POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

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Date: 21 Oct 2006 22:12:20
From: Tony M
Subject: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

Hi everyone. This is my first post to any newsgroup! I'm new to homebrewing
and I have a question about brewpots. Stainless steel(SS) or aluminum(AL)?
I've read lots of stuff and they mostly lean toward SS but there are some
that say AL is fine. I can pick up a complete turkey fry set with a 7 1/2
gal AL brewpot with stand and burner from walmart for 40.00 or buy the same
size SS pot (only the pot) from some homebrew supply shop for twice the
money.
My question is how many people use AL pots without any problems? Who swears
by SS or AL. GAME ON!!!

Date: 22 Oct 2006 09:57:39
From: Homebrew Exchange
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

I got a turkey fryer last year for Christmas. It came with an aluminum
pot that I, too, was reluctant to use the AL pot. I even had several
people tell me that the beer would have a distinct aluminum flavor.
(This didn't make sense to me--I used to work in a restaurant that used
aluminum stockpots for everything.)

I decided to risk it...and found that it doesn't appear to make any
difference in the flavor or the overall quality of my beer. I've even
served that beer to the naysayers, who couldn't detect a difference.

My only question is whether or not I can add a Weld-b-gone valve to it.
My pot isn't super-thin, but it isn't very thick either.

Dave
http://www.homebrew-exchange.com

Bob F wrote:
> "Tony M" <fakeemail@null.com> wrote in message
> news:o_udnb4c2pbEYKfYnZ2dnUVZ_tmdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> > Hi everyone. This is my first post to any newsgroup! I'm new to
> homebrewing
> > and I have a question about brewpots. Stainless steel(SS) or aluminum(AL)?
> > I've read lots of stuff and they mostly lean toward SS but there are some
> > that say AL is fine. I can pick up a complete turkey fry set with a 7 1/2
> > gal AL brewpot with stand and burner from walmart for 40.00 or buy the
> same
> > size SS pot (only the pot) from some homebrew supply shop for twice the
> > money.
> > My question is how many people use AL pots without any problems? Who
> swears
> > by SS or AL. GAME ON!!!
>
> I got my turkey fryer kit at Target for $16 a few years ago just after the
> holiday season. The aluminum pot was so thing that just setting it down
> on its bottom edge on concrete while clean dented it enough to show
> through on the inside. Make sure the pot is thick enough to last before
> you buy.
>
> Bob

Date: 22 Oct 2006 19:10:39
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

On 22 2006 09:57:39 -0700, <dave_ward@homebrew-exchange.com > wrote:
> My only question is whether or not I can add a Weld-b-gone valve to it.
> My pot isn't super-thin, but it isn't very thick either.

I've got one in mine, if it means anything.

John.

Date: 22 Oct 2006 12:35:04
From: Scott Lindner
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

>I got a turkey fryer last year for Christmas. It came with an aluminum
> pot that I, too, was reluctant to use the AL pot. I even had several
> people tell me that the beer would have a distinct aluminum flavor.
> (This didn't make sense to me--I used to work in a restaurant that used
> aluminum stockpots for everything.)
>
> I decided to risk it...and found that it doesn't appear to make any
> difference in the flavor or the overall quality of my beer. I've even
> served that beer to the naysayers, who couldn't detect a difference.
[snip]

Just to put things in perspective. I know a guy that took a first at NHC
using an aluminum pot and mash tun.

Date: 22 Oct 2006 19:13:17
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

On Sun, 22 2006 12:35:04 -0600, <nospam@noemail.com > wrote:
>> I even had several people tell me that the beer would have a distinct
>> aluminum flavor.
>> (This didn't make sense to me--I used to work in a restaurant that used
>> aluminum stockpots for everything.)
>
> Just to put things in perspective. I know a guy that took a first at NHC
> using an aluminum pot and mash tun.

As I said, people that tell you not to use AL pots for brewing just don't
know what they're talking about. There's a lot of misinformation out
there based on myths and old wives tales. Unfortunately, that stuff
never seems to go away. Even though it's all bogus information, it tends
to take on a life of it's own.

John.

Date: 24 Oct 2006 06:15:28
From: Norm J
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

On 22 2006 19:13:17 GMT, John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <spam@shagg.net >
wrote:

>As I said, people that tell you not to use AL pots for brewing just don't
>know what they're talking about. There's a lot of misinformation out
>there based on myths and old wives tales. Unfortunately, that stuff
>never seems to go away. Even though it's all bogus information, it tends
>to take on a life of it's own.

As long as there are brewers who have spent the extra $$$ on SS these
myths will persist because they need to feel justified in having spent
the extra money.

Date: 24 Oct 2006 16:58:05
From: timmy
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

Norm J wrote:
> On 22 2006 19:13:17 GMT, John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <spam@shagg.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>As I said, people that tell you not to use AL pots for brewing just don't
>>know what they're talking about. There's a lot of misinformation out
>>there based on myths and old wives tales. Unfortunately, that stuff
>>never seems to go away. Even though it's all bogus information, it tends
>>to take on a life of it's own.
>
>
> As long as there are brewers who have spent the extra $$$ on SS these
> myths will persist because they need to feel justified in having spent
> the extra money.

stuff doesn't stick to stainless as easily, and it's stronger and takes
a bit more wear and tear. there's plenty of reasons it's better.

however on a budget a good AL pot is fine.

i still think storing beer in AL is bad for it's flavour but. compare a
bottle to a tinny :) sure AL gets a layer of oxidization over it, but
since when does oxidization not effect beer.

Date: 24 Oct 2006 07:04:39
From: Norm J
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

On Tue, 24 2006 16:58:05 +1000, timmy <"timothy at
open-networks.net" > wrote:

>
>i still think storing beer in AL is bad for it's flavour but. compare a
>bottle to a tinny :) sure AL gets a layer of oxidization over it, but
>since when does oxidization not effect beer.

Were talking about Aluminum oxides on the aluminum. This is a stable
compound and will not contribute any oxygen to wort.

And theres another myth. That beer in aluminum cans doesn't taste as
good as beer from bottles. I guess thats true if you like light struck
skunked flavors. Modern aluminum cans have a non aluminum layer on the
inside so no metallic flavors can get in the beer.

Date: 25 Oct 2006 14:33:22
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

On Tue, 24 2006 16:58:05 +1000, < > wrote:
> i still think storing beer in AL is bad for it's flavour but. compare a
> bottle to a tinny :) sure AL gets a layer of oxidization over it, but
> since when does oxidization not effect beer.

AL building up an oxidized layer has nothing to do with oxidation of beer.

John.

Date: 22 Oct 2006 09:24:02
From: Bob F
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

Date: 22 Oct 2006 11:35:22
From: Gerard Eberlein
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

"Tony M" <fakeemail@null.com > wrote in message
news:o_udnb4c2pbEYKfYnZ2dnUVZ_tmdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Hi everyone. This is my first post to any newsgroup! I'm new to
homebrewing
> and I have a question about brewpots. Stainless steel(SS) or aluminum(AL)?
> I've read lots of stuff and they mostly lean toward SS but there are some
> that say AL is fine. I can pick up a complete turkey fry set with a 7 1/2
> gal AL brewpot with stand and burner from walmart for 40.00 or buy the
same
> size SS pot (only the pot) from some homebrew supply shop for twice the
> money.
> My question is how many people use AL pots without any problems? Who
swears
> by SS or AL. GAME ON!!!

I originally purchased an SS 30 gallon pot for $40 dollars at some cooking
store. I wish I could recall the place so I could post it here but I don't
recall, it wasn't your mainstream type like lecmere's, or william and
sanoma, they tend to have high prices on them as do brew supply shops. It's
18/0 guage which for the price was reasonable. I have only done extract and
it works beautifully so far. No real scrubbing involved and if the bottom
inside gets a little brown, seems to after a couple batches, instead of
scrubbing I just put enough distilled vinager to cover the bottom let it sit
for 10 minutes and wipe with a soft cloth and it comes right off. No
scrubbing neccesary and no scratches/damage to the pot.

Gerard

Date: 22 Oct 2006 14:31:30
From: Brian Foster
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

"Tony M" <fakeemail@null.com > wrote in message
news:o_udnb4c2pbEYKfYnZ2dnUVZ_tmdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Hi everyone. This is my first post to any newsgroup! I'm new to
> homebrewing and I have a question about brewpots. Stainless steel(SS) or
> aluminum(AL)? I've read lots of stuff and they mostly lean toward SS but
> there are some that say AL is fine. I can pick up a complete turkey fry
> set with a 7 1/2 gal AL brewpot with stand and burner from walmart for
> 40.00 or buy the same size SS pot (only the pot) from some homebrew supply
> shop for twice the money.
> My question is how many people use AL pots without any problems? Who
> swears by SS or AL. GAME ON!!!
Fairly new to this as well but there are other options to Aluminum. First,
since you're in Wal-Mart already, check out the Enamel pots. They had a
pretty big one (6-7gal) for about $20. I also got a 9 gal SS pot at a
sporting good store here in town (Academy) that has been doing just fine for
my full boil extract brews.

There are SS turkey fryer deals out there too. I like the turkey fryer
because it allows me to brew outdoors. Wife is not happy with smell of wort
and one boilover on the stovetop and you will soon wish you were on the
patio with a garden hose handy.

I would use AL pot if I had to, my only question would be if it cleans up as
well as SS. AL has courser texture than SS.

As one other poster puts it, I would not be frying turkeys in the same pot
you make beer in. I've fried turkeys in my big AL pot and it's hard to get
the oil off.

Date: 22 Oct 2006 08:30:47
From: Scott Lindner
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

> Hi everyone. This is my first post to any newsgroup! I'm new to
> homebrewing and I have a question about brewpots. Stainless steel(SS) or
> aluminum(AL)? I've read lots of stuff and they mostly lean toward SS but
> there are some that say AL is fine. I can pick up a complete turkey fry
> set with a 7 1/2 gal AL brewpot with stand and burner from walmart for
> 40.00 or buy the same size SS pot (only the pot) from some homebrew supply
> shop for twice the money.
> My question is how many people use AL pots without any problems? Who
> swears by SS or AL. GAME ON!!!

I use Al only, but would prefer to have stainless steel. I have issues
knowing high amounts of aluminum could be getting into my brew for health
reasons (unproven to date). That's my only reason to prefer stainless steel
over aluminum.

Have I had any problems? I don't know. Call me in 40 years and I'll tell
you if I have Alzheimer's.

I'm sure there are other reasons, but this is my perspective on it. Yet I
still brew using my aluminum pot due to the price of stainless.

Date: 22 Oct 2006 19:07:20
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

On Sun, 22 2006 08:30:47 -0600, <nospam@noemail.com > wrote:
> I use Al only, but would prefer to have stainless steel. I have issues
> knowing high amounts of aluminum could be getting into my brew for health
> reasons (unproven to date). That's my only reason to prefer stainless steel
> over aluminum.

Studies have been done measuring the amount of dissolved AL in wort
that has been boiled in both an AL pot and a SS pot. There was no
difference. You are not going to get more AL in your beer just from
boiling in a AL pot.

John.

Date: 23 Oct 2006 09:37:20
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:

> Studies have been done measuring the amount of dissolved AL in wort
> that has been boiled in both an AL pot and a SS pot. There was no
> difference. You are not going to get more AL in your beer just from
> boiling in a AL pot.

Actually, it was found that the wort boiled in SS had a HIGHER level of
AL! It was attributed to background AL in the water.

---------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.

Date: 23 Oct 2006 17:25:31
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

On Mon, 23 2006 09:37:20 -0700, <denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us > wrote:
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>
>> Studies have been done measuring the amount of dissolved AL in wort
>> that has been boiled in both an AL pot and a SS pot. There was no
>> difference. You are not going to get more AL in your beer just from
>> boiling in a AL pot.
>
> Actually, it was found that the wort boiled in SS had a HIGHER level of
> AL! It was attributed to background AL in the water.

Yep, I remember that too. If I remember they say that the AL present in
the wort (for either pot type) is probably from the water supply. I think
they said that the reason for the SS having a slightly higher AL level
was because the difference between the two samples was within their
measurement error. IE, it was insignificantly higher and smaller than
the accuracy of their readings would reliably show.

John.
>
> ---------->Denny
> --
> Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.

Date: 22 Oct 2006 14:07:58
From: stencil
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

On Sat, 21 2006 22:12:20 -0700, "Tony M" <fakeemail@null.com >
wrote:

>[ ... ] I can pick up a complete turkey fry set with a 7 1/2
>gal AL brewpot with stand and burner from walmart for 40.00 or buy the same
>size SS pot (only the pot) from some homebrew supply shop for twice the
>money.

The equivalent size of Vollrath or Polarware stockpot, already fitted
with spigot and thermowell, is a pleasure to see and feel but will
cost half a grand. The hbss $100 SS pot will be paper-thin and will
have poor riveting on the lug handles.

In addition to being affordable, aluminum offers much better
heat-transfer qualities (read: less scorching,) is lighter and thus
easier to clean and stow, and easier to machine for installing
aftermarket spigots and whatall.

For me the 10X price differential between aluminum and SS "real"
cookware is the decision maker.

stencil sends

Date: 24 Oct 2006 16:18:10
From: Derric
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

>>[ ... ] I can pick up a complete turkey fry set with a 7 1/2 gal AL
...
> The equivalent size of Vollrath or Polarware stockpot, already fitted
> with spigot and thermowell, is a pleasure to see and feel but will
> cost half a grand. ...

I got a 10 gallon aluminum Vollrath (thick!) at a commercial kitchen
supply store retail for about $70. I added a homebuilt valve for about
$15 (I think you can get a Weld-B-Gone valve for about the same).

Derric

Date: 28 Oct 2006 13:38:25
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

stencil wrote:
> On Sat, 21 2006 22:12:20 -0700, "Tony M" <fakeemail@null.com>
> wrote:
>
>> [ ... ] I can pick up a complete turkey fry set with a 7 1/2
>> gal AL brewpot with stand and burner from walmart for 40.00 or buy the same
>> size SS pot (only the pot) from some homebrew supply shop for twice the
>> money.
>
>
> The equivalent size of Vollrath or Polarware stockpot, already fitted
> with spigot and thermowell, is a pleasure to see and feel but will
> cost half a grand. The hbss $100 SS pot will be paper-thin and will
> have poor riveting on the lug handles.

Err, I don't know about Volrath, but a 7.5 Polarware pot (assuming they
even make them that small) fitted with a spigot and thermowell goes
nowhere near $500. Hell, I have a 15 gallon Polarware fitted with same
AND a false bottom and I don't think it even ran $250 inclusive of delivery.

I also have a 15 gallon Al pot, though, and it's fine. SS stands up
better to a variety of cleaners (including caustics) and is more
durable, but the cost difference between the two is substantial enough
that the durability thing is really a non-issue. I would avoid Al only
for things like decion, where some scorching is almost a given -- but
other than that, Al works well.

--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)

Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html

Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!

Date: 22 Oct 2006 11:01:43
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

On Sat, 21 2006 22:12:20 -0700, <fakeemail@null.com > wrote:
> Hi everyone. This is my first post to any newsgroup! I'm new to homebrewing
> and I have a question about brewpots. Stainless steel(SS) or aluminum(AL)?
> I've read lots of stuff and they mostly lean toward SS but there are some
> that say AL is fine. I can pick up a complete turkey fry set with a 7 1/2
> gal AL brewpot with stand and burner from walmart for 40.00 or buy the same
> size SS pot (only the pot) from some homebrew supply shop for twice the
> money.
> My question is how many people use AL pots without any problems? Who swears
> by SS or AL. GAME ON!!!

There's nothing wrong with AL. People who say otherwise usually do so because
they are misinformed. The main advantages are that AL is much cheaper, but
SS is much stronger. The SS is nice if you can afford it, but I would not
hesitate for a second to get an AL pot. I've got a similar turkey fryer kit
and use the 7.5 gallon AL pot for all my extract beers.

John.

Date: 22 Oct 2006 07:12:14
From: Dick Adams
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

Tony M <fakeemail@null.com > wrote:

> ...
>
> My question is how many people use AL pots without any problems?
> Who swears by SS or AL. GAME ON!!!

Beware of thin AL. I started with an AL brewpot. It got scorched
with LME on my electric stove. After cleaning it three times with
a Brillo pad, I put a hole in it! Fortunately it was in the sink
when I found the pinhole!

Now I use SS only. But YMMV (Your mileage may vary).

Dick

Date: 22 Oct 2006 05:59:38
From: Adam Preble
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

Tony M wrote:
> Hi everyone. This is my first post to any newsgroup! I'm new to homebrewing
> and I have a question about brewpots. Stainless steel(SS) or aluminum(AL)?
> I've read lots of stuff and they mostly lean toward SS but there are some
> that say AL is fine. I can pick up a complete turkey fry set with a 7 1/2
> gal AL brewpot with stand and burner from walmart for 40.00 or buy the same
> size SS pot (only the pot) from some homebrew supply shop for twice the
> money.

There's this old wives tale that aluminum pots will give you
Alzheimer's. I think the connection is weak at best. If getting a pot
of one type or another was as easy as picking between door #1 or door
#2, I'd go with stainless steel. However, I use aluminum too and it's
fine. Well, the soundness of my mind has been implicitly questioned
here on the group, but that would be for symptoms unrelated to
Alzheimer's Disease.

I got a turkey fryer with a stainless steel pot, but it is very thin. I
think that nullifies a lot of the advantage--has somebody even seen an
aluminum pot with a thick bottom? Something with a little more heft
would be nice for decion mashing or direct heat mashing stages; it
would be harded to scorch the bottom.

> My question is how many people use AL pots without any problems? Who swears
> by SS or AL. GAME ON!!!

It's like you're expecting us to kill each other over this or something.

Date: 22 Oct 2006 11:03:40
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

On Sun, 22 2006 05:59:38 GMT, <rockobonaparte@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Tony M wrote:
>> Hi everyone. This is my first post to any newsgroup! I'm new to homebrewing
>> and I have a question about brewpots. Stainless steel(SS) or aluminum(AL)?
>> I've read lots of stuff and they mostly lean toward SS but there are some
>> that say AL is fine. I can pick up a complete turkey fry set with a 7 1/2
>> gal AL brewpot with stand and burner from walmart for 40.00 or buy the same
>> size SS pot (only the pot) from some homebrew supply shop for twice the
>> money.
>
> There's this old wives tale that aluminum pots will give you
> Alzheimer's. I think the connection is weak at best.

Thoroughly disproven. AL pots have nothing to do with Alzheimers.

John.

Date: 21 Oct 2006 23:24:40
From: Tony M
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

I didn't even think of Alzheimer's. Maybe since it's so widely sold in
stores for other cooking appliances I assumed (ass of you and me) that
"they" wouldn't allow a harmful product to be sold to the public. I'm more
concerned with off flavors in my beer using aluminum. Is that an old wives
tale? What if I actually use a turkey fryer to occasionally fry a turkey in
but mostly use it for beer. Any drawbacks to this? I'm just starting out so
I have to buy everything to start with so the budget(wife) has to agree. Do
you see the connection with the turkey fryer? Yes I am trying to start a
heated debate between the two. If it's true that stainlessis better as far
as flavor I'll just have to over-rule the budget(wife).

"Adam Preble" <rockobonaparte@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:eND_g.728$GR2.286@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> Tony M wrote:
>> Hi everyone. This is my first post to any newsgroup! I'm new to
>> homebrewing and I have a question about brewpots. Stainless steel(SS) or
>> aluminum(AL)? I've read lots of stuff and they mostly lean toward SS but
>> there are some that say AL is fine. I can pick up a complete turkey fry
>> set with a 7 1/2 gal AL brewpot with stand and burner from walmart for
>> 40.00 or buy the same size SS pot (only the pot) from some homebrew
>> supply shop for twice the money.
>
> There's this old wives tale that aluminum pots will give you Alzheimer's.
> I think the connection is weak at best. If getting a pot of one type or
> another was as easy as picking between door #1 or door #2, I'd go with
> stainless steel. However, I use aluminum too and it's fine. Well, the
> soundness of my mind has been implicitly questioned here on the group, but
> that would be for symptoms unrelated to Alzheimer's Disease.
>
> I got a turkey fryer with a stainless steel pot, but it is very thin. I
> think that nullifies a lot of the advantage--has somebody even seen an
> aluminum pot with a thick bottom? Something with a little more heft would
> be nice for decion mashing or direct heat mashing stages; it would be
> harded to scorch the bottom.
>
>> My question is how many people use AL pots without any problems? Who
>> swears by SS or AL. GAME ON!!!
>
> It's like you're expecting us to kill each other over this or something.

Date: 22 Oct 2006 11:08:20
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

On Sat, 21 2006 23:24:40 -0700, <fakeemail@null.com > wrote:
> I didn't even think of Alzheimer's. Maybe since it's so widely sold in
> stores for other cooking appliances I assumed (ass of you and me) that
> "they" wouldn't allow a harmful product to be sold to the public.

Ignore all the Alzheimers talk, it's completely false. It's just a stupid
myth that won't go away (as you can tell, I get tired of people bringing it
up).

> I'm more
> concerned with off flavors in my beer using aluminum. Is that an old wives
> tale?

There shouldn't be any off flavors. It is true that you want to be careful
cooking *really* acidic things in AL like tomatoe sauce because it will
react with the metal. However, beer is nowhere near acidic enough, so it
does not cause a problem.

> What if I actually use a turkey fryer to occasionally fry a turkey in
> but mostly use it for beer. Any drawbacks to this?

This one might give you trouble. Technically it will work fine, but many
people have found that once they cook a turkey in their pot it is *extremely*
difficult to get it clean again. It takes a *ton* of scrubbing to get all
of the oil and residual turkey flavor out of the pot in order to make it
suitable for brewing again. If you have plans for frying a turkey, I would
plan on getting a seperate pot for it.

> If it's true that stainlessis better as far as flavor I'll just have to
> over-rule the budget(wife).

There is no difference between the two in terms of flavor.

John.

Date: 22 Oct 2006 09:38:19
From: Mark R
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

"John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" <spam@shagg.net > wrote in message
>
> > What if I actually use a turkey fryer to occasionally fry a turkey in
> > but mostly use it for beer. Any drawbacks to this?
>
> This one might give you trouble. Technically it will work fine, but many
> people have found that once they cook a turkey in their pot it is
*extremely*
> difficult to get it clean again.

John's right. Aluminum is more porous and will soak up that hot oil. To get
it clean enough for brewing you'll have to scrub till it's shiny. With
brewing you try to build up that dark aluminum oxide layer on the inside and
leave it there. What I would do is buy the set for frying with oil and buy a
stainless pot for brewing. Do you have an Academy Sports and Outdoors in
your area? I got my stainless pot there. It's thin walled and cheap but I've
been using it for over 6 years with no problems. Don't remember the cost now
but I want to say it was under $35. You take a hit up front but the fryer
and pot were the best investments I made when I was starting to brew.

Mark R

Date: 22 Oct 2006 08:34:30
From: Scott Lindner
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

> Ignore all the Alzheimers talk, it's completely false. It's just a stupid
> myth that won't go away (as you can tell, I get tired of people bringing
> it
> up).

It's more than a myth, but it hasn't been proven or disproven. The origin's
of the aluminum tie to Alzheimer's is people with the disease have a
significantly higher concentration of aluminum in the brain compared to
those people that do not have the disease. The trouble is this does not
establish cause and effect. Is the problem higher aluminum in the diets, or
that the disease itself encourages an uptake of aluminum? It hasn't been
proven either way yet. It isn't a myth, it is real. We just don't know
which is the cause, and which is the effect yet.

As for being tired of people bringing it up. Some people care more than
others about health. It's not wrong to care, and it's not wrong to not
care.

Date: 22 Oct 2006 19:35:17
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

On Sun, 22 2006 08:34:30 -0600, <nospam@noemail.com > wrote:
>> Ignore all the Alzheimers talk, it's completely false. It's just a stupid
>> myth that won't go away (as you can tell, I get tired of people bringing
>> it
>> up).
>
> It's more than a myth, but it hasn't been proven or disproven. The origin's
> of the aluminum tie to Alzheimer's is people with the disease have a
> significantly higher concentration of aluminum in the brain compared to
> those people that do not have the disease.

You're missing part of the story. It is a myth. I know the study you're
talking about, and that is what started a lot of the AL brewing pot fear.
However, it was later found out that the study was flawed. The higher
levels of AL they found in Alzheimer's brain tissue was a contamination
in their lab. In other words, the brain tissue did not have higher levels
in the patient, it was accidentally added later in the study. The stains that
are commonly used on brain cells in order to examine them contain AL, this is
what they were seeing. Other studies have been done since then on Alzheimer's
brain tissue using techniques that don't involve staining, and they detected
no AL in the tissue.

Besides that, brewing in AL does not result in higher levels of AL in the
beer (which is also a myth). Studies have been done measuring the amount
of AL in wort that has been boiled in an AL pot and a SS pot. There was
no difference in the level of AL.

> As for being tired of people bringing it up. Some people care more than
> others about health. It's not wrong to care, and it's not wrong to not
> care.

I have no problem with people caring about their health. What I find annoying
is when the same information is brought up over and over again when that
information is completely false. Both of the points above are myths, but
people keep believing them anyway.

John.

Date: 30 Oct 2006 17:21:50
From: Scott Lindner
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

I believe this is a relatively official word on the topic.
http://www.alz.org/Resources/FactSheets/FSAluminum.pdf

Date: 31 Oct 2006 16:13:09
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

On Mon, 30 2006 17:21:50 -0700, <nospam@noemail.com > wrote:
> I believe this is a relatively official word on the topic.
> http://www.alz.org/Resources/FactSheets/FSAluminum.pdf

Even beyond the argument of whether it does or does not have anything to
do with Alzheimer's is a fact that people who argue against using AL
in brewing completely miss. You are not going to get additional AL in
your beer by brewing in an AL kettle. So, besides the evidence that says
there is no health risk associated with AL, you are not going to get more AL
in your beer in the first place so the whole thing is a pointless argument.

I hate this stupid myth, although I don't think it will ever go away.

John.

Date: 31 Oct 2006 12:15:25
From: Gerard Eberlein
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

"John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" <spam@shagg.net > wrote in message
news:slrneketp3.6o4.spam@weizen.shagg.net...
> On Mon, 30 2006 17:21:50 -0700, <nospam@noemail.com> wrote:
> > I believe this is a relatively official word on the topic.
> > http://www.alz.org/Resources/FactSheets/FSAluminum.pdf
>
> Even beyond the argument of whether it does or does not have anything to
> do with Alzheimer's is a fact that people who argue against using AL
> in brewing completely miss. You are not going to get additional AL in
> your beer by brewing in an AL kettle. So, besides the evidence that says
> there is no health risk associated with AL, you are not going to get more
AL
> in your beer in the first place so the whole thing is a pointless
argument.
>
> I hate this stupid myth, although I don't think it will ever go away.
>
>
> John.

Sounds like a job for Mythbusters, LOL. I saw them do a show on the fastest
way to cool a 6 pack of beer. Found that a fire extinguisher was the fastest
although obviously not the best method.

Gerard

Date: 31 Oct 2006 21:30:09
From: Andy H
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

A faster way too cool the same six-pack is to use chunks of dry-ice
mixed with pure alcohol or acetone to make an ice bath (~
-200F)..we're talking seconds. :-)

--
Andy H.

On Tue, 31 2006 12:15:25 -0500, "Gerard Eberlein"
<dormouse@charter.net > wrote:

>
>"John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" <spam@shagg.net> wrote in message
>news:slrneketp3.6o4.spam@weizen.shagg.net...
>> On Mon, 30 2006 17:21:50 -0700, <nospam@noemail.com> wrote:
>> > I believe this is a relatively official word on the topic.
>> > http://www.alz.org/Resources/FactSheets/FSAluminum.pdf
>>
>> Even beyond the argument of whether it does or does not have anything to
>> do with Alzheimer's is a fact that people who argue against using AL
>> in brewing completely miss. You are not going to get additional AL in
>> your beer by brewing in an AL kettle. So, besides the evidence that says
>> there is no health risk associated with AL, you are not going to get more
>AL
>> in your beer in the first place so the whole thing is a pointless
>argument.
>>
>> I hate this stupid myth, although I don't think it will ever go away.
>>
>>
>> John.
>
>Sounds like a job for Mythbusters, LOL. I saw them do a show on the fastest
>way to cool a 6 pack of beer. Found that a fire extinguisher was the fastest
>although obviously not the best method.
>
>Gerard
>

Date: 31 Oct 2006 22:52:00
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

On Tue, 31 2006 21:30:09 GMT, <nospam@myaccount.net > wrote:
> A faster way too cool the same six-pack is to use chunks of dry-ice
> mixed with pure alcohol or acetone to make an ice bath (~
> -200F)..we're talking seconds. :-)

I imagine a liquid nitrogen (-320F) bath would be pretty quick as well.

Although, if anyone is expecting any real science from the Mythbusters
they're just fooling themselves. Their show is mostly about special
effects, not accurate information.

John.

Date: 31 Oct 2006 18:18:09
From: Scott Lindner
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

> Even beyond the argument of whether it does or does not have anything to
> do with Alzheimer's is a fact that people who argue against using AL
> in brewing completely miss. You are not going to get additional AL in
> your beer by brewing in an AL kettle. So, besides the evidence that says
> there is no health risk associated with AL, you are not going to get more
> AL
> in your beer in the first place so the whole thing is a pointless
> argument.

I completley disagree with you here. Other metals come out of cookware into
food. Boil potatoes in a cheap SS pot, then try again in an expensive SS
pot. Look at the potatoes. Or how about the people that can bring the
shine back in their SS pot using tomato sauce. You know what's going on
here, right? It's mostly nickel and lead going into the food, but metals do
get into our foods from our cookware. There is reason to be concerned. I
know nothing about AL cookware but cheap SS can result in an appreciable
level of metals in your foods. I have no clue how this relates to brewing
and AL, but you can't just write this topic off as hysterical idiots that
can't let the topic go. There's a good foundation that supports the
concerns.

Scott

Date: 01 Nov 2006 08:54:35
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

Scott Lindner wrote:
>> Even beyond the argument of whether it does or does not have anything to
>> do with Alzheimer's is a fact that people who argue against using AL
>> in brewing completely miss. You are not going to get additional AL in
>> your beer by brewing in an AL kettle. So, besides the evidence that says
>> there is no health risk associated with AL, you are not going to get more
>> AL
>> in your beer in the first place so the whole thing is a pointless
>> argument.
>
> I completley disagree with you here. Other metals come out of cookware into
> food. Boil potatoes in a cheap SS pot, then try again in an expensive SS
> pot. Look at the potatoes. Or how about the people that can bring the
> shine back in their SS pot using tomato sauce. You know what's going on
> here, right? It's mostly nickel and lead going into the food, but metals do
> get into our foods from our cookware. There is reason to be concerned. I
> know nothing about AL cookware but cheap SS can result in an appreciable
> level of metals in your foods. I have no clue how this relates to brewing
> and AL, but you can't just write this topic off as hysterical idiots that
> can't let the topic go. There's a good foundation that supports the
> concerns.
>

Actually, given that aluminum is the third most common element on the
planet and given the article you posted, there really doesn't seem to be
a good foundation for concern about aluminum cookware at all, which is
why most healthcare professionals don't deem it a hazard.

I don't mean to give offense, but your concerns *do* seem overblown,
even in light of your own posted references. My guess is that there a
long list of other, far more significant hazards associated with brewing
and drinking than the use of Al cookware (careless propane use, driving
drunk, tripping and hitting your head, obesity, etc).

--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)

Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html

Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!

Date: 01 Nov 2006 20:37:34
From: Scott Lindner
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

> I don't mean to give offense, but your concerns *do* seem overblown, even
> in light of your own posted references. My guess is that there a long list
> of other, far more significant hazards associated with brewing and
> drinking than the use of Al cookware (careless propane use, driving drunk,
> tripping and hitting your head, obesity, etc).

I think you're confused following the thread. I don't have any concerns
with AL as a brew pot. I still use an AL brew pot and don't have any plans
to change it any time soon. What I have been saying is there is a
legitimate reason to be concerned about metal cookware leeching metals into
our foods. This is legitimate concern with real examples that are common.
People not understanding that AL is not a prime culprit is something that
not everyone will know. I posted the article because it acknowledges these
things and comes from a fairly reputable source. So my motive is to tame
the distaste for people bringing up the topic of metal cookware. It is a
very legitimate concern.

Scott

Date:
From:
Subject:

Date: 01 Nov 2006 21:00:22
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

On Tue, 31 2006 18:18:09 -0700, <nospam@noemail.com > wrote:
>> Even beyond the argument of whether it does or does not have anything to
>> do with Alzheimer's is a fact that people who argue against using AL
>> in brewing completely miss. You are not going to get additional AL in
>> your beer by brewing in an AL kettle. So, besides the evidence that says
>> there is no health risk associated with AL, you are not going to get more
>> AL
>> in your beer in the first place so the whole thing is a pointless
>> argument.
>
> I completley disagree with you here. Other metals come out of cookware into
> food. Boil potatoes in a cheap SS pot, then try again in an expensive SS
> pot. Look at the potatoes. Or how about the people that can bring the
> shine back in their SS pot using tomato sauce. You know what's going on
> here, right? It's mostly nickel and lead going into the food, but metals do
> get into our foods from our cookware.

None of which has anything to do with brewing in AL.

> There is reason to be concerned.

Not really.

> I have no clue how this relates to brewing and AL

Obviously.

> but you can't just write this topic off as hysterical idiots that
> can't let the topic go. There's a good foundation that supports the
> concerns.

There is no foundation that supports your concerns. Your concerns have
been disproven in many scientific studies.

Obviously you are going to be worried about this issue regardless of
the facts and reality. In that case, go ahead and spend the extra money
on a SS pot, it will at least make you feel better.

The rest of us who actually understand that there is no concern will
continue to happily brew in AL.

John.

Date: 28 Oct 2006 13:49:13
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

Scott Lindner wrote:
>> Ignore all the Alzheimers talk, it's completely false. It's just a stupid
>> myth that won't go away (as you can tell, I get tired of people bringing
>> it
>> up).
>
> It's more than a myth, but it hasn't been proven or disproven. The origin's
> of the aluminum tie to Alzheimer's is people with the disease have a
> significantly higher concentration of aluminum in the brain compared to
> those people that do not have the disease. The trouble is this does not
> establish cause and effect. Is the problem higher aluminum in the diets, or
> that the disease itself encourages an uptake of aluminum? It hasn't been
> proven either way yet. It isn't a myth, it is real. We just don't know
> which is the cause, and which is the effect yet.
>
> As for being tired of people bringing it up. Some people care more than
> others about health. It's not wrong to care, and it's not wrong to not
> care.
>
>

Yes -- however I believe the issue with Al found in brain tissue had do
do with sample preparation post mortem. In other words, it wasn't
ingested. The Al-Alzheimer's link has not, strictly-speaking, been
disproved, but it appears unlikely. Moreover, you'll not really pick up
much aluminum from your brew kettle to begin with.

Bear in mind that buffered asprin, antacids, and lot's of other stuff
folks consume contains massive amounts of aluminum, yet there's no
evidence that these people have any greater tendency to the disease.

--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)

Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html

Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!

Date: 21 Oct 2006 22:30:35
From:
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

Date: 22 Oct 2006 20:30:10
From: Tony M
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

Thanks everyone for all the input. I've heard all I needed/wanted to hear.
I'm going to buy the 40.00 turkey fryer from walmart tomorrow. I'll also buy
another pot later for turkeys so I won't have to worry about messing up my
brewpot. I also just ordered a two stage brewing starter kit and a Sierra
Pale Ale clone kit witha White Labs California Ale 001 pitchable tube from
Midwest Supply. I do feel that the clone kit is a little pricey but I wanted
a "sure thing" recipe for my first real brew. My first was two months ago
with a MR Beer kit I bought. Lets just say after two weeks of anticipation
like a kid at Christmas time I was more than disappointed. If everything
goes right I'll be brewing by next weekend.

"Tony M" <fakeemail@null.com > wrote in message
news:o_udnb4c2pbEYKfYnZ2dnUVZ_tmdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Hi everyone. This is my first post to any newsgroup! I'm new to
> homebrewing and I have a question about brewpots. Stainless steel(SS) or
> aluminum(AL)? I've read lots of stuff and they mostly lean toward SS but
> there are some that say AL is fine. I can pick up a complete turkey fry
> set with a 7 1/2 gal AL brewpot with stand and burner from walmart for
> 40.00 or buy the same size SS pot (only the pot) from some homebrew supply
> shop for twice the money.
> My question is how many people use AL pots without any problems? Who
> swears by SS or AL. GAME ON!!!
>

Date: 24 Oct 2006 16:48:58
From: Bob F
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

"Tony M" <fakeemail@null.com > wrote in message
news:FOKdnQQXxp0DqqHYnZ2dnUVZ_uudnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Thanks everyone for all the input. I've heard all I needed/wanted to hear.
> I'm going to buy the 40.00 turkey fryer from walmart tomorrow. I'll also
buy
> another pot later for turkeys so I won't have to worry about messing up my
> brewpot.

Buy the new pot for brewing. You'll use it a lot more, and you want
one that lasts. No problem using the origional for beer, then turkey.

Bob

Date: 24 Oct 2006 06:10:51
From: Norm J
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

On Sat, 21 2006 22:12:20 -0700, "Tony M" <fakeemail@null.com >
wrote:

>My question is how many people use AL pots without any problems? Who swears
>by SS or AL. GAME ON!!!
>
I use aluminum exclusively. Note that John Palmer is a metalurgical
engineer by profession and has in his book and numerous times in
forums and interviews talked about aluminum. He says aluminum is fine
with one qualifier; that it needs to build up a slight oxide layer to
be immune from affecting beer flavor. This can be accomplished by
boiling water in it a couple of times. Comments about thin aluminum in
turkey friers are true but I had no problem with it until I tried to
drill it and install a valve in it. The aluminum cracked. I was able
to salvage the pot but now use a much nicer 10 gallon commercial stock
pot with thick aluminum. I believe I paid $40 for it on ebay.

Date: 01 Nov 2006 23:25:06
From: Tony M
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

"Norm J" <fishface876@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:d6brj2pqnnklbm7ljf5497cup1rnq3mmrq@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 21 2006 22:12:20 -0700, "Tony M" <fakeemail@null.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>My question is how many people use AL pots without any problems? Who
>>swears
>>by SS or AL. GAME ON!!!
>>
> I use aluminum exclusively. Note that John Palmer is a metalurgical
> engineer by profession and has in his book and numerous times in
> forums and interviews talked about aluminum. He says aluminum is fine
> with one qualifier; that it needs to build up a slight oxide layer to
> be immune from affecting beer flavor. This can be accomplished by
> boiling water in it a couple of times. Comments about thin aluminum in
> turkey friers are true but I had no problem with it until I tried to
> drill it and install a valve in it. The aluminum cracked. I was able
> to salvage the pot but now use a much nicer 10 gallon commercial stock
> pot with thick aluminum. I believe I paid $40 for it on ebay.

What type of valve did you install? Does it have a rubber or similar type
o-ring to keep it from leaking? Any problems melting the O-ring if
installed? I want to install one on mine but I'm not real sure how I would
keep it from leaking with out melting an o-ring during the boil. Thanks.

Date: 02 Nov 2006 17:03:02
From: Wayne
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 23:25:06 -0800, Tony M wrote:

> What type of valve did you install? Does it have a rubber or similar type
> o-ring to keep it from leaking? Any problems melting the O-ring if
> installed? I want to install one on mine but I'm not real sure how I would
> keep it from leaking with out melting an o-ring during the boil. Thanks.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/weldless.html

The Other Wayne
No Connection With Any Brewery :-)
--
Registered Linux user #375994
http://www.geocities.jp/rondonko/

Date: 02 Nov 2006 16:02:09
From: Wayne
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

Wayne wrote:

> The Other Wayne
> No Connection With Any Brewery :-)

Thanks for making the distinction! :)

Wayne
Bugeater Brewing Company

Date: 03 Nov 2006 09:19:57
From: Wayne
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 16:02:09 -0600, Wayne wrote:

> Wayne wrote:
>
>> The Other Wayne
>> No Connection With Any Brewery :-)
>
>
> Thanks for making the distinction! :)
>
> Wayne
> Bugeater Brewing Company

Well, it is a bit of a lie, I do have a connection with quite a few
breweries.... in that I drink their beers :-)

The Other Other Wayne

PS. Went to buy ingredients for my second batch but the store was
out of the stuff I wanted! Must be getting popular here!
--
Registered Linux user #375994
http://www.geocities.jp/rondonko/

Date: 04 Nov 2006 03:17:37
From: Boll Weevil Brewery
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

"Wayne" <rondonjin@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:pan.2006.11.02.08.03.00.213947@yahoo.com...
> On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 23:25:06 -0800, Tony M wrote:
>
>> What type of valve did you install? Does it have a rubber or similar type
>> o-ring to keep it from leaking? Any problems melting the O-ring if
>> installed? I want to install one on mine but I'm not real sure how I
>> would
>> keep it from leaking with out melting an o-ring during the boil. Thanks.
>
> http://www.northernbrewer.com/weldless.html
>
> The Other Wayne
> No Connection With Any Brewery :-)
> --
> Registered Linux user #375994
> http://www.geocities.jp/rondonko/
>

I have a question about a couple of the products on that page that some of
you may know....it shows the "Cooler Kit Delux" part number 7580, a s/s ball
valve and on down the page it shows the "Weldless Delux" kit for a kettle,
part number 7582, also a s/s ball valve and both are 1/2 inch. What is the
difference between a 1/2" s/s ball valve used for a mash tun versus the same
thing used for a boil kettle?

Thanks for the link btw. I have a converted keg that I haven't used yet, and
a 1/2" stainless ball valve...and I just found the rest of the parts I've
been trying to find locally on that page. Maybe one day I'll get the
motivation to finish w/my keg project and finally move to all grain. :-)

Ricky

Date: 06 Nov 2006 18:30:00
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

On Sat, 04 Nov 2006 03:17:37 GMT, <webmaster@bwbd.com > wrote:
> I have a question about a couple of the products on that page that some of
> you may know....it shows the "Cooler Kit Delux" part number 7580, a s/s ball
> valve and on down the page it shows the "Weldless Delux" kit for a kettle,
> part number 7582, also a s/s ball valve and both are 1/2 inch. What is the
> difference between a 1/2" s/s ball valve used for a mash tun versus the same
> thing used for a boil kettle?

I think the difference is that the bulkhead fitting is longer for the cooler
kit. The plastic walls of a cooler are much thicker than the walls of
a kettle. They're probably both using the same ball valve.

John.

Date: 03 Nov 2006 16:30:15
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 23:25:06 -0800, <fakeemail@null.com > wrote:
> What type of valve did you install? Does it have a rubber or similar type
> o-ring to keep it from leaking? Any problems melting the O-ring if
> installed? I want to install one on mine but I'm not real sure how I would
> keep it from leaking with out melting an o-ring during the boil. Thanks.

Most of the weldless kits you get from homebrew stores come with a high temp
o-ring that holds up during boiling without any problems (they say it
withstands up to 400F). You could probably find something similar from a
hardware store if you wanted to put one together yourself.

Here's a link to morebeer's weldless kit page, including the high temp oring
sold seperately if you want to get it from them. Other online stores
probably carry the same thing though.

http://morebeer.com/browse.html?category_id=1080

John.

Date:
From:
Subject:

Date: 25 Oct 2006 12:58:00
From:
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> On 25 2006 08:26:14 -0700, <yournotauser@gmail.com> wrote:
> > You have no idea how much I wish most breweries would put their good
> > beers in cans. Why, oh why, do so many European brewers bottle their
> > beer in brown glass in Europe, but then ship it to the U.S. in green?
> > Cans would fix that problem right quick. If they and the microbrewers
> > in the U.S. would use cans I could then take beer I can stomach places
> > that don't allow glass containers. Liquor companies have started
> > selling plastic bottles in the summer for just this reason.
>
> I think cans just have too much of an association with cheap crappy
> beer in the US. If a decent import or microbrew tried to sell their stuff
> in cans at microbrew prices, they probably wouldn't be very successfull.
> The average Joe's knee jerk reaction standing in the store would be that
> it's way too expensive for canned beer, even though they'd probably buy the
> same beer at the same price if it were in a bottle.

Oh, no doubt. But for those that understand that polymer coated
aluminum cans protect better against oxygen infiltration than (most)
bottle caps, are totally opaque so no UV damage, are no more reactive
than glass, are cheaper than bottles, and they chill faster due to the
conductivity, would buy in cans. They stack better and take up less
space too. I know a lot of marketing is image, but most times I wish
it wasn't.

Bryan

p.s. I know it will never happen, but St. Bernardus Tripel in 16 oz
tallboy cans would be great. A four pack for $17 would put most people
off, but that would be slightly cheaper than $8.50 for a 750ml bottle
which they don't blink at, usually. :(

>
>
> John.

Date: 25 Oct 2006 20:25:17
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

On 25 2006 12:58:00 -0700, <yournotauser@gmail.com > wrote:
> Oh, no doubt. But for those that understand that polymer coated
> aluminum cans protect better against oxygen infiltration than (most)
> bottle caps, are totally opaque so no UV damage, are no more reactive
> than glass, are cheaper than bottles, and they chill faster due to the
> conductivity, would buy in cans. They stack better and take up less
> space too.

I agree with your point, but those that understand all of that are by
far in the minority.

> I know a lot of marketing is image, but most times I wish it wasn't.

I think *all* of marketing is image.

John.

Date: 26 Oct 2006 18:23:30
From: Scott Alfter
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

In article <1161806280.299799.269590@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com >,
<yournotauser@gmail.com > wrote:
>John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>> I think cans just have too much of an association with cheap crappy
>> beer in the US. If a decent import or microbrew tried to sell their stuff
>> in cans at microbrew prices, they probably wouldn't be very successfull.
>> The average Joe's knee jerk reaction standing in the store would be that
>> it's way too expensive for canned beer, even though they'd probably buy the
>> same beer at the same price if it were in a bottle.
>
>Oh, no doubt. But for those that understand that polymer coated
>aluminum cans protect better against oxygen infiltration than (most)
>bottle caps, are totally opaque so no UV damage, are no more reactive
>than glass, are cheaper than bottles, and they chill faster due to the
>conductivity, would buy in cans. They stack better and take up less
>space too. I know a lot of marketing is image, but most times I wish
>it wasn't.

A few years back, someone brought some canned Bitburger over from across the
pond. At the time, I couldn't tell the difference between it and the
bottled variety that we normally get here.

Then again, Bitburger comes here in brown bottles, which are usually
completely enclosed in cardboard. Heineken comes here in green bottles
(which are almost always skunked) or cans. I've been curious as to whether
canned Heineken is skunked before canning (to make it taste/smell like the
bottled stuff) or if it actually arrives here in better coniditon than
bottled. I've not been curious enough to buy a sixer of Heineken cans,
though. :-) Anyone know if canned is better than bottled?

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( http://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

Date: 26 Oct 2006 19:23:08
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

On 26 2006 18:23:30 GMT, <scott@alfter.DIESPAMMERSDIE.us > wrote:
> Then again, Bitburger comes here in brown bottles, which are usually
> completely enclosed in cardboard. Heineken comes here in green bottles
> (which are almost always skunked) or cans. I've been curious as to whether
> canned Heineken is skunked before canning (to make it taste/smell like the
> bottled stuff) or if it actually arrives here in better coniditon than
> bottled. I've not been curious enough to buy a sixer of Heineken cans,
> though. :-) Anyone know if canned is better than bottled?

I can't confirm that this is actually true, but I've heard before that
canned Heineken is also skunked. The reason... they intentionally
skunk it at the brewery because "it's part of the intended flavor" or
something crazy like that.

John.

Date: 30 Oct 2006 09:30:59
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:

> I can't confirm that this is actually true, but I've heard before that
> canned Heineken is also skunked. The reason... they intentionally
> skunk it at the brewery because "it's part of the intended flavor" or
> something crazy like that.

None of the canned Heinikin I've had has been skunked...

--------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.

Date: 30 Oct 2006 19:36:59
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

On Mon, 30 2006 09:30:59 -0800, <denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us > wrote:
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>
>> I can't confirm that this is actually true, but I've heard before that
>> canned Heineken is also skunked. The reason... they intentionally
>> skunk it at the brewery because "it's part of the intended flavor" or
>> something crazy like that.
>
> None of the canned Heinikin I've had has been skunked...

It was something I'd read on here before, could have just been a myth.

John.

Date: 30 Oct 2006 11:55:18
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:

> It was something I'd read on here before, could have just been a myth.

I've heard the same from a number of sources, but having experienced non
skunked Heinikin, I'm kinda skeptical....

-------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.

Date: 30 Oct 2006 21:44:54
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

On Mon, 30 2006 11:55:18 -0800, <denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us > wrote:
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>
>> It was something I'd read on here before, could have just been a myth.
>
> I've heard the same from a number of sources, but having experienced non
> skunked Heinikin, I'm kinda skeptical....

Maybe the non-skunked ones had accidentally slipped past their quality control?

:)

John.

Date: 01 Nov 2006 08:56:32
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:

> Maybe the non-skunked ones had accidentally slipped past their quality control?
>
> :)

Well, then it would be "lack of quality" control! ;)

---------- >Denny

--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.

Date: 01 Nov 2006 18:19:04
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 08:56:32 -0800, <denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us > wrote:
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>
>> Maybe the non-skunked ones had accidentally slipped past their quality control?
>>
>> :)
>
> Well, then it would be "lack of quality" control! ;)

Hmmmm... tastes like beer... reaches for REJECT stamp.

John.

Date: 26 Oct 2006 18:26:59
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

Scott Alfter <scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us > wrote:
> In article <1161806280.299799.269590@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
> <yournotauser@gmail.com> wrote:
>>John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>>> I think cans just have too much of an association with cheap crappy
>>> beer in the US. If a decent import or microbrew tried to sell their stuff
>>> in cans at microbrew prices, they probably wouldn't be very successfull.
>>> The average Joe's knee jerk reaction standing in the store would be that
>>> it's way too expensive for canned beer, even though they'd probably buy the
>>> same beer at the same price if it were in a bottle.
>>
>>Oh, no doubt. But for those that understand that polymer coated
>>aluminum cans protect better against oxygen infiltration than (most)
>>bottle caps, are totally opaque so no UV damage, are no more reactive
>>than glass, are cheaper than bottles, and they chill faster due to the
>>conductivity, would buy in cans. They stack better and take up less
>>space too. I know a lot of marketing is image, but most times I wish
>>it wasn't.
>
> A few years back, someone brought some canned Bitburger over from across the
> pond. At the time, I couldn't tell the difference between it and the
> bottled variety that we normally get here.
>
> Then again, Bitburger comes here in brown bottles, which are usually
> completely enclosed in cardboard. Heineken comes here in green bottles
> (which are almost always skunked) or cans. I've been curious as to whether
> canned Heineken is skunked before canning (to make it taste/smell like the
> bottled stuff) or if it actually arrives here in better coniditon than
> bottled. I've not been curious enough to buy a sixer of Heineken cans,
> though. :-) Anyone know if canned is better than bottled?
>

I never liked Heineken in a bottle because of that skunk funk. I have
to say I've swilled a few dozen of the cans in the last year or so
(couple friends love them) and it is a lot better than I remember the
bottles being. That's just my experience, though.

I wish I could get Pilsner Urquell in cans.

-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!

Date: 26 Oct 2006 19:27:13
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

On Thu, 26 2006 18:26:59 GMT, <syborg@earthlink.net > wrote:
> I wish I could get Pilsner Urquell in cans.

It's much better if you can buy it a case at a time, preferably an unopened
case. The cardboard box should protect the green bottles from any
skunking.

John.

Date: 27 Oct 2006 11:33:37
From:
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> On 26 2006 18:23:30 GMT, <scott@alfter.DIESPAMMERSDIE.us> wrote:
> > Then again, Bitburger comes here in brown bottles, which are usually
> > completely enclosed in cardboard. Heineken comes here in green bottles
> > (which are almost always skunked) or cans. I've been curious as to whether
> > canned Heineken is skunked before canning (to make it taste/smell like the
> > bottled stuff) or if it actually arrives here in better coniditon than
> > bottled. I've not been curious enough to buy a sixer of Heineken cans,
> > though. :-) Anyone know if canned is better than bottled?
>
> I can't confirm that this is actually true, but I've heard before that
> canned Heineken is also skunked. The reason... they intentionally
> skunk it at the brewery because "it's part of the intended flavor" or
> something crazy like that.

That is just so wrong on so many levels. Intentionally spoiling their
product? I can't even think of a fitting punishmet for that.

>
>
> John.

Date: 28 Oct 2006 03:44:04
From: Boll Weevil Brewery
Subject: Re: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

<yournotauser@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1161974017.395832.91190@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> That is just so wrong on so many levels. Intentionally spoiling their
> product? I can't even think of a fitting punishmet for that.
>
>>
>>
>> John.
>

Although the taste skunked hops is not that appealing to me personally, i
disagree with this statement. There are some that would call putting
bacteria into a beer "spoiling" it intentionally. Others simply call it a
Lambic. Apparently there is a mass market that for some reason find a lack
of all beer ingredient tastes with a concentration of skunked hops
appealing. Taste, just like beauty, is in the eye of the beerholder. :-)

Date: 31 Oct 2006 18:34:02
From: alebrewer
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> On Tue, 31 2006 21:30:09 GMT, <nospam@myaccount.net> wrote:
> > A faster way too cool the same six-pack is to use chunks of dry-ice
> > mixed with pure alcohol or acetone to make an ice bath (~
> > -200F)..we're talking seconds. :-)
>
> I imagine a liquid nitrogen (-320F) bath would be pretty quick as well.
>

Actually, LN2 does a rather poor job. Yeah, it's very cold, but you
put a room tempature can (or bottle, for that matter) in it and you get
a vapor blanket that insulates the beverage from the LN2, greatly
slowing the heat transfer. Yes, it will eventually cool, but the dry
ice/alcohol bath will do it much faster.

Either one gets the beer much colder than I like, however...

ab

Date: 01 Nov 2006 19:31:50
From: supadupa
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

When I started brewing two months ago I bought an SS pot. It really is
quite nice, I was surprised at how quickly it heated up and kept that
much liquid boiling with relatively little energy use. I don't know if
aluminum does this as well, but my first batch - after experiencing
some minor problems- turned out to be VERY tasty after about a month of
conditioning in the bottle.

I don't like aluminum pots anyway, they feel too light! It's just a
personal preference though. I think that a new aluminum pot may produce
some off flavors, but if you use it once before just to boil water for
a bit it may get all that extra AL off.

Date: 01 Nov 2006 23:20:24
From: Tony M
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

"supadupa" <zsm2@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1162438310.609674.164810@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> When I started brewing two months ago I bought an SS pot. It really is
> quite nice, I was surprised at how quickly it heated up and kept that
> much liquid boiling with relatively little energy use. I don't know if
> aluminum does this as well, but my first batch - after experiencing
> some minor problems- turned out to be VERY tasty after about a month of
> conditioning in the bottle.
>
> I don't like aluminum pots anyway, they feel too light! It's just a
> personal preference though. I think that a new aluminum pot may produce
> some off flavors, but if you use it once before just to boil water for
> a bit it may get all that extra AL off.
>

That's exactly what I did. I boiled plain water for about an hour to break
it in. During the boil there were literally hundreds of tiny bits of Al
floating in the water. So I'm glad I did it and I highly recommend anyone
with an new AL brewpot to break it in this way. Besides, it helps in
"conditioning" the inside of the pot by turning it brown. As I've heard this
is a protective layer preventing any off tastes. As far as the performance,
the pot performed like a champ heating 5 gal to a boil in a short time and
keeping it there with no problem. Yes it's thinner than SS but seriously the
bottom line is that it's only a brewpot and it does it's job just as a
brewpot should. It boils. After reading all the posts on the subject and
reading the various articles, I don't think there's any real difference in
the two except personal preference and budget size.

Date: 01 Nov 2006 23:33:33
From: Spitzbuben
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

I mash in a hamper, boil in a wood crate, ferment in a cardboard box
and lager in a plastic tupperwear.

My book will be out this fall. It's entitled, "It Something To Do!
Prison Beer; Storys you wish you hadn't heard and beer you wish you
hadn't drunk"

Date: 02 Nov 2006 18:32:38
From: Tony M
Subject: Re: POLL: Brew pot - Stainless or aluminum?

"Spitzbuben" <redrump21@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1162452813.560954.95520@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>I mash in a hamper, boil in a wood crate, ferment in a cardboard box
> and lager in a plastic tupperwear.
>
> My book will be out this fall. It's entitled, "It Something To Do!
> Prison Beer; Storys you wish you hadn't heard and beer you wish you
> hadn't drunk"
>

huh?