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Date: 09 Sep 2006 07:58:08
From: JoeyB
Subject: Promash Grain Data Online?
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Hi All,
Does anyone know of a full database of grains by manufacturer that
could be added to Promash? Is this possible? Feasible? I do my promash
recipe or I get one. It calls for the nebulus 'Pale Malt (two row)'
American malt. I go to the store and I get Dingmann's Pale Ale malt.
How do you all understand what the differences are? I can go to the
Dingmanns site and get the specifics and add them to Promash. Is this
what you all do? Add Dingmann's by hand to Promash? It would seem
there might be a file out there somewhere with all grains in it by
manufacturer. Or, do they change too much year by year to do such a
thing?
Thanks in advance,
JoeyB
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Date: 11 Sep 2006 16:01:39
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Promash Grain Data Online?
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On 9 Sep 2006 07:58:08 -0700, <joseph.burgel@gm.com > wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Does anyone know of a full database of grains by manufacturer that
> could be added to Promash? Is this possible? Feasible? I do my promash
> recipe or I get one. It calls for the nebulus 'Pale Malt (two row)'
> American malt. I go to the store and I get Dingmann's Pale Ale malt.
> How do you all understand what the differences are? I can go to the
> Dingmanns site and get the specifics and add them to Promash. Is this
> what you all do? Add Dingmann's by hand to Promash? It would seem
> there might be a file out there somewhere with all grains in it by
> manufacturer. Or, do they change too much year by year to do such a
> thing?
They change year by year (crop by crop). Promash will probably be close
enough unless you're really picky. If you are that picky, then you'll want
the analysis for your specific crop of malt anyway, so a general database
probably won't help much unless they're compiling all of the crop specific
data every year. I have never heard of anybody doing that before.
John.
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Date: 14 Sep 2006 04:06:55
From: JoeyB
Subject: Re: Promash Grain Data Online?
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
Thanks John. The more I think about it, maybe my issue is the origin vs
the manufacturer. Promash distinguishes malts by origin. For example,
there's three different pale ale two row malts in Promash. One from
America, Belgium and Britian. So say according to Promash, my beer
calls for an American two row. I go to the brew store and they carry
Briess malt (American company). Should I assume that (in general) the
Briess two row malt has close to the same specs the Promash indicates
for an American two row ? In short, can I map a company's origin to a
particular grain profile? Or, is the variety of the grain from a
certain country? It is safe to assume Briess always only carries an
American Two Row Pale Ale malt and never a British Two Row Pale Ale
Malt? This, because they are an American company? If this is the case,
does anyone have a quick list of company countries or origin ? (ex:
Dingmans ?, Briess (American I think), Muntons ?, etc.)
On another note, wouldn't an identical grain from two maltsters have a
different taste? The parameters in Promash are trying to capture only
the amount of fermentable sugar that is achievable from a given grain
right? Bottom line, my guess is that I couldn't count on a Promash
recipe to repeat the same taste of a beer year over year given the
parameters that it records. Not a bash on Promash. Nothing out there
could do this without a more comprehensive year by year database of the
malt profile that included such things as manufacturer, variety, where
it grew, fermenatable and unfermentable sugars, diastatic, etc, etc.
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Date: 14 Sep 2006 15:29:18
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Promash Grain Data Online?
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On 14 Sep 2006 04:06:55 -0700, <joseph.burgel@gm.com > wrote:
> Thanks John. The more I think about it, maybe my issue is the origin vs
> the manufacturer. Promash distinguishes malts by origin. For example,
> there's three different pale ale two row malts in Promash. One from
> America, Belgium and Britian. So say according to Promash, my beer
> calls for an American two row. I go to the brew store and they carry
> Briess malt (American company). Should I assume that (in general) the
> Briess two row malt has close to the same specs the Promash indicates
> for an American two row ?
It depends on how picky you are. It's probably going to be close, but
the exact specs will vary. Promash is just giving you a general guideline.
For most brewers that is probably close enough.
> In short, can I map a company's origin to a
> particular grain profile? Or, is the variety of the grain from a
> certain country?
Again, it really depends on how picky you are. Some people will try to use
grain specifically from the country that the particular beer style
originated from. Personally, I don't get that hung up on it and just
buy base grains in bulk and use the same base grain for all my recipes.
> It is safe to assume Briess always only carries an
> American Two Row Pale Ale malt and never a British Two Row Pale Ale
> Malt? This, because they are an American company? If this is the case,
> does anyone have a quick list of company countries or origin ? (ex:
> Dingmans ?, Briess (American I think), Muntons ?, etc.)
I think this is going to be true, I don't have a list of company/country
though. I'm sure others on here will know that information. You could
probably figure it out with some googling and find the websites for each
of the maltsters (most of them have one).
> On another note, wouldn't an identical grain from two maltsters have a
> different taste?
Depends on how picky you are (there's a theme here). Technically there
probably are differences between the crops of two American maltsters for
the same year. However, it would probably be *really* difficult, if not
impossible, to tell the difference by drinking the beer. IOW, I would be
really impressed if someone could tell you what maltster the grain came
from just by drinking the beer (assuming we're comparing the same type of
grains).
> The parameters in Promash are trying to capture only
> the amount of fermentable sugar that is achievable from a given grain
> right?
Correct. The Promash parameter is trying to tell you what your OG will
be based on a certain quantity of the grain at a certain efficiency. It
doesn't really predict what the flavor profile would be other than in a
very general sense. IE British 2-row may have a slightly different
character than American 2-row.
> Bottom line, my guess is that I couldn't count on a Promash
> recipe to repeat the same taste of a beer year over year given the
> parameters that it records.
The exact same identical taste? Probably not. Then again, it's probably
extremely difficult for a homebrewer to make the same recipe with even the
same ingredients twice in a row and get the exact same identical taste. In
most cases though, it's probably going to be close enough that you'll have
a hard time telling the difference.
> Not a bash on Promash. Nothing out there
> could do this without a more comprehensive year by year database of the
> malt profile that included such things as manufacturer, variety, where
> it grew, fermenatable and unfermentable sugars, diastatic, etc, etc.
Even beyond that data, you start to get into things like the flavor of the
grain, which gets into a whole other level of details.
John.
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Date: 19 Sep 2006 16:24:26
From: JoeyB
Subject: Re: Promash Grain Data Online?
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Probably getting too carried away with this. Thanks for your comments.
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