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Main
Date: 11 Dec 2006 19:47:24
From:
Subject: Wacky water filtration slowing yeasties?
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Hey folks... awhile back I posted about my brother's water in Wisconsin
causing troubles with his brew. He's on a well that has fairly hard water, including
a lot of iron. Because of this, he'd brewed with water run through the water
softener, and I always thought it had a "funk," and beers made with it would never
ferment very low.
He's bought water in the past and has had good luck with it, but the
aggravation of having to go and buy water for each and every batch is too annoying
(which I understand completely). Of course the cost is not much, but still 25-50% of
an all-grain, yeast-recycled batch.
SO, I came up with what I thought was a clever solution, which I helped him
build over Thanksgiving. Basically:
- Run 10 gallons of (unsoftened) well water into a large plastic container.
- Put in a drop or two of laundry bleach
- Very low level of chlorine immediately oxidizes the soluble iron (i.e. water turns
brown as the iron precipitates).
- Put in 1/2-1 Campden tablet to neutralize the chlorine.
- Drain out of container through a $15 "whole-house" particulate/activated carbon
filter.
- Enjoy clear, non-iron-smelly, non-chlorinated, iron-free water for drinking/brewing.
Though I was so S..M.R.T... now it seems that the beers he's doing with these
are doing OK, but just fermenting V E R Y S L O W L Y... Rather than the 5-7 day
primaries, some are going as long as 2 weeks before finishing. Taste is good, and
they (eventually) ferment down as they should.
Is there something you guys can think of that would cause this doing my
convoluted filtering plan? Does Campden take time to "deactivate" so it's causing
slow yeasties?
Thanks for ideas...
-Cory
--
*************************************************************************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
*************************************************************************
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 21:18:22
From: Tony Verhulst
Subject: Re: Wacky water filtration slowing yeasties?
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> SO, I came up with what I thought was a clever solution, which I helped him
> build over Thanksgiving. Basically:
>
> - Run 10 gallons of (unsoftened) well water into a large plastic container.
> - Put in a drop or two of laundry bleach
> - Very low level of chlorine immediately oxidizes the soluble iron (i.e. water turns
> brown as the iron precipitates).
> - Put in 1/2-1 Campden tablet to neutralize the chlorine.
> - Drain out of container through a $15 "whole-house" particulate/activated carbon
> filter.
> - Enjoy clear, non-iron-smelly, non-chlorinated, iron-free water for drinking/brewing.
Basically, an excellent procedure. I would "lose" the Campden tablets
and opt for simply letting the water stand for a few days - letting the
chlorine dissipate naturally. Campden tablets (sodium metabisulphite)
reacts with chlorine to generate sodium sulphate - among other things.
Probably OK for most ales but if you were emulating a Czech pilsner, I
suspect that you might be less pleased. See
http://www.kkwater.com/photos/Destruction%20of%20Residual%20Chlorine%20Using%20UV.pdf
If you want to go high tech, go with reverse osmosis.
Tony V.
http://home.comcast.net/~verhulst/RIMS
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 15:23:03
From: Mark R
Subject: Re: Wacky water filtration slowing yeasties?
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"Tony Verhulst" <no@thankyou.com > wrote in message
>
> Basically, an excellent procedure. I would "lose" the Campden tablets and
> opt for simply letting the water stand for a few days - letting the
> chlorine dissipate naturally.
I was thinking the same thing about the Campden tablets, but if he's running
it through an activated carbon filter that should take care of the chlorine.
Mark R
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 15:29:26
From:
Subject: Re: Wacky water filtration slowing yeasties?
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: > Basically, an excellent procedure. I would "lose" the Campden tablets and
: > opt for simply letting the water stand for a few days - letting the
: > chlorine dissipate naturally.
: I was thinking the same thing about the Campden tablets, but if he's running
: it through an activated carbon filter that should take care of the chlorine.
Does the activated carbon filter need rejuvination/replacement after passing
some chlorine through it, or is it just a catalyst?
-Cory
--
*************************************************************************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
*************************************************************************
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 15:12:07
From:
Subject: Re: Wacky water filtration slowing yeasties?
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: Basically, an excellent procedure. I would "lose" the Campden tablets
: and opt for simply letting the water stand for a few days - letting the
: chlorine dissipate naturally. Campden tablets (sodium metabisulphite)
: reacts with chlorine to generate sodium sulphate - among other things.
: Probably OK for most ales but if you were emulating a Czech pilsner, I
: suspect that you might be less pleased. See
: http://www.kkwater.com/photos/Destruction%20of%20Residual%20Chlorine%20Using%20UV.pdf
: If you want to go high tech, go with reverse osmosis.
Unfortunately, the few days part is not particularly desireable either, as it
requires thinking ahead (like buying water). Besides, if it were left for a few days,
the chlorine probably wouldn't even be necessary as the iron oxidizes out by itself
after awhile.
Just for the record, my brother tried bubbling air up through the
manifold in his mash tun last night. After 10 minutes, it decreased the iron somewhat
after being sent through the particulate filter.
Another possibility we thought of is some ascorbic acid (vitamin c) to
neutralize the chlorine, or possibly hydrogen peroxide (without chlorine) to cause the
iron to oxidize.
-Cory
--
*************************************************************************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
*************************************************************************
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 13:08:36
From: Mike
Subject: Re: Wacky water filtration slowing yeasties?
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papenfussDIESPAM@juneauDOTmeDOTvt.edu wrote:
> Hey folks... awhile back I posted about my brother's water in Wisconsin
> causing troubles with his brew. He's on a well that has fairly hard water, including
> a lot of iron. Because of this, he'd brewed with water run through the water
> softener, and I always thought it had a "funk," and beers made with it would never
> ferment very low.
>
> He's bought water in the past and has had good luck with it, but the
> aggravation of having to go and buy water for each and every batch is too annoying
> (which I understand completely). Of course the cost is not much, but still 25-50% of
> an all-grain, yeast-recycled batch.
>
> SO, I came up with what I thought was a clever solution, which I helped him
> build over Thanksgiving. Basically:
>
> - Run 10 gallons of (unsoftened) well water into a large plastic container.
> - Put in a drop or two of laundry bleach
> - Very low level of chlorine immediately oxidizes the soluble iron (i.e. water turns
> brown as the iron precipitates).
> - Put in 1/2-1 Campden tablet to neutralize the chlorine.
> - Drain out of container through a $15 "whole-house" particulate/activated carbon
> filter.
> - Enjoy clear, non-iron-smelly, non-chlorinated, iron-free water for drinking/brewing.
>
> Though I was so S..M.R.T... now it seems that the beers he's doing with these
> are doing OK, but just fermenting V E R Y S L O W L Y... Rather than the 5-7 day
> primaries, some are going as long as 2 weeks before finishing. Taste is good, and
> they (eventually) ferment down as they should.
>
> Is there something you guys can think of that would cause this doing my
> convoluted filtering plan? Does Campden take time to "deactivate" so it's causing
> slow yeasties?
>
> Thanks for ideas...
>
> -Cory
>
>
> --
>
> *************************************************************************
> * Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
> * Electrical Engineering *
> * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
> *************************************************************************
I find it hard to believe that the whole process you went through is
actually easier than going to the store to buy spring water.
Also, does well water have chlorine in it? I would assume that coming
from a well, it wouldn't be treated. I've never worked with campden,
but I have read that it the tablets can be used to halt the
fermentation process near the end of brewing. But again, I've never
used campden tablets before.
Mike
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 21:42:00
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Wacky water filtration slowing yeasties?
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On 11 Dec 2006 13:08:36 -0800, <mikedawg@gmail.com > wrote:
> Also, does well water have chlorine in it? I would assume that coming
> from a well, it wouldn't be treated. I've never worked with campden,
> but I have read that it the tablets can be used to halt the
> fermentation process near the end of brewing. But again, I've never
> used campden tablets before.
Campden tablets are generally used in wine making to halt the fermentation.
I don't think they are nearly as effective in beer brewing to inhibit
yeast activity. Something about the pH difference between wine and beer
makes it perform differently.
John.
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 22:30:26
From:
Subject: Re: Wacky water filtration slowing yeasties?
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <spam@shagg.net > wrote:
: On 11 Dec 2006 13:08:36 -0800, <mikedawg@gmail.com > wrote:
: > Also, does well water have chlorine in it? I would assume that coming
: > from a well, it wouldn't be treated. I've never worked with campden,
: > but I have read that it the tablets can be used to halt the
: > fermentation process near the end of brewing. But again, I've never
: > used campden tablets before.
: Campden tablets are generally used in wine making to halt the fermentation.
: I don't think they are nearly as effective in beer brewing to inhibit
: yeast activity. Something about the pH difference between wine and beer
: makes it perform differently.
So it shouldn't affect the beer then... that's what I was thinking.
Especially since Campden tablets are recommended (by various googlings) to remove
chlorine/chloramine from city water.
Also remember that this is done to the water prior to mashing, sparging, or
boiling. Seems like if a reaction was supposed to occur to neutralize it, all that
roughousing would have done it. :)
-Cory
--
*************************************************************************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
*************************************************************************
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Date: 11 Dec 2006 21:34:06
From:
Subject: Re: Wacky water filtration slowing yeasties?
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: I find it hard to believe that the whole process you went through is
: actually easier than going to the store to buy spring water.
Actually, it's not as complicated as it sounds, and it only takes a few
minutes. It's one of those things where the initial effort of getting the setup takes
a bit, but the actual process of using it doesn't.
: Also, does well water have chlorine in it? I would assume that coming
: from a well, it wouldn't be treated. I've never worked with campden,
: but I have read that it the tablets can be used to halt the
: fermentation process near the end of brewing. But again, I've never
: used campden tablets before.
It doesn't have chlorine in it until I add it to oxidize the iron.... :)
-Cory
--
*************************************************************************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
*************************************************************************
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Date: 12 Dec 2006 08:00:10
From: Mike
Subject: Re: Wacky water filtration slowing yeasties?
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papenfussDIESPAM@juneauDOTmeDOTvt.edu wrote:
> : > Basically, an excellent procedure. I would "lose" the Campden tablets and
> : > opt for simply letting the water stand for a few days - letting the
> : > chlorine dissipate naturally.
>
> : I was thinking the same thing about the Campden tablets, but if he's running
> : it through an activated carbon filter that should take care of the chlorine.
>
> Does the activated carbon filter need rejuvination/replacement after passing
> some chlorine through it, or is it just a catalyst?
>
> -Cory
>
> --
>
> *************************************************************************
> * Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
> * Electrical Engineering *
> * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
> *************************************************************************
Carbon filters need replacement, after use. Carbon filters to go bad,
over time/use. Essentially it works using absorbtion, and once the
activated carbon is "full" it can no longer absorb any more impurities,
or anything.
Depending on how much activated carbon, and how much water you passed
through it, it could still be good for more uses.
Mike
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Date: 13 Dec 2006 15:35:35
From: Mark R
Subject: Re: Wacky water filtration slowing yeasties?
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"Mike" <mikedawg@gmail.com > wrote in message
>>
>> Does the activated carbon filter need rejuvination/replacement after
>> passing
>> some chlorine through it, or is it just a catalyst?
>
> Carbon filters need replacement, after use. Carbon filters to go bad,
> over time/use. Essentially it works using absorbtion, and once the
> activated carbon is "full" it can no longer absorb any more impurities,
> or anything.
>
> Depending on how much activated carbon, and how much water you passed
> through it, it could still be good for more uses.
The filter should state some kind of expected life span either on the filter
or the packaging it came in. The filter I use for all cooking and drinking,
including home brew, is rated for 5000 gallons. Of course that's from the
city tap. The actual life would depend on the PPM of chlorine and other
chemicals in your water. You can taste it when they go bad.
Mark R
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