot of time in low
mash temperatures so your wort should be highly fermentable (assuming you
used good malt). I haven't used this yeast so I can't say how it
performs. White labs describes it as 75-80% attenuation, but those lab
conditions might be very different than what you have. Warming for
several days might help. New yeast might also help, but I don't think I
would use a dry ale yeast. Have you tried rousing the yeast? Also, since
there might be a lot of corn in you beer, maybe a light nutrient addition
would be helpful. Something like Superfood (but not yeast extract)
http://morebeer.com/browse.html?category_id=1057&keyword=&x=1&y=1
This may do more harm than good in a light beer as some yeast energizers
can lend a flavor if not used carefully.
Warren Place
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Date: 02 Aug 2006 06:52:53
From: Adam Preble
Subject: Re: When should I rack this lager?
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Warren Place wrote:
> Could the sweetness just be from the corn you included in the recipe.
> Beers with corn always have a sweet aroma to me and it seems to make the
> beer seem sweeter than it might otherwise. You spent a lot of time in low
It has a sweetness to it but I'm seeing it in the measurements too. I
measure about 1.010 now, which is too high from what I can determine.
It's sitting out at room temperature now, and haven't seen much change
in the past 2 days.
> mash temperatures so your wort should be highly fermentable (assuming you
> used good malt). I haven't used this yeast so I can't say how it
Well I can't say the malt is necessarily good. There was quite a
variance in how well it was modified. Some over, some under, and some
just right.
> performs. White labs describes it as 75-80% attenuation, but those lab
> conditions might be very different than what you have. Warming for
> several days might help. New yeast might also help, but I don't think I
> would use a dry ale yeast. Have you tried rousing the yeast? Also, since
I am wondering if I have a packet of saflager yeast here that I could
try. I might repitch.
Rousing the yeast?
> there might be a lot of corn in you beer, maybe a light nutrient addition
> would be helpful. Something like Superfood (but not yeast extract)
> http://morebeer.com/browse.html?category_id=1057&keyword=&x=1&y=1
> This may do more harm than good in a light beer as some yeast energizers
> can lend a flavor if not used carefully.
There's a lot of corn, but that's malted corn. I have some wine yeast
nutrient which I think could help in sparing amounts. Does that cause
problems when used in beer?
The one ace in my sleeve is to shake these bastards, which I am about to
do before going to bed. I don't want to leave them in the cornies
forever. I think they aren't well sealed since I think I hear lit
popping from a fitting; assuming that's released CO2. I never got a
bubble out of my hoses leading to a jug of water. I was planning to put
them in carboys, improve the fittings, and then rack back in to the
cleaned, sealed cornies in order to lager properly.
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Date: 02 Aug 2006 15:32:41
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: When should I rack this lager?
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On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 06:52:53 GMT, <rockobonaparte@hotmail.com > wrote:
> The one ace in my sleeve is to shake these bastards, which I am about to
> do before going to bed. I don't want to leave them in the cornies
> forever. I think they aren't well sealed since I think I hear lit
> popping from a fitting; assuming that's released CO2. I never got a
> bubble out of my hoses leading to a jug of water. I was planning to put
> them in carboys, improve the fittings, and then rack back in to the
> cleaned, sealed cornies in order to lager properly.
Did you pressurize the cornies? Corny lids are designed to need internal
pressure in order to seal. IMO, lagering in cornies is fine but you
should do it with the beer carbonated.
John.
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