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Date: 16 Aug 2006 03:41:38
From: Dick Adams
Subject: No-boil extract brewing
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Sometime ago I read an article which stated that extract brewers
no longer boiled their wort. I contacted the author to learn
how one added bittering and flavoring hops without boiling. He
retracted by writing he was refering to 'no-boil' extracts which
already had the hops added.
Tonight I came across http://www.highgravitybrew.com which
lists Coopers, John Bull, Muntons, Ironmaster, BrewFerm,
Brewmart, and EDME as 'no-boil' extract kits.
My first reaction is irritation since I'm setup to brew all-grain
this Fall because I'm tired of my brew pots being scorched with
LME by my electric range.
My second reaction is skepticism. The last time I brewed a John
Bull London Porter (maybe 3-1/2 to 4 years ago) my child bride
helped me. She is hyper-compliant and follows written instructions
religiously. I am certain we boiled for a hour! She's asleep so
I can't ask her now.
My next reaction was curiousity. Even in an all-grain brew, what
does an hour long boil do for you besides the opportunity to add
hops?
I can tell the difference between Dogfish's 60 minute and 90
minute IPA's. So I know the boil does something very positive.
Dick
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Date: 15 Aug 2006 21:58:55
From: Sean
Subject: Re: No-boil extract brewing
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Dick Adams wrote:
> Sometime ago I read an article which stated that extract brewers
> no longer boiled their wort. I contacted the author to learn
> how one added bittering and flavoring hops without boiling. He
> retracted by writing he was refering to 'no-boil' extracts which
> already had the hops added.
>
> Tonight I came across http://www.highgravitybrew.com which
> lists Coopers, John Bull, Muntons, Ironmaster, BrewFerm,
> Brewmart, and EDME as 'no-boil' extract kits.
>
> My first reaction is irritation since I'm setup to brew all-grain
> this Fall because I'm tired of my brew pots being scorched with
> LME by my electric range.
>
> My second reaction is skepticism. The last time I brewed a John
> Bull London Porter (maybe 3-1/2 to 4 years ago) my child bride
> helped me. She is hyper-compliant and follows written instructions
> religiously. I am certain we boiled for a hour! She's asleep so
> I can't ask her now.
>
> My next reaction was curiousity. Even in an all-grain brew, what
> does an hour long boil do for you besides the opportunity to add
> hops?
>
> I can tell the difference between Dogfish's 60 minute and 90
> minute IPA's. So I know the boil does something very positive.
>
> Dick
Well, two things, at least. The first reaction is isomerism
due to boiling the hops, thereby allowing for bittering. Secondly, the
extraction/precipitation of hot break proteins. Hot and cold break
protiens are both shown to be beneficial to yeast nutrition. As well,
there is the sanitation issue. As I'm sure you know with your
experience with honey, even high concentrations of sugar can ferment
over time in their shipping containers, especially if some
crystallization has occured to lessen the concentration of sugar in the
liquid portion. You can kill existing yeasts and any microbes that
could contaminate along the way.
I hear that the practice of not boiling extract derived wort
is common in the UK so it is difficult for me to criticize. After all,
I'm not drinking their beer. For me, there was a marked difference from
high gravity boils (with make-up water), to full wort boils using
extract and then to all grain.
The next thing that I think you'll experience is what you'd
like to prevent. Caramelization will occur during longer boils. I've
noticed an increase in unfermentable sugars from caramelization in
higher gravity brews that I've boiled for an extended period. (My
compensation was in the recipes, high alpha hops to offset).
I strongly recommend moving to an outdoor propane burner
for boiling. Electric ranges are not the best for brewing and brewing
is not he best for electric ranges, especially at higher volumes. It
tends to be excessively hard on the burners.
I have made a number of braggots with hopped extracts and a
short boil, adding honey near the end and resting above 160F for twenty
minutes or so. It works well. These brews were complex enough with
spice additions in the boil and secondaries so I've never experienced
perceptable DMS problems with them. A good rolling boil in all grain
brewing will take care of that with no problem. I'll take a shot at
saying that you'll be happy with the jump to all grain. Other than the
time allotment I've never heard of anyone that didn't really like it
(even if the pressures of everyday life didn't make them choose to use
extracts more than they would like).
Hope this helps,
Sean
P.S. My earlier reply asking if your dor treated gear
frenzy was in hopes of a refferal to a proper professional for myself.
Much to the dismay of SWMBO, I've been fabricating what I want. It's
cheaper, but the time spent .................
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Date: 15 Aug 2006 20:58:29
From: Sean
Subject: Re: No-boil extract brewing
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Dick Adams wrote:
> Sometime ago I read an article which stated that extract brewers
> no longer boiled their wort. I contacted the author to learn
> how one added bittering and flavoring hops without boiling. He
> retracted by writing he was refering to 'no-boil' extracts which
> already had the hops added.
>
> Tonight I came across http://www.highgravitybrew.com which
> lists Coopers, John Bull, Muntons, Ironmaster, BrewFerm,
> Brewmart, and EDME as 'no-boil' extract kits.
>
> My first reaction is irritation since I'm setup to brew all-grain
> this Fall because I'm tired of my brew pots being scorched with
> LME by my electric range.
>
> My second reaction is skepticism. The last time I brewed a John
> Bull London Porter (maybe 3-1/2 to 4 years ago) my child bride
> helped me. She is hyper-compliant and follows written instructions
> religiously. I am certain we boiled for a hour! She's asleep so
> I can't ask her now.
>
> My next reaction was curiousity. Even in an all-grain brew, what
> does an hour long boil do for you besides the opportunity to add
> hops?
>
> I can tell the difference between Dogfish's 60 minute and 90
> minute IPA's. So I know the boil does something very positive.
>
> Dick
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Date: 16 Aug 2006 08:19:01
From: MarkMc
Subject: Re: No-boil extract brewing
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>From speaking to a few people in the home brew trade in the UK, home
brewers seem to fall in to a couple of categories;
a) Those who want to make 'cheap' 'beer' to save money buying it in the
pub so that they can get drunk cheaper and so want to make 'beer' as
quickly and cheaply as possible. Beer =="something that get's you
drunk".
and
b) Those who I'd call craft brewers, who want to produce quality,
crafted beers, either because there are not enough decent beers for
sale in the vacinity (sadly widespread in the UK these days) or purely
for the fun, skill and pleasure of it in the same way people bake at
home.
and, thinking about it;
c) those who'd like to make better beer, but don't yet know enough
about achieving that or without the bank balance/understanding wife or
space for the equipment required.
Putting on his flame retardent suit.......I think it follows that the
'no boil' type stuff is generally employed by groups "a" and "c" above.
I generally find that with most things, not just brewing, is that
people in general "can't be bothered" with anything that takes any
amount or time, thought or preparation.
Sailing is a good example here. My neighbour has a speed boat, but
he's bored with it. I invited him for a sail on my dinghy, but he said
it sounded like "you needed to think too much to sail a boat", whereas
in his speed boat he just drives it where he wants to go!
That's one of the things that makes sailing so appealing to me! And
that's also quite a dangerous attitude to have towards the sea and
mother nature in my opinion......
I know, it takes all sorts......
Regards,
Mark
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Date: 17 Aug 2006 04:32:49
From: Dick Adams
Subject: Re: No-boil extract brewing
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Dick Adams <rdadams@smart.net > wrote:
> Sometime ago I read an article which stated that extract brewers
> no longer boiled their wort. I contacted the author to learn
> how one added bittering and flavoring hops without boiling. He
> retracted by writing he was refering to 'no-boil' extracts which
> already had the hops added.
>
> Tonight I came across http://www.highgravitybrew.com which
> lists Coopers, John Bull, Muntons, Ironmaster, BrewFerm,
> Brewmart, and EDME as 'no-boil' extract kits. ....
Let me ask the questions this way:
1. When an extract is hopped, does it not mean the extract
has already been boiled through the hot and cold breaks?
2. If you boil a hopped extract, do you lose any of the
original hops taste?
I know all-grain is the way to go and I'm (almost) setup to
start in late-September to early-ober. I'll be better off
with all-grain since I'm both a malt head and a hop head.
My favorite beers are so thick you could have a half liter
and call it lunch. :)
Dick
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Date: 17 Aug 2006 10:38:33
From: Larry Bristol
Subject: Re: No-boil extract brewing
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Dick Adams wrote:
> 1. When an extract is hopped, does it not mean the extract
> has already been boiled through the hot and cold breaks?
My first reaction to the question was "Yes", but you know, the only real way
to find out is to ask the manufacturer. For all we know, bitterness may
have been achieved by adding hop extracts without ever boiling it at all!
> 2. If you boil a hopped extract, do you lose any of the
> original hops taste?
My first reaction, again, was "Yes", but this is making an assumption about
the manufacturing process used. If they made the hopped extract by
concentrating wort "as we know how to make it", then any further boiling
would have the tendancy to drive out hop aroma and flavor.
--
Larry Bristol --- The Double Luck
http://www.doubleluck.com
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Date: 17 Aug 2006 18:37:58
From: Dick Adams
Subject: Re: No-boil extract brewing
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Larry Bristol <larry.remove@remove.doubleluck.com > wrote:
> Dick Adams wrote:
>> 1. When an extract is hopped, does it not mean the extract
>> has already been boiled through the hot and cold breaks?
> My first reaction to the question was "Yes", but you know, the
> only real way to find out is to ask the manufacturer. For all
> we know, bitterness may have been achieved by adding hop
> extracts without ever boiling it at all!
>> 2. If you boil a hopped extract, do you lose any of the
>> original hops taste?
> My first reaction, again, was "Yes", but this is making an
> assumption about the manufacturing process used. If they
> made the hopped extract by concentrating wort "as we know
> how to make it", then any further boiling would have the
> tendancy to drive out hop aroma and flavor.
My thoughts exactly! Thanks for the reply.
Dick
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Date: 17 Aug 2006 19:10:46
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: No-boil extract brewing
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On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 04:32:49 -0000, <rdadams@smart.net > wrote:
> Dick Adams <rdadams@smart.net> wrote:
>
>> Sometime ago I read an article which stated that extract brewers
>> no longer boiled their wort. I contacted the author to learn
>> how one added bittering and flavoring hops without boiling. He
>> retracted by writing he was refering to 'no-boil' extracts which
>> already had the hops added.
>>
>> Tonight I came across http://www.highgravitybrew.com which
>> lists Coopers, John Bull, Muntons, Ironmaster, BrewFerm,
>> Brewmart, and EDME as 'no-boil' extract kits. ....
>
> Let me ask the questions this way:
> 1. When an extract is hopped, does it not mean the extract
> has already been boiled through the hot and cold breaks?
All extract is boiled through the hot break, whether it's hopped or not. I
don't know for sure if they do a cold break.
> 2. If you boil a hopped extract, do you lose any of the
> original hops taste?
You will most likely lose any flavor/aroma hops that they have included, if
they included any. However, generally you are putting your own back in
when you boil. You should not lose any bitterness by boiling it.
John.
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Date: 16 Aug 2006 19:31:09
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: No-boil extract brewing
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On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 03:41:38 -0000, <rdadams@smart.net > wrote:
> Sometime ago I read an article which stated that extract brewers
> no longer boiled their wort.
Some of them don't. Personally, I always do a boil when I make extract
beers. That's because I like controlling the recipe rather than letting
the manufacturer decide what my beer will taste like.
> I contacted the author to learn
> how one added bittering and flavoring hops without boiling. He
> retracted by writing he was refering to 'no-boil' extracts which
> already had the hops added.
Yeah, basically a no-boil kit is one where the entire profile of the beer:
malt flavor, OG, bitterness, aroma has all been decided for you by the
manufacturer. All you do is pick your yeast and ferment it. It's kind of
like the brewing equivalent of a microwave TV dinner. Sure, it's really
easy to make, but there's not much opportunity to personalize it.
Some times all you want is the microwaveable plastic wrapped salisbury
steak, other times you may want to head out to the BBQ grill with your
homemade marinade.
> Tonight I came across http://www.highgravitybrew.com which
> lists Coopers, John Bull, Muntons, Ironmaster, BrewFerm,
> Brewmart, and EDME as 'no-boil' extract kits.
They may make no-boil extract kits, but not everything they make is a
no-boil kit.
> My first reaction is irritation since I'm setup to brew all-grain
> this Fall because I'm tired of my brew pots being scorched with
> LME by my electric range.
IMO, it's up to you, but personally I would get really bored doing nothing
but making no-boil kits all the time. One of the biggest joys I get
from the hobby is being able to make a beer that is "mine". IE, tweak
a recipe (or design one from scratch) that is going to come out just the
way I want it. If all I ever did was make no-boil kits, I'd have a hard
time justifying it as a hobby to myself rather than just going out and
buying commercial beer. Sure, it'd be cheaper than commercial beer, but for
me a lot of the fun and personal satisfaction of making it myself would be
gone.
> My second reaction is skepticism. The last time I brewed a John
> Bull London Porter (maybe 3-1/2 to 4 years ago) my child bride
> helped me. She is hyper-compliant and follows written instructions
> religiously. I am certain we boiled for a hour! She's asleep so
> I can't ask her now.
You probably didn't make one of their no-boil kits.
> My next reaction was curiousity. Even in an all-grain brew, what
> does an hour long boil do for you besides the opportunity to add
> hops?
Besides adding hops (which implies that you have control over how much and
what kind), it also serves to drive off additional water to get down to
your target volume and create the hot break.
> I can tell the difference between Dogfish's 60 minute and 90
> minute IPA's. So I know the boil does something very positive.
In Dogfish's case, the longer boil concentrates the wort so that the OG
is higher. Therefore, the 90 minute IPA has a higher OG and ABV than the
60 minute IPA. Also, they add different amounts of hops to the two so the
IBUs are different. IMO, they're really completely different beers. The
60 to me is a really good IPA. I think of the 90 as a lot more like a
barleywine. I haven't had the 120 yet, but I've got a bottle of it in
the fridge at home (along with a bottle of the WorldWide Stout).
John.
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