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Date: 04 Jul 2006 13:47:11
From: Ryan
Subject: Pils problems with Wyeast activator
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So I thought I would brew during the lazy part of my July 4th holiday.
I forgot to smack my activator (wyeast Czech Pils) pack until 4 hours
before I would need it. In the past, all of my wyeast packs have
expanded to full expansion within 3-4 hours, so I thought this was a
reasonable risk. However, now I am 1 hour past the time I should have
pitched the yeast and It hasn't expanded much at all. So, which of
these options is the best choice? Do I pitch the contents of the pack
and hope for the best? Or, should I leave my wort sitting and see if
it magically expands over the next 12 hours.... Or, do I scrap my
Pilsner plans and pitch some muntons dry yeast that I have on hand and
hope for something drinkable. Any suggestions.
Ryan
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Date: 04 Jul 2006 16:37:50
From: Wayne
Subject: Re: Pils problems with Wyeast activator
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Ryan wrote:
> So I thought I would brew during the lazy part of my July 4th holiday.
> I forgot to smack my activator (wyeast Czech Pils) pack until 4 hours
> before I would need it. In the past, all of my wyeast packs have
> expanded to full expansion within 3-4 hours, so I thought this was a
> reasonable risk. However, now I am 1 hour past the time I should have
> pitched the yeast and It hasn't expanded much at all. So, which of
> these options is the best choice? Do I pitch the contents of the pack
> and hope for the best? Or, should I leave my wort sitting and see if
> it magically expands over the next 12 hours.... Or, do I scrap my
> Pilsner plans and pitch some muntons dry yeast that I have on hand and
> hope for something drinkable. Any suggestions.
>
> Ryan
>
When you smack one of these packs all you are doing is releasing a tiny
bit of wort into the yeast. The purpose of this is to only to activate
the yeast. There is not enough wort there to stimulate any growth. The
swelling indicates that the yeast is metabolizing what little food is
there even though no reproduction is taking place.
The fact that your pack is beginning to swell indicates that the yeast
is alive and well even though it hasn't finished using up the nutrients
in the starter wort. You will be pitching the same amount of healthy
yeast now as you would if you waited another 12 hours to pitch. So go
ahead and pitch now. I certainly don't like letting the wort sit for
another 12 hours plus the lag time to get the yeast actually going.
That said, you really should have made a starter. Those packs only have
about 1/4 the yeast you should really have. You reduce the lag time and
lessen the chance of an infection taking hold in your beer.
Wayne
Bugeater Brewing Company
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Date: 04 Jul 2006 23:57:41
From: QD Steve
Subject: Re: Pils problems with Wyeast activator
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"Wayne" <bugeaterbrewing@charter.net > wrote in message
news:FjBqg.13$hr1.11@fe07.lga...
> Ryan wrote:
>> So I thought I would brew during the lazy part of my July 4th holiday.
>> I forgot to smack my activator (wyeast Czech Pils) pack until 4 hours
>> before I would need it. In the past, all of my wyeast packs have
>> expanded to full expansion within 3-4 hours, so I thought this was a
>> reasonable risk. However, now I am 1 hour past the time I should have
>> pitched the yeast and It hasn't expanded much at all. So, which of
>> these options is the best choice? Do I pitch the contents of the pack
>> and hope for the best? Or, should I leave my wort sitting and see if
>> it magically expands over the next 12 hours.... Or, do I scrap my
>> Pilsner plans and pitch some muntons dry yeast that I have on hand and
>> hope for something drinkable. Any suggestions.
My suggestion, in these incidences, is to chill the wort to help reduce
possible infection. I do this in my lagering fridge. If you keg beer you may
be able to displace the air in the top of your fermenter with CO2. I have
successfully left wort in this state for 3 days while I make a starter. Then
warm the wort and chill the starter until the temps are roughly equal and
pitch.
Steve W (in Aus)
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Date: 05 Jul 2006 14:44:00
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Pils problems with Wyeast activator
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On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 23:57:41 GMT, <adlab@bigponddotnetdotau.trashthisbit > wrote:
> My suggestion, in these incidences, is to chill the wort to help reduce
> possible infection. I do this in my lagering fridge. If you keg beer you may
> be able to displace the air in the top of your fermenter with CO2. I have
> successfully left wort in this state for 3 days while I make a starter. Then
> warm the wort and chill the starter until the temps are roughly equal and
> pitch.
I don't understand what the purpose of that is though. If you've already got
your wort sitting there waiting for yeast, what benefit does it do at that
point to let it sit for longer while you make a starter. You might as well
pitch the yeast directly into the main batch and let that be your starter.
John.
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Date: 07 Jul 2006 02:46:12
From: QD Steve
Subject: Re: Pils problems with Wyeast activator
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"John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" <spam@shagg.net > wrote in message
news:slrneank57.3de.spam@weizen.shagg.net...
> I don't understand what the purpose of that is though. If you've already
> got
> your wort sitting there waiting for yeast, what benefit does it do at that
> point to let it sit for longer while you make a starter. You might as
> well
> pitch the yeast directly into the main batch and let that be your starter.
>
>
> John.
The benefit of this method is a starter can be made and kept at a
temperature optimal for yeast growth, about 25°C or greater. While yeast
population will increase very rapidly at these temperatures, it is not
optimal to brew lager beer, we know the consequences. Dumping small
populations into cold wort or even into warm wort and crash cooling will
result in a much slower population growth, as we know. Whilst reading that
the optimum population is 10M cell per ml (50M /teaspoon!) during active
fermentation, a half dead pack of Wyeast is going to take a long time to
take off in cold wort.
It makes sense to me anyway.
Steve W (in Aus)
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Date: 05 Jul 2006 14:41:34
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Pils problems with Wyeast activator
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On 4 Jul 2006 13:47:11 -0700, <runtrails@gmail.com > wrote:
> So I thought I would brew during the lazy part of my July 4th holiday.
> I forgot to smack my activator (wyeast Czech Pils) pack until 4 hours
> before I would need it. In the past, all of my wyeast packs have
> expanded to full expansion within 3-4 hours, so I thought this was a
> reasonable risk. However, now I am 1 hour past the time I should have
> pitched the yeast and It hasn't expanded much at all. So, which of
> these options is the best choice? Do I pitch the contents of the pack
> and hope for the best? Or, should I leave my wort sitting and see if
> it magically expands over the next 12 hours.... Or, do I scrap my
> Pilsner plans and pitch some muntons dry yeast that I have on hand and
> hope for something drinkable. Any suggestions.
Personally, I'd pitch the dry yeast. However, if you want to stick with
the Pils plan then go ahead and pitch it now. I doesn't do any good to
let it expand in the pack if your wort is already sitting there waiting
for yeast. You might was well pitch the pack now and let it do the same
thing in your main batch that it would have done while expanding in the pack.
You're going to be underpitching if you do this though, so expect a long
lag time.
IMO, making a starter ahead of time with the liquid yeast is the best idea
though.
John.
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Date: 06 Jul 2006 11:52:40
From: Ryan
Subject: Re: Pils problems with Wyeast activator
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As a follow up, this is what happened. 30+ hours after pitching the
original Wyeast Czech Pils Activator (large package), the beer was
absolutely still. Nervous, I ran to the (now open) local brew shop and
bought a Wyeast Czech Pils propigator (small pack). When it reached
room temperature, I smacked it. This time the package fully expanded
within 4 hours. I pictched this yeast and 7-8 hours later the
fermenter was bubbling away in the fridge at 70 F. The Wyeast pack
recommended starting fermentation at 70F and slowly droping the
temperature over a few days. So, later today I will drop the temp 5
degrees, and continue to do that every 12 hours for a couple of days.
Does that sound about right?
Cheers.
Ryan
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Date: 06 Jul 2006 19:19:22
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Pils problems with Wyeast activator
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On 6 Jul 2006 11:52:40 -0700, <runtrails@gmail.com > wrote:
> fermenter was bubbling away in the fridge at 70 F. The Wyeast pack
> recommended starting fermentation at 70F and slowly droping the
> temperature over a few days. So, later today I will drop the temp 5
> degrees, and continue to do that every 12 hours for a couple of days.
> Does that sound about right?
IMO, this is not the best way to do it. Despite what Wyeast says on their
packs, you'll get better results by making a starter and then pitching your
yeast at the target fermentation temp, not at 70F and then drop it down
later. The reason Wyeast recommends the other way is because it is less
work, not because it makes better beer. The whole bit about pitching warm
and then lowering the temp after fermentation starts is to compensate for
the fact that their packs don't contain enough cells. It's more work, but
if you make a starter first then you eliminate the need to do this, and will
get better results.
John.
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