What do you guys think of this?

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Date: 25 Nov 2006 23:44:47
From: Tony M
Subject: What do you guys think of this?

Check it out.
http://www.ntotank.com/15gacobota.html
I'm thinking about upgrading to a conical after my recent carboy accident.
The price includes a stand but not shipping. (I'm not affiliated with this
company, I just found them on the web and thought I'd share) Are there
better/cheaper sources for these that I can't find? Thanks,
Tony

--

-= PROCRASTINATE (pro.cras.ti.nate) To drag one's ass in such a pathetic
manner as to ensure one's place in life as a loser. - Bobby Long =-

Date: 26 Nov 2006 10:21:32
From: Tom Biasi
Subject: Re: What do you guys think of this?

Date: 26 Nov 2006 15:04:49
From: Brian Foster
Subject: Re: What do you guys think of this?

"Tony M" <fakeemail@null.com > wrote in message
news:fZmdnQkeqNpC2PTYnZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Check it out.
> http://www.ntotank.com/15gacobota.html
> I'm thinking about upgrading to a conical after my recent carboy accident.
> The price includes a stand but not shipping. (I'm not affiliated with this
> company, I just found them on the web and thought I'd share) Are there
> better/cheaper sources for these that I can't find? Thanks,
> Tony

Looks pretty cool.

27 lbs + weight of steel rack (?) 10-15lbs + weight of wort @ 8lbs/gal
27+15+40= 82 lbs pretty heavy

How will you control temp for fermentation?

2" fitting for the bottom, I'm assuming a trip to the hardware store should
set you up pretty well for that but I'm curious what you'd use in an ideal
situation?

You will still be way ahead of buying a SS one (these guys claim to have the
best price):
http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?cPath=178_53_146&products_id=2265

I don't see why plastic can't work as well as SS as long as you are very
careful cleaning it (scratch the plastic and you're in trouble).

Date: 26 Nov 2006 13:35:12
From: Artarius
Subject: Re: What do you guys think of this?

From what I can see it has a 53 degree angle cone. (from the Tank
Drawing at the bottom)
I believe 60deg is the minimum or normal spec for cones as the yeast
will move to the bottom easily.

Tony M wrote:
> Check it out.
> http://www.ntotank.com/15gacobota.html
> I'm thinking about upgrading to a conical after my recent carboy accident.
> The price includes a stand but not shipping. (I'm not affiliated with this
> company, I just found them on the web and thought I'd share) Are there
> better/cheaper sources for these that I can't find? Thanks,
> Tony
>

--
You can grow to love a hobby TOO much.
Practice MODERATION..., it IS your friend. -my dearly departed Daddy.

Date: 26 Nov 2006 17:46:23
From: Boll Weevil Brewery
Subject: Re: What do you guys think of this?

"Artarius" <botfodder@fbi.org > wrote in message
news:45699815.6010301@fbi.org...
> From what I can see it has a 53 degree angle cone. (from the Tank Drawing
> at the bottom)
> I believe 60deg is the minimum or normal spec for cones as the yeast will
> move to the bottom easily.
>
> Tony M wrote:
>> Check it out.
>> http://www.ntotank.com/15gacobota.html
>> I'm thinking about upgrading to a conical after my recent carboy
>> accident. The price includes a stand but not shipping. (I'm not
>> affiliated with this company, I just found them on the web and thought
>> I'd share) Are there better/cheaper sources for these that I can't find?
>> Thanks,
>> Tony
>>

The 30 gallon unit has a 57.5 degree bottom, and it's only about 10 bucks
more than the 15 gallon one...I think I'd spend the extra 10 dollars and get
the big one myself. You can always do a 5 or 10 gallon batch in a 30 gallon
fermenter, but you can't ferment 20-25 gallons in a 15....

Just my .02 dollars worth.

Ricky

Date: 26 Nov 2006 21:44:41
From: Dick Adams
Subject: Re: What do you guys think of this?

Artarius <botfodder@fbi.org > wrote:
> Tony M wrote:

>> Check it out.
>> http://www.ntotank.com/15gacobota.html
>> I'm thinking about upgrading to a conical after my recent carboy
>> accident. The price includes a stand but not shipping. (I'm not
>> affiliated with this company, I just found them on the web and
>> thought I'd share). Are there better/cheaper sources for these
>> that I can't find? Thanks,

> From what I can see it has a 53 degree angle cone. (from the Tank
> Drawing at the bottom). I believe 60deg is the minimum or normal
> spec for cones as the yeast will move to the bottom easily.

I don't know if you're right or wrong about 60 degrees, but I
agree with you.

However, I have more problems than the slope with this idea.

What is the relationship between breaking a carboy and going to
a conical fermenter. My basement is cluttered with carboys.
I've never used one as a primary. I have secondaried Meads in
a carboy. Otherwise I use them for bulk aging of high gravity
Ales and Meads.

Take a good look at that conical. It has no hardware on it
which means you have a DIY project to make it functional.

I have seen similar conicals (http://tinyurl.com/954os) and
they all have the same problems:
- they are NOT homebrewing ready;
- the lids do not seal tightly; and
- the whole top does not open so you have to clean areas you
can't see and you need to use a flashlight to check for
for cleanliness because the lid opening isn't wide enough
for both you and the roomlight.

Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I do not believe
you should PBW on plastic.

I've yet to see a sink that is conducive to cleaning carboys
and a conical has always struck me as too big for a kitchen
sink, i.e., an outdoor cleaning project.

Now take another look at the tank and its stand and think
about how high you will need to raise it for bottling,
keeging, or racking (in the case of bulk aging of high-gravity
Ales.

Also, unless you're prepared for the expense of engaging in
temperature control, conicals have a limited annual time use.
Specifically they are limited to the period of Fall, Winter,
and Spring when your brewing area is within an acceptable
brewing range. (For my Ales, that is 68F (20C) and below. My
fuel oil bill dropped sharply when I stopped heating the
finished part of my basement.)

One of our colleagues pointed out that a conical will not make
a better beer.

Now I will write some kind words about conicals. Their great
advantage is that they can serve as a primary, a secondary,
and a bottling bucket which means you save on time and energy.

Dick

Date: 26 Nov 2006 08:27:30
From: Jim
Subject: Re: What do you guys think of this?

Tony M wrote on 11/26/2006 2:44 AM:
> Check it out.
> http://www.ntotank.com/15gacobota.html
> I'm thinking about upgrading to a conical after my recent carboy accident.
> The price includes a stand but not shipping. (I'm not affiliated with this
> company, I just found them on the web and thought I'd share) Are there
> better/cheaper sources for these that I can't find? Thanks,
> Tony
>

If they work, it seems like a hell of a deal. I cant really see the
bottom clearly from the picture. The cone doesnt seem to steep.

Jim

Date: 26 Nov 2006 21:12:51
From:
Subject: Re: What do you guys think of this?

I know, I have seen Sodium Hydroxide eat right through a saute pan the
kitchen told me was stainless steel. I soaked it overnight in a 5%
solution. Sizzle........
>
> You're correct -- I use PBW on plastic all the time. Works fine, as does
> Oxiclean. The parent may be thinking of aluminum, which might be
> problematic with PBW -- although I'm really not sure if that's the case.
> Sodium Hydroxide is definitely a no-no with Al.
>
> --

Date: 26 Nov 2006 15:43:31
From:
Subject: Re: What do you guys think of this?

Why couldnt you use PBW on plastic. It's delivered in plastic buckets
to my brewery. And my Caustic is delivered in plastic
barrels...undiluted. I think plastic is pretty resilient to chemical
corrosion. I would avoid bleach though.

If you really want to get fancy, and avoid chems, buy a little portable
steam cleaner.

And the DIY to start using this as a fermenter will be very minimal.
The one my friend bought required all of one trip to the hardware store
for a stainless steel ball valve and hoze barb.

But like anything, you can trick it out as much as you want, I guess.

Dick Adams wrote:
> Artarius <botfodder@fbi.org> wrote:
> > Tony M wrote:
>
> >> Check it out.
> >> http://www.ntotank.com/15gacobota.html
> >> I'm thinking about upgrading to a conical after my recent carboy
> >> accident. The price includes a stand but not shipping. (I'm not
> >> affiliated with this company, I just found them on the web and
> >> thought I'd share). Are there better/cheaper sources for these
> >> that I can't find? Thanks,
>
> > From what I can see it has a 53 degree angle cone. (from the Tank
> > Drawing at the bottom). I believe 60deg is the minimum or normal
> > spec for cones as the yeast will move to the bottom easily.
>
> I don't know if you're right or wrong about 60 degrees, but I
> agree with you.
>
> However, I have more problems than the slope with this idea.
>
> What is the relationship between breaking a carboy and going to
> a conical fermenter. My basement is cluttered with carboys.
> I've never used one as a primary. I have secondaried Meads in
> a carboy. Otherwise I use them for bulk aging of high gravity
> Ales and Meads.
>
> Take a good look at that conical. It has no hardware on it
> which means you have a DIY project to make it functional.
>
> I have seen similar conicals (http://tinyurl.com/954os) and
> they all have the same problems:
> - they are NOT homebrewing ready;
> - the lids do not seal tightly; and
> - the whole top does not open so you have to clean areas you
> can't see and you need to use a flashlight to check for
> for cleanliness because the lid opening isn't wide enough
> for both you and the roomlight.
>
> Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I do not believe
> you should PBW on plastic.
>
> I've yet to see a sink that is conducive to cleaning carboys
> and a conical has always struck me as too big for a kitchen
> sink, i.e., an outdoor cleaning project.
>
> Now take another look at the tank and its stand and think
> about how high you will need to raise it for bottling,
> keeging, or racking (in the case of bulk aging of high-gravity
> Ales.
>
> Also, unless you're prepared for the expense of engaging in
> temperature control, conicals have a limited annual time use.
> Specifically they are limited to the period of Fall, Winter,
> and Spring when your brewing area is within an acceptable
> brewing range. (For my Ales, that is 68F (20C) and below. My
> fuel oil bill dropped sharply when I stopped heating the
> finished part of my basement.)
>
> One of our colleagues pointed out that a conical will not make
> a better beer.
>
> Now I will write some kind words about conicals. Their great
> advantage is that they can serve as a primary, a secondary,
> and a bottling bucket which means you save on time and energy.
>
> Dick

Date: 26 Nov 2006 19:18:11
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: What do you guys think of this?

harvestwind_73@yahoo.com wrote:
> Why couldnt you use PBW on plastic. It's delivered in plastic buckets
> to my brewery. And my Caustic is delivered in plastic
> barrels...undiluted. I think plastic is pretty resilient to chemical
> corrosion. I would avoid bleach though.

You're correct -- I use PBW on plastic all the time. Works fine, as does
Oxiclean. The parent may be thinking of aluminum, which might be
problematic with PBW -- although I'm really not sure if that's the case.
Sodium Hydroxide is definitely a no-no with Al.

--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)

Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html

Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!

Date: 28 Nov 2006 22:29:43
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: What do you guys think of this?

On 26 Nov 2006 15:43:31 -0800, <harvestwind_73@yahoo.com > wrote:
> And the DIY to start using this as a fermenter will be very minimal.
> The one my friend bought required all of one trip to the hardware store
> for a stainless steel ball valve and hoze barb.

I suspect he was referring to the extra expense involved.

John.

Date: 26 Nov 2006 13:24:13
From:
Subject: Re: What do you guys think of this?

I have a friend with one of these...it seems to work pretty well. He
makes a good product. His lid doesnt seal so he mostly does open
fermentation. If you do this...pitch alot of good yeast and keep your
brewing envorionment pretty clean.

He has pretty good luck harvesting yeast from the cone. Its not ideal
steepness, but hey...the first brwewery I worked at had dish bottoms
and I had to crank in arseloads of CO2 pressure to harvest my yeast.

Id say buy it, use it, enjoy it. Just dont scratch the interior..

Boll Weevil Brewery wrote:
> "Artarius" <botfodder@fbi.org> wrote in message
> news:45699815.6010301@fbi.org...
> > From what I can see it has a 53 degree angle cone. (from the Tank Drawing
> > at the bottom)
> > I believe 60deg is the minimum or normal spec for cones as the yeast will
> > move to the bottom easily.
> >
> > Tony M wrote:
> >> Check it out.
> >> http://www.ntotank.com/15gacobota.html
> >> I'm thinking about upgrading to a conical after my recent carboy
> >> accident. The price includes a stand but not shipping. (I'm not
> >> affiliated with this company, I just found them on the web and thought
> >> I'd share) Are there better/cheaper sources for these that I can't find?
> >> Thanks,
> >> Tony
> >>
>
> The 30 gallon unit has a 57.5 degree bottom, and it's only about 10 bucks
> more than the 15 gallon one...I think I'd spend the extra 10 dollars and get
> the big one myself. You can always do a 5 or 10 gallon batch in a 30 gallon
> fermenter, but you can't ferment 20-25 gallons in a 15....
>
> Just my .02 dollars worth.
>
> Ricky

Date: 28 Nov 2006 15:38:31
From:
Subject: Re: What do you guys think of this?

$25.00 for a stainless ball valve and $2.00 for a hose barb? And since
when does a homebrewer blanche an a little extra expense? har har.
>
> I suspect he was referring to the extra expense involved.
>
>
> John.

Date: 29 Nov 2006 05:16:11
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: What do you guys think of this?

On 28 Nov 2006 15:38:31 -0800, <harvestwind_73@yahoo.com > wrote:
> $25.00 for a stainless ball valve and $2.00 for a hose barb?

You're talking about $25 + $2 + $100(and higher) for a conical, compared
to a $10 fermentation bucket that does the same job.

> And since
> when does a homebrewer blanche an a little extra expense? har har.

Homebrewers generally have a reputation for being a very frugal group.

John.

Date: 29 Nov 2006 16:09:30
From: Mark R
Subject: Re: What do you guys think of this?

"John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" <spam@shagg.net > wrote in message
news:slrnemq66r.i9a.spam@weizen.shagg.net...
> On 28 Nov 2006 15:38:31 -0800, <harvestwind_73@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> $25.00 for a stainless ball valve and $2.00 for a hose barb?
>
> You're talking about $25 + $2 + $100(and higher) for a conical, compared
> to a $10 fermentation bucket that does the same job.
>
>> And since
>> when does a homebrewer blanche an a little extra expense? har har.
>
> Homebrewers generally have a reputation for being a very frugal group.

I think I was a "Tight Wad" in a previous life.

Mark R

Date: 28 Nov 2006 22:24:52
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: What do you guys think of this?

On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 23:44:47 -0800, <fakeemail@null.com > wrote:
> Check it out.
> http://www.ntotank.com/15gacobota.html
> I'm thinking about upgrading to a conical after my recent carboy accident.
> The price includes a stand but not shipping. (I'm not affiliated with this
> company, I just found them on the web and thought I'd share) Are there
> better/cheaper sources for these that I can't find? Thanks,

You could buy a lot of fermentation buckets for that price, and smaller
fermenters make it a lot easier to control the fermentation temp.

However, if you've got the money and room to spare, then the conical will
probably work fine. Personally, my usual philosophy is to keep things
simple/cheap unless there's really a good reason for making something more
complex/expensive.

John.

Date: 29 Nov 2006 08:01:31
From:
Subject: Re: What do you guys think of this?

John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> On 28 Nov 2006 15:38:31 -0800, <harvestwind_73@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > $25.00 for a stainless ball valve and $2.00 for a hose barb?
>
> You're talking about $25 + $2 + $100(and higher) for a conical, compared
> to a $10 fermentation bucket that does the same job.

Well the price for the conical was already assumed. I was addressing
the Extra expense. If he's willing to pay 100+ for a big conical, would
25 extra dollars scare him away? Maybe not maybe so....but at least he
has the info that he came for.

>
> > And since
> > when does a homebrewer blanche an a little extra expense? har har.
>
> Homebrewers generally have a reputation for being a very frugal group.

I was joking...But this is only true sometimes too. I know homebrewers
who are more than happy to spend tons of money on anything beer
related.
>
>
> John.

Date: 29 Nov 2006 16:26:56
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: What do you guys think of this?

On 29 Nov 2006 08:01:31 -0800, <harvestwind_73@yahoo.com > wrote:
>> > And since
>> > when does a homebrewer blanche an a little extra expense? har har.
>>
>> Homebrewers generally have a reputation for being a very frugal group.
>
> I was joking...But this is only true sometimes too. I know homebrewers
> who are more than happy to spend tons of money on anything beer
> related.

Yeah, it still mistifies me why some homebrewers buy multi-thousand dollar
automated tiered systems. I'm sure it makes the retailers very happy though.

John.