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Date: 12 Jul 2006 21:42:41
From: Jram
Subject: Rainwater
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What are the groups thoughts on brewing with rainwater. The pH of the water
I have collected looks to be around 5 which strikes me as a good mash pH.
What would rainwater be like to use for the liquor? I would think it would
be too soft for some styles but don't know enough about it. We have more
than enough rain in northeast Ohio these days and I hate to waste it!
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Date: 12 Jul 2006 21:57:39
From: Lefty Skywalker
Subject: Re: Rainwater
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Jram wrote:
> What are the groups thoughts on brewing with rainwater. The pH of the water
> I have collected looks to be around 5 which strikes me as a good mash pH.
> What would rainwater be like to use for the liquor? I would think it would
> be too soft for some styles but don't know enough about it. We have more
> than enough rain in northeast Ohio these days and I hate to waste it!
Pipe it over the Divide, we badly need it.
--
Daniel O. Miller
"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the
fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true
science. Whosoever does not know it and can no longer marvel, is as good
as dead, and his eyes are dimmed." - Albert Einstein
WWYD? (-o-) <* > Genesis 49:17
Real email address: darth dot lefty at golf mike able india lima.
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Date: 12 Jul 2006 22:37:24
From: Dan Logcher
Subject: Re: Rainwater
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Jram wrote:
> What are the groups thoughts on brewing with rainwater. The pH of the water
> I have collected looks to be around 5 which strikes me as a good mash pH.
> What would rainwater be like to use for the liquor? I would think it would
> be too soft for some styles but don't know enough about it. We have more
> than enough rain in northeast Ohio these days and I hate to waste it!
Most houses on Bermuda are equipped to catch rainwater for drinking.
Anyone from Bermuda here? How's your beer?
--
Dan
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Date: 13 Jul 2006 02:02:10
From: Dick Adams
Subject: Re: Rainwater
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Jram <jhramsay@adelphia.net > wrote:
> What are the groups thoughts on brewing with rainwater. The pH
> of the water I have collected looks to be around 5 which strikes
> me as a good mash pH. What would rainwater be like to use for
> the liquor? I would think it would be too soft for some styles
> but don't know enough about it. We have more than enough rain
> in northeast Ohio these days and I hate to waste it!
If it's not acid rain with industrial chemicals, go for it.
Dick
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Date: 13 Jul 2006 08:02:45
From:
Subject: Re: Rainwater
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If your motivation is conservationism, you could always use the
rainwater for cleaning equipment.
I've always thought this part of the process was pretty wasteful.
-Nick
Jram wrote:
> What are the groups thoughts on brewing with rainwater. The pH of the water
> I have collected looks to be around 5 which strikes me as a good mash pH.
> What would rainwater be like to use for the liquor? I would think it would
> be too soft for some styles but don't know enough about it. We have more
> than enough rain in northeast Ohio these days and I hate to waste it!
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Date: 13 Jul 2006 09:03:33
From: Thomas T. Veldhouse
Subject: Re: Rainwater
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Jram <jhramsay@adelphia.net > wrote:
> What are the groups thoughts on brewing with rainwater. The pH of the water
> I have collected looks to be around 5 which strikes me as a good mash pH.
> What would rainwater be like to use for the liquor? I would think it would
> be too soft for some styles but don't know enough about it. We have more
> than enough rain in northeast Ohio these days and I hate to waste it!
Rain water is notoriously dusty, and sometimes has significant sulfuric acid
in it [known as acid rain]. Frankly, I am surprised that your rain water is
showing a pH of around 5 ... that is bad news.
As far as brewing with it. If you don't mind the dust, pollen and pollutants
in rain water, then you should be fine. I would definitely let it settle out
and take the water on top. As far as the pH of rain water goes, you shouldn't
worry about it for your mash in the sense that your grains will create
phosphoric acid and reduce the pH to the proper level as long as you have
enough calcium in your water [you will almost certainly have to add it as
calcium carbonate, calcium chloride or gypsum]. The mineral composition of
rain water should be pretty low, so I would consider it distilled for brewing
purposes and add minerals as needed to match whatever water profile you want
for the beer that you are brewing.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
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Date: 13 Jul 2006 04:30:05
From: MarkMc
Subject: Re: Rainwater
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In addition to the potability of the water, ph 5 is probably too low
for mashing. Although it's the amount of alkalinity that the water has
that counts for mashing, the water pH is largely irrelevant.
The mash pH needs to hit somewhere around 5.3. Malt will normally
lower pH by the phosphates in the malt reacting with calcium in the
water to produce calcium phosphate.
You may need to treat the water with a variety of salts, including
calcium and adjust the alkalinity in the mash with gypsum - calcium
sulphate, or with calcium chloride.
I guess what I'm saying here is that assuming the water is of drinkable
quality, just treat it like RO or distilled water - you'll probably
want to mix it with municipal water to ensure that nutrients are there
etc.
Regards,
Mark
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Date: 13 Jul 2006 08:32:50
From: Jram
Subject: Re: Rainwater
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Thanks Mark. This was the information I was looking for. The pH of 5 is an
estimate after using a pH strip. The color key on my test strips only
indicates whole number increments so that while it falls between 5 and 6 it
is too course a scale to be any more accurate. I was concerned about
minerals and nutrients for use in the liquor and it seems I am right to be.
I like the mixing idea. We have well water out here and even after it is
filtered there is still a fair amount of iron in the water. I may try
mixing and see what I come up with. Thanks to everyone for weighing in.
"MarkMc" <mmcnospam@yahoo.co.uk > wrote in message
news:1152790205.329076.315260@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> In addition to the potability of the water, ph 5 is probably too low
> for mashing. Although it's the amount of alkalinity that the water has
> that counts for mashing, the water pH is largely irrelevant.
>
> The mash pH needs to hit somewhere around 5.3. Malt will normally
> lower pH by the phosphates in the malt reacting with calcium in the
> water to produce calcium phosphate.
>
> You may need to treat the water with a variety of salts, including
> calcium and adjust the alkalinity in the mash with gypsum - calcium
> sulphate, or with calcium chloride.
>
> I guess what I'm saying here is that assuming the water is of drinkable
> quality, just treat it like RO or distilled water - you'll probably
> want to mix it with municipal water to ensure that nutrients are there
> etc.
>
> Regards,
> Mark
>
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Date: 13 Jul 2006 09:07:52
From: Thomas T. Veldhouse
Subject: Re: Rainwater
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Jram <jhramsay@adelphia.net > wrote:
> Thanks Mark. This was the information I was looking for. The pH of 5 is an
> estimate after using a pH strip. The color key on my test strips only
> indicates whole number increments so that while it falls between 5 and 6 it
> is too course a scale to be any more accurate. I was concerned about
> minerals and nutrients for use in the liquor and it seems I am right to be.
> I like the mixing idea. We have well water out here and even after it is
> filtered there is still a fair amount of iron in the water. I may try
> mixing and see what I come up with. Thanks to everyone for weighing in.
>
You do NOT want iron in your brewing water. Small amounts affect your beer.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
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Date: 14 Jul 2006 08:34:16
From: Jram
Subject: Re: Rainwater
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What sort of problems does iron cause? Flavor? Yeast attenuation? Head
retention? I'd rather know up front than learn it with an experiment.
"Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:3MydnXteoMglzivZnZ2dnUVZ_tSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
> Jram <jhramsay@adelphia.net> wrote:
> > Thanks Mark. This was the information I was looking for. The pH of 5
is an
> > estimate after using a pH strip. The color key on my test strips only
> > indicates whole number increments so that while it falls between 5 and 6
it
> > is too course a scale to be any more accurate. I was concerned about
> > minerals and nutrients for use in the liquor and it seems I am right to
be.
> > I like the mixing idea. We have well water out here and even after it
is
> > filtered there is still a fair amount of iron in the water. I may try
> > mixing and see what I come up with. Thanks to everyone for weighing in.
> >
>
> You do NOT want iron in your brewing water. Small amounts affect your
beer.
>
> --
> Thomas T. Veldhouse
> Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
>
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Date: 14 Jul 2006 07:38:47
From: Thomas T. Veldhouse
Subject: Re: Rainwater
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Jram <jhramsay@adelphia.net > wrote:
> What sort of problems does iron cause? Flavor? Yeast attenuation? Head
> retention? I'd rather know up front than learn it with an experiment.
>
You might find Ray Daniels page on this interesting:
http://www.allaboutbeer.com/homebrew/water3.html
"Fe: Iron. Contributes metallic, blood-like or inky flavor. Levels should be
less than 0.3 ppm and most public treatment facilities achieve this goal."
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
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Date: 15 Jul 2006 09:22:10
From: Jram
Subject: Re: Rainwater
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Mmmmmmm Blood Beer. Is that a BJCP style?
Thanks for the info. I think I'll stick to bottled water...
"Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:yNCdnUg1RtHKDSrZnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
> Jram <jhramsay@adelphia.net> wrote:
> > What sort of problems does iron cause? Flavor? Yeast attenuation? Head
> > retention? I'd rather know up front than learn it with an experiment.
> >
>
> You might find Ray Daniels page on this interesting:
>
> http://www.allaboutbeer.com/homebrew/water3.html
>
> "Fe: Iron. Contributes metallic, blood-like or inky flavor. Levels should
be
> less than 0.3 ppm and most public treatment facilities achieve this goal."
>
> --
> Thomas T. Veldhouse
> Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
>
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Date: 13 Jul 2006 08:35:05
From: Jram
Subject: Re: Rainwater
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"too course a scale"
Of course I meant to spell it coarse...
"Jram" <jhramsay@adelphia.net > wrote in message
news:E4udneH_Y_EvoCvZnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d@adelphia.com...
> Thanks Mark. This was the information I was looking for. The pH of 5 is
an
> estimate after using a pH strip. The color key on my test strips only
> indicates whole number increments so that while it falls between 5 and 6
it
> is too course a scale to be any more accurate. I was concerned about
> minerals and nutrients for use in the liquor and it seems I am right to
be.
> I like the mixing idea. We have well water out here and even after it is
> filtered there is still a fair amount of iron in the water. I may try
> mixing and see what I come up with. Thanks to everyone for weighing in.
>
> "MarkMc" <mmcnospam@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1152790205.329076.315260@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> > In addition to the potability of the water, ph 5 is probably too low
> > for mashing. Although it's the amount of alkalinity that the water has
> > that counts for mashing, the water pH is largely irrelevant.
> >
> > The mash pH needs to hit somewhere around 5.3. Malt will normally
> > lower pH by the phosphates in the malt reacting with calcium in the
> > water to produce calcium phosphate.
> >
> > You may need to treat the water with a variety of salts, including
> > calcium and adjust the alkalinity in the mash with gypsum - calcium
> > sulphate, or with calcium chloride.
> >
> > I guess what I'm saying here is that assuming the water is of drinkable
> > quality, just treat it like RO or distilled water - you'll probably
> > want to mix it with municipal water to ensure that nutrients are there
> > etc.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Mark
> >
>
>
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Date: 13 Jul 2006 05:26:41
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Rainwater
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On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 21:42:41 -0400, <jhramsay@adelphia.net > wrote:
> What are the groups thoughts on brewing with rainwater. The pH of the water
> I have collected looks to be around 5 which strikes me as a good mash pH.
> What would rainwater be like to use for the liquor? I would think it would
> be too soft for some styles but don't know enough about it. We have more
> than enough rain in northeast Ohio these days and I hate to waste it!
It's been discussed on here in the past. IIRC, the biggest issue is that
getting clean rainwater is not as easy as it sounds.
John.
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Date: 13 Jul 2006 06:17:39
From: Steve/Aus
Subject: Re: Rainwater
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"John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" <spam@shagg.net > wrote in message
news:slrnebbmgl.5t5.spam@weizen.shagg.net...
> On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 21:42:41 -0400, <jhramsay@adelphia.net> wrote:
>> What are the groups thoughts on brewing with rainwater. The pH of the
>> water
>> I have collected looks to be around 5 which strikes me as a good mash pH.
>> What would rainwater be like to use for the liquor? I would think it
>> would
>> be too soft for some styles but don't know enough about it. We have more
>> than enough rain in northeast Ohio these days and I hate to waste it!
>
> It's been discussed on here in the past. IIRC, the biggest issue is that
> getting clean rainwater is not as easy as it sounds.
>
>
> John.
I went a micro last W/E (mini-micro actually, only brews 1000L batches) and
all his beers are brewed with rainwater collected from the corrugated iron
roof of the pub. Fantastic beers.
Also, as far as I understand it, the municipal water supply started out as
rainwater.
Steve W (in Aus)
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