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Date: 18 Sep 2006 15:27:36
From: Joshness
Subject: Shakespear Stout Clone?
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I really like this Rouge Ale, and would like to try making a clone,
possibly with a little less hopiness -- Does anyone have a Clone Recipe
they can post? ..oh and I havent gone all grain yet, someday :)
I found one recipe that mentions simply "half lb chocolate", but not
sure if it refers to bakers chocolate, cocoa powder, chocolate grain...
etc. (Im assuming bakers, as 1/2 lb of powder would be insane)
TIA
- Josh
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Date: 19 Sep 2006 00:09:11
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Shakespear Stout Clone?
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On 18 Sep 2006 15:27:36 -0700, <joshness@gmail.com > wrote:
> I really like this Rouge Ale, and would like to try making a clone,
> possibly with a little less hopiness -- Does anyone have a Clone Recipe
> they can post? ..oh and I havent gone all grain yet, someday :)
>
> I found one recipe that mentions simply "half lb chocolate", but not
> sure if it refers to bakers chocolate, cocoa powder, chocolate grain...
> etc. (Im assuming bakers, as 1/2 lb of powder would be insane)
I would guess it means bakers chocolate. I assume a recipe that called
for chocolate grain would specifically state that. However, there's no
telling what the author really meant.
John.
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Date: 19 Sep 2006 11:50:57
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Shakespear Stout Clone?
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> I would guess it means bakers chocolate. I assume a recipe that called
> for chocolate grain would specifically state that. However, there's no
> telling what the author really meant.
Definitely NOT for Shakespeare! I've mnade something pretty close to it
a couple times. I can't recall all the ingredients, but I do remember
it uses a buttload of crystal and the hops are all Cascade.
---------- >Denny
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Date: 18 Sep 2006 23:07:55
From: Scott Barron
Subject: Re: Shakespear Stout Clone?
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On 2006-09-18, Joshness <joshness@gmail.com > wrote:
> I really like this Rouge Ale, and would like to try making a clone,
> possibly with a little less hopiness -- Does anyone have a Clone Recipe
> they can post? ..oh and I havent gone all grain yet, someday :)
>
> I found one recipe that mentions simply "half lb chocolate", but not
> sure if it refers to bakers chocolate, cocoa powder, chocolate grain...
> etc. (Im assuming bakers, as 1/2 lb of powder would be insane)
>
> TIA
>
> - Josh
>
I'd reckon chocolate malt (grain). Check out
http://www.rogue.com/Beer%20Brochures/ShakespeareStout.pdf
-Scott
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Date: 23 Sep 2006 17:30:51
From: David Edge
Subject: Re: Shakespear Stout Clone?
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On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 23:07:55 GMT, Scott Barron <nntp@elitists.net >
wrote:
>
>I'd reckon chocolate malt (grain). Check out
>http://www.rogue.com/Beer%20Brochures/ShakespeareStout.pdf
Hmmmm. Well I checked out their chocolate stout brochure
http://www.rogue.com/Beer%20Brochures/ChocolateStout.pdf
dated November 05 and it claims it contains Beeston Malt. Now I have
attended the Beeston Beer Club for a few years and Beeston Maltings
was gone before I started. So I'd take anything you read there with a
pinch of salt. Or perhaps the key is to mature the malt for a few
years?
I was looking because I had my first American beer last night - Rogue
Chocolate Stout on draught at Burton Beer festival. To my taste the
"Natural Chocolate Flavor" was somewhat overdone and it would have
been an enjoyable beer with perhaps 20% of the amount. Nonethess some
people with respected palates thought it was wonderful. Chacun a son
gout, although in this case "Chacun a son goo" seems more appropriate.
It would be churlish to write off an entire continent's brewing on
that basis though; I'll try the Shakespeare if I get the chance.
Cheers
David Edge, Derby
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Date: 25 Sep 2006 09:52:31
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Shakespear Stout Clone?
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David Edge wrote:
> Hmmmm. Well I checked out their chocolate stout brochure
>
> http://www.rogue.com/Beer%20Brochures/ChocolateStout.pdf
>
> dated November 05 and it claims it contains Beeston Malt. Now I have
> attended the Beeston Beer Club for a few years and Beeston Maltings
> was gone before I started. So I'd take anything you read there with a
> pinch of salt. Or perhaps the key is to mature the malt for a few
> years?
>
> I was looking because I had my first American beer last night - Rogue
> Chocolate Stout on draught at Burton Beer festival. To my taste the
> "Natural Chocolate Flavor" was somewhat overdone and it would have
> been an enjoyable beer with perhaps 20% of the amount. Nonethess some
> people with respected palates thought it was wonderful. Chacun a son
> gout, although in this case "Chacun a son goo" seems more appropriate.
>
> It would be churlish to write off an entire continent's brewing on
> that basis though; I'll try the Shakespeare if I get the chance.
I'm quite a fan of Rogue beers, but my life would be no poorer if I
never tasted the chocolate stout again....
----------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 19 Sep 2006 06:43:30
From: OrganicVeggie
Subject: Re: Shakespear Stout Clone?
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Joshness wrote:
> I really like this Rouge Ale, and would like to try making a clone,
> possibly with a little less hopiness -- Does anyone have a Clone Recipe
> they can post? ..oh and I havent gone all grain yet, someday :)
The Sep/ 2003 issue of Zymurgy had a huge spread on Rogue, their
brewing practices and clone recipes for all of their major beers: Dead
Guy Ale, Shakespeare Stout, Brutal Bitter, Imperial IPA, Saint Rogue
Red, Younger's Special Bitter, Old Crustacean, Rogue Smoke, Oregon
Golden Ale, Hazelnut Brown Nectar and Mocha Porter.
Here's the recipe they listed for Shakespeare Stout on pg 45:
-----snip-----
5 gallons
Assumes: 70% efficiency, 5.5 gallons at end of boil
OG: 1.060 (15 P)
IBU: 69
All Grain Version
11.0 lb (5 kg) Great Western 2-row pale malt
0.5 lb (227 g) 120L crystal malt
0.5 lb (227 g) chocolate malt
0.5 lb (227 g) rolled oats
3.0 oz (85 g) roasted barley
Mash at 150F (65C) for 60 minutes. Sparge at 175F (79C) to collect 6.5
gallons of pre-boil wort.
Extract Plus Grains
Steep speciality malts, roasted barley and oats in 150F (65C) water for
20 minutes. Strain, add 7.5 lb (3.4 kg) light malt extract syrup, then
proceed with the one hour boil.
Boil
1.oz (28 g) Cascade pellet hops, 5% AA (90 min)
1.oz (28 g) Cascade pellet hops, 5% AA (60 min)
1.oz (28 g) Cascade pellet hops, 5% AA (30 min)
1.oz (28 g) Cascade pellet hops, 5% AA (knockout)
1 tsp (5 mL) Irish moss (20 min)
Wyeast Pacman or BrewTek California Pub Ale (CL-50) or equivalent
Boil 90 minutes with the additions shown above. Cool to 60F (16C) and
pitch yeast. Ferment at 60F (16C) for one week, then siphon into
secondary. Hold in secondary at 60F (16C) until fermentation is
complete, then package and condition.
-----snip-----
Hope this helps!
-Sean
---
I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it.
--- Groucho Marx
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Date: 19 Sep 2006 21:12:21
From: Andy McKellar
Subject: Re: Shakespear Stout Clone?
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OrganicVeggie wrote:
> Joshness wrote:
>
>>I really like this Rouge Ale, and would like to try making a clone,
>>possibly with a little less hopiness -- Does anyone have a Clone Recipe
>>they can post? ..oh and I havent gone all grain yet, someday :)
>
>
> The Sep/ 2003 issue of Zymurgy had a huge spread on Rogue, their
> brewing practices and clone recipes for all of their major beers: Dead
> Guy Ale, Shakespeare Stout, Brutal Bitter, Imperial IPA, Saint Rogue
> Red, Younger's Special Bitter, Old Crustacean, Rogue Smoke, Oregon
> Golden Ale, Hazelnut Brown Nectar and Mocha Porter.
>
> Here's the recipe they listed for Shakespeare Stout on pg 45:
>
> -----snip-----
> 5 gallons
> Assumes: 70% efficiency, 5.5 gallons at end of boil
> OG: 1.060 (15 P)
> IBU: 69
>
> All Grain Version
> 11.0 lb (5 kg) Great Western 2-row pale malt
> 0.5 lb (227 g) 120L crystal malt
> 0.5 lb (227 g) chocolate malt
> 0.5 lb (227 g) rolled oats
> 3.0 oz (85 g) roasted barley
>
> Mash at 150F (65C) for 60 minutes. Sparge at 175F (79C) to collect 6.5
> gallons of pre-boil wort.
>
> Extract Plus Grains
> Steep speciality malts, roasted barley and oats in 150F (65C) water for
> 20 minutes. Strain, add 7.5 lb (3.4 kg) light malt extract syrup, then
> proceed with the one hour boil.
>
> Boil
> 1.oz (28 g) Cascade pellet hops, 5% AA (90 min)
> 1.oz (28 g) Cascade pellet hops, 5% AA (60 min)
> 1.oz (28 g) Cascade pellet hops, 5% AA (30 min)
> 1.oz (28 g) Cascade pellet hops, 5% AA (knockout)
> 1 tsp (5 mL) Irish moss (20 min)
> Wyeast Pacman or BrewTek California Pub Ale (CL-50) or equivalent
>
> Boil 90 minutes with the additions shown above. Cool to 60F (16C) and
> pitch yeast. Ferment at 60F (16C) for one week, then siphon into
> secondary. Hold in secondary at 60F (16C) until fermentation is
> complete, then package and condition.
> -----snip-----
>
> Hope this helps!
>
> -Sean
>
> ---
> I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it.
> --- Groucho Marx
>
I recently tried this recipe (all grain version), with what I (and my
friends)
thought were pretty good results. I changed the grain bill slightly, in
that I
raised the chocolate malt and rolled oats to 0.75 lb. each and used 150L
crystal
rather than 120L; I also used Wyeast 1332 (Northwestern Ale) yeast, as I
didn't have any Pacman and don't even have a source for the CL-50. (I did
think that the alcohol was a little high for a good clone, but no one
complained...)
--
-- Andy McKellar
Dallas, TX
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Date: 20 Sep 2006 08:34:54
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Shakespear Stout Clone?
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Andy McKellar wrote:
> I also used Wyeast 1332 (Northwestern Ale) yeast, as I
> didn't have any Pacman and don't even have a source for the CL-50. (I did
> think that the alcohol was a little high for a good clone, but no one
> complained...)
You were correct to not use CL-50. I don't know where someone got the
idea they were similar. Even if Pacman originally came from CL-50,
they're nothing alike these days. And now Pacman is available through
Wyeast.
----------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 20 Sep 2006 13:37:42
From: Ryan Case
Subject: Re: Shakespear Stout Clone?
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OrganicVeggie wrote:
> Joshness wrote:
>> I really like this Rouge Ale, and would like to try making a clone,
>> possibly with a little less hopiness -- Does anyone have a Clone Recipe
>> they can post? ..oh and I havent gone all grain yet, someday :)
>
> The Sep/ 2003 issue of Zymurgy had a huge spread on Rogue, their
> brewing practices and clone recipes for all of their major beers: Dead
> Guy Ale, Shakespeare Stout, Brutal Bitter, Imperial IPA, Saint Rogue
> Red, Younger's Special Bitter, Old Crustacean, Rogue Smoke, Oregon
> Golden Ale, Hazelnut Brown Nectar and Mocha Porter.
>
Could you post the one for Hazelnut Brown Nectar? I bought a bottle
while at the Issaquah Rouge Saturday and a friend who helps brew asked
if we could make some after tasting it.
TIA,
Ryan
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Date: 19 Sep 2006 13:15:36
From: OrganicVeggie
Subject: Re: Shakespear Stout Clone?
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Denny Conn wrote:
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>
> > I would guess it means bakers chocolate. I assume a recipe that called
> > for chocolate grain would specifically state that. However, there's no
> > telling what the author really meant.
>
> Definitely NOT for Shakespeare! I've mnade something pretty close to it
> a couple times. I can't recall all the ingredients, but I do remember
> it uses a buttload of crystal and the hops are all Cascade.
I agree. When you taste it you can definitely tell that it's heavy on
the Cascade hops. And it doesn't taste like bakers chocolate. You'll
notice that the recipe from Zymurgy that I posted this morning called
for a 1/2 lb of chocolate ~malt~. I can't imagine putting in a 1/2 lb
of bakers chocolate! That's a heck of a lot of chocolate. Admittedly,
the Zymurgy recipe only called for a 1/2 lb of crystal... but it's
still probably somewhat similar to your recipe. :)
-Sean
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Date: 19 Sep 2006 20:45:29
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Shakespear Stout Clone?
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On 19 Sep 2006 13:15:36 -0700, <organicveggie@gmail.com > wrote:
> Denny Conn wrote:
>> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>>
>> > I would guess it means bakers chocolate. I assume a recipe that called
>> > for chocolate grain would specifically state that. However, there's no
>> > telling what the author really meant.
>>
>> Definitely NOT for Shakespeare! I've mnade something pretty close to it
>> a couple times. I can't recall all the ingredients, but I do remember
>> it uses a buttload of crystal and the hops are all Cascade.
>
> I agree. When you taste it you can definitely tell that it's heavy on
> the Cascade hops. And it doesn't taste like bakers chocolate. You'll
> notice that the recipe from Zymurgy that I posted this morning called
> for a 1/2 lb of chocolate ~malt~. I can't imagine putting in a 1/2 lb
> of bakers chocolate! That's a heck of a lot of chocolate. Admittedly,
> the Zymurgy recipe only called for a 1/2 lb of crystal... but it's
> still probably somewhat similar to your recipe. :)
After looking at Rogue's description (which specifically mentions chocolate
grain), I definitely agree that bakers chocolate is probably not the best
thing to use.
I wouldn't surprise me if the clone recipe the original poster was asking
about called for bakers chocolate though. You often see some really goofy
things in clone recipes. My response above wasn't meant to address the
best way to clone Shakespeare, I just meant that in general if you see
"chocolate" in a recipe they probably meant bakers chocolate. If you
see "chocolate grain" or "chocolate malt", then they probably meant the
grain.
John.
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Date: 21 Sep 2006 11:28:04
From: OrganicVeggie
Subject: Re: Shakespear Stout Clone?
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Ryan Case wrote:
> Could you post the one for Hazelnut Brown Nectar? I bought a bottle
> while at the Issaquah Rouge Saturday and a friend who helps brew asked
> if we could make some after tasting it.
Sorry for the delay. Somehow I originally missed your post. Anyway,
without any further ado, here's the recipe for the Rogue Hazelnut Brown
Nectar clone (pg 49 of Sep/ 2003 Zymurgy):
---snip---
5 gallons
Assumes: 70% efficiency, 5.5 gallons at end of boil
OG: 1.056 (14 P)
IBU: 33
All Grain Version
8.5 lb (3.86 kg) Great Western 2-row pale malt
0.75 lb (340 g) Hugh Baird Munich malt
4.0 oz (113 g) Hugh Baird brown malt
8.0 oz (227 g) 15L crystal malt
1.0 lb (0.45 kg) 75L crystal malt
8.0 oz (227 g) 120L crystal malt
2.0 oz (57 g) Beeston plae chocolate malt
0.75 oz (21 g) Hazelnut syrup in secondary
Mash at 150F (65C) for 60 minutes. Sparge at 175F (79C) to collect 6.5
gallons of pre-boil wort.
Extract Plus Grains
Steep speciality malts in 150F (65C) water for 20 minutes (omit
Munich). Strain, add 6.5 lb (3 kg) light malt extract syrup, then
proceed with the one hour boil.
Boil
0.5 oz (14 g) Perle pellet hops, 8% AA (90 min)
0.25 oz (7 g) Perle pellet hops, 8% AA (45 min)
0.25 oz (7 g) Perle pellet hops, 8% AA (30 min)
1.0 oz (28 g) Saaz pellet hops, 3% AA (knockout)
1 tsp (5 mL) Irish moss (20 min)
Wyeast Pacman or BrewTek California Pub Ale (CL-50) or equivalent
Boil 90 minutes with the additions shown above. Cool to 60F (16C) and
pitch yeast. Ferment at 60F (16C) for one week, then siphon into
secondary at 50-55F (10-13C) with hazelnut syrup until fermentation is
complete, then package and condition.
---snip---
Hope that helps.
-Sean
---
I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it.
--- Groucho Marx
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Date: 21 Sep 2006 11:46:30
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Shakespear Stout Clone?
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OrganicVeggie wrote:
> Sorry for the delay. Somehow I originally missed your post. Anyway,
> without any further ado, here's the recipe for the Rogue Hazelnut Brown
> Nectar clone (pg 49 of Sep/ 2003 Zymurgy):
The recipe for this originally came from a guy in our club. I have the
original if you'd like to see how it's changed...
------------ >Denny
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Date: 21 Sep 2006 15:52:44
From: Wayne
Subject: Re: Shakespear Stout Clone?
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Denny Conn wrote:
> OrganicVeggie wrote:
>
>
>> Sorry for the delay. Somehow I originally missed your post. Anyway,
>> without any further ado, here's the recipe for the Rogue Hazelnut Brown
>> Nectar clone (pg 49 of Sep/ 2003 Zymurgy):
>
> The recipe for this originally came from a guy in our club. I have the
> original if you'd like to see how it's changed...
>
> ------------>Denny
Don't know if OrganicVeggie is interested or not, but I would sure like
to see the recipe. Thanks.
Wayne
Bugeater Brewing Company
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Date: 22 Sep 2006 09:11:05
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Shakespear Stout Clone?
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OrganicVeggie wrote:
>
> Denny Conn wrote:
> > The recipe for this originally came from a guy in our club. I have the
> > original if you'd like to see how it's changed...
>
> Really? Wow, that's pretty cool. Yes, I would be interested.
I'll try to remember to post it on Mon., when I'm at the computer that
has it on it. BTW, the same guys homebrew RIS recipe is the basis of
Rogue's RIS. Including my Rye IPA, that's 3 Rogue beers that have come
from our club!
---------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 22 Sep 2006 07:16:15
From: OrganicVeggie
Subject: Re: Shakespear Stout Clone?
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Denny Conn wrote:
> The recipe for this originally came from a guy in our club. I have the
> original if you'd like to see how it's changed...
Really? Wow, that's pretty cool. Yes, I would be interested.
-Sean
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Date: 29 Sep 2006 13:46:35
From: OrganicVeggie
Subject: Re: Shakespear Stout Clone?
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Denny Conn wrote:
> OrganicVeggie wrote:
> > > Denny, did you ever get a chance to snag the recipe off the computer?
>
> Sorry, Sean, I spaced it! I'll try to remember on Mon.
Alright... I guess I can let it slide this time. *laugh*
-Sean
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Date: 29 Sep 2006 12:44:58
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Shakespear Stout Clone?
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OrganicVeggie wrote:
> Denny, did you ever get a chance to snag the recipe off the computer?
> I'd love to see it. :)
Sorry, Sean, I spaced it! I'll try to remember on Mon.
----------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 29 Sep 2006 11:54:32
From: OrganicVeggie
Subject: Re: Shakespear Stout Clone?
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Denny Conn wrote:
> I'll try to remember to post it on Mon., when I'm at the computer that
> has it on it. BTW, the same guys homebrew RIS recipe is the basis of
> Rogue's RIS. Including my Rye IPA, that's 3 Rogue beers that have come
> from our club!
Denny, did you ever get a chance to snag the recipe off the computer?
I'd love to see it. :)
-Sean
---
I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it."
--- Groucho Marx
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Date: 02 Oct 2006 10:37:02
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Shakespear Stout Clone?
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OrganicVeggie wrote:
> Alright... I guess I can let it slide this time. *laugh*
Here ya go, with notes by Chris Studach, the originiator. The recipe
was first brewed as below in 1992, then changed and rebrewed as the
commerative beer for the '93 NHC in Portland.
-------------- >Denny
>That looks like the original HB. I'm quite sure it changed for the AHA
>conf. You'll note some things about it that were "peculiar" to the '92
>timing.
>CS
> > Brewdate: November 11, 1992
> > 7lb 2-Row
> > 2lb Browned 2-Row*
> > 1/2lb 120L Crystal
> > 1/2lb 20L Crystal
> > 1/2tsp Gypsum
> > 1 1/2lb Danish Extract (Fermenthaus) 1/2oz CFJ-90 (11% Alpha) 1/4oz
> > Perles (7.6% Alpha) 1/4tsp B.Brite ( or 1tsp Irish Moss) at 20 min
> > 1338 Alt Yeast
> > 5/8 cup Dextrose to Prime
> > 1.25 Fl. Oz Hazel Nut Flavor Drops (Flavor Mate)
> >
> >
> > Modified step mash: 120F - 20 min.
> > 156F - 90 min.
> >
> > *375F - 2-Row Malt 40 min, In Oven
> > 12/22/92 - Rack to 2nd; Add Nut Flavor
> > 1/17/93 - Bottle
> > OG: 1.050
> > FG: 1.014
> > IBU:27
> > >Yeah, it was actually written into an article in Zymurgy way back
> > >when ('93 was the year it was the national commemorative homebrew).
> > >It's been so
> > long,
> > >I'd have to revisit it (old files).
> > >Also, as you well know, Rogue's version has been "Rogueized" by
> > >John over the years. I believe I
> > still
> > >have the original recipe for that, too.
> > >I'll see what I can come up with.
> > >CS
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 03 Oct 2006 06:54:22
From: OrganicVeggie
Subject: Re: Shakespear Stout Clone?
|
Denny Conn wrote:
> Here ya go, with notes by Chris Studach, the originiator. The recipe
> was first brewed as below in 1992, then changed and rebrewed as the
> commerative beer for the '93 NHC in Portland.
Sweet! Thank you very much. I also stumbled upon a post you made to a
B3 forum in 2005 regarding the Hazelnut Brown Nectar recipe. You
explained that CFJ-90 is really Centennial and that you suspected the
"Danish Extract" listed in the recipe was probably Laaglander.
http://qurl.com/n3zzy
Thanks again!
-Sean
---
I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it.
--- Groucho Marx
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