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Main
Date: 14 Dec 2006 03:21:00
From: Joe Sallustio
Subject: Venting fermenters
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This might not be as interesting as that post on the evils of homebrew
shops but I repeated one of the stupidest things I ever did in
winemaking with my last batch of stout.
I made a little less than 6 gallons and used a 7 gallon carboy with an
airlock. I usually strain out my hops with a screened funnel, I need
the funnel anyway and figured sanitizing the screen was not that much
more work. This time I didn't screen that out.
I use Munton's standard dry yeast and it's a pretty vigorous
fermentation, it's usually getting bottled in a week or so. These are
partial mash brews of ~7 pounds of DME and about 1.5 pounds of grain in
2 gallons of water for the most part;, that works out to about 6
gallons at an OG of 1.050.
Anyway you obviously know the error of my ways by now, too little
headspace, partially plugged airlock because the opening seized up with
hop debris; volcanic eruption, Very, very bad day and about 1 gallon of
good stout is now compost. The 3 Stooges have nothing on me. I'm sure
a video of this would have been priceless, at least to me as a reminder
of what not to do.
Anyway, my question concerns resolving this:
Should I:
* Never do more than 5 gallons in a 7 gallon carboy.
or if still doing 6 gallon batches:
* Use a blow off tube or something like that.
* Trim off the base of the airlock making the opening larger and less
likely to plug.
.
* Resume rinsing out the hop pellets. I just cool the wort and keep
back the bulk of the solids with the screen. I am adding water anyway
so would just rinse that through the screen to get more of the
fermentables into the carboy.
Suggestions (other than repeating the 'experiment') would be
appreciated.
Thanks,
Joe
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Date: 14 Dec 2006 18:16:23
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Venting fermenters
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On 14 Dec 2006 03:21:00 -0800, <joe_sallo@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Should I:
>
> * Use a blow off tube or something like that.
>
> * Resume rinsing out the hop pellets.
I'd try to strain out the hop/break material if you can. Otherwise,
use a blowoff tube on batches that you think might need it.
I usually primary 5 gallon batches in a 6.5 gallon carboy. The only
time I really have a blowoff is when I make wheat beers. Other than
that, it usually all stays in the carboy. However, warmer ferments
will make a difference. The warmer the temp, the more vigorous (and
more likely to blowoff) it will get.
John.
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Date: 14 Dec 2006 16:58:52
From: Scott Sellers
Subject: Re: Venting fermenters
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Joe Sallustio <joe_sallo@hotmail.com >:
>This might not be as interesting as that post on the evils of
>homebrew shops but I repeated one of the stupidest things I ever
>did in winemaking with my last batch of stout.
>I made a little less than 6 gallons and used a 7 gallon carboy
>with an airlock. I usually strain out my hops with a screened
>funnel, I need the funnel anyway and figured sanitizing the
>screen was not that much more work. This time I didn't screen
>that out.
>I use Munton's standard dry yeast and it's a pretty vigorous
>fermentation, it's usually getting bottled in a week or so.
>These are partial mash brews of ~7 pounds of DME and about 1.5
>pounds of grain in 2 gallons of water for the most part;, that
>works out to about 6 gallons at an OG of 1.050.
>Anyway you obviously know the error of my ways by now, too
>little headspace, partially plugged airlock because the opening
>seized up with hop debris; volcanic eruption, Very, very bad day
>and about 1 gallon of good stout is now compost. The 3 Stooges
>have nothing on me. I'm sure a video of this would have been
>priceless, at least to me as a reminder of what not to do.
>Anyway, my question concerns resolving this:
>Should I:
>* Never do more than 5 gallons in a 7 gallon carboy.
It depends on how vigorous the ferment is going to be, and/or how
much beer you are willing to lose in blowoff. You might consider
using a (big) bucket for vigorous primary. (The advantage to the
bucket being that there is not an inverted, volcano-like funnel
permanently attached on the top, waiting to blow.) Instead of
using an airlock or blowoff tube, just don't seal the lid
tightly.
>or if still doing 6 gallon batches:
>* Use a blow off tube or something like that.
A must for vigorous ferments in a carboy.
>* Trim off the base of the airlock making the opening larger and
>less likely to plug.
>* Resume rinsing out the hop pellets. I just cool the wort and
>keep back the bulk of the solids with the screen. I am adding
>water anyway so would just rinse that through the screen to get
>more of the fermentables into the carboy.
Use whole hops. They're cooler and more fun.
>Suggestions (other than repeating the 'experiment') would be
>appreciated.
cheers,
Scott S
--
Scott Sellers
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Date: 14 Dec 2006 11:04:13
From: Gerard Eberlein
Subject: Re: Venting fermenters
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"Joe Sallustio" <joe_sallo@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1166095260.169588.135720@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
> This might not be as interesting as that post on the evils of homebrew
> shops but I repeated one of the stupidest things I ever did in
> winemaking with my last batch of stout.
>
> I made a little less than 6 gallons and used a 7 gallon carboy with an
> airlock. I usually strain out my hops with a screened funnel, I need
> the funnel anyway and figured sanitizing the screen was not that much
> more work. This time I didn't screen that out.
>
> I use Munton's standard dry yeast and it's a pretty vigorous
> fermentation, it's usually getting bottled in a week or so. These are
> partial mash brews of ~7 pounds of DME and about 1.5 pounds of grain in
> 2 gallons of water for the most part;, that works out to about 6
> gallons at an OG of 1.050.
>
> Anyway you obviously know the error of my ways by now, too little
> headspace, partially plugged airlock because the opening seized up with
> hop debris; volcanic eruption, Very, very bad day and about 1 gallon of
> good stout is now compost. The 3 Stooges have nothing on me. I'm sure
> a video of this would have been priceless, at least to me as a reminder
> of what not to do.
>
> Anyway, my question concerns resolving this:
>
> Should I:
>
> * Never do more than 5 gallons in a 7 gallon carboy.
>
> or if still doing 6 gallon batches:
>
> * Use a blow off tube or something like that.
>
> * Trim off the base of the airlock making the opening larger and less
> likely to plug.
> .
> * Resume rinsing out the hop pellets. I just cool the wort and keep
> back the bulk of the solids with the screen. I am adding water anyway
> so would just rinse that through the screen to get more of the
> fermentables into the carboy.
>
> Suggestions (other than repeating the 'experiment') would be
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Joe
>
Instead of using a screened funnel I first siphon off my wort to a 6.5
gallon bucket I used to use before I made wheats and bought a carboy. I use
what some call a paint strainer, basically a fine mesh bag that has a rubber
band thingy around the opening thus it stays secure on the bucket. When done
siphoning you just grab up the rubber band and turn the bag sise to side to
get the last of the wort out. I have reused these bags for several batches
before rips at the seams. I just turn it inside out and run the shower over
it. I also still use a blowoff tube though as I make high gravity and wheat
beers alot.
Gerard
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Date: 14 Dec 2006 07:25:48
From: hankus
Subject: Re: Venting fermenters
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Joe
By keeping the hops there, U are dry hopping which will change the flavor
of the beer and since they are bittering hops,not for the good.After a while
U may develop enough familiarity with your setup to tell when most action
has ceased.When the krausen drops you are about 80% done. Instead of an
airlock to monitor activity (I only use them for lagers or starters) invert
a plastic cup/loose plastic bag over the mouth and just watch through the
sides.
A lot of old time British breweries use open fermenters-the krausen is a
protective cloud
--
Thanks
Hank
"Joe Sallustio" <joe_sallo@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1166095260.169588.135720@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
> This might not be as interesting as that post on the evils of homebrew
> shops but I repeated one of the stupidest things I ever did in
> winemaking with my last batch of stout.
>
> I made a little less than 6 gallons and used a 7 gallon carboy with an
> airlock. I usually strain out my hops with a screened funnel, I need
> the funnel anyway and figured sanitizing the screen was not that much
> more work. This time I didn't screen that out.
>
> I use Munton's standard dry yeast and it's a pretty vigorous
> fermentation, it's usually getting bottled in a week or so. These are
> partial mash brews of ~7 pounds of DME and about 1.5 pounds of grain in
> 2 gallons of water for the most part;, that works out to about 6
> gallons at an OG of 1.050.
>
> Anyway you obviously know the error of my ways by now, too little
> headspace, partially plugged airlock because the opening seized up with
> hop debris; volcanic eruption, Very, very bad day and about 1 gallon of
> good stout is now compost. The 3 Stooges have nothing on me. I'm sure
> a video of this would have been priceless, at least to me as a reminder
> of what not to do.
>
> Anyway, my question concerns resolving this:
>
> Should I:
>
> * Never do more than 5 gallons in a 7 gallon carboy.
>
> or if still doing 6 gallon batches:
>
> * Use a blow off tube or something like that.
>
> * Trim off the base of the airlock making the opening larger and less
> likely to plug.
> .
> * Resume rinsing out the hop pellets. I just cool the wort and keep
> back the bulk of the solids with the screen. I am adding water anyway
> so would just rinse that through the screen to get more of the
> fermentables into the carboy.
>
> Suggestions (other than repeating the 'experiment') would be
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Joe
>
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Date: 14 Dec 2006 18:20:47
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Venting fermenters
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On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 07:25:48 -0600, <hbienert@cox.net > wrote:
> Joe
> By keeping the hops there, U are dry hopping which will change the flavor
> of the beer and since they are bittering hops
Any potential aroma contribution from bittering hops is long gone by the
time you are ready to transfer to the fermenter. It's lost during the boil.
John.
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Date: 14 Dec 2006 09:57:56
From: hankus
Subject: Re: Venting fermenters
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Concentrated boils do not produce as much hop extraction
--
Thanks
Hank
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Date: 14 Dec 2006 18:43:22
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Venting fermenters
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On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 09:57:56 -0600, <hbienert@cox.net > wrote:
> Concentrated boils do not produce as much hop extraction
Was this in reply to me (can't tell without quoted material)?
Assuming it was... true, concentrated boils have lower utilization which
means that there may be some AAs in the hops that were not isomerized.
They're not going to isomerize in the fermenter though, and that has
nothing to do with aroma. IMO, even with a concentrated boil, the volatile
aroma will be long gone by the time the boil is over.
John.
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Date: 14 Dec 2006 05:19:20
From: Jeff
Subject: Re: Venting fermenters
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Joe Sallustio wrote:
> Should I:
I'll put in a vote for the blow-off tube. I completely quit using
airlocks for the primary and just stick a 1" tube in the top and the
other end under water (which is actually my left-over sanitizer).
Tubing that size is very easy to clean too (just put a soapy plug of
paper toweling in it and force water through to push it to the other
end). It'll work fine whether you decide to strain, go to a full 7
gallons, or whatever.
On the other end of the blow off tube, I like to use a 1gallon plastic
milk jug. The tube fits tightly in the jug and I melt a small hole near
the top of the jug for the air to exit (or the liquid if the
fermentation is massive). Fill it about half full of your old sanitize
solution and your done until secondary.
--Jeff
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Date: 14 Dec 2006 05:13:58
From: John Krehbiel
Subject: Re: Venting fermenters
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Joe Sallustio wrote:
> > Should I:
>
> * Never do more than 5 gallons in a 7 gallon carboy.
>
> or if still doing 6 gallon batches:
>
> * Use a blow off tube or something like that.
>
> * Trim off the base of the airlock making the opening larger and less
> likely to plug.
> .
> * Resume rinsing out the hop pellets. I just cool the wort and keep
> back the bulk of the solids with the screen. I am adding water anyway
> so would just rinse that through the screen to get more of the
> fermentables into the carboy.
>
>
When I did extract brews, I always strained the hops. That was a PITA,
because the strainer quickly got clogged and I felt like I was messing
around with it forever.
One thing I used to do might help. Try putting a large amount of boiled
water in the freezer when you start. (a gallon or so, I used to use the
2 1/2 gallons containers of spring water) By the time you are ready to
chill the wort, it will be near freezing.
Dilute the concentrated wort in the boil pot with the cold water, then
swirl, let it sit 5 minutes or so, and siphon from the edge of the pot.
Most of the hops and break material will be piled up in the middle, and
will stay behind.
If you feel you are leaving too much good stuff behind this way, just
give it another rinse.
John
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Date: 14 Dec 2006 09:11:15
From: Dan Logcher
Subject: Re: Venting fermenters
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John Krehbiel wrote:
> Joe Sallustio wrote:
>
>>>Should I:
>>
>>* Never do more than 5 gallons in a 7 gallon carboy.
>>
>>or if still doing 6 gallon batches:
>>
>>* Use a blow off tube or something like that.
>>
>>* Trim off the base of the airlock making the opening larger and less
>>likely to plug.
>>.
>>* Resume rinsing out the hop pellets. I just cool the wort and keep
>>back the bulk of the solids with the screen. I am adding water anyway
>>so would just rinse that through the screen to get more of the
>>fermentables into the carboy.
>>
>>
>
>
> When I did extract brews, I always strained the hops. That was a PITA,
> because the strainer quickly got clogged and I felt like I was messing
> around with it forever.
>
> One thing I used to do might help. Try putting a large amount of boiled
> water in the freezer when you start. (a gallon or so, I used to use the
> 2 1/2 gallons containers of spring water) By the time you are ready to
> chill the wort, it will be near freezing.
>
> Dilute the concentrated wort in the boil pot with the cold water, then
> swirl, let it sit 5 minutes or so, and siphon from the edge of the pot.
> Most of the hops and break material will be piled up in the middle, and
> will stay behind.
>
> If you feel you are leaving too much good stuff behind this way, just
> give it another rinse.
So if I'm doing a partial boil of 3 gallons, take 1-2 gallons of cold
water and add to the boil pot as I siphon off to the fermentor? Seems like
it would help dilute the wort I leave behind in the kettle. Any reason this
would be bad?
--
Dan
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Date: 16 Dec 2006 08:42:26
From: Andy Davison
Subject: Re: Venting fermenters
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On Thursday 14 December 2006 14:11, Dan Logcher wrote:
> So if I'm doing a partial boil of 3 gallons, take 1-2 gallons of cold
> water and add to the boil pot as I siphon off to the fermentor? Seems
> like it would help dilute the wort I leave behind in the kettle. Any
> reason this would be bad?
If you add the cold water to the brew kettle you can cause some of the hot
break to dissolve back into the wort. It's no great deal but keep it in
mind.
--
Andy Davison
andy [at] oiyou [dot] ukfsn [dot] org
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Date: 14 Dec 2006 15:57:36
From: John Krehbiel
Subject: Re: Venting fermenters
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Dan Logcher wrote:
> John Krehbiel wrote:
>
>
> So if I'm doing a partial boil of 3 gallons, take 1-2 gallons of cold
> water and add to the boil pot as I siphon off to the fermentor? Seems like
> it would help dilute the wort I leave behind in the kettle. Any reason this
> would be bad?
>
> --
> Dan
Sounds like the right idea to me.
John
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Date: 14 Dec 2006 13:44:17
From: alebrewer
Subject: Re: Venting fermenters
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Joe Sallustio wrote:
<snip >
> Should I:
>
> * Never do more than 5 gallons in a 7 gallon carboy.
I usually aim for between 5.5 and 6 gallons going into the 7 gallon
carboy
> or if still doing 6 gallon batches:
>
> * Use a blow off tube or something like that.
This is a fine solution. I don't do it because I look at it as messy
and unnecessary.
> * Trim off the base of the airlock making the opening larger and less
> likely to plug.
Absolutely. The newest airlocks I have bought have a nearly closed end
composed of a narrowed end and cross shape over the smaller end. I cut
it off to the larger diameter (I see no point in having that cross
thing on the end, other that it is (unintentional pun) a point in
itself.
> * Resume rinsing out the hop pellets. I just cool the wort and keep
> back the bulk of the solids with the screen. I am adding water anyway
> so would just rinse that through the screen to get more of the
> fermentables into the carboy.
I used to rinse the hop pellet gunk. In talking with other brewers, I
decided that it was a bad practice and stopped doing it. Just siphon
the wort off the solids and stop when all there left is gunk. A little
carryover in your fermenter isn't going to hurt.
> Suggestions (other than repeating the 'experiment') would be
> appreciated.
Keep your fermentation temperature down. If the fermentation gets too
active, it will foam through the airlock of nearly any fermenter. If
you can cool the fermenter, the activity will slow and the foam "head"
will be reduced. You don't want to get too cold (you can essentially
stop the fermentation if you go too low), but you do want to be able to
cool it to the mid to low 60's if necessary. Not only will this help
keep the foaming down, but the beer will taste better, too.
ab
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Date: 15 Dec 2006 02:40:45
From: Joe Sallustio
Subject: Re: Venting fermenters
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> Keep your fermentation temperature down. If the fermentation gets too
> active, it will foam through the airlock of nearly any fermenter. If
> you can cool the fermenter, the activity will slow and the foam "head"
> will be reduced. You don't want to get too cold (you can essentially
> stop the fermentation if you go too low), but you do want to be able to
> cool it to the mid to low 60's if necessary. Not only will this help
> keep the foaming down, but the beer will taste better, too.
Thanks to all for the helpful suggestions and insight. This batch was
fermented at 60F which seemed to be a little low for Muntons standard
dry yeast I used but obviously isn't. I had it too full and should
have used the airlock i cut the bottom off of. (I couldn't remember
why I did that, it's obvious now.) I'll make some changes to my
process as suggested.
I went to the local homebrew supply and picked up "How to Brew", 3rd
edition. It is fantastic. I have a technical background; as soon as I
saw nomographs I knew I had the right book for me. Thanks to those who
suggested it in another thread.
Joe.
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Date: 16 Dec 2006 08:33:12
From: Andy Davison
Subject: Re: Venting fermenters
|
On Thursday 14 December 2006 11:21, Joe Sallustio wrote:
> The 3 Stooges have nothing on me. I'm sure
> a video of this would have been priceless, at least to me as a reminder
> of what not to do.
Don't forget the amount of yeast a fermenting beer can generate as well as
the chance of hops blocking the airlock if you use one. For people who
haven't seen this yet it is worth looking at just to realise what can
happen.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/oiyou/188373583/
--
Andy Davison
andy [at] oiyou [dot] ukfsn [dot] org
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Date: 16 Dec 2006 23:55:46
From: Dick Adams
Subject: Re: Venting fermenters
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Andy Davison <andydvsn@yahoo.co.uk > wrote:
> Joe Sallustio wrote:
>> The 3 Stooges have nothing on me. I'm sure a video of this
>> would have been priceless, at least to me as a reminder
>> of what not to do.
> Don't forget the amount of yeast a fermenting beer can generate
> as well as the chance of hops blocking the airlock if you use
> one. For people who haven't seen this yet it is worth looking
> at just to realise what can happen.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/oiyou/188373583/
I treasure photos like that one and show them to the senuous
young girl I conned into marrying me. It keeps her aware of
how meticulous I am. Of course, one of my specialities is
cleaning up before she has a chance to view the damage. :)
I once had a Mead (which means no hops) take off when I
added the second dose of nutrient. The lid got snapped down
in record time. Fortunately there was a blowoff tube on it,
but it came close to filling the one gallon blowoff bottle
before another blowoff bottle was put in place! If the
blowoff line gets clogged, you are dead meat.
Dick
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Date: 17 Dec 2006 01:28:34
From: Andy Davison
Subject: Re: Venting fermenters
|
On Saturday 16 December 2006 23:55, Dick Adams wrote:
> I once had a Mead (which means no hops) take off when I
> added the second dose of nutrient. The lid got snapped down
> in record time. Fortunately there was a blowoff tube on it,
> but it came close to filling the one gallon blowoff bottle
> before another blowoff bottle was put in place! If the
> blowoff line gets clogged, you are dead meat.
The bucket in my photo never had a lid on it to start with. I didn't put a
lid on till I racked it into a secondary bucket, then the lid went on tight
and I left it for a couple of months before bottling.
--
Andy Davison
andy [at] oiyou [dot] ukfsn [dot] org
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Date: 17 Dec 2006 14:13:46
From:
Subject: Re: Venting fermenters
|
Answers to your questions:
1. When I was actively brewing ales, 6 gals primary fermenter after
blowoff gave me 5 gals in the secondary.
2. Regarding blow off, I've bought blow off tubes and just this last
batch left it open after 24 hrs while the krausen built up and let it
blow out of the fermenter then put a regular airlock on. Either way, i
would never airlock a primary while its in its blow out phase.
3. Finally regarding the hops, use a hop bag which will strain out
75%+ of the hops from the boil to the fermentor. I would also use a
striner if I used pellets. The hop bag can either be one of the sock
type disposable bags or a better nylon reusable one.
Enjoy, and even though this beer making experience sounded messy, I'm
sure its not as bad as when I droppped a 5 gal carboy full of
water....yikes!
T
Joe Sallustio wrote:
> This might not be as interesting as that post on the evils of homebrew
> shops but I repeated one of the stupidest things I ever did in
> winemaking with my last batch of stout.
>
> I made a little less than 6 gallons and used a 7 gallon carboy with an
> airlock. I usually strain out my hops with a screened funnel, I need
> the funnel anyway and figured sanitizing the screen was not that much
> more work. This time I didn't screen that out.
>
> I use Munton's standard dry yeast and it's a pretty vigorous
> fermentation, it's usually getting bottled in a week or so. These are
> partial mash brews of ~7 pounds of DME and about 1.5 pounds of grain in
> 2 gallons of water for the most part;, that works out to about 6
> gallons at an OG of 1.050.
>
> Anyway you obviously know the error of my ways by now, too little
> headspace, partially plugged airlock because the opening seized up with
> hop debris; volcanic eruption, Very, very bad day and about 1 gallon of
> good stout is now compost. The 3 Stooges have nothing on me. I'm sure
> a video of this would have been priceless, at least to me as a reminder
> of what not to do.
>
> Anyway, my question concerns resolving this:
>
> Should I:
>
> * Never do more than 5 gallons in a 7 gallon carboy.
>
> or if still doing 6 gallon batches:
>
> * Use a blow off tube or something like that.
>
> * Trim off the base of the airlock making the opening larger and less
> likely to plug.
> .
> * Resume rinsing out the hop pellets. I just cool the wort and keep
> back the bulk of the solids with the screen. I am adding water anyway
> so would just rinse that through the screen to get more of the
> fermentables into the carboy.
>
> Suggestions (other than repeating the 'experiment') would be
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Joe
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