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Main
Date: 08 Aug 2006 14:41:40
From: JS
Subject: Stuck Sparge Every Time
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I took up batch sparging last year, and for me it's the way to go.
One thing I can't seem to get away from is the sparge sticking. I've
tried all sorts of proposed solutions, only to find that they just
don't do the trick with my set-up. Went from 5-gal cooler/Bazooka, to
48 qt Igloo square cooler/Bazooka T, to a 10-gal Rummermaid/Bazooka T,
to same with SS braid. Sticks every time no matter what.
The latest hint I read on this forum involved lightly crushing, then
running the grains thru again. This was supposed to keep the husks
from getting mangled. Well, I just tried it. and the 2nd crush
mangled them just as effectively as putting the grains thru just once
at a finer setting.
Still a stuck sparge. The only combo I have not tried is the
rectangular cooler/braid, which I believe is Denny's set-up. Would
the style of tun make that much difference as to stuck sparges?
I'd like to find a solution, esp. as I remember Denny stating on
another forum that the braid is virtually impervious to stuck sparges.
Well, not in my experience. If I don't find the answer, it won't be a
tragedy, as it's not all that much trouble to stir and vorlauf again
before continuing. It's just that I'm doing so much else right, and
it bugs the perfectionist in me that this is still an unresolved
issue.
Suggestions much appreciated.
John S.
--
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Date: 08 Aug 2006 14:20:00
From: El Bastardo
Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge Every Time
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Sounds like you might be stirring it or maybe flowing in the sparge
water to directly???
I use an EZ Masher in a half keg and have never had an issue no matter
the recipe...
as long as the grains aren't agitated they should act as a filter not a
clogger...
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Date: 08 Aug 2006 18:07:46
From: JS
Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge Every Time
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On 8 Aug 2006 14:20:00 -0700, "El Bastardo" <dtupper8@comcast.net >
wrote:
>Sounds like you might be stirring it or maybe flowing in the sparge
>water to directly???
>
>I use an EZ Masher in a half keg and have never had an issue no matter
>the recipe...
>
>as long as the grains aren't agitated they should act as a filter not a
>clogger...
Well, with batch sparging, you have to stir prior to vorlauf. I think
I'm simply crushing too fine, as it turns out today's brew was at 79%
efficiency.
The manifold idea mentioned by another respondant sounds intriguing,
but that's a project for another time.
The time I spent running the grains thru for a 2nd crush was a lot
longer than the time spent restirring and re-vorlaufing, and obviously
was not the answer anyway.
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Date: 08 Aug 2006 23:11:15
From: Steve/Aus
Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge Every Time
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"JS" <jayceeessfouratfrontiernetdotnet > wrote in message
news:bg2id2dfofji5mjcnjrmg3jcj7ujojd5g2@4ax.com...
> On 8 Aug 2006 14:20:00 -0700, "El Bastardo" <dtupper8@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> Well, with batch sparging, you have to stir prior to vorlauf. I think
> I'm simply crushing too fine, as it turns out today's brew was at 79%
> efficiency.
>
> The manifold idea mentioned by another respondant sounds intriguing,
> but that's a project for another time.
>
> The time I spent running the grains thru for a 2nd crush was a lot
> longer than the time spent restirring and re-vorlaufing, and obviously
> was not the answer anyway.
>
> --
Have you checked your design?
My first braid design collapsed with the weight of the grain and was also
too closed up and made for a slow run off. I thought at first it was stuck.
I modified the braid with an internal stiffener to prevent it from
collapsing and pulled it more open. It now works fine.
http://blogadelaide.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/The%20mash%20tun.jpg
Steve W (in Aus)
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 10:08:00
From: JS
Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge Every Time
|
>> --
>
>Have you checked your design?
>My first braid design collapsed with the weight of the grain and was also
>too closed up and made for a slow run off. I thought at first it was stuck.
>I modified the braid with an internal stiffener to prevent it from
>collapsing and pulled it more open. It now works fine.
>http://blogadelaide.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/The%20mash%20tun.jpg
>Steve W (in Aus)
>
My braid has never collapsed. I've heard of reinforcing with a
stiffener, but have never felt the need to do it.
Your braid, from what I can see, looks quite thick. I've only seen
ones that were relatively thin. Perhaps a thick one would be more
prone to collapsing.
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 10:06:32
From: Don Levey
Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge Every Time
|
"Steve/Aus" <adlab@bigponddotnetdotau.trashthisbit > writes:
> My first braid design collapsed with the weight of the grain and was also
> too closed up and made for a slow run off. I thought at first it was stuck.
> I modified the braid with an internal stiffener to prevent it from
> collapsing and pulled it more open. It now works fine.
> http://blogadelaide.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/The%20mash%20tun.jpg
> Steve W (in Aus)
>
>
Steve, what did you use for a stiffener? <insert obligatory Viagra
jokes here >
Seriously, what did you use that didn't impede flow? I've been
wondering about the collapse problem; I'll be making my own soon.
--
Don Levey $ cd /pub
Framingham, MA $ more beer
NOTE: email server uses spam filters; mail sent to salearn@the-leveys.us
will be used to tune the blocking lists.
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Date: 08 Aug 2006 21:07:16
From: Duke
Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge Every Time
|
"JS" <jayceeessfouratfrontiernetdotnet > wrote in message
news:vvlhd2tv1pv66gp789fmngbggsq1lit3rr@4ax.com...
>I took up batch sparging last year, and for me it's the way to go.
> One thing I can't seem to get away from is the sparge sticking. I've
> tried all sorts of proposed solutions, only to find that they just
> don't do the trick with my set-up. Went from 5-gal cooler/Bazooka, to
> 48 qt Igloo square cooler/Bazooka T, to a 10-gal Rummermaid/Bazooka T,
> to same with SS braid. Sticks every time no matter what.
>
> The latest hint I read on this forum involved lightly crushing, then
> running the grains thru again. This was supposed to keep the husks
> from getting mangled. Well, I just tried it. and the 2nd crush
> mangled them just as effectively as putting the grains thru just once
> at a finer setting.
>
> Still a stuck sparge. The only combo I have not tried is the
> rectangular cooler/braid, which I believe is Denny's set-up. Would
> the style of tun make that much difference as to stuck sparges?
>
> I'd like to find a solution, esp. as I remember Denny stating on
> another forum that the braid is virtually impervious to stuck sparges.
> Well, not in my experience. If I don't find the answer, it won't be a
> tragedy, as it's not all that much trouble to stir and vorlauf again
> before continuing. It's just that I'm doing so much else right, and
> it bugs the perfectionist in me that this is still an unresolved
> issue.
>
> Suggestions much appreciated.
>
> John S.
>
> --
> Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
> ------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDem
Have you tried rice hulls ?
Duke
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Date: 08 Aug 2006 19:54:04
From: ET
Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge Every Time
|
JS <jayceeessfouratfrontiernetdotnet > wrote in
news:vvlhd2tv1pv66gp789fmngbggsq1lit3rr@4ax.com:
> I took up batch sparging last year, and for me it's the way to go.
> One thing I can't seem to get away from is the sparge sticking. I've
> tried all sorts of proposed solutions, only to find that they just
> don't do the trick with my set-up. Went from 5-gal cooler/Bazooka, to
> 48 qt Igloo square cooler/Bazooka T, to a 10-gal Rummermaid/Bazooka T,
> to same with SS braid. Sticks every time no matter what.
>
> The latest hint I read on this forum involved lightly crushing, then
> running the grains thru again. This was supposed to keep the husks
> from getting mangled. Well, I just tried it. and the 2nd crush
> mangled them just as effectively as putting the grains thru just once
> at a finer setting.
>
> Still a stuck sparge. The only combo I have not tried is the
> rectangular cooler/braid, which I believe is Denny's set-up. Would
> the style of tun make that much difference as to stuck sparges?
>
> I'd like to find a solution, esp. as I remember Denny stating on
> another forum that the braid is virtually impervious to stuck sparges.
> Well, not in my experience. If I don't find the answer, it won't be a
> tragedy, as it's not all that much trouble to stir and vorlauf again
> before continuing. It's just that I'm doing so much else right, and
> it bugs the perfectionist in me that this is still an unresolved
> issue.
>
> Suggestions much appreciated.
>
> John S.
>
> --
> Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
> ------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDem
you are either 1) crushing too much, or 2) not stirring right before
vorlauf.
The finer the crush the better your efficiency. When you get a stuck
sparge, just back off the crush a bit the next batch and you should be
golden. I use a rectangular cooler with the "cut copper pipe" manifold,
but that really shouldnt matter.
--
-- ET >:-)
"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools."---- Douglas Adams
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Date: 08 Aug 2006 12:14:31
From: dutchbrew/chicago
Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge Every Time
|
I have always used a false bottom and often got stuck sparges when my
mash was thick (1-1.2qt water/1lb grain). When i go with 1.5qt
water/1lb I havent had any stuck sparge problems. I also fly sparge
instead of batch sparge.
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Date: 08 Aug 2006 11:56:43
From: Ryan Case
Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge Every Time
|
JS wrote:
> I took up batch sparging last year, and for me it's the way to go.
> One thing I can't seem to get away from is the sparge sticking. I've
> tried all sorts of proposed solutions, only to find that they just
> don't do the trick with my set-up. Went from 5-gal cooler/Bazooka, to
> 48 qt Igloo square cooler/Bazooka T, to a 10-gal Rummermaid/Bazooka T,
> to same with SS braid. Sticks every time no matter what.
>
> The latest hint I read on this forum involved lightly crushing, then
> running the grains thru again. This was supposed to keep the husks
> from getting mangled. Well, I just tried it. and the 2nd crush
> mangled them just as effectively as putting the grains thru just once
> at a finer setting.
>
> Still a stuck sparge. The only combo I have not tried is the
> rectangular cooler/braid, which I believe is Denny's set-up. Would
> the style of tun make that much difference as to stuck sparges?
>
> I'd like to find a solution, esp. as I remember Denny stating on
> another forum that the braid is virtually impervious to stuck sparges.
> Well, not in my experience. If I don't find the answer, it won't be a
> tragedy, as it's not all that much trouble to stir and vorlauf again
> before continuing. It's just that I'm doing so much else right, and
> it bugs the perfectionist in me that this is still an unresolved
> issue.
>
> Suggestions much appreciated.
I fly sparge in a 50 quart rect cooler with a manifold made from cpvc. I
can put four inches of water on top of the grain bed and then pull off
to the point that the grain bed compacts down three+ inches from where
it was during the mash. I don't get stuck run offs doing this with my
current configuration. I don't add rice hulls or anything else to help
bulk the grains either.
I did, with my older, smaller, rect cooler and older more poorly
designed manifold get a stuck sparge every now and then.
I would think that the greater surface area on the bottom of the tun
that you pull wort from the less chance you have of a stuck run off.
When I redid my manifold I paid careful attention to make sure that
there wasn't any spot of the bottom of the tun that was more then 2"
from a slit in the manifold.
I realize that that wasn't really a suggestion, but sometimes hearing
others experiences can jog something for me so I thought that I would
throw it out there.
Ryan
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Date: 08 Aug 2006 18:55:57
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge Every Time
|
On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 14:41:40 -0400, < > wrote:
> I took up batch sparging last year, and for me it's the way to go.
> One thing I can't seem to get away from is the sparge sticking. I've
> tried all sorts of proposed solutions, only to find that they just
> don't do the trick with my set-up. Went from 5-gal cooler/Bazooka, to
> 48 qt Igloo square cooler/Bazooka T, to a 10-gal Rummermaid/Bazooka T,
> to same with SS braid. Sticks every time no matter what.
Are you possibly crushing too much?
John.
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Date: 08 Aug 2006 13:50:43
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge Every Time
|
JS wrote:
[snip]
>
> I'd like to find a solution, esp. as I remember Denny stating on
> another forum that the braid is virtually impervious to stuck sparges.
> Well, not in my experience. If I don't find the answer, it won't be a
> tragedy, as it's not all that much trouble to stir and vorlauf again
> before continuing. It's just that I'm doing so much else right, and
> it bugs the perfectionist in me that this is still an unresolved
> issue.
>
Just out of curiosity, how much water do you usually mash in with?
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 07:48:08
From: Jeff
Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge Every Time
|
MarkMc wrote:
> I'm curious which way up the slotted manifold folks have the slots
> facing? Mine are face-up as this is what I was told to do, but this
Down. I would think that the weight of the grain on top of
upward-facing slots would cause it to not work very well. Pointing the
slots down worked great for me.
Don Levey wrote:
>> I've heard that the vast majority of the conversion in the mash happens
>> up front - 7-10 minutes for most of it, the rest within the hour. What
>> advantage does a multi-hour mash give?
None, except that I can go to bed and get rolling on it first thing in
the morning. I have not detected any disadvantages, but I'm sure over
extraction of tannins could be an issue in some grain/water
combinations. I can say that a 24 hour mash is a little too long :) I
was unable to continue a batch and had to leave it for a full day. At
24 hours it was very sour and unbelevably stuck. I would have switched
to trying to make a Berliner Weise at that point if it wasn't for it
being so stuck. But 8-10 hours has never been a problem in the 5 or so
times I've done it. I don't think I'd overnight mash anything I was
going to invest a lot of cellar time on, like a barleywine.
--Jeff
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 05:23:30
From: MarkMc
Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge Every Time
|
I don't intend to hijack this thread, but I have the slotted manifold
and have never had a stuck sparge, but I've had slow ones.
I'm curious which way up the slotted manifold folks have the slots
facing? Mine are face-up as this is what I was told to do, but this
somehow doesn't feel right, and surely, facing down would make sense?
Interestingly (perhaps only to me?) is that I almost always get a stuck
runoff from the kettle with the same arrangement. I boil with loose
hops/compressed hops. The hops just clog the slots.
I've recently made a manifold from a pair of s/s braid. Will this
work, or will I need to support the braid with some tubing inside?
Cheers,
Mark
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 14:57:21
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge Every Time
|
On 9 Aug 2006 05:23:30 -0700, <mmcnospam@yahoo.co.uk > wrote:
> I'm curious which way up the slotted manifold folks have the slots
> facing? Mine are face-up as this is what I was told to do, but this
> somehow doesn't feel right, and surely, facing down would make sense?
Definitely face the slots down.
John.
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 04:29:46
From: Jeff
Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge Every Time
|
JS wrote:
> don't do the trick with my set-up. Went from 5-gal cooler/Bazooka, to
> 48 qt Igloo square cooler/Bazooka T, to a 10-gal Rummermaid/Bazooka T,
> to same with SS braid. Sticks every time no matter what.
FWIW, I've used the slotted copper manifold (just a coil of soft copper
on the bottom of a round 5gal cooler, with cuts on the bottom side
every 1/4 - 1/2 inch) and a SS false bottom. The copper manifold design
is way better at not getting stuck, but is kind of a pain so I use the
false bottom now. I think a well made copper manifold that you can take
apart in a square cooler would probably work fantastic.
As others have pointed out, the crush is probably a big factor. Also,
if you are mashing for very long periods it can lead to stuck run offs.
(I often mash over night - but if you go longer than 10 hours, runoff
can get difficult).
Just to rule out the obvious - I assume you are factoring in the
absorbtion of the grain and not expecting to get out everything that
you initially put in, correct?
--Jeff
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 10:07:50
From: Don Levey
Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge Every Time
|
"Jeff" <jjhenze@gmail.com > writes:
> As others have pointed out, the crush is probably a big factor. Also,
> if you are mashing for very long periods it can lead to stuck run offs.
> (I often mash over night - but if you go longer than 10 hours, runoff
> can get difficult).
>
I've heard that the vast majority of the conversion in the mash happens
up front - 7-10 minutes for most of it, the rest within the hour. What
advantage does a multi-hour mash give?
--
Don Levey $ cd /pub
Framingham, MA $ more beer
NOTE: email server uses spam filters; mail sent to salearn@the-leveys.us
will be used to tune the blocking lists.
|
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 11:01:50
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge Every Time
|
Don Levey wrote:
> I've heard that the vast majority of the conversion in the mash happens
> up front - 7-10 minutes for most of it, the rest within the hour. What
> advantage does a multi-hour mash give?
A more fermentable dextrin profile. Keep in mind that the enzymes keep
working after "conversion" is complete.
------------ >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 19:18:01
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge Every Time
|
On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 11:01:50 -0700, <denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us > wrote:
> Don Levey wrote:
>
>> I've heard that the vast majority of the conversion in the mash happens
>> up front - 7-10 minutes for most of it, the rest within the hour. What
>> advantage does a multi-hour mash give?
>
> A more fermentable dextrin profile. Keep in mind that the enzymes keep
> working after "conversion" is complete.
Yeah, I think it would be really difficult (if not impossible) to create
a complex sugar profile doing a really long mash. Even at the mash temps
associated with producing complex sugars (158F for example), continued
exposure to enzymes in that temp range will eventually break the sugars
down into simple ones. This is one of the reasons given for doing mashouts
after a normal duration mash... ie to halt (or at least begin to halt)
enzyme activity. I would expect that overnight mashes would always yield
relatively high attenuations. I don't know if you have to do an overnight
mash to achieve that though, you could just do a normal mash at lower temps
(145F for example) and get the same effect, right?
John.
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 12:37:10
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge Every Time
|
John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> This is one of the reasons given for doing mashouts
> after a normal duration mash... ie to halt (or at least begin to halt)
> enzyme activity. I would expect that overnight mashes would always yield
> relatively high attenuations. I don't know if you have to do an overnight
> mash to achieve that though, you could just do a normal mash at lower temps
> (145F for example) and get the same effect, right?
First of all, I have yet to see a homebrewer who does a mashout at a
high enough temp for a long enough time to denature the enzymes. It
doesn't happen instantly!
But I agree on the mash....I think you hit a point of diminishing
returns. I doubt an overnight mash would yield a much more fermentable
wort than one domne at 145F for 90-120 min.
-------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 20:21:51
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge Every Time
|
On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 12:37:10 -0700, <denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us > wrote:
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>
>> This is one of the reasons given for doing mashouts
>> after a normal duration mash... ie to halt (or at least begin to halt)
>> enzyme activity. I would expect that overnight mashes would always yield
>> relatively high attenuations. I don't know if you have to do an overnight
>> mash to achieve that though, you could just do a normal mash at lower temps
>> (145F for example) and get the same effect, right?
>
> First of all, I have yet to see a homebrewer who does a mashout at a
> high enough temp for a long enough time to denature the enzymes. It
> doesn't happen instantly!
I knew you were going to say that! That's why I put the bit in paranthesis.
;)
John.
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Date: 10 Aug 2006 10:59:37
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge Every Time
|
John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> I knew you were going to say that! That's why I put the bit in paranthesis.
> ;)
YER PSYCHIC!!! ;)
-------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 10 Aug 2006 18:13:13
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge Every Time
|
On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 10:59:37 -0700, <denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us > wrote:
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>
>> I knew you were going to say that! That's why I put the bit in paranthesis.
>> ;)
>
> YER PSYCHIC!!! ;)
Nah, I've just heard you say it enough times. ;) That's one problem with
being an old fart in the news group. You start to know what the other old
farts are going to say before they say it. Just a side effect of the same
topics coming up over and over again.
John.
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 10 Aug 2006 11:32:04
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge Every Time
|
John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> Nah, I've just heard you say it enough times. ;) That's one problem with
> being an old fart in the news group. You start to know what the other old
> farts are going to say before they say it. Just a side effect of the same
> topics coming up over and over again.
WOW!!!! I KNEW you were going to say that!!! ;)
----------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
|
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Date: 10 Aug 2006 18:57:26
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge Every Time
|
On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 11:32:04 -0700, <denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us > wrote:
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>
>> Nah, I've just heard you say it enough times. ;) That's one problem with
>> being an old fart in the news group. You start to know what the other old
>> farts are going to say before they say it. Just a side effect of the same
>> topics coming up over and over again.
>
> WOW!!!! I KNEW you were going to say that!!! ;)
Why am I picturing Statler and Waldorf (the two old guys in the balcony)
from the Muppet Show. ;)
John.
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 10:00:13
From: JS
Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge Every Time
|
On 9 Aug 2006 04:29:46 -0700, "Jeff" <jjhenze@gmail.com > wrote:
>
>Just to rule out the obvious - I assume you are factoring in the
>absorbtion of the grain and not expecting to get out everything that
>you initially put in, correct?
>
>--Jeff
Of course. When I say stuck, I mean there is plenty of visible liquid
on top, and the grain bed has become such a mass of sludge, it
prevents wort from draining thru.
--
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| |
Date: 09 Aug 2006 12:47:56
From: Jeff
Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge Every Time
|
John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> Yeah, I think it would be really difficult (if not impossible) to create
> a complex sugar profile doing a really long mash. Even at the mash temps
> associated with producing complex sugars (158F for example), continued
> exposure to enzymes in that temp range will eventually break the sugars
> down into simple ones. This is one of the reasons given for doing mashouts
> after a normal duration mash... ie to halt (or at least begin to halt)
> enzyme activity. I would expect that overnight mashes would always yield
> relatively high attenuations. I don't know if you have to do an overnight
> mash to achieve that though, you could just do a normal mash at lower temps
> (145F for example) and get the same effect, right?
I've been doing wheats using an overnight mash by the seat of my pants
for the most part. The last few times (not sure about all of them
though) were struck at a higher temperature (157F). The higher
temperatures would probably denature some (but probably not all) of the
enzymes that you associate with lower temperatures. But the final
results are that generally I get a FG of around 1.010 or occationally
as low as 1.008, with OGs around 1.050 - 1.054 or therabouts. Most of
this is playing around with wheat (50 - 60% wheat malt w/ 2 row) beers
(but no bananna flavor, thanks) with the goal being a very drinkable
summer beer that my BMC drinking friends will appreciate (as will I).
It's worked pretty well toward that end.
--Jeff
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 20:26:34
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge Every Time
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On 9 Aug 2006 12:47:56 -0700, <jjhenze@gmail.com > wrote:
>
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>> Yeah, I think it would be really difficult (if not impossible) to create
>> a complex sugar profile doing a really long mash. Even at the mash temps
>> associated with producing complex sugars (158F for example), continued
>> exposure to enzymes in that temp range will eventually break the sugars
>> down into simple ones. This is one of the reasons given for doing mashouts
>> after a normal duration mash... ie to halt (or at least begin to halt)
>> enzyme activity. I would expect that overnight mashes would always yield
>> relatively high attenuations. I don't know if you have to do an overnight
>> mash to achieve that though, you could just do a normal mash at lower temps
>> (145F for example) and get the same effect, right?
>
> I've been doing wheats using an overnight mash by the seat of my pants
> for the most part. The last few times (not sure about all of them
> though) were struck at a higher temperature (157F). The higher
> temperatures would probably denature some (but probably not all) of the
> enzymes that you associate with lower temperatures. But the final
> results are that generally I get a FG of around 1.010 or occationally
> as low as 1.008, with OGs around 1.050 - 1.054 or therabouts. Most of
> this is playing around with wheat (50 - 60% wheat malt w/ 2 row) beers
> (but no bananna flavor, thanks) with the goal being a very drinkable
> summer beer that my BMC drinking friends will appreciate (as will I).
> It's worked pretty well toward that end.
You're getting >80% attenuation, which is relatively high. If you
specifically wanted a relatively low attenuation, you'd have a very hard
time doing it with an overnight mash.
John.
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 11:04:16
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge Every Time
|
JS wrote:
> I'd like to find a solution, esp. as I remember Denny stating on
> another forum that the braid is virtually impervious to stuck sparges.
> Well, not in my experience. If I don't find the answer, it won't be a
> tragedy, as it's not all that much trouble to stir and vorlauf again
> before continuing. It's just that I'm doing so much else right, and
> it bugs the perfectionist in me that this is still an unresolved
> issue.
>
> Suggestions much appreciated.
How are you doing your vorlauf? Are you fully opening the valve all the
way through? If so, you may be compacting the grainbed, leading to
sticking. I just barely crack the valve as I fill a 2 qt. pitcher for
the vorlauf. When the pitcher is full, I redirect the runoff to the
kettle, without shutting the valve, while I pour the pitcher back over
the top of the mash. Then I open up the valve....at this point, 2 stuck
runoffs out of 258 batches.
---------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 22:04:14
From: JS
Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge Every Time
|
On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 11:04:16 -0700, Denny Conn
<denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us > wrote:
>JS wrote:
>
>> I'd like to find a solution, esp. as I remember Denny stating on
>> another forum that the braid is virtually impervious to stuck sparges.
>> Well, not in my experience. If I don't find the answer, it won't be a
>> tragedy, as it's not all that much trouble to stir and vorlauf again
>> before continuing. It's just that I'm doing so much else right, and
>> it bugs the perfectionist in me that this is still an unresolved
>> issue.
>>
>> Suggestions much appreciated.
>
>How are you doing your vorlauf? Are you fully opening the valve all the
>way through? If so, you may be compacting the grainbed, leading to
>sticking. I just barely crack the valve as I fill a 2 qt. pitcher for
>the vorlauf. When the pitcher is full, I redirect the runoff to the
>kettle, without shutting the valve, while I pour the pitcher back over
>the top of the mash. Then I open up the valve....at this point, 2 stuck
>runoffs out of 258 batches.
>
> ---------->Denny
My vorlauf is always done with a slight flow, and I find that barely
more that a quart is needed before it's relatively clear-running.
Then I open the valve a little more, tho not all the way, and pour the
cloudy portion back into the mash. It just occurred to me, as you
stated you redirect the runoff before opening the valve, that I was
doing it the other way around. You wouldn't think the effect of
pouring the runoff AFTER opening the valve would be to cause sticking,
would you? What I don't get is how the valve being fully open during
vorlauf compacts the bed, whereas for you having it open after vorlauf
causes no problems. Seems illogical. Why wouldn't a fast flow always
cause sticking, and not just during vorlauf?
John S.
--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------- >>>>>>http://www.NewsDem
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Date: 10 Aug 2006 11:05:06
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Stuck Sparge Every Time
|
JS wrote:
> My vorlauf is always done with a slight flow, and I find that barely
> more that a quart is needed before it's relatively clear-running.
> Then I open the valve a little more, tho not all the way, and pour the
> cloudy portion back into the mash. It just occurred to me, as you
> stated you redirect the runoff before opening the valve, that I was
> doing it the other way around. You wouldn't think the effect of
> pouring the runoff AFTER opening the valve would be to cause sticking,
> would you? What I don't get is how the valve being fully open during
> vorlauf compacts the bed, whereas for you having it open after vorlauf
> causes no problems. Seems illogical. Why wouldn't a fast flow always
> cause sticking, and not just during vorlauf?
You're right, it really doesn't make a lot of sense. My rationale (such
as it is!) for not opening up the valve until after I return my vorlauf
is that the bed may get disturbed as I pour it back in and keeping the
flow at a lower rate give it more time to clear and reset the grainbed
if it does get disturbed. But that's only conjecture, not something
I've tested. But just for giggles, you might want to try it that way
just to find out.
----------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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