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Date: 27 Sep 2006 04:07:00
From:
Subject: What the "F*#%"?
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I guess I'm just fishin for some opinions on this one gang. For those
of you that recognize me you know I've been brewing for quite a while
and eventhough I don't get to brew as often as most of you do I know
and understand the entire process and most of the do's and don'ts that
we all talk about on a daily basis. My question here is can an lightly
infected starter be overtaken by active yeast activity and thus be
eliminated? In my opinion I don't think so, but hey I'm fishing here.
You see I decided to brew this belgian tripple that called for wyeast
1214 which I picked up and created a one gallon starter with. Yeah I
know a bit large sure but why not. Just before I pitched I like to give
everything a good close over look and and noticed this particular
stater had a somewhat strong acid smell. Knowing I was VERY carefull
and did NOT allow any chance for infection during the previous steps I
proceeded to pitch. Well, that same smell began to waft from the
airlock during primary and I thought for sure it was somehow a lacto
infection. Well, lo and behold it's now time to bottle or keg and it's
gone! What the fu#%? I've had several that put off a sulfery smell but
I guess the byproduct of this particular yeast gives off that acid like
smell. For those of you that have had a batch go south on you with a
lacto infection you know what smell I'm talking about. I guess that
this is one that's new to me. Opinions?
Steve
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Date: 27 Sep 2006 14:45:25
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: What the "F*#%"?
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On 27 Sep 2006 04:07:00 -0700, <smhoneydo@aol.com > wrote:
> I guess I'm just fishin for some opinions on this one gang. For those
> of you that recognize me you know I've been brewing for quite a while
> and eventhough I don't get to brew as often as most of you do I know
> and understand the entire process and most of the do's and don'ts that
> we all talk about on a daily basis. My question here is can an lightly
> infected starter be overtaken by active yeast activity and thus be
> eliminated?
I don't think yeast will actually kill bacteria, so it won't be eliminated
in that sense. Most homebrew contains at least some bacteria since it's
nearly impossible to be sterile in a home environment. In that sense, all
homebrew is "infected". The yeast usually will out compete the bacteria
so that the levels never grow high enough to have any significant impact
on the beer. If the bacteria does get high enough to start effecting
the beer, I don't think yeast will "undo" the damage. At least, not that
I know of.
> You see I decided to brew this belgian tripple that called for wyeast
> 1214 which I picked up and created a one gallon starter with. Yeah I
> know a bit large sure but why not. Just before I pitched I like to give
> everything a good close over look and and noticed this particular
> stater had a somewhat strong acid smell. Knowing I was VERY carefull
> and did NOT allow any chance for infection during the previous steps I
> proceeded to pitch.
Starters can be a bit weird. Since we're not really making a beer with
the starter itself (no hops, just DME, usually ignore rules about
fermentation temps), it can often have some strange flavors/smells. Even
a normal beer can have some strange flavors/smells during the fermentation.
> Well, that same smell began to waft from the
> airlock during primary and I thought for sure it was somehow a lacto
> infection. Well, lo and behold it's now time to bottle or keg and it's
> gone! What the fu#%? I've had several that put off a sulfery smell but
> I guess the byproduct of this particular yeast gives off that acid like
> smell. For those of you that have had a batch go south on you with a
> lacto infection you know what smell I'm talking about. I guess that
> this is one that's new to me. Opinions?
It was probably never infected, you just noticed a strange aroma
from the fermentation. IMO, probably nothing to worry about.
John.
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Date: 27 Sep 2006 13:03:10
From: Joel
Subject: Re: What the "F*#%"?
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<smhoneydo@aol.com > wrote:
>My question here is can an lightly
>infected starter be overtaken by active yeast activity and thus be
>eliminated? In my opinion I don't think so, but hey I'm fishing here.
I don't think so, either.
>...stater had a somewhat strong acid smell. Knowing I was VERY carefull
>and did NOT allow any chance for infection during the previous steps I
>proceeded to pitch. Well, that same smell began to waft from the
>airlock during primary and I thought for sure it was somehow a lacto
>infection. Well, lo and behold it's now time to bottle or keg and it's
>gone!
I have on occasion used a starter that had an unusual
odor. Not specifically lactic, acetic, etc., just not
like most other yeasts I use. If it's a yeast I'm not
familiar with, I figure it just may be the yeast. I've
never had problems when I did so.
--
Joel Plutchak
"Things just fall apart." - Now They'll Sleep (Belly)
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Date: 28 Sep 2006 08:31:44
From: Bryan Heit
Subject: Re: What the "F*#%"?
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smhoneydo@aol.com wrote:
> My question here is can an lightly
> infected starter be overtaken by active yeast activity and thus be
> eliminated? In my opinion I don't think so, but hey I'm fishing here.
In theory, yeast can do this. Yeast (along with pretty much every other
life form out there, including us) produce a range of antimicrobial
peptides (small proteins) which they use to compete with other
microorganisms. Most of these work by "popping" holes in the
opposition. Yeast are no exception, including AFAIK brewers yeast.
But in reality yeast probably won't be able to sterilize a starer.
Generally speaking, these antimicrobial peptides are designed to work
over short distances in biofilms (that sticky, slimy stuff that grows on
rocks in streams, etc).
As for the smell, I think the others have hit it on the head. Just
normal yeasty smells under less then idea conditions.
Bryan
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Date: 28 Sep 2006 17:04:50
From:
Subject: Re: What the "F*#%"?
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Bryan Heit wrote:
> smhoneydo@aol.com wrote:
> > My question here is can an lightly
> > infected starter be overtaken by active yeast activity and thus be
> > eliminated? In my opinion I don't think so, but hey I'm fishing here.
>
> In theory, yeast can do this. Yeast (along with pretty much every other
> life form out there, including us) produce a range of antimicrobial
> peptides (small proteins) which they use to compete with other
> microorganisms. Most of these work by "popping" holes in the
> opposition. Yeast are no exception, including AFAIK brewers yeast.
>
> But in reality yeast probably won't be able to sterilize a starer.
> Generally speaking, these antimicrobial peptides are designed to work
> over short distances in biofilms (that sticky, slimy stuff that grows on
> rocks in streams, etc).
>
> As for the smell, I think the others have hit it on the head. Just
> normal yeasty smells under less then idea conditions.
>
> Bryan
Well, Ok then. I'm gonna ride with that! I tasted several samples
of the now completed beer and it taste fine! I guess I was off base
with my asumptions. Thanks for the input gang I feel better about it
already. Ahhh, BEER ain't it fun?
Steve
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