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Date: 08 Aug 2006 13:32:21
From: Peter L. Berghold
Subject: No signs of life in the fermenter... any hope?
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Hi folks,
Just put up a batch of German Ale the other day and so far there isn't
any fermentation action going on. Looks like the yeast I bought mail
order is dead! Both vials!
Is it safe to add another inculcation of yeast or have I lost the whole
batch?
- --
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Peter L. Berghold Peter@Berghold.Net
"Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it."
AIM: redcowdawg Yahoo IM: blue_cowdawg ICQ: 11455958
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Date: 08 Aug 2006 18:12:38
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: No signs of life in the fermenter... any hope?
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On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 13:32:21 -0400, <peter@berghold.net > wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> Just put up a batch of German Ale the other day and so far there isn't
> any fermentation action going on. Looks like the yeast I bought mail
> order is dead! Both vials!
>
> Is it safe to add another inculcation of yeast or have I lost the whole
> batch?
My rule of thumb is that if there is no visible signs of fermentation within
36 hours, pitch more yeast. I like to keep packets of dry yeast on hand
as my "emergency backup" option. Dry yeast is a lot more fool proof than
liquid, and also stores better. IMO, it makes a good choice for backup
yeast.
If you want help diagnosing why the current yeast didn't start, let us
know the OG of the beer, what type (and how many) of yeast you originally
pitched, as well as how you aerated? If you used liquid yeast, did you make
a starter? Also, what is the current ambient air temp where the fermenter
is? How long has it been since you originally pithced the yeast? All of that
(and probably a couple other things I forgot) will have an effect on the lag
time.
John.
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 10:15:38
From: Peter L. Berghold
Subject: Re: No signs of life in the fermenter... any hope?
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>
> If you want help diagnosing why the current yeast didn't start, let us
> know the OG of the beer, what type (and how many) of yeast you originally
It was a 10 gallon batch loosely patterned after a German oberfest
beer. I say loosely because I'm not going to lager this and I'm using
White Labs German Ale/Kolsch yeast. It is the first extract with
grains I've done in a couple of years having switched to all grain some
time ago. Hey... I wanted simple this time.. this batch has been
anything but.
14 lbs German Pils Extract
1 lb Cara Red
1 lb Crystal 40L
1 lb light DME <--- my original calculations showed my OG too low...
read on...
After I cooled this down to 80F I took a hygrometer reading and after
adjusting for temperature I got an OG of 1.060. Higher than what I had
originally calculated!
Ambient temperature in the room is around 75F.
The batch was split between two carboys and a vial of yeast was put in
each.
> pitched, as well as how you aerated? If you used liquid yeast, did you make
> a starter?
I did not make a starter.
> Also, what is the current ambient air temp where the fermenter
73-75F
> is? How long has it been since you originally pithced the yeast? All of that
> (and probably a couple other things I forgot) will have an effect on the lag
> time.
>
It has now been 50 hours since I pitched the yeast. And so far no signs
of life. I think I'm going to go visit my LHBS and pick up two more
vials of yeast. If they don't have German Ale/Kolsch yeast I'll look
for something similar.
This is the first time I've had "failure to launch" since I started home
brewing 5 years ago. I guess it was bound to happen sometime.
- --
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Peter L. Berghold Peter@Berghold.Net
"Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it."
AIM: redcowdawg Yahoo IM: blue_cowdawg ICQ: 11455958
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 15:28:24
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: No signs of life in the fermenter... any hope?
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On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 10:15:38 -0400, <peter@berghold.net > wrote:
> It has now been 50 hours since I pitched the yeast. And so far no signs
> of life. I think I'm going to go visit my LHBS and pick up two more
> vials of yeast. If they don't have German Ale/Kolsch yeast I'll look
> for something similar.
Everything seems reasonable, from what you said. Not making a starter
shouldn't cause the fermentation to fail, but it can cause really long
lag times. I wouldn't expect 50 hours though. The temp is kind of high.
How closely have you been watching the beer? It's doubtful with a OG
that high, but there's a possibility that it fermented out really quickly
in the mid 70's and you just missed the visible activity. I'm assuming
there isn't a ring of "beer stone" around the top from the krausen. If
you're not sure you can check the gravity again to see if anything has
happened.
IMO, it does sound like your yeast was DOA though. Kind of strange for
two vials to both do it, but maybe something happened during shipping
and they were both delivered on the same truck.
When you go to the LHBS, tell them that the first two vials they sold
you failed to start. Maybe they'll give you a discount on the replacement
yeast (maybe even give them to you for free if it's a really good LHBS).
John.
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 14:15:32
From: Peter L. Berghold
Subject: Re: No signs of life in the fermenter... any hope?
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>
> When you go to the LHBS, tell them that the first two vials they sold
> you failed to start. Maybe they'll give you a discount on the replacement
> yeast (maybe even give them to you for free if it's a really good LHBS).
>
I actually bought these two mail order so with the high temps that we've
been having around the country I'd say it is exceedingly likely the
yeast died in transit. UPS + yeast = dead yeast.
What I'm really lamenting is my previous supplier went out of business.
He used to ship yeast the same way that Omaha Steaks ships their meat.
Styrofoam container with an ice pack. This was my first order with this
mail order house... so there's a lesson learned here.
Just got off the telephone with a LHBS and they have German Ale/Kolsch
yeast in stock. Running out to get some.
- --
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Peter L. Berghold Peter@Berghold.Net
"Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it."
AIM: redcowdawg Yahoo IM: blue_cowdawg ICQ: 11455958
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 07:37:38
From: Phil
Subject: Re: No signs of life in the fermenter... any hope?
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Hey Peter
Sorry you're having a slow start on this beer. What was the
temperature of your wort when you pitched your yeast. Was it 80
degrees F? And how accurate is your thermometer? It's possible that
your wort may have been a bit too warm and it killed the yeast (or
shocked them). Also, did you aerate at all? If not, the combination
of pitching warm and a lack of oxygen probably wasn't enough to make
them want to work. You should go give those 2 carboys a good shaking
and rouse those lazy yeasties.
Sounds delicious too, so I hope it works out for you.
Phil
Peter L. Berghold wrote:
>
> It was a 10 gallon batch loosely patterned after a German oberfest
> beer. I say loosely because I'm not going to lager this and I'm using
> White Labs German Ale/Kolsch yeast. It is the first extract with
> grains I've done in a couple of years having switched to all grain some
> time ago. Hey... I wanted simple this time.. this batch has been
> anything but.
>
> 14 lbs German Pils Extract
> 1 lb Cara Red
> 1 lb Crystal 40L
> 1 lb light DME <--- my original calculations showed my OG too low...
> read on...
>
> After I cooled this down to 80F I took a hygrometer reading and after
> adjusting for temperature I got an OG of 1.060. Higher than what I had
> originally calculated!
>
> Ambient temperature in the room is around 75F.
>
> The batch was split between two carboys and a vial of yeast was put in
> each.
>
>
> > pitched, as well as how you aerated? If you used liquid yeast, did you make
> > a starter?
>
> I did not make a starter.
>
> > Also, what is the current ambient air temp where the fermenter
>
> 73-75F
>
> > is? How long has it been since you originally pithced the yeast? All of that
> > (and probably a couple other things I forgot) will have an effect on the lag
> > time.
> >
>
> It has now been 50 hours since I pitched the yeast. And so far no signs
> of life. I think I'm going to go visit my LHBS and pick up two more
> vials of yeast. If they don't have German Ale/Kolsch yeast I'll look
> for something similar.
>
>
> This is the first time I've had "failure to launch" since I started home
> brewing 5 years ago. I guess it was bound to happen sometime.
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 15:30:21
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: No signs of life in the fermenter... any hope?
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On 9 Aug 2006 07:37:38 -0700, <clarkeheadbrew@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Hey Peter
>
> Sorry you're having a slow start on this beer. What was the
> temperature of your wort when you pitched your yeast. Was it 80
> degrees F? And how accurate is your thermometer? It's possible that
> your wort may have been a bit too warm and it killed the yeast (or
> shocked them).
I think you'd have to be >100F in order to kill the yeast. It is possible
that they got stuck on a UPS truck somewhere and sat in 100F+ for long
enough to kill them before he even bought them from the store.
John.
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 10:54:51
From: Peter L. Berghold
Subject: Re: No signs of life in the fermenter... any hope?
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Phil wrote:
> Was it 80
> degrees F? And how accurate is your thermometer? It's possible that
> your wort may have been a bit too warm and it killed the yeast (or
> shocked them).
I compared the thermometer to two others I have in my toolbox. One of
them an "instant read" thermometer and they were all within a degree of
one another. The one I used on brew day is brand new.
It was 80F on the dot when I pitched according to the thermometer.
Being a former calibration technician and being pessimistic about
measuring devices as a result I'd say the range that it could have been
is from 78F to 82F.
The only aeration I did was to shake the carboy a bit before pitching.
Someday I'll invest in one of those fancy-schmancy compressed air
thingies that I see in the brew supply catalogs.
>
> Sounds delicious too, so I hope it works out for you.
>
>
The worst of all this is I made this batch to commemorate my 50th
birthday and I plan to serve it for my party! If this is what turning 50
is all about I'm in trouble! :-D
- --
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Peter L. Berghold Peter@Berghold.Net
"Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it."
AIM: redcowdawg Yahoo IM: blue_cowdawg ICQ: 11455958
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Date: 09 Aug 2006 15:32:09
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: No signs of life in the fermenter... any hope?
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On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 10:54:51 -0400, <peter@berghold.net > wrote:
> The only aeration I did was to shake the carboy a bit before pitching.
> Someday I'll invest in one of those fancy-schmancy compressed air
> thingies that I see in the brew supply catalogs.
IMO, get a Mix-Stir aerator. They're cheaper/easier than the compressed
air thingies, and do a much better job than just shaking the carboy (which
really doesn't aerate very much unless you shake for a long time).
John.
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Date: 10 Aug 2006 12:06:43
From: Peter L. Berghold
Subject: There's a whole lotta frothing going on! (was Re: No signs of life
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Pitched more yeast fresh from the LHBS yesterday. Checked on it this
morning and there's a whole lotta frothing going on!
Looks like this batch is well underway...
- --
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Peter L. Berghold Peter@Berghold.Net
"Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it."
AIM: redcowdawg Yahoo IM: blue_cowdawg ICQ: 11455958
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