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Main
Date: 07 Nov 2006 20:02:26
From: Michael Pappas
Subject: Ultra-fast fermentation??
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On Saturday i brewed my first beer. Today, Tuesday, the fermentation has
stopped, and i dont know whether this is normal or not.
Boiled
Munton's nut brow ale malt extract kit (1.8kg).
Munton's kit enhancer malt extract (1.3 kg).
Added some Fuggle hops at the last 10 minutes of boiling.
Boiled for 35 minutes with 5.7lt of water in a 19lt pot. At first the
wort was producing loads of foam so i had to turn the heat lower by 1/3.
The foam went off but the wort continued boiling on a lower degree.
Added water+wort (total 19lt) on a 25lt glass carboy.
Measured OG of 1.035.
Added yeast (from the kit) at 24 C wort temperature.
Rechecked after about 6 hrs and the beer had a rich foam, while the
fermentation lock was bubbling every few seconds. Room temperature was
around 19C.
On Sunday there was more kraeusen, and some dark brown scum on the
opposite sides of the foam. Lock was bubbling more ofter, about once
every 3-4 seconds. Sunday night room temperature dropped to about 17C.
Monday kraeusen had significantly decreased to very little, plus some
big buggles. Bubbling was much slower.Scum had disappeared. On Monday
temperature increased back to 19-20C.
Today, fermentation seems to have stopped completely. Foam stays at the
same levels (ie very litttle). Room temperature remains the same.
So is this normal?
Am i having an ultra-fast fermentation, or something else could have
happened?
Am i supposed to measure the gravity again to see what's going on? And
if yes shall i open the fermenter and get a sample with a plastic hose
as i did for the OG or will this expose it to contamination? (i dont see
any other way of doing it)
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Date: 07 Nov 2006 18:15:26
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Ultra-fast fermentation??
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On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 20:02:26 +0200, <michael@md.gr > wrote:
>
> On Saturday i brewed my first beer. Today, Tuesday, the fermentation has
> stopped, and i dont know whether this is normal or not.
Could be normal, or it could be a problem. Visual signs (krausen, bubbles
in the airlock, etc) don't really tell you much. If the OG was relatively
low, or the fermentation temp was relatively high, you could have a
quicker than normal fermentation.
> Measured OG of 1.035.
If accurate, this is a relatively low OG. That could be why it
finished quickly, if it is really finished.
> Today, fermentation seems to have stopped completely. Foam stays at the
> same levels (ie very litttle). Room temperature remains the same.
Krausen/bubbles don't tell you much. At this point it could be done,
or it could be "stuck". Both will give identical visual signs.
> Am i supposed to measure the gravity again to see what's going on?
Definitely. That's the only way to accurately tell what is happening.
If you're worried about it, take a gravity reading and see where the
beer is. However, waiting won't hurt anything. You can just give it
until this weekend and take a gravity reading then. If you get the same
gravity reading spread out over a few days (IE, it's no longer changing)
and the reading is reasonable for a FG, then you're done.
> And
> if yes shall i open the fermenter and get a sample with a plastic hose
> as i did for the OG or will this expose it to contamination? (i dont see
> any other way of doing it)
Just do it the same way as when you took the OG. It won't hurt anything.
Many beginners are afraid of opening their fermenter, but it's really
nothing to worry about. As long as you're careful, you're not going to
create any significant risk.
John.
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Date: 07 Nov 2006 20:27:40
From: Michael Pappas
Subject: Re: Ultra-fast fermentation??
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>> Measured OG of 1.035.
>
> If accurate, this is a relatively low OG. That could be why it
> finished quickly, if it is really finished.
>
Indeed, i can't tell with certainty about the accurate of my
measurement, since it was my first time.. I'll probably measure again
today, and back again on a couple of days to see what's happening.
Hopefully i'll get some reasonable results...
BTW where does a high gravity result from, in general? Does it mean that
i added too much water or could be a result of other factors as well?
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Date: 07 Nov 2006 18:55:55
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Ultra-fast fermentation??
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On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 20:27:40 +0200, <michael@md.gr > wrote:
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>>> Measured OG of 1.035.
>>
>> If accurate, this is a relatively low OG. That could be why it
>> finished quickly, if it is really finished.
>>
>
> Indeed, i can't tell with certainty about the accurate of my
> measurement, since it was my first time.. I'll probably measure again
> today, and back again on a couple of days to see what's happening.
> Hopefully i'll get some reasonable results...
It's not so much that it was your first time. The procedure of doing
a partial boil and then topping up the fermenter with water afterwards
(which many people do), tends to make the initial OG reading fairly
inaccurate. The top off water and the heavier wort from the boil don't
mix very easily. Even if you stir it a whole lot, it's probably not enough
to get them evenly distributed. The wort sinks to the bottom and the water
sits on top. The OG sample is going to read either too high or too low
depending on where you draw it from.
It's usually more accurate (and fairly easy) to just calculate your OG
in a partial boil extract batch then it is to measure it. I can do it with
lbs and gallons off the top of my head. The whole metric thing just gives
me a headache though. ;)
> BTW where does a high gravity result from, in general? Does it mean that
> i added too much water or could be a result of other factors as well?
Higher and lower gravity basically comes from the amount of sugars for
a given volume of water. So adding too much water will make the OG lower,
adding too little will make the OG higher. You an do the same thing by
adding too much (higher) or too little (lower) extract.
John.
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Date: 07 Nov 2006 18:11:12
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: Ultra-fast fermentation??
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Michael Pappas <michael@md.gr > wrote:
>
> On Saturday i brewed my first beer. Today, Tuesday, the fermentation has
> stopped, and i dont know whether this is normal or not.
>
> Boiled
> Munton's nut brow ale malt extract kit (1.8kg).
> Munton's kit enhancer malt extract (1.3 kg).
>
> Added some Fuggle hops at the last 10 minutes of boiling.
>
> Boiled for 35 minutes with 5.7lt of water in a 19lt pot. At first the
> wort was producing loads of foam so i had to turn the heat lower by 1/3.
> The foam went off but the wort continued boiling on a lower degree.
>
> Added water+wort (total 19lt) on a 25lt glass carboy.
>
> Measured OG of 1.035.
>
Really? That's very low for a brown ale - 1.035 is more of a mild.
> Added yeast (from the kit) at 24 C wort temperature.
Dry yeast?
<snip >
> So is this normal?
> Am i having an ultra-fast fermentation, or something else could have
> happened?
> Am i supposed to measure the gravity again to see what's going on? And
> if yes shall i open the fermenter and get a sample with a plastic hose
> as i did for the OG or will this expose it to contamination? (i dont see
> any other way of doing it)
Yes you need to check your gravity - once the gravity levels out
(stops dropping) your primary fermentation is done. Be careful to
sanitize whatever you stick in there to thief some wort.
1.035 is low - I can see dry yeast finishing that off in primary in 36
hours so everything seems about right with your timing. I make a mild
(at about 1.037) and primary fermentation os over rather
quickly. Excellent beer, though!
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 07 Nov 2006 22:26:54
From: Michael Pappas
Subject: Re: Ultra-fast fermentation??
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Michael Pappas wrote:
>
> On Saturday i brewed my first beer. Today, Tuesday, the fermentation has
> stopped, and i dont know whether this is normal or not.
>
> Boiled
> Munton's nut brow ale malt extract kit (1.8kg).
> Munton's kit enhancer malt extract (1.3 kg).
>
> Added some Fuggle hops at the last 10 minutes of boiling.
>
> Boiled for 35 minutes with 5.7lt of water in a 19lt pot. At first the
> wort was producing loads of foam so i had to turn the heat lower by 1/3.
> The foam went off but the wort continued boiling on a lower degree.
>
> Added water+wort (total 19lt) on a 25lt glass carboy.
>
> Measured OG of 1.035.
>
> Added yeast (from the kit) at 24 C wort temperature.
>
> Rechecked after about 6 hrs and the beer had a rich foam, while the
> fermentation lock was bubbling every few seconds. Room temperature was
> around 19C.
>
> On Sunday there was more kraeusen, and some dark brown scum on the
> opposite sides of the foam. Lock was bubbling more ofter, about once
> every 3-4 seconds. Sunday night room temperature dropped to about 17C.
>
> Monday kraeusen had significantly decreased to very little, plus some
> big buggles. Bubbling was much slower.Scum had disappeared. On Monday
> temperature increased back to 19-20C.
>
> Today, fermentation seems to have stopped completely. Foam stays at the
> same levels (ie very litttle). Room temperature remains the same.
>
> So is this normal?
> Am i having an ultra-fast fermentation, or something else could have
> happened?
> Am i supposed to measure the gravity again to see what's going on? And
> if yes shall i open the fermenter and get a sample with a plastic hose
> as i did for the OG or will this expose it to contamination? (i dont see
> any other way of doing it)
Ok, i just took a measurement and found gravity to be 1,022 at the
moment. I also tasted the beer and i didn't find no signs of
contamination on its taste or smell. I found it a bit watery and lightly
alcoholic, which i assume as expected at the moment, but overall
good-to-be flavor if it gets stronger, and definitely beyond my
expectations. It actually tastes like beer!
I also noticed that there was sediment all over the bottom of the fermenter.
Some clarifications too: I first added 3 gallons (11.5lt) of cold
not-boiled tap water on my fermenter. Then i added the 1,5 gallons
(5.7lt) of wort into my fermenter, and stirred. Then added more cold
water (to reach the 5 gallons) into the fermenter and stired again. Then
i added the prehydrated dry yeast, stired again, and added my bubble
type fermentation lock. I took my OG measurements before i added the yeast.
Now that i put the lock back, fermentation has started again on the same
levels as yesterday, bubbling about three times a minute. So at least
there is some yeast alive in there.
I also thought of something else. I used the (dried) yeast that comes
with the kit. Is is possible that the yeast quantity was enough for the
1.8kg of the kits malt extract (syrup) but not enough for the total
3.1kg i used?
Anyway, I'm thinking of leaving it for a couple of days and taking
another measurement.
Sorry about using satan's/communist :P metric system thing, from now on
i'll be using both metrics so its easier for everyone. Thanks for all
replies and useful hints :)
Michael
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Date: 07 Nov 2006 20:38:32
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Ultra-fast fermentation??
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On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 22:26:54 +0200, <michael@md.gr > wrote:
> Ok, i just took a measurement and found gravity to be 1,022 at the
> moment.
...
> Some clarifications too: I first added 3 gallons (11.5lt) of cold
> not-boiled tap water on my fermenter. Then i added the 1,5 gallons
> (5.7lt) of wort into my fermenter, and stirred. Then added more cold
> water (to reach the 5 gallons) into the fermenter and stired again. Then
> i added the prehydrated dry yeast, stired again, and added my bubble
> type fermentation lock. I took my OG measurements before i added the yeast.
Usually when you top off with water it never mixes enough, no matter how
much you think you stirred it. Don't worry, this happens to everyone
and it doesn't hurt the beer any. It just means that your OG measurement
isn't accurate. Another poster did the math, and it sounds like your OG
was probably around 1.049
Assuming the real OG was 1.049, then I don't think it is quite done yet
at 1.022. It's probably far enough along that it has started to slow
down, but it should continue some more. 1.022 is still a little high
for a reasonable FG (although a lot of that has to do with what brand of
extract you are using).
> Now that i put the lock back, fermentation has started again on the same
> levels as yesterday, bubbling about three times a minute. So at least
> there is some yeast alive in there.
That's about what I would expect, IE still some activity going on. I would
leave the beer alone for now and check the SG again this weekend.
> I also thought of something else. I used the (dried) yeast that comes
> with the kit. Is is possible that the yeast quantity was enough for the
> 1.8kg of the kits malt extract (syrup) but not enough for the total
> 3.1kg i used?
Do you know what size the packet of dry yeast was? Commonly you see either
7g or 11g packets of the "name brand" yeasts. I don't know what came with
your kit though.
> Anyway, I'm thinking of leaving it for a couple of days and taking
> another measurement.
Good plan. ;)
> Sorry about using satan's/communist :P metric system thing, from now on
> i'll be using both metrics so its easier for everyone. Thanks for all
> replies and useful hints :)
That's alright, no problem. A lot of the people on this group are based in
the US, so tend to be "metric challenged" (including me). :)
John.
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Date: 07 Nov 2006 11:07:21
From:
Subject: Re: Ultra-fast fermentation??
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Michael Pappas wrote:
> yournotauser@gmail.com wrote:
> > Michael Pappas wrote:
> >> Added water+wort (total 19lt) on a 25lt glass carboy.
> >>
> >> Measured OG of 1.035.
> >
> > Did you adjust your reading for temp, or cool the sample to 20C? If
> > not you didn't cool or adjust then your OG was most likely closer to
> > 1.048 which was what it should be for 3.1 Kg of Muntons LME.
> >
> > Bryan
> >
>
> I actually took several measurements as i was waiting for my sample's
> temperature to drop. So i measured around 1,038 @ 21C and 1,035 @ 20C.
>
> Again, i can't tell how accurate my measurements were..
>
> PS My kit was not a 3.1kg but one of 1.8kg.
Unless I was misreading I thought you said 1.8kg kit and 1.3 kg kicker
(additional) can. That's 3.1kg total. The weirder thing is the OG
went down as it cooled rather than going up as it should have. You
added all of the malt to the wort before the boil? I'm guessing that
since you did a concentrated boil and added water at the end it
stratified with a denser wort soloution near the bottom and it got
lighter toward the top. This is not that unusual with
partial/concentrated boils.
Bryan
Bryan
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Date: 07 Nov 2006 10:43:10
From:
Subject: Re: Ultra-fast fermentation??
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Michael Pappas wrote:
>
> Added water+wort (total 19lt) on a 25lt glass carboy.
>
> Measured OG of 1.035.
Did you adjust your reading for temp, or cool the sample to 20C? If
not you didn't cool or adjust then your OG was most likely closer to
1.048 which was what it should be for 3.1 Kg of Muntons LME.
Bryan
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Date: 07 Nov 2006 21:01:28
From: Michael Pappas
Subject: Re: Ultra-fast fermentation??
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yournotauser@gmail.com wrote:
> Michael Pappas wrote:
>> Added water+wort (total 19lt) on a 25lt glass carboy.
>>
>> Measured OG of 1.035.
>
> Did you adjust your reading for temp, or cool the sample to 20C? If
> not you didn't cool or adjust then your OG was most likely closer to
> 1.048 which was what it should be for 3.1 Kg of Muntons LME.
>
> Bryan
>
I actually took several measurements as i was waiting for my sample's
temperature to drop. So i measured around 1,038 @ 21C and 1,035 @ 20C.
Again, i can't tell how accurate my measurements were..
PS My kit was not a 3.1kg but one of 1.8kg.
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Date: 07 Nov 2006 19:12:22
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: Ultra-fast fermentation??
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Michael Pappas <michael@md.gr > wrote:
> yournotauser@gmail.com wrote:
>> Michael Pappas wrote:
>>> Added water+wort (total 19lt) on a 25lt glass carboy.
>>>
>>> Measured OG of 1.035.
>>
>> Did you adjust your reading for temp, or cool the sample to 20C? If
>> not you didn't cool or adjust then your OG was most likely closer to
>> 1.048 which was what it should be for 3.1 Kg of Muntons LME.
>>
>> Bryan
>>
>
> I actually took several measurements as i was waiting for my sample's
> temperature to drop. So i measured around 1,038 @ 21C and 1,035 @ 20C.
>
> Again, i can't tell how accurate my measurements were..
>
> PS My kit was not a 3.1kg but one of 1.8kg.
1.8 kg Munton's nut brow ale malt extract kit
1.3 kg Munton's kit enhancer malt extract
----
3.1 kg malt extract -- > 6.82 lbs malt extract
Assuming liquid malt extract:
(6.82 lbs)(36 GU/lb)(1.0 eff) = 245.5 GU
(245.5 GU)/(5 gal) = 49.1 GU/gal -- > 1.049 OG @ 5 gal
That's the calculation. Your calculated OG would be higher (by quite a
bit) if its dry. I think 36 GU/lb for LME is correct.
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 07 Nov 2006 19:24:54
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Ultra-fast fermentation??
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On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:12:22 GMT, <syborg@earthlink.net > wrote:
> Michael Pappas <michael@md.gr> wrote:
>> yournotauser@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Michael Pappas wrote:
>>>> Added water+wort (total 19lt) on a 25lt glass carboy.
>>>>
>>>> Measured OG of 1.035.
>>>
>>> Did you adjust your reading for temp, or cool the sample to 20C? If
>>> not you didn't cool or adjust then your OG was most likely closer to
>>> 1.048 which was what it should be for 3.1 Kg of Muntons LME.
>>>
>>> Bryan
>>>
>>
>> I actually took several measurements as i was waiting for my sample's
>> temperature to drop. So i measured around 1,038 @ 21C and 1,035 @ 20C.
>>
>> Again, i can't tell how accurate my measurements were..
>>
>> PS My kit was not a 3.1kg but one of 1.8kg.
>
> 1.8 kg Munton's nut brow ale malt extract kit
> 1.3 kg Munton's kit enhancer malt extract
> ----
> 3.1 kg malt extract --> 6.82 lbs malt extract
>
> Assuming liquid malt extract:
>
> (6.82 lbs)(36 GU/lb)(1.0 eff) = 245.5 GU
>
> (245.5 GU)/(5 gal) = 49.1 GU/gal --> 1.049 OG @ 5 gal
>
> That's the calculation. Your calculated OG would be higher (by quite a
> bit) if its dry. I think 36 GU/lb for LME is correct.
36 for LME is right for 1 lbs in 1 gallon (Note: US gallon, not UK gallon).
Your math should be right (or at least very close). I think 19L is
basically 5 gallons.
John.
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Date: 07 Nov 2006 18:19:44
From: Bart Goddard
Subject: Re: Ultra-fast fermentation??
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michael@md.gr wrote:
> Added yeast (from the kit) at 24 C wort temperature.
> So is this normal?
Dry yeast gets going pretty quickly, and since your
pitching temp. was a bit high, it's not too surprising
that you had a quick fermentation. When you rack to
secondary, you'll be able to taste that everything is
just fine, no doubt. Although you might have some
off-flavors which are inevitable when using the satanic
and communistic Metric system, you subversive you.
Bart
--
The man without a .sig
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Date: 08 Nov 2006 11:33:23
From: TheGist
Subject: Re: Ultra-fast fermentation??
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Bart Goddard wrote:
> michael@md.gr wrote:
>
>
>> Added yeast (from the kit) at 24 C wort temperature.
>
>> So is this normal?
>
> Dry yeast gets going pretty quickly, and since your
> pitching temp. was a bit high, it's not too surprising
> that you had a quick fermentation.
I had an earlier thread similar to this.
I was using Munton's dry yeast and seem to have gotten a very fast
fermentation. I haven't sampled anything from that bacth but I checked
the bottles and there seems to be a healthy layer of yeast at the bottom
which indicates the yeast are alive and kicking, they just proceeded in
primary faster than I had experienced before.
Why is it that dry yeast takes off quicker?
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Date: 08 Nov 2006 16:51:06
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Ultra-fast fermentation??
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On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:33:23 -0500, <nowhere@nospam.nospam > wrote:
> Why is it that dry yeast takes off quicker?
There's a lot more yeast in a dry packet than there is in a liquid tube/pack.
That's the main difference.
John.
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Date: 08 Nov 2006 17:07:23
From: Bart Goddard
Subject: Re: Ultra-fast fermentation??
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spam@shagg.net wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:33:23 -0500, <nowhere@nospam.nospam> wrote:
>> Why is it that dry yeast takes off quicker?
>
> There's a lot more yeast in a dry packet than there is in a liquid
> tube/pack. That's the main difference.
Hmm...I always thought that dry yeast were just hungrier...
Bart
--
The man without a .sig
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Date: 08 Nov 2006 10:42:54
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: Ultra-fast fermentation??
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TheGist wrote:
> Bart Goddard wrote:
>> michael@md.gr wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Added yeast (from the kit) at 24 C wort temperature.
>>
>>> So is this normal?
>>
>> Dry yeast gets going pretty quickly, and since your pitching temp. was
>> a bit high, it's not too surprising
>> that you had a quick fermentation.
> I had an earlier thread similar to this.
> I was using Munton's dry yeast and seem to have gotten a very fast
> fermentation. I haven't sampled anything from that bacth but I checked
> the bottles and there seems to be a healthy layer of yeast at the bottom
> which indicates the yeast are alive and kicking, they just proceeded in
> primary faster than I had experienced before.
> Why is it that dry yeast takes off quicker?
Higher cell count than liquid yeast, unless you make a large starter
with the liquid yeast (which you should always do).
If you want to see a really fast start, pitch on the cake from your last
primary.
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!
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