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Date: 05 Nov 2006 09:28:50
From: HiRoller
Subject: Saflager S-23
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I brewed a pilsner yesterday but my starter (from a liquid yeast)
doesn't seem to be getting any traction, so I haven't pitched it yet.
I've got some S-23 around but don't want the documented "fruity" notes
in my pilser. When I read the writeup on S-23 in the Northern Brewer
catalog it said the following:
Saflager S-23
The bottom fermenting yeast is widely used by Western European
commercial breweries. This yeast develops the best of its fruity and
estery lager notes when fermented at low temperatures (10=B0C-14=B0C) yet
producing very good lager and pilsner beers at higher temperatures
(16=B0C-20=B0C). Pitching rate: 80 g/hl to 120g/hl.
Are they saying that fermenting warmer results in lower fruity and
estery lager notes? Or that it still works at higher temperatures if
you can't keep the wort cold enough? I've never heard of a yeast that
has lower ester production at higher temperatures....
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Date: 05 Nov 2006 19:31:23
From: HiRoller
Subject: Re: Saflager S-23
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"I pitched at low tempertaure (<12=B0C) and let it warm to about 17=B0C,
dropping it again when I almost reached FG."
Sounds like everything about this yeast is backwards... A reverse
diacetyl rest?
LOL
Fred
Steve/Aus wrote:
> "HiRoller" <fdunayer@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1162747730.156848.223680@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I brewed a pilsner yesterday but my starter (from a liquid yeast)
> doesn't seem to be getting any traction, so I haven't pitched it yet.
> I've got some S-23 around but don't want the documented "fruity" notes
> in my pilser. When I read the writeup on S-23 in the Northern Brewer
> catalog it said the following:
>
> Saflager S-23
> The bottom fermenting yeast is widely used by Western European
> commercial breweries. This yeast develops the best of its fruity and
> estery lager notes when fermented at low temperatures (10=B0C-14=B0C) yet
> producing very good lager and pilsner beers at higher temperatures
> (16=B0C-20=B0C). Pitching rate: 80 g/hl to 120g/hl.
>
>
> Are they saying that fermenting warmer results in lower fruity and
> estery lager notes? Or that it still works at higher temperatures if
> you can't keep the wort cold enough? I've never heard of a yeast that
> has lower ester production at higher temperatures....
>
> I had the same reservations when I read about this as well. Nevertheless,=
I
> was assured by Denny Conn that this information is indeed correct.
> I did end up using S-23 on a trial. I pitched at low tempertaure (<12=B0C=
) and
> let it warm to about 17=B0C, dropping it again when I almost reached FG.
> The result is a beer that is not fruity, and has a clean finish. A very g=
ood
> pilsner in actual fact.
> Steve W (in Aus)
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Date: 05 Nov 2006 22:56:20
From: Steve/Aus
Subject: Re: Saflager S-23
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"HiRoller" <fdunayer@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1162747730.156848.223680@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I brewed a pilsner yesterday but my starter (from a liquid yeast)
doesn't seem to be getting any traction, so I haven't pitched it yet.
I've got some S-23 around but don't want the documented "fruity" notes
in my pilser. When I read the writeup on S-23 in the Northern Brewer
catalog it said the following:
Saflager S-23
The bottom fermenting yeast is widely used by Western European
commercial breweries. This yeast develops the best of its fruity and
estery lager notes when fermented at low temperatures (10°C-14°C) yet
producing very good lager and pilsner beers at higher temperatures
(16°C-20°C). Pitching rate: 80 g/hl to 120g/hl.
Are they saying that fermenting warmer results in lower fruity and
estery lager notes? Or that it still works at higher temperatures if
you can't keep the wort cold enough? I've never heard of a yeast that
has lower ester production at higher temperatures....
I had the same reservations when I read about this as well. Nevertheless, I
was assured by Denny Conn that this information is indeed correct.
I did end up using S-23 on a trial. I pitched at low tempertaure (<12°C) and
let it warm to about 17°C, dropping it again when I almost reached FG.
The result is a beer that is not fruity, and has a clean finish. A very good
pilsner in actual fact.
Steve W (in Aus)
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Date: 08 Nov 2006 07:49:39
From: JS
Subject: Re: Saflager S-23
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>
>I had the same reservations when I read about this as well. Nevertheless, I
>was assured by Denny Conn that this information is indeed correct.
>I did end up using S-23 on a trial. I pitched at low tempertaure (<12°C) and
>let it warm to about 17°C, dropping it again when I almost reached FG.
>The result is a beer that is not fruity, and has a clean finish. A very good
>pilsner in actual fact.
>Steve W (in Aus)
>
The only thing I didn't catch is whether or not lagering is advisable
with this yeast, and at what temp/time?
John S.
--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
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Date: 06 Nov 2006 18:43:10
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Saflager S-23
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On 5 Nov 2006 09:28:50 -0800, <fdunayer@gmail.com > wrote:
> I brewed a pilsner yesterday but my starter (from a liquid yeast)
> doesn't seem to be getting any traction, so I haven't pitched it yet.
What makes you think your starter isn't ready?
> Saflager S-23
> The bottom fermenting yeast is widely used by Western European
> commercial breweries. This yeast develops the best of its fruity and
> estery lager notes when fermented at low temperatures (10°C-14°C) yet
> producing very good lager and pilsner beers at higher temperatures
> (16°C-20°C). Pitching rate: 80 g/hl to 120g/hl.
>
> Are they saying that fermenting warmer results in lower fruity and
> estery lager notes? Or that it still works at higher temperatures if
> you can't keep the wort cold enough? I've never heard of a yeast that
> has lower ester production at higher temperatures....
Yeah, that does sound confusing. I'm guessing it's just worded funny and
when they say "best of it's fruity and estery lager notes", they mean *less*.
IOW, the "best" ester in a lager is as little as possible.
John.
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Date: 06 Nov 2006 10:47:12
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Saflager S-23
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> Yeah, that does sound confusing. I'm guessing it's just worded funny and
> when they say "best of it's fruity and estery lager notes", they mean *less*.
As confusing as it is, it means what it says. S-23 actually produces
fewer esters at higher temps, as counterintuitive as it is. But no
matter what, the yeast STILL sucks, IMO.
---------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 06 Nov 2006 19:38:02
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Saflager S-23
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On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 10:47:12 -0800, <denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us > wrote:
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>
>> Yeah, that does sound confusing. I'm guessing it's just worded funny and
>> when they say "best of it's fruity and estery lager notes", they mean *less*.
>
> As confusing as it is, it means what it says. S-23 actually produces
> fewer esters at higher temps, as counterintuitive as it is. But no
> matter what, the yeast STILL sucks, IMO.
Wow, that's really weird. Sounds counter-productive to have that behavior
in a lager yeast.
John.
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Date: 06 Nov 2006 11:58:34
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Saflager S-23
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> Wow, that's really weird. Sounds counter-productive to have that behavior
> in a lager yeast.
You're tellin' me! I only discovered it AFTER I'd used it at 48F,
making the most disgusting beer I ever brewed. It's the one I sent to
John Palmer because I couldn't believe how bad it was. I think he even
refers to it in the 3rd edition of his book!
---------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 06 Nov 2006 20:21:23
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Saflager S-23
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On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 11:58:34 -0800, <denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us > wrote:
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>
>> Wow, that's really weird. Sounds counter-productive to have that behavior
>> in a lager yeast.
>
> You're tellin' me! I only discovered it AFTER I'd used it at 48F,
> making the most disgusting beer I ever brewed. It's the one I sent to
> John Palmer because I couldn't believe how bad it was. I think he even
> refers to it in the 3rd edition of his book!
The infamous "Bartles and Jaymes Passion fruit wine cooler" beer? ;)
John.
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Date: 06 Nov 2006 12:27:26
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Saflager S-23
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> The infamous "Bartles and Jaymes Passion fruit wine cooler" beer? ;)
That be the one...;)
--------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 06 Nov 2006 23:22:47
From: Steve/Aus
Subject: Re: Saflager S-23
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"Denny Conn" <denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us > wrote in message
news:454F9AAE.1F3D231F@ci.eugene.or.us...
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>
>> The infamous "Bartles and Jaymes Passion fruit wine cooler" beer? ;)
>
> That be the one...;)
>
> --------->Denny
>
> --
> Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
Maybe you should try it again and use it correctly this time. If it is used
by many commercial breweries, it can't be that bad. In any case my
expierence with it has been quite rewarding.
Steve W (in Aus)
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Date: 08 Nov 2006 08:43:54
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Saflager S-23
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Steve/Aus wrote:
> Maybe you should try it again and use it correctly this time. If it is used
> by many commercial breweries, it can't be that bad. In any case my
> expierence with it has been quite rewarding.
With so many truly grreat lager yeasts available, I just can't see
wasting the time, energy, or ingredients to see if I have better luck.
I'm just glad others do.
-------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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