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Date: 23 Jun 2006 12:10:20
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Nottingham -- cloudy?
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Hello All
I just racked my 4th all-grain over to secondary last night and it's
also the second brew I've made with Nottingham. It's also cloudy as
hell, just like the first Nottingham batch. I tried it in place of
WLP005 just for yucks. With the White Labs yeast my beer is never
cloudy (this side of an occasional chill haze).
Does Nottingham want a really chilly secondary to precipitate this
stuff out? Does it have anything to do with the superfine sediment
Nottingham generates? I like the taste and full attenuation of the
Danstar stuff (1.056 - > 1.008 this time) but this cloudiness irks
me. I know some folks don't care, but I do. How about the Safbrew33
and Safale04 dried yeasts - are they similar in this manner to
Nottinghams? I like d*r*y beer so full attenuation is a must.
How exactly are flocculation and the granularity of the sediment
related?
Thanks - JB
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 23 Jun 2006 13:28:00
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Nottingham -- cloudy?
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On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 12:10:20 GMT, <syborg@earthlink.net > wrote:
> Hello All
>
> I just racked my 4th all-grain over to secondary last night and it's
> also the second brew I've made with Nottingham. It's also cloudy as
> hell, just like the first Nottingham batch. I tried it in place of
> WLP005 just for yucks. With the White Labs yeast my beer is never
> cloudy (this side of an occasional chill haze).
IMO, if you just racked to secondary last night then cloudiness is to be
expected. Usually I hvae to leave my beers sit in the secondary for awhile
so that the cloudiness settles out (which is one of the reasons for using
a secondary instead of bottling/kegging right away). Also, since you just
racked it, you might have stirred up some sediment.
Nottingham may be more cloudy than other yeasts at this stage, but I don't
think it really matters. Let it sit in the secondary for 1 - 2 weeks and
then see what it looks like.
John.
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Date: 23 Jun 2006 13:37:02
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: Nottingham -- cloudy?
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <spam@shagg.net > wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 12:10:20 GMT, <syborg@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Hello All
>>
>> I just racked my 4th all-grain over to secondary last night and it's
>> also the second brew I've made with Nottingham. It's also cloudy as
>> hell, just like the first Nottingham batch. I tried it in place of
>> WLP005 just for yucks. With the White Labs yeast my beer is never
>> cloudy (this side of an occasional chill haze).
>
> IMO, if you just racked to secondary last night then cloudiness is to be
> expected. Usually I hvae to leave my beers sit in the secondary for awhile
> so that the cloudiness settles out (which is one of the reasons for using
> a secondary instead of bottling/kegging right away). Also, since you just
> racked it, you might have stirred up some sediment.
>
> Nottingham may be more cloudy than other yeasts at this stage, but I don't
> think it really matters. Let it sit in the secondary for 1 - 2 weeks and
> then see what it looks like.
>
>
> John.
Yep, I like long secondaries. My last English pale ale with Nottingham
sat for about 2 weeks and never truly cleared out. As to an infection,
I suppose it's possible, but I've done 2 WLP005 brews since the
previous Nottingham and both were crystal clear.
I learned from my first Nottingham batch to "rack in place" so I
didn't bring too much sediment over to the secondary. Time will tell,
I guess. I suppose its possible for my process to work differently
with different yeasts. Makes sense.
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 23 Jun 2006 13:48:25
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Nottingham -- cloudy?
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On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:37:02 GMT, <syborg@earthlink.net > wrote:
> Yep, I like long secondaries. My last English pale ale with Nottingham
> sat for about 2 weeks and never truly cleared out. As to an infection,
> I suppose it's possible, but I've done 2 WLP005 brews since the
> previous Nottingham and both were crystal clear.
I wouldn't assume an infection at this stage. I think you're just worrying
about the cloudiness too soon. Let it sit for awhile. If it still doesn't
clear then one thing I like to do is crash cool the secondary down to
near freezing (mid 30s) and let it sit like that for a day or two (assuming
you have the ability to do this). IMO, it really makes a difference in
clarity.
> I guess. I suppose its possible for my process to work differently
> with different yeasts. Makes sense.
Yeah, different strains of yeast tend to behave a little differently.
John.
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Date: 23 Jun 2006 13:55:21
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: Nottingham -- cloudy?
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <spam@shagg.net > wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:37:02 GMT, <syborg@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Yep, I like long secondaries. My last English pale ale with Nottingham
>> sat for about 2 weeks and never truly cleared out. As to an infection,
>> I suppose it's possible, but I've done 2 WLP005 brews since the
>> previous Nottingham and both were crystal clear.
>
> I wouldn't assume an infection at this stage. I think you're just worrying
> about the cloudiness too soon. Let it sit for awhile. If it still doesn't
> clear then one thing I like to do is crash cool the secondary down to
> near freezing (mid 30s) and let it sit like that for a day or two (assuming
> you have the ability to do this). IMO, it really makes a difference in
> clarity.
>
I was planning on getting a chest freezer and temp control unit this
summer. Don't think I will have it in time for this batch, but I can
always make another to try it out. My main reason for getting a
freezer is to have a whack at making a pilsner, but cooling
secondaries like this is also on my radar.
Does cooling a secondary down to near freezing then bringing it back
up to room temp for bottling really have no ill effects on the brew?
>> I guess. I suppose its possible for my process to work differently
>> with different yeasts. Makes sense.
>
> Yeah, different strains of yeast tend to behave a little differently.
>
>
> John.
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 23 Jun 2006 14:03:55
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Nottingham -- cloudy?
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On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:55:21 GMT, <syborg@earthlink.net > wrote:
>> I wouldn't assume an infection at this stage. I think you're just worrying
>> about the cloudiness too soon. Let it sit for awhile. If it still doesn't
>> clear then one thing I like to do is crash cool the secondary down to
>> near freezing (mid 30s) and let it sit like that for a day or two (assuming
>> you have the ability to do this). IMO, it really makes a difference in
>> clarity.
>>
>
> Does cooling a secondary down to near freezing then bringing it back
> up to room temp for bottling really have no ill effects on the brew?
It should not have any ill effects. I would wait until you were definitely
sure that fermentation is complete before doing this though. I like to
wait until my normal secondary is done before crash cooling.
The thing to watch out for is if the yeast have slowed down but not quite
stopped yet. Crash cooling then will probably cause them to temporarily
go dormant, which may give the appearance that they are finished. Once
you warm them back up and bottle, they would probably continue working on
the last little bit of activity and lead to overcarbonation problems (or
bottle bombs if there was enough activity left). Normally this shouldn't
be a problem though.
John.
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Date: 23 Jun 2006 08:06:22
From: Thomas T. Veldhouse
Subject: Re: Nottingham -- cloudy?
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John Bleichert <syborg@earthlink.net > wrote:
> Hello All
>
> I just racked my 4th all-grain over to secondary last night and it's
> also the second brew I've made with Nottingham. It's also cloudy as
> hell, just like the first Nottingham batch. I tried it in place of
> WLP005 just for yucks. With the White Labs yeast my beer is never
> cloudy (this side of an occasional chill haze).
>
> Does Nottingham want a really chilly secondary to precipitate this
> stuff out? Does it have anything to do with the superfine sediment
> Nottingham generates? I like the taste and full attenuation of the
> Danstar stuff (1.056 -> 1.008 this time) but this cloudiness irks
> me. I know some folks don't care, but I do. How about the Safbrew33
> and Safale04 dried yeasts - are they similar in this manner to
> Nottinghams? I like d*r*y beer so full attenuation is a must.
>
> How exactly are flocculation and the granularity of the sediment
> related?
>
I have only used Nottingham once, but I have not seen cloudiness like you
mention. Perhaps you have introduced a recent infection into your equipment
and you need to reevaluate your cleaning and sanitiation procedures? Often, a
brewer will get away with substandard cleaning procedures for some time before
they get a persistant problem they can't seem to get rid of.
If you are considering other yeast, consider using DCL US-56 American Ale.
Wonderful yeast similar to WLP-001.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
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Date: 23 Jun 2006 07:32:38
From: Mark R
Subject: Re: Nottingham -- cloudy?
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"John Bleichert" <syborg@earthlink.net > wrote in message
news:MSQmg.10782$o4.3787@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Hello All
>
> I just racked my 4th all-grain over to secondary last night and it's
> also the second brew I've made with Nottingham. It's also cloudy as
> hell, just like the first Nottingham batch. I tried it in place of
> WLP005 just for yucks. With the White Labs yeast my beer is never
> cloudy (this side of an occasional chill haze).
>
> Does Nottingham want a really chilly secondary to precipitate this
> stuff out? Does it have anything to do with the superfine sediment
> Nottingham generates?
All my recipes are partials and Nottingham is used in close to a third of
those. Never had the problem you're having. Nottingham has always done a
fine job of settling out and my secondaries are done in the low 70s most of
the time. The Windsor has taken a little longer to settle but the recipes I
use with that yeast all benefit from a longer secondary.
Mark R
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Date: 23 Jun 2006 12:42:25
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: Nottingham -- cloudy?
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Mark R <marknorayspam@noev1spam.net > wrote:
>
> "John Bleichert" <syborg@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:MSQmg.10782$o4.3787@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> Hello All
>>
>> I just racked my 4th all-grain over to secondary last night and it's
>> also the second brew I've made with Nottingham. It's also cloudy as
>> hell, just like the first Nottingham batch. I tried it in place of
>> WLP005 just for yucks. With the White Labs yeast my beer is never
>> cloudy (this side of an occasional chill haze).
>>
>> Does Nottingham want a really chilly secondary to precipitate this
>> stuff out? Does it have anything to do with the superfine sediment
>> Nottingham generates?
>
> All my recipes are partials and Nottingham is used in close to a third of
> those. Never had the problem you're having. Nottingham has always done a
> fine job of settling out and my secondaries are done in the low 70s most of
> the time. The Windsor has taken a little longer to settle but the recipes I
> use with that yeast all benefit from a longer secondary.
>
> Mark R
>
Hmm. The current secondary is sitting at 68F. The last one was right
around there. Guess I'll wait and see what happens.
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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Date: 24 Jun 2006 13:15:08
From: David M. Taylor
Subject: Re: Nottingham -- cloudy?
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"John Bleichert" <syborg@earthlink.net > wrote in message
news:MSQmg.10782$o4.3787@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Hello All
>
> I just racked my 4th all-grain over to secondary last night and it's
> also the second brew I've made with Nottingham. It's also cloudy as
> hell, just like the first Nottingham batch. I tried it in place of
> WLP005 just for yucks. With the White Labs yeast my beer is never
> cloudy (this side of an occasional chill haze).
I just made an American Brown Ale with Nottingham (I usually use WLP001
California Ale), and I too noticed that it is extraordinarily cloudy. Maybe
it's not the fastest flocculator. You and I might try adding some gelatin
to the secondary next time around, I've seen gelatin work wonders on yeast
in the past.
--
Dave
"Just a drink, a little drink, and I'll be feeling GOOooOOooOOooD!" --
Genesis, 1973-ish
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 16:45:01
From: David Edge
Subject: Re: Nottingham -- cloudy?
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On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 12:10:20 GMT, John Bleichert
<syborg@earthlink.net > wrote:
>Hello All
>
>I just racked my 4th all-grain over to secondary last night and it's
>also the second brew I've made with Nottingham. It's also cloudy as
>hell, just like the first Nottingham batch. I tried it in place of
>WLP005 just for yucks. With the White Labs yeast my beer is never
>cloudy (this side of an occasional chill haze).
>
>Does Nottingham want a really chilly secondary to precipitate this
>stuff out?
Nottingham is the top dried yeast in the UK (most if not all of the
'own brands' are Nottingham too). It has made its reputation for
neutral flavour, fast clearing and a rock-solid deposit on the bottom
of the bottle - and few UK home brewers have (or need) temperature
control.
However:
1) I learn from a friendly local micro that it was almost impossible
to get a few weeks ago
2) We had, most unusually, a batch that took a couple of weeks to
clear in secondary
so maybe there have been batch problems at the factory?
David Edge, Derby, UK
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Date: 25 Jun 2006 19:32:51
From: Ricky
Subject: Re: Nottingham -- cloudy?
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<major snippage >
I do extract/steeping and the majority of my favorites use Nottingham,
and I've never had a problem with cloudiness, except for my last
batches. One was an "American Light" swill clone and the other was an
APA...the APA was clear as a bell right out of the 10 day primary, but
the AM. Light was cloudy cloudy cloudy. Brewed on the same day,
fermented together, same yeast....they are still in secondary right now
so I'll see how the cloudy one clears over the next several days. I
have 3 of my 5 taps floating right now, so it just might have to go in
cloudy and clear up while on tap! :-)
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Date: 26 Jun 2006 17:16:52
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: Nottingham -- cloudy?
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Ricky <rickynickolson@gmail.com > wrote:
> <major snippage>
> I do extract/steeping and the majority of my favorites use Nottingham,
> and I've never had a problem with cloudiness, except for my last
> batches. One was an "American Light" swill clone and the other was an
> APA...the APA was clear as a bell right out of the 10 day primary, but
> the AM. Light was cloudy cloudy cloudy. Brewed on the same day,
> fermented together, same yeast....they are still in secondary right now
> so I'll see how the cloudy one clears over the next several days. I
> have 3 of my 5 taps floating right now, so it just might have to go in
> cloudy and clear up while on tap! :-)
>
Hmm. As somebody else has noted, perhaps this is a problem with
"current" Nottingham batches. I have a rye pale ale in secondary right
now, we'll see if it clears.... I love the taste of Nottingham yeast,
though, or rather the untaste of it. Nice and dry, too.
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
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