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Date: 18 Dec 2006 22:53:01
From: Steve/Aus
Subject: Off flavours and 'ON' flavours
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Over time and with attention to detail I have managed to reduce off
flavours in my light lagers/pilsners to a level whereby they are
non-existant.
I thought this was a great achievement in a difficult style to make but
now I got it down pat, I realise it's not a great achievement, just
knowledge and hard work.
The problem now is my lagers are a bit boring. I just can't seem to get
the flavours in the beer that I am trying to achieve.
Take two German Pilsners, Bitburger and Konig Pilsener. Both are made to
the purity law. They are light in colour, have a pleasant malt character and
light hop presence. This seems to suggest that they are nearly 100% pils
malt. However, both have a dominating grainy taste and a residual sweetness
but finish off dry. The grainyness would suggest an adjunct but the purity
law forbids this. The sweetness suggests possible crystal malt but the
lightness of colour says no. Then again, they finish off dry so the
sweetness might be a perceived sweetness rather than residual sugars. The
grainyness might come from the possible use of Chit malt - a very
undermodified malt permitted under the purity law.
In any case, I can not get any of these wanted flavours into my beer. I
just don't know how to achieve them. I don't know even where to start. One
thought is to use some unmalted barley to take the place of Chit malt -
assuming they do use it in these styles. This of course means a more
complicated step mash procedure.
I can manipulate the maltyness, the bitterness and the hop aroma and
flavour, esters, phenolics etc. but I can not manipulate other flavours like
the grainy flavour at all, and I would like to know how.
Steve W (in Aus)
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Date: 19 Dec 2006 17:27:42
From: Joel
Subject: Re: Off flavours and 'ON' flavours
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Steve/Aus <adlab@bigponddotnetdotau.trashthisbit > wrote:
>The sweetness suggests possible crystal malt but the
>lightness of colour says no.
I haven't made more than one pilsner, but I've made a series
of very light-colored blonde ales. They were all made with
German Pils and a small amount (4-5% of the grist by weight) of
German carahell (10L). So it is possible to use crystal malt
and still have a light colo(u)r.
--
Joel Plutchak
"Things just fall apart." - Now They'll Sleep (Belly)
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Date: 19 Dec 2006 23:22:18
From: Steve/Aus
Subject: Re: Off flavours and 'ON' flavours
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"Joel" <plutchak@see.headers > wrote in message
news:em97ee$nne$1@badger.ncsa.uiuc.edu...
> Steve/Aus <adlab@bigponddotnetdotau.trashthisbit> wrote:
>>The sweetness suggests possible crystal malt but the
>>lightness of colour says no.
>
> I haven't made more than one pilsner, but I've made a series
> of very light-colored blonde ales. They were all made with
> German Pils and a small amount (4-5% of the grist by weight) of
> German carahell (10L). So it is possible to use crystal malt
> and still have a light colo(u)r.
> --
> Joel Plutchak
>
> "Things just fall apart." - Now They'll Sleep (Belly)
I guess what I am trying to say is there are other tastes in beer (lagers)
than just malt flavour and hops.
Subtle flavours of grain, sulphur, dms and the yeast which I think in a lot
of cases adds an 'earthy' taste.
I am specifically referring to pilsners/light lagers.
It is very difficult to control these 'other tastes' at a home brewing level
I think. Which is why I never try to 'clone' a commercial beer. I aim for
style but copying a beer exactly is hit or miss - about 99% miss I'd say.
Steve W (in Aus)
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Date: 19 Dec 2006 08:55:25
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Off flavours and 'ON' flavours
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Steve/Aus wrote:
>
> Over time and with attention to detail I have managed to reduce off
> flavours in my light lagers/pilsners to a level whereby they are
> non-existant.
> I thought this was a great achievement in a difficult style to make but
> now I got it down pat, I realise it's not a great achievement, just
> knowledge and hard work.
> The problem now is my lagers are a bit boring. I just can't seem to get
> the flavours in the beer that I am trying to achieve.
> Take two German Pilsners, Bitburger and Konig Pilsener. Both are made to
> the purity law. They are light in colour, have a pleasant malt character and
> light hop presence. This seems to suggest that they are nearly 100% pils
> malt. However, both have a dominating grainy taste and a residual sweetness
> but finish off dry. The grainyness would suggest an adjunct but the purity
> law forbids this. The sweetness suggests possible crystal malt but the
> lightness of colour says no. Then again, they finish off dry so the
> sweetness might be a perceived sweetness rather than residual sugars. The
> grainyness might come from the possible use of Chit malt - a very
> undermodified malt permitted under the purity law.
> In any case, I can not get any of these wanted flavours into my beer. I
> just don't know how to achieve them. I don't know even where to start. One
> thought is to use some unmalted barley to take the place of Chit malt -
> assuming they do use it in these styles. This of course means a more
> complicated step mash procedure.
> I can manipulate the maltyness, the bitterness and the hop aroma and
> flavour, esters, phenolics etc. but I can not manipulate other flavours like
> the grainy flavour at all, and I would like to know how.
What brand of pils malt are you using? I'd been using only Weyermann
for years, and still think it's a great malt, but when I switched to
Durst I noticed a real improvement in the malt flavor of my pils.
---------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 19 Dec 2006 04:22:25
From: MarkMc
Subject: Re: Off flavours and 'ON' flavours
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Hi Steve.
I've never made a lager as I'm only on batch #7 and see it as something
to work up to, but seeing as nobody else has replied, here are my
thoughts based on what I've read on various brewing forums, books etc.
It sounds like you don't do decoctions, which supposedly can give
melanoidin flavours to the beer, which may be the 'grainy' flavour you
are looking for? Apparently, to emulate the effects of decoction, it's
possible to use some "melanoidin malt" in your grist - don't know how
much though, sorry.
I assume the dry finish is due to the beer being well attenuated, but I
may be wrong here, it may possibly be the hops, as how else would you
get sweetness up front?
What hops are you using? Obviously, for German lagers you should be
using actual German Hallertauer (either hersbrucker or mittlefruh),
tettnang, spalt or similar (perle?) varieties as they are very
distinctive.
Another possibility is the yeast I guess. Are you using the correct
type of German lager yeast for the style? If so, have you tried
fermenting at different temperatures to see what you get?
I guess you may get some more help from those "in the know" here if you
post your recipe, with yeast type, mash temps, boil schedule,
fermentation temps etc.
cheers,
Mark
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