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Date: 23 Aug 2006 10:36:26
From: Gerard Eberlein
Subject: Stressing Bavarian Yeast for Hefeweizen
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I made this very simple Hefeweizen recipe once before and it came out with
plenty of bananna and no clove flavour that I could tell:
6 LBS wheat dme - 55% wheat / 45% barley
4 oz. german munich malt - steeped
1 oz hallertau herbrucker 3% AA hops - bittering
1 smackpack of Wyeast bavarian 3056
OG was a bit low, 1.049, Pitched with no starter @ 71F, showed vigorous
activity @ 8 hours, moved bucket to a 65F area of the house where the
ferment stayed wort temp of about 69-70F for a week, and the FG was fine,
about 1.012.
My question is: I have heard from someone that if you stress this kind of
yeast by 1) underpitching and/or 2) pitching at wort temps of about 64-65F
that this will stress the yeast and make them produce more of the byproducts
that give the clove aspect of a Hefeweizen.
Has anyone tried this? Is this advisable at all? The last thing I want is a
stuck ferment. Obviously I already underpitch by using a smackpack without a
starter. That, as I said before dind't give me anything but the bananna.
Thanx in advance,
Gerard
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Date: 23 Aug 2006 09:33:18
From: Phil
Subject: Re: Stressing Bavarian Yeast for Hefeweizen
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If you want more banana esters, definitely ferment it warm. I made a
Wit once and we had a warm spell while it sat in my tub (and we were
gone for a few days). Not sure how hot the fermenter got, but the
internal temp of the house got above 85 F. When I racked that think
out of primary, the smell was massively tropic. I drank it, though.
Pass the whipped cream. :-)
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Date: 23 Aug 2006 15:39:54
From: Adam Preble
Subject: Re: Stressing Bavarian Yeast for Hefeweizen
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Gerard Eberlein wrote:
> My question is: I have heard from someone that if you stress this kind of
> yeast by 1) underpitching and/or 2) pitching at wort temps of about 64-65F
> that this will stress the yeast and make them produce more of the byproducts
> that give the clove aspect of a Hefeweizen.
>
> Has anyone tried this? Is this advisable at all? The last thing I want is a
> stuck ferment. Obviously I already underpitch by using a smackpack without a
> starter. That, as I said before dind't give me anything but the bananna.
I'm not sure if I got the cloves yet, but I did produce a fairly estery
Hefeweizen just a little bit ago. Unfortunately, I did so many strange
things that I couldn't state one way or another what got me the flavors.
I did an extract Hefeweizen awhile ago with a friend. It was a mini
mash so the grain contribution was low. It did have some banana aspect,
but I think it was very fusel as well; it was unpleasant the drink for
months. It then became great. I wasn't keeping notes then, but I think
he kept his A/C a little high.
This last batch I also kept warm, so I don't know what the deal is. I
fermented it upstairs on purpose and didn't get the fusels. My yeast
was a White Labs vial, without additional nutrients or a starter. I had
heard this story too about the esters coming from an underpitched batch.
It seemed to work, but I don't know if the warmer fermentation helped.
On top of this, I was using homemade malted wheat, with about a pound of
extract to correct for gravity. It seemed to function like any other
malted wheat (just with less sugar contribution) so I don't see it being
a factor.
Finally, I bottled young without a secondary ferment. I believe a lot
of that character is in the nose, and you'll lose it if you let it set
to long. I can't say much about it, other than I fear bottle bombs due
to the carbonation requirements for a Hefeweizen, combined with a
fermentation I only hope finished properly in the first place.
The beer, although not fully carbonated, has a good amount of bananas
and I think it has some clove character too. It's not much, since it
doesn't taste literally like cloves. But the smell is very much like a
banana peel in a garbage can.
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Date: 23 Aug 2006 07:53:39
From: Randal
Subject: Re: Stressing Bavarian Yeast for Hefeweizen
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Gerard Eberlein wrote:
> I made this very simple Hefeweizen recipe once before and it came out with
> plenty of bananna and no clove flavour that I could tell:
>
Banana is mainly from the esters you are producing. To get a more
pronounced clove flavor you really need to mash and perform a ferulic
acid rest. Ferulic acid is present in large quantites in wheat malt and
in conjunction with the yeast provides a lot of the clove-like flavors.
_Randal
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Date: 23 Aug 2006 09:42:22
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: Stressing Bavarian Yeast for Hefeweizen
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Gerard Eberlein wrote:
> I made this very simple Hefeweizen recipe once before and it came out with
> plenty of bananna and no clove flavour that I could tell:
>
> 6 LBS wheat dme - 55% wheat / 45% barley
> 4 oz. german munich malt - steeped
> 1 oz hallertau herbrucker 3% AA hops - bittering
> 1 smackpack of Wyeast bavarian 3056
> OG was a bit low, 1.049, Pitched with no starter @ 71F, showed vigorous
> activity @ 8 hours, moved bucket to a 65F area of the house where the
> ferment stayed wort temp of about 69-70F for a week, and the FG was fine,
> about 1.012.
>
> My question is: I have heard from someone that if you stress this kind of
> yeast by 1) underpitching and/or 2) pitching at wort temps of about 64-65F
> that this will stress the yeast and make them produce more of the byproducts
> that give the clove aspect of a Hefeweizen.
>
> Has anyone tried this? Is this advisable at all? The last thing I want is a
> stuck ferment. Obviously I already underpitch by using a smackpack without a
> starter. That, as I said before dind't give me anything but the bananna.
>
> Thanx in advance,
> Gerard
I don't think I'd underpitch any more than you already are.
Underpitching doesn't necessarily stress the yeast -- it simply makes
them grow more, which produces more byp[roducts of growth (esters in
this case). I'm not really a hefe brewer, but I wonder if raising the
temp a bit might not give you what you want.
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!
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Date: 23 Aug 2006 23:51:20
From: David M. Taylor
Subject: Re: Stressing Bavarian Yeast for Hefeweizen
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"Gerard Eberlein" <dormouse@charter.net > wrote in message
news:QJZGg.270$Im5.236@newsfe03.lga...
>I made this very simple Hefeweizen recipe once before and it came out with
> plenty of bananna and no clove flavour that I could tell:
>
> 6 LBS wheat dme - 55% wheat / 45% barley
> 4 oz. german munich malt - steeped
> 1 oz hallertau herbrucker 3% AA hops - bittering
> 1 smackpack of Wyeast bavarian 3056
> OG was a bit low, 1.049, Pitched with no starter @ 71F, showed vigorous
> activity @ 8 hours, moved bucket to a 65F area of the house where the
> ferment stayed wort temp of about 69-70F for a week, and the FG was fine,
> about 1.012.
>
> My question is: I have heard from someone that if you stress this kind of
> yeast by 1) underpitching and/or 2) pitching at wort temps of about 64-65F
> that this will stress the yeast and make them produce more of the
> byproducts
> that give the clove aspect of a Hefeweizen.
>
> Has anyone tried this? Is this advisable at all? The last thing I want is
> a
> stuck ferment. Obviously I already underpitch by using a smackpack without
> a
> starter. That, as I said before dind't give me anything but the bananna.
I don't know anything about yeast "stress" causing more clove, but I did
have similar questions with my first hefeweizen. I love the clove flavor
but can't stand banana. Of course, my first hefeweizen was all banana! So,
I researched how to fix this, and my second batch was darn near perfect. In
my experience, the clove/banana balance is mostly based on temperature.
There is a specific temperature for each hefeweizen strain, somewhere around
about 68-69 F, where the clove and banana character is well balanced. If
you want more clove and little or no banana, simply ferment at 67 F or less.
If you can get it down to like 65 F, you're pretty much guaranteed plenty of
clove and no banana. If you prefer the banana, aim for 70-71 F or more...
all banana and no clove. I don't know all the science of why it works, just
that it does work.
My guess is if you had pitched the yeast and fermented the first 8 hours in
your 65 F area instead of 71 F, you'd have more clove and less banana. Try
it next time, I think you'll be pleased with the results. Just remember,
keep it cool.
--
Dave
"Just a drink, a little drink, and I'll be feeling GOOooOOooOOooD!" --
Genesis, 1973-ish
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Date: 23 Aug 2006 19:30:20
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Stressing Bavarian Yeast for Hefeweizen
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On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 10:36:26 -0400, <dormouse@charter.net > wrote:
> My question is: I have heard from someone that if you stress this kind of
> yeast by 1) underpitching and/or 2) pitching at wort temps of about 64-65F
> that this will stress the yeast and make them produce more of the byproducts
> that give the clove aspect of a Hefeweizen.
I wouldn't underpitch on purpose, but higher fermentation temps should
yield more of the clove/banana aspects. If you're looking to increase just
the clove without the banana, then I'm not sure. That may just be a
result of which strain of yeast you select. I'm not aware of a way to
adjust the relative amounts, but I haven't really looked for a way either.
John.
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