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Main
Date: 07 Aug 2006 09:40:42
From: Ranger Steve
Subject: Slow lager fermentation
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I'm in the midst of my first lager, a Marzen. I pitched two vials of
White labs Oktoberfest/Marzen yeast (WLP820) at 70' then cooled to 50'
for primary fermentation. I had a little bit of Krauzen initially but
no airlock activity. Then after about 4 days I started getting about
30 bubbles/minute and a krauzen rose about 1 inch.
The initial gravity was 1.068. After 15 days I went to go do a
diacetyl rest. I sampled the wort and the gravity had only fallen to
1.040. There is still some very slow airlock activity, maybe 3 or 4
bubbles per minute.
So my question is: Is there any chance that this beer will ever
ferment completely? Is there anything I can do at this point to get
the yeast going again? Other than being extremely sweet, the sample
smelled and tasted good and I'd hate to throw the whole thing down the
drain. But I don't want to waste 2 months lagering a dissapointing
batch either.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated
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Date: 07 Aug 2006 10:07:11
From: Ranger Steve
Subject: Re: Slow lager fermentation
|
>
> You could try raising the temp to around 60F or so and rousing.
-- I'll give this a shot and report back. I assume by rousing you mean
stirring the trub up?
> Next time, consider making a starter (I'd do at least a gallon for a
> 5-gallon batch, decanting the spent starter wort prior to pitching) and
> pitching at or close to your ferment temp. I have never seen good
> results from pitching in the 70s and dropping the temp. Either the yeast
> crash out, or the resulting beer isn't particularly clean.
Definitely next time -- I was just too anxious to get it going!
Thanks.
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Date: 07 Aug 2006 12:59:38
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: Slow lager fermentation
|
Ranger Steve wrote:
>>You could try raising the temp to around 60F or so and rousing.
>
>
> -- I'll give this a shot and report back. I assume by rousing you mean
> stirring the trub up?
The yeast, actually, much of which has probably settled out at the
bottom of the fementer along with the trub (trub is the precipitated
protein material from the wort). You want to do this is a way that
doesn't aerate the beer. If you're using a carboy, close it up and rock
it a bit (you may need to vent occassionaly). If using a bucket, careful
stirring with a sanitized long-handled spoon will work.
Good luck -- m
--
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|
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Date: 07 Aug 2006 18:50:44
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Slow lager fermentation
|
On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 12:59:38 -0500, <mikey666@666swampgas.666com > wrote:
> Ranger Steve wrote:
>>>You could try raising the temp to around 60F or so and rousing.
>>
>>
>> -- I'll give this a shot and report back. I assume by rousing you mean
>> stirring the trub up?
>
> The yeast, actually, much of which has probably settled out at the
> bottom of the fementer along with the trub (trub is the precipitated
> protein material from the wort). You want to do this is a way that
> doesn't aerate the beer. If you're using a carboy, close it up and rock
> it a bit (you may need to vent occassionaly). If using a bucket, careful
> stirring with a sanitized long-handled spoon will work.
IMO, swirling the bucket should work too. That way you don't need to open
the lid or worry about sanitizing a spoon.
John.
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Date: 07 Aug 2006 11:53:49
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: Slow lager fermentation
|
Ranger Steve wrote:
> I'm in the midst of my first lager, a Marzen. I pitched two vials of
> White labs Oktoberfest/Marzen yeast (WLP820) at 70' then cooled to 50'
> for primary fermentation. I had a little bit of Krauzen initially but
> no airlock activity. Then after about 4 days I started getting about
> 30 bubbles/minute and a krauzen rose about 1 inch.
>
> The initial gravity was 1.068. After 15 days I went to go do a
> diacetyl rest. I sampled the wort and the gravity had only fallen to
> 1.040. There is still some very slow airlock activity, maybe 3 or 4
> bubbles per minute.
>
> So my question is: Is there any chance that this beer will ever
> ferment completely? Is there anything I can do at this point to get
> the yeast going again? Other than being extremely sweet, the sample
> smelled and tasted good and I'd hate to throw the whole thing down the
> drain. But I don't want to waste 2 months lagering a dissapointing
> batch either.
>
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated
You could try raising the temp to around 60F or so and rousing.
If that doesn't work, you can get a couple of packets of US-56 (dry) and
pitch at around 60-62F. The yeast will ferment fairly cleanly at this
temp and you should end up with something decent, if not exactly what
you were shooting for.
Next time, consider making a starter (I'd do at least a gallon for a
5-gallon batch, decanting the spent starter wort prior to pitching) and
pitching at or close to your ferment temp. I have never seen good
results from pitching in the 70s and dropping the temp. Either the yeast
crash out, or the resulting beer isn't particularly clean.
Hope that helps -- m
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
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Buy several copies today!
|
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Date: 07 Aug 2006 15:27:56
From: Jim
Subject: Re: Slow lager fermentation
|
The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty wrote on 8/7/2006 12:53 PM:
> Ranger Steve wrote:
>> I'm in the midst of my first lager, a Marzen. I pitched two vials of
>> White labs Oktoberfest/Marzen yeast (WLP820) at 70' then cooled to 50'
>> for primary fermentation. I had a little bit of Krauzen initially but
>> no airlock activity. Then after about 4 days I started getting about
>> 30 bubbles/minute and a krauzen rose about 1 inch.
>>
>> The initial gravity was 1.068. After 15 days I went to go do a
>> diacetyl rest. I sampled the wort and the gravity had only fallen to
>> 1.040. There is still some very slow airlock activity, maybe 3 or 4
>> bubbles per minute.
>>
>> So my question is: Is there any chance that this beer will ever
>> ferment completely? Is there anything I can do at this point to get
>> the yeast going again? Other than being extremely sweet, the sample
>> smelled and tasted good and I'd hate to throw the whole thing down the
>> drain. But I don't want to waste 2 months lagering a dissapointing
>> batch either.
>>
>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated
>
> You could try raising the temp to around 60F or so and rousing.
>
> If that doesn't work, you can get a couple of packets of US-56 (dry) and
> pitch at around 60-62F. The yeast will ferment fairly cleanly at this
> temp and you should end up with something decent, if not exactly what
> you were shooting for.
>
> Next time, consider making a starter (I'd do at least a gallon for a
> 5-gallon batch, decanting the spent starter wort prior to pitching) and
> pitching at or close to your ferment temp. I have never seen good
> results from pitching in the 70s and dropping the temp. Either the yeast
> crash out, or the resulting beer isn't particularly clean.
>
> Hope that helps -- m
Isnt a lager supposed to ferment slowly over several weeks? Dont get me
wrong, I am Mr Impatient, but I thought it could be 3+ weeks for a lager
to finish in the primary.
Jim
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Date: 07 Aug 2006 14:53:30
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: Slow lager fermentation
|
Jim wrote:
>
> Isnt a lager supposed to ferment slowly over several weeks? Dont get me
> wrong, I am Mr Impatient, but I thought it could be 3+ weeks for a lager
> to finish in the primary.
It depends on the gravity and temperature, but, no, this is not normally
the case with an adequate pitch, unless very low temps are used. 8-12
days is pretty typical for primary fermentation -- with two-weeks being
around the top end. Some lager breweries, though, ferment VERY cold,
especially at the start of the ferment -- and this can stretch things
out a good bit. By "very low temps" , I mean about as low as the yeast
can stand -- this can be as low as 42F for some yeast.
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!
|
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Date: 07 Aug 2006 12:40:11
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Slow lager fermentation
|
Jim wrote:
> Isnt a lager supposed to ferment slowly over several weeks? Dont get me
> wrong, I am Mr Impatient, but I thought it could be 3+ weeks for a lager
> to finish in the primary.
Yeah, at least for me that's not unusual.
-------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 07 Aug 2006 17:35:31
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Slow lager fermentation
|
On 7 Aug 2006 09:40:42 -0700, <polaski.steve@gmail.com > wrote:
> I'm in the midst of my first lager, a Marzen. I pitched two vials of
> White labs Oktoberfest/Marzen yeast (WLP820) at 70' then cooled to 50'
> for primary fermentation. I had a little bit of Krauzen initially but
> no airlock activity. Then after about 4 days I started getting about
> 30 bubbles/minute and a krauzen rose about 1 inch.
>
> The initial gravity was 1.068. After 15 days I went to go do a
> diacetyl rest. I sampled the wort and the gravity had only fallen to
> 1.040. There is still some very slow airlock activity, maybe 3 or 4
> bubbles per minute.
>
> So my question is: Is there any chance that this beer will ever
> ferment completely? Is there anything I can do at this point to get
> the yeast going again? Other than being extremely sweet, the sample
> smelled and tasted good and I'd hate to throw the whole thing down the
> drain. But I don't want to waste 2 months lagering a dissapointing
> batch either.
Even two vials of WL yeast is underpitching. The pitching rates are also
more critical on lagers than ales because of the low temps. I'd agree
with the other poster... let it warm up some and try rousing (stirring up
the yeast).
John.
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 01:52:40
From: Todd Carter
Subject: Re: Slow lager fermentation
|
Did you mash or extract?
I've had problems with this yeast the last two years after two years of
clean and dry fermentations. Last year after a half gallon starter,
here were the readings and actions:
(temp 55-58F)
9 days 1.038
20 days 1.030 - start diacetyl rest @ 65F
24 days 1.026
30 days 1.024 - added 1/2 gallon kraeusening batch with second tube 820,
1/2# amber DME, pinch of hops, 1/2 tsp yeast energizer + added 2 tsp
energizer directly to carboy
38 days 1.023 - added 3 tablets Beano with 1/2 cup boiled water (cooled)
46 days 1.017 - final
This year I'm at 1.020 after 2 weeks and a 1 gallon starter (twice
stepped from tube). I added the 3 Beanos straight to the carboy and had
a little activity after racking.
I'm going to try to keep my mash temps a little lower in the future.
Even though I do steps at 140F and 152 I wonder if I'm reading lower
than actual through my RIMS. Nothing seems to get as low as it used to.
I need to check the hydro again too.
Warm it up (65F until it rouses), make another starter (different
yeast?) and try Beano. Good luck.
Todd
Ranger Steve wrote:
> I'm in the midst of my first lager, a Marzen. I pitched two vials of
> White labs Oktoberfest/Marzen yeast (WLP820) at 70' then cooled to 50'
> for primary fermentation. I had a little bit of Krauzen initially but
> no airlock activity. Then after about 4 days I started getting about
> 30 bubbles/minute and a krauzen rose about 1 inch.
>
> The initial gravity was 1.068. After 15 days I went to go do a
> diacetyl rest. I sampled the wort and the gravity had only fallen to
> 1.040. There is still some very slow airlock activity, maybe 3 or 4
> bubbles per minute.
>
> So my question is: Is there any chance that this beer will ever
> ferment completely? Is there anything I can do at this point to get
> the yeast going again? Other than being extremely sweet, the sample
> smelled and tasted good and I'd hate to throw the whole thing down the
> drain. But I don't want to waste 2 months lagering a dissapointing
> batch either.
>
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated
>
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 07:54:57
From: Ranger Steve
Subject: Re: Slow lager fermentation
|
Todd Carter wrote:
> Did you mash or extract?
> I've had problems with this yeast the last two years after two years of
> clean and dry fermentations. Last year after a half gallon starter,
> here were the readings and actions:
> (temp 55-58F)
> 9 days 1.038
> 20 days 1.030 - start diacetyl rest @ 65F
> 24 days 1.026
> 30 days 1.024 - added 1/2 gallon kraeusening batch with second tube 820,
> 1/2# amber DME, pinch of hops, 1/2 tsp yeast energizer + added 2 tsp
> energizer directly to carboy
> 38 days 1.023 - added 3 tablets Beano with 1/2 cup boiled water (cooled)
> 46 days 1.017 - final
>
> This year I'm at 1.020 after 2 weeks and a 1 gallon starter (twice
> stepped from tube). I added the 3 Beanos straight to the carboy and had
> a little activity after racking.
>
> I'm going to try to keep my mash temps a little lower in the future.
> Even though I do steps at 140F and 152 I wonder if I'm reading lower
> than actual through my RIMS. Nothing seems to get as low as it used to.
> I need to check the hydro again too.
>
> Warm it up (65F until it rouses), make another starter (different
> yeast?) and try Beano. Good luck.
>
It was a partial mash. I used 7 pounds extract and mashed about 4
pounds of various malts at 170 for 1 hour and sparged for 45 minutes.
I ended up having to increase my batch size to 6 gallons as my
efficiency mashing was better than I expected and my inital gravity was
1.074. I added a extra gallon at that point to lower it to 1.068.
I did raise the temp to 60-65 a couple of days ago per some of the
other posts (by the way, thank you everyone for your input) and roused
the yeast. I've started to see some yeast activity but it's pretty
slow. I'm giving it some more time but I'm afraid this one may end up
being a $30 lesson learned about under-pitching.
By the way, what does beano do for beer? I've never heard of anyone
using it. I know it's some kind of fart-eating enzyme or something
but didn't know it had brewing applications.
Steve
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 17:15:29
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Slow lager fermentation
|
On 9 Aug 2006 07:54:57 -0700, <polaski.steve@gmail.com > wrote:
> It was a partial mash. I used 7 pounds extract and mashed about 4
> pounds of various malts at 170 for 1 hour and sparged for 45 minutes.
170 is a really high mash temp. Are you sure you weren't just steeping
them?
> By the way, what does beano do for beer? I've never heard of anyone
> using it. I know it's some kind of fart-eating enzyme or something
> but didn't know it had brewing applications.
It's an enzyme that breaks complex sugars down into simple ones. Some
people use it in brewing if their FG is too high because of unfermentable
sugars. Beano quite often ends up making the FG too low though, and
really drys out the beer. IMO, it's best left as an absolute last resort.
John.
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 10:18:39
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: Slow lager fermentation
|
Ranger Steve wrote:
>
> By the way, what does beano do for beer? I've never heard of anyone
> using it. I know it's some kind of fart-eating enzyme or something
> but didn't know it had brewing applications.
>
Beano can be used to break down more complex sugars into simpler,
fermentable ones. I'd only consider this if your problem is too many
complex sugars (mash temp higher than you expected). It shouldn't to you
any good if you just underpitched, shcked the yeast, etc.
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
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Buy several copies today!
|
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 17:43:22
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Slow lager fermentation
|
On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 10:18:39 -0500, <mikey666@666swampgas.666com > wrote:
> Ranger Steve wrote:
>>
>> By the way, what does beano do for beer? I've never heard of anyone
>> using it. I know it's some kind of fart-eating enzyme or something
>> but didn't know it had brewing applications.
>>
>
> Beano can be used to break down more complex sugars into simpler,
> fermentable ones. I'd only consider this if your problem is too many
> complex sugars (mash temp higher than you expected). It shouldn't to you
> any good if you just underpitched, shcked the yeast, etc.
Good adivce. IMO, beano probably gets used for too many things. For
instance, it's a common misconception that beano is used to fix a stuck
fermentation, which is not the case.
John.
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 12:11:03
From: David M. Taylor
Subject: Re: Slow lager fermentation
|
"John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" <spam@shagg.net > wrote in message
news:slrnedk7q8.c1a.spam@weizen.shagg.net...
>
> Good adivce. IMO, beano probably gets used for too many things. For
> instance, it's a common misconception that beano is used to fix a stuck
> fermentation, which is not the case.
I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're getting at, but I do think
there is some truth to that. I have used Beano to break down some John Bull
that quit at like 1.022, and in retrospect, I think it made things worse
rather than better. So, did it "fix" the stuck fermentation? Well, the
fermentation wasn't really stuck, it was done; and it didn't really fix the
problem. Sure, it got the fermentation going again, but then after I
bottled the stuff when I thought it was done fermenting, it kept on going
and going and going until the beer was dry as a bone and way overcarbonated.
I'm beginning to think that yes, perhaps Beano may have some applications in
brewing, but personally, I will be very cautious before ever using Beano
again, because it can easily get out of hand.
--
Dave
"Just a drink, a little drink, and I'll be feeling GOOooOOooOOooD!" --
Genesis, 1973-ish
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 17:23:43
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Slow lager fermentation
|
On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 12:11:03 -0500, <dmtaylor@SPAM.geocities.SUCKS.com > wrote:
> "John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" <spam@shagg.net> wrote in message
> news:slrnedk7q8.c1a.spam@weizen.shagg.net...
>>
>> Good adivce. IMO, beano probably gets used for too many things. For
>> instance, it's a common misconception that beano is used to fix a stuck
>> fermentation, which is not the case.
>
> I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're getting at, but I do think
> there is some truth to that. I have used Beano to break down some John Bull
> that quit at like 1.022, and in retrospect, I think it made things worse
> rather than better. So, did it "fix" the stuck fermentation? Well, the
> fermentation wasn't really stuck, it was done;
Exactly. Beano is used to lower the FG of a batch that is done, but
finished too high due to unfermentable sugars. That is *not* a stuck
fermentation though. A stuck fermentation is one where there are still
fermentable sugars present, but the yeast has stopped early. They have
similar appearances, but have completely different causes and solutions.
Using beano on an actual stuck fermentation would not be the right thing
to do. But I've seen people try it because they did not understand the
difference.
> and it didn't really fix the
> problem. Sure, it got the fermentation going again, but then after I
> bottled the stuff when I thought it was done fermenting, it kept on going
> and going and going until the beer was dry as a bone and way overcarbonated.
> I'm beginning to think that yes, perhaps Beano may have some applications in
> brewing, but personally, I will be very cautious before ever using Beano
> again, because it can easily get out of hand.
Yeah, that's the main problem with it. I don't use it at all, but I
usually recommend that if someone does want to try it, they only do so
as an absolute last resort (assuming that the situation they're in is even
one that beano will "fix").
John.
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 10:28:30
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Slow lager fermentation
|
John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> Yeah, that's the main problem with it. I don't use it at all, but I
> usually recommend that if someone does want to try it, they only do so
> as an absolute last resort (assuming that the situation they're in is even
> one that beano will "fix").
I've had reasonably good luck using Beano when I plan it into the recipe
in the first place to make a very dry, low carb beer. But when I've
used it to "fix" a fermentation, the cure has been worse than the
original problem!
----------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 17:35:15
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Slow lager fermentation
|
On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 10:28:30 -0700, <denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us > wrote:
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>
>> Yeah, that's the main problem with it. I don't use it at all, but I
>> usually recommend that if someone does want to try it, they only do so
>> as an absolute last resort (assuming that the situation they're in is even
>> one that beano will "fix").
>
> I've had reasonably good luck using Beano when I plan it into the recipe
> in the first place to make a very dry, low carb beer. But when I've
> used it to "fix" a fermentation, the cure has been worse than the
> original problem!
Yeah, it'd be tough to make a 1.060 dry low carb beer without it. ;)
Seriously though, how does it compare versus using simple sugars in the
recipe instead?
John.
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 10:57:39
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Slow lager fermentation
|
John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> Yeah, it'd be tough to make a 1.060 dry low carb beer without it. ;)
:)
> Seriously though, how does it compare versus using simple sugars in the
> recipe instead?
For one thing, it doesn't add fermentables. But it's been such a long
time since I've made a beer with it, I'd need to do another batch and
compare to give you anything meaningful.
---------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
|
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 18:45:01
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Slow lager fermentation
|
On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 10:57:39 -0700, <denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us > wrote:
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>
>> Yeah, it'd be tough to make a 1.060 dry low carb beer without it. ;)
>
>:)
>
>> Seriously though, how does it compare versus using simple sugars in the
>> recipe instead?
>
> For one thing, it doesn't add fermentables.
It adds them by turning the unfermentables into fermentables.
> But it's been such a long
> time since I've made a beer with it, I'd need to do another batch and
> compare to give you anything meaningful.
That's alright, I was just curious. My guess would be that an all malt
beer using Beano to dry it out might have more flavor to it than a partial
malt partial sugar beer. I'm not sure though since I've never tried it.
John.
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Date: 11 Aug 2006 11:55:03
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Slow lager fermentation
|
John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> That's alright, I was just curious. My guess would be that an all malt
> beer using Beano to dry it out might have more flavor to it than a partial
> malt partial sugar beer. I'm not sure though since I've never tried it.
The beers I've used it in have had either corn or rice as adjuncts.
---------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
|
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 22:40:11
From: Todd Carter
Subject: Re: Slow lager fermentation
|
As mentioned in other posts, Beano is just an enzyme for breaking down
complex sugars so the yeast can ferment them. With the same yeast, it
only dropped the gravity 6 points in my experiment and it tasted
normal/great. I wouldn't use it on a beer that I expect to finish
normally, but "too dry" won't happen here. What's to lose?
Possible Beano outcomes:
1) slight gravity drop - won't hurt your case
2) moderate gravity drop - won't hurt your case
3) the sky will fall - from the tone of other posts ;)
And/or if your gravity stays above 25-30 after 3 weeks, instead of
writing it off, try pitching a kraeusen with a different lager or even
ale yeast. Something about 820 just doesn't want to fully attenuate
without the right conditions.
Ranger Steve wrote:
> It was a partial mash. I used 7 pounds extract and mashed about 4
> pounds of various malts at 170 for 1 hour and sparged for 45 minutes.
> I ended up having to increase my batch size to 6 gallons as my
> efficiency mashing was better than I expected and my inital gravity was
> 1.074. I added a extra gallon at that point to lower it to 1.068.
>
> I did raise the temp to 60-65 a couple of days ago per some of the
> other posts (by the way, thank you everyone for your input) and roused
> the yeast. I've started to see some yeast activity but it's pretty
> slow. I'm giving it some more time but I'm afraid this one may end up
> being a $30 lesson learned about under-pitching.
>
> By the way, what does beano do for beer? I've never heard of anyone
> using it. I know it's some kind of fart-eating enzyme or something
> but didn't know it had brewing applications.
>
> Steve
>
|
| |
Date: 09 Aug 2006 11:27:58
From: Ranger Steve
Subject: Re: Slow lager fermentation
|
> 170 is a really high mash temp. Are you sure you weren't just steeping
> them?
You're right, I went back to my notes. It was a "mini-mash" at 160F
then sparged with 170F water. I'm not quite sure where the dividing
line between steeping and mashing is, but I sparged over a 45 minute
period with about 2 1/2 gallons of water through a false bottom
stainless steel screen in a bottling bucket. This seems more like a
mash than simply putting some grains in a bag and pulling them out at
160F. (I'm taking baby steps toward all-grain)
Steve
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 20:01:32
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Slow lager fermentation
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On 9 Aug 2006 11:27:58 -0700, <polaski.steve@gmail.com > wrote:
>
>> 170 is a really high mash temp. Are you sure you weren't just steeping
>> them?
>
> You're right, I went back to my notes. It was a "mini-mash" at 160F
> then sparged with 170F water. I'm not quite sure where the dividing
> line between steeping and mashing is, but I sparged over a 45 minute
> period with about 2 1/2 gallons of water through a false bottom
> stainless steel screen in a bottling bucket. This seems more like a
> mash than simply putting some grains in a bag and pulling them out at
> 160F. (I'm taking baby steps toward all-grain)
Mashing is when the grains contain starch and enzymes convert the starch
to sugar. Steeping is when the grains have already been converted before
you buy them, and all you do is soak the sugars out. Think of mashing as
a very specific kind of steep. There are lots of ways to steep that don't
count as mashing.
John.
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