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Date: 14 Jun 2006 01:17:26
From: Adam Preble
Subject: What is crispness and how can it be controlled?
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I have seen lagers described as "crisp" and I don't feel I fully
understand that flavor. It seems to be strongly influenced by the
water, and then partially influenced by hops and carbonation. I like to
make a Mexican pilsener, and I don't think I got the flavor.
I didn't condition the water, as the pH that I calculated for it (I
think howtobrew has that pH chart) roughly estimates my water is good
for making lighter beers. I can try to dig up a water report if there
is interest to check.
My last Mexican pilsener wasn't very hopped. The one before that was
hopped such that it tasted very close to Sapporo--not by design. I'm
afraid to add to many more hops because they come out so strong in such
a light beer.
Something I found on BYO makes me think there's an acidity issue
involved. That is, actually adding some citric acid will contribute
crispness. Is this a well-understood practice?
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Date: 14 Jun 2006 11:07:24
From: Drew Avis
Subject: Re: What is crispness and how can it be controlled?
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"Adam Preble" <rockobonaparte@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:GsJjg.25066$0v4.23832@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>I have seen lagers described as "crisp" and I don't feel I fully understand
>that flavor. It seems to be strongly influenced by the water, and then
>partially influenced by hops and carbonation. I like to make a Mexican
>pilsener, and I don't think I got the flavor.
I would say that's essentially it. A "crisp" beer is one with no lingering
malt sweetness, so it's pretty dry & low in dextrines. Not overly hopped,
either. I think you're aiming for a BU:GU of about .3-.5 (depending on the
style), without a lot of flavour hops, low malt and caramel malt character,
high attenuation, and a degree of conditioning/lagering. Low sulphate water
will help too.
> Something I found on BYO makes me think there's an acidity issue involved.
> That is, actually adding some citric acid will contribute crispness. Is
> this a well-understood practice?
No. Some styles add acidity with either an acid rest in the mash (rare) or
acidulated malt -- some wit recipes, for example. I don't think acid has
much of a place in a mexican lager, except perhaps in small amounts added to
the sparge water to keep sparge pH down.
Drew
www.strangebrew.ca
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Date: 14 Jun 2006 04:41:06
From: MarkMc
Subject: Re: What is crispness and how can it be controlled?
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Hi Adam
I'm from the UK, and not terribly familiar with Mexican brews, but I
read a book a while back on Vienna lagers, and it seemed to suggest
that a lot of Mexican lagers are if fact made in the Vienna style, and
not the Pilsener style, perhaps you may get closer to what you're
looking for if you try to brew a Vienna style lager?
'Crispness' to me for a lager would suggest a noble hoppiness, which
perhaps would mean Saaz hops in the late addition? However, Vienna
lagers IIRC are meant to be more malty/balanced, with Pilsener types
being the hoppiest lager style.
Do you check your mash pH? If this is in the right ball park (not sure
for a lager) say pH 5.2-5.8 from (my very dodgy) memory, then I'd say
water composition isn't your issue, unless your water is high in
sulphates or something like that, which would definitely give you an
accentuated hop 'bite' characteristic.
If your pH is too high, then you'll want to remove some alkalinity
(HCO3/bicarbonate probably), I find this is best done with acid
treatment - I use brupaks CRS (aka AMS?) which I think is a mix of food
safe Hydrochloric and Sulphuric acid, and therefore has very little
flavour impact.
Perhaps if you publish the recipe you are making and your mash and boil
schedules, somebody might be able to spot something to help you.
Regards,
Mark
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Date: 14 Jun 2006 16:32:34
From: Droopy
Subject: Re: What is crispness and how can it be controlled?
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Crispness generally refers to the beer as being low in esters. It is
the opposite of fruity and is generally associated with lagers. Hops
can accentuate both fruitiness and crispness. A low ester contribution
from hops will accentuate cripsness as well. Water that is high in
sulfate will also produce a crisper beer as sulfate accentuates hop
bitterness.
Adam Preble wrote:
> I have seen lagers described as "crisp" and I don't feel I fully
> understand that flavor. It seems to be strongly influenced by the
> water, and then partially influenced by hops and carbonation. I like to
> make a Mexican pilsener, and I don't think I got the flavor.
>
> I didn't condition the water, as the pH that I calculated for it (I
> think howtobrew has that pH chart) roughly estimates my water is good
> for making lighter beers. I can try to dig up a water report if there
> is interest to check.
>
> My last Mexican pilsener wasn't very hopped. The one before that was
> hopped such that it tasted very close to Sapporo--not by design. I'm
> afraid to add to many more hops because they come out so strong in such
> a light beer.
>
> Something I found on BYO makes me think there's an acidity issue
> involved. That is, actually adding some citric acid will contribute
> crispness. Is this a well-understood practice?
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Date: 15 Jun 2006 11:54:14
From: yddraig
Subject: Re: What is crispness and how can it be controlled?
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Adam Preble wrote:
> I have seen lagers described as "crisp" and I don't feel I fully
> understand that flavor. It seems to be strongly influenced by the
> water, and then partially influenced by hops and carbonation. I like to
> make a Mexican pilsener, and I don't think I got the flavor.
>
> I didn't condition the water, as the pH that I calculated for it (I
> think howtobrew has that pH chart) roughly estimates my water is good
> for making lighter beers. I can try to dig up a water report if there
> is interest to check.
>
> My last Mexican pilsener wasn't very hopped. The one before that was
> hopped such that it tasted very close to Sapporo--not by design. I'm
> afraid to add to many more hops because they come out so strong in such
> a light beer.
>
> Something I found on BYO makes me think there's an acidity issue
> involved. That is, actually adding some citric acid will contribute
> crispness. Is this a well-understood practice?
Crispness also has to do with the clarity and harmony of the flavors.
If you introduce components that clash, flavor wise, or are
un-complementary you "muddy" the flavor and reduce the crispness. Acid
and carbonation enhance the brightness.
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Date: 15 Jun 2006 10:36:04
From: Scott L
Subject: Re: What is crispness and how can it be controlled?
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Droopy wrote:
> Crispness generally refers to the beer as being low in esters. It is
> the opposite of fruity and is generally associated with lagers.
This is true, but in my mind sweetness and FG are also associated with
the sensation of crispness. A dopplebock has practically no esters in
it but I wouldn't describe it as crisp.
Scott
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Date: 17 Jun 2006 09:37:18
From: Dr. Nick
Subject: Re: What is crispness and how can it be controlled?
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The secret to crispness is the source of the malt. Have you tried
Crisp Malt (www.crispmalt.info)?
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
-Nick
Adam Preble wrote:
> I have seen lagers described as "crisp" and I don't feel I fully
> understand that flavor. It seems to be strongly influenced by the
> water, and then partially influenced by hops and carbonation. I like to
> make a Mexican pilsener, and I don't think I got the flavor.
>
> I didn't condition the water, as the pH that I calculated for it (I
> think howtobrew has that pH chart) roughly estimates my water is good
> for making lighter beers. I can try to dig up a water report if there
> is interest to check.
>
> My last Mexican pilsener wasn't very hopped. The one before that was
> hopped such that it tasted very close to Sapporo--not by design. I'm
> afraid to add to many more hops because they come out so strong in such
> a light beer.
>
> Something I found on BYO makes me think there's an acidity issue
> involved. That is, actually adding some citric acid will contribute
> crispness. Is this a well-understood practice?
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