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Date: 03 Jun 2006 13:58:27
From: Dick Adams
Subject: Mash now, boil later
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Because I have a 5-gal Gott Cooler for mashing, I am limited
to 5-gal batches and partial mashs for 10-gal batches. So I
was looking for a much larger cooler for a mash tun.
My child bride asked if I could mash now and boil later. Her
question was "Why not mash for five gallons, save it in a pot,
do another mash, and combine them for the boil?" She added
the idea of mashing during the week and boiling on the weekend.
I don't think that works, but I didn't know the correct reasons
to give her other than it's twice the labor.
Dick
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Date: 03 Jun 2006 23:28:16
From: tombiasi
Subject: Re: Mash now, boil later
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"Dick Adams" <rdadams@smart.net > wrote in message
news:12835c3m43k310f@corp.supernews.com...
> Because I have a 5-gal Gott Cooler for mashing, I am limited
> to 5-gal batches and partial mashs for 10-gal batches. So I
> was looking for a much larger cooler for a mash tun.
>
> My child bride asked if I could mash now and boil later. Her
> question was "Why not mash for five gallons, save it in a pot,
> do another mash, and combine them for the boil?" She added
> the idea of mashing during the week and boiling on the weekend.
>
> I don't think that works, but I didn't know the correct reasons
> to give her other than it's twice the labor.
>
> Dick
That nice sweet wort is waiting to start fermenting. It will do so with any
wild yeast pickup in your process.
Yes, there are wild yeasts all over the place.
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Date: 03 Jun 2006 19:42:32
From: Sean
Subject: Re: Mash now, boil later
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> On Sat, 03 Jun 2006 13:58:27 -0000, <rdadams@smart.net> wrote:
> Some people will mash in the evening and then boil the next day, but
> I'm not a big fan of it. I definitely wouldn't mash during the week
> and then wait until the weekend to boil. You're going to have all
> sorts of bacteria/infection issues. IMO, do all of your brewing at
> the same time. Trying to cut corners or spread the process out over
> several days is just going to get you in trouble.
>
>
> John.
Besides these sanitation issues, unboiled wort could still have some
enzymes left that will just keep working and give you a batch that is
more fermentable than you'd like. Mashout could help with that, but
unless you froze it after the sparge, I can't see how you could
overcome the infection problem (unless you have a clean
room----microchip factory style).
Sorry for the negativity dude,
Sean
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Date: 03 Jun 2006 21:38:29
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Mash now, boil later
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On Sat, 03 Jun 2006 13:58:27 -0000, <rdadams@smart.net > wrote:
> Because I have a 5-gal Gott Cooler for mashing, I am limited
> to 5-gal batches and partial mashs for 10-gal batches. So I
> was looking for a much larger cooler for a mash tun.
>
> My child bride asked if I could mash now and boil later. Her
> question was "Why not mash for five gallons, save it in a pot,
> do another mash, and combine them for the boil?" She added
> the idea of mashing during the week and boiling on the weekend.
>
> I don't think that works, but I didn't know the correct reasons
> to give her other than it's twice the labor.
Some people will mash in the evening and then boil the next day, but
I'm not a big fan of it. I definitely wouldn't mash during the week
and then wait until the weekend to boil. You're going to have all
sorts of bacteria/infection issues. IMO, do all of your brewing at
the same time. Trying to cut corners or spread the process out over
several days is just going to get you in trouble.
John.
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Date: 03 Jun 2006 17:25:37
From: C.D.Sparks
Subject: Re: Mash now, boil later
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What I did when I had an emergency crop up right as I was starting to boil
was I transfered both boil pots (10gal each) to the fermenters witch are
plastic put them both in the fermentation fridgs. set to normal they chilled
down while I was busy. The folling week I got around to doing the boil I
didn't have a bit of a problem the beer turned out to be one of my best .
Wort is just basicly suger water I figured since I was going to boil it
anyway there would be no harm done.
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Date: 03 Jun 2006 21:40:12
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Mash now, boil later
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On Sat, 03 Jun 2006 17:25:37 GMT, <ksparks@cfl.rr.com > wrote:
> What I did when I had an emergency crop up right as I was starting to boil
> was I transfered both boil pots (10gal each) to the fermenters witch are
> plastic put them both in the fermentation fridgs. set to normal they chilled
> down while I was busy. The folling week I got around to doing the boil I
> didn't have a bit of a problem the beer turned out to be one of my best .
> Wort is just basicly suger water I figured since I was going to boil it
> anyway there would be no harm done.
You were lucky. Letting "sugar water" sit around for a week is just begging
for bacteria and/or wild yeast to start fermenting the wort.
John.
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Date: 05 Jun 2006 12:59:04
From: Joel
Subject: Re: Mash now, boil later
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <spam@shagg.net > wrote:
>On Sat, 03 Jun 2006 17:25:37 GMT, <ksparks@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>> What I did when I had an emergency crop up right as I was starting to boil
>> was I transfered both boil pots (10gal each) to the fermenters witch are
>> plastic put them both in the fermentation fridgs. set to normal they chilled
>> down while I was busy. The folling week I got around to doing the boil I
>> didn't have a bit of a problem the beer turned out to be one of my best .
>> Wort is just basicly suger water I figured since I was going to boil it
>> anyway there would be no harm done.
>
>You were lucky. Letting "sugar water" sit around for a week is just begging
>for bacteria and/or wild yeast to start fermenting the wort.
So all those people making starters ("sugar water") and using
them later are begging for bacteria and/or wild yeast?
As long as the wort and container gets to pasteurization
temperature and is securely covered, there is no more risk than
making a starter (or any other food product) ahead of time.
Somebody in another thread mentioned people being overly
paranoid...
--
Joel Plutchak
"...illiterate Abyssinians did it for 5000 years, you can do it too."
- Guy Gregory on brewing beer
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Date: 12 Jun 2006 05:38:38
From: Tom Biasi
Subject: Re: Mash now, boil later
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> So all those people making starters ("sugar water") and using
> them later are begging for bacteria and/or wild yeast?
> As long as the wort and container gets to pasteurization
> temperature and is securely covered, there is no more risk than
> making a starter (or any other food product) ahead of time.
> Somebody in another thread mentioned people being overly
> paranoid...
> --
> Joel Plutchak
>
>
I think the issue was mashing and letting it sit.
Sure, boiling the wort will kill everything but flavor changes wont die.
We were not talking about canning the wort.
In a starter the yeast are dominant and a starter isn't kept around until
the yeast falls off.
Tom
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Date: 12 Jun 2006 16:55:32
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Mash now, boil later
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On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:38:38 -0400, <tombiasi@********optonline.net > wrote:
>> So all those people making starters ("sugar water") and using
>> them later are begging for bacteria and/or wild yeast?
Absolutely not, and I never said that. It doesn't surprise me that you
don't understand the difference though.
>> As long as the wort and container gets to pasteurization
>> temperature and is securely covered, there is no more risk than
>> making a starter (or any other food product) ahead of time.
Sure there is.
John.
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Date: 12 Jun 2006 17:11:14
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Mash now, boil later
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On 12 Jun 2006 16:55:32 GMT, <spam@shagg.net > wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:38:38 -0400, <tombiasi@********optonline.net> wrote:
Sorry Tom, bad quoting on my part. Obviously I was responding to Joel's
post and not yours.
>>> So all those people making starters ("sugar water") and using
>>> them later are begging for bacteria and/or wild yeast?
>
> Absolutely not, and I never said that. It doesn't surprise me that you
> don't understand the difference though.
>
>>> As long as the wort and container gets to pasteurization
>>> temperature and is securely covered, there is no more risk than
>>> making a starter (or any other food product) ahead of time.
>
> Sure there is.
>
>
> John.
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Date: 12 Jun 2006 19:39:06
From: Tom Biasi
Subject: Re: Mash now, boil later
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"John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" <spam@shagg.net > wrote in message
news:slrne8r842.5r6.spam@weizen.shagg.net...
> On 12 Jun 2006 16:55:32 GMT, <spam@shagg.net> wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 05:38:38 -0400, <tombiasi@********optonline.net>
>> wrote:
>
> Sorry Tom, bad quoting on my part. Obviously I was responding to Joel's
> post and not yours.
I saw that.
No problem here.
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Date: 12 Jun 2006 12:56:28
From: Joel
Subject: Re: Mash now, boil later
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In article <wCajg.307$JS3.31@fe09.lga >,
Tom Biasi <tombiasi@********optonline.net > wrote:
>> So all those people making starters ("sugar water") and using
>> them later are begging for bacteria and/or wild yeast?
>> As long as the wort and container gets to pasteurization
>> temperature and is securely covered, there is no more risk than
>> making a starter (or any other food product) ahead of time.
>
>I think the issue was mashing and letting it sit.
Yes, mashing at temperatures above pasteurization.
All bacteria dead.
>Sure, boiling the wort will kill everything but flavor changes wont die.
Irrelevant.
>We were not talking about canning the wort.
>In a starter the yeast are dominant and a starter isn't kept around until
>the yeast falls off.
I was responding to the statement (that you snipped)
that letting a sugar solution sit around was a sure way
to make bacteria happy. People make up wort for starters
and let them sit for weeks before pitching yeast, so there
is no yeast involved.
--
Joel Plutchak
"Things deserve to get stirred up." - Michael Balzary
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Date: 05 Jun 2006 06:17:12
From: gephro
Subject: Re: Mash now, boil later
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Dick Adams wrote:
> question was "Why not mash for five gallons, save it in a pot,
> do another mash, and combine them for the boil?" She added
> the idea of mashing during the week and boiling on the weekend.
I frequently (prefer, actually) mash in the evening (Friday) and let it
rest for the overnight. I wake up on Saturday and drain/sparge and boil
as usual. The beer produced doing it this way has been great, and
others have agreed. Mostly I've done this with pales and wheats - I
suppose it's possible that you might get some harshness doing this with
roasted/heavily roasted grains, but I'm sure I'll try it when the time
comes.
That said, I've also had a couple of other related experiences that may
give you some insight...
The 24 hour mash: Nope - it won't work. I had to leave my mash sitting
for 24 hours once and while it was okay the next morning (after about
10 hours) it was very sour at 24. I breifly considered making a sour
wheat beer with it (it was a wheat) and began to sparge it, only to
find out that an extended mash like this will make it stick like I've
never seen before. I dumped the whole thing. Remember that until you
boil the wort, nothing is sanitized so there is a good base for
bacteria to run wild.
Mash - > Sparge -> Boil and leave it on the back porch overnight (about
10 hours): This worked fine and the beer turned out great. I collected
all my wort and then brought it to a boil and put the lid on and cut
the heat. I clamped the lid shut with vice-grips and put a towel over
it (since my pot lid has holes in the top for a thermometer) and just
let it cool through the night. This was cool but not freezing weather.
Next day I boiled it as usual and the beer was fine.
You don't indicate exactly how long you want to leave it for, but I
would not recommend mashing any longer than 10 hours and if you do the
mash-boil-rest thing, I wouldn't let that sit for more than 12 hours
unless it was for the sake of experimentation. I would guess that the
mash-boil-rest method is the longest lasting of the two if the weather
is cool, but I've never pushed it that far. The boil with kill off
everything in it and denature your enzymes making it good for storing
for at least a little while (like canning). Even if it does start to
turn, you will re-boil it anyway and just have a sour flavor profile to
start with, which may be beneficial to certian styles.
--Jeff
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Date: 13 Jun 2006 14:36:30
From: neal
Subject: Re: Mash now, boil later
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Dick Adams wrote:
> Because I have a 5-gal Gott Cooler for mashing, I am limited
> to 5-gal batches and partial mashs for 10-gal batches. So I
> was looking for a much larger cooler for a mash tun.
>
> My child bride asked if I could mash now and boil later. Her
> question was "Why not mash for five gallons, save it in a pot,
> do another mash, and combine them for the boil?" She added
> the idea of mashing during the week and boiling on the weekend.
>
Do as follows:
Mash 5-gallons
Transfer to your 10 gallon pot.
Bring to a boil then shut off burner and cover.
Mash the next 5 gallons.
Keep the 10 gallons above 170F if your mash takes a really long time
(2+ hours)
Transfer the second mash into your 10 gallon pot and go!
I once did a mash then decided to go fishing before boiling. So I
brought the wort to a boil, shut off the burner and covered it. When I
came back it was still hot and there were big chunks of coagulated
protiens floating around. Turned out to be a very clear beer, tasted
great.
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Date: 13 Jun 2006 14:33:13
From: neal
Subject: Re: Mash now, boil later
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Dick Adams wrote:
> Because I have a 5-gal Gott Cooler for mashing, I am limited
> to 5-gal batches and partial mashs for 10-gal batches. So I
> was looking for a much larger cooler for a mash tun.
>
> My child bride asked if I could mash now and boil later. Her
> question was "Why not mash for five gallons, save it in a pot,
> do another mash, and combine them for the boil?" She added
> the idea of mashing during the week and boiling on the weekend.
>
Do as follows:
Mash 5-gallons
Transfer to your 10 gallon pot.
Bring to a boil then shut off burner and cover.
Mash the next 5 gallons.
Keep the 10 gallons above 170F if your mash takes a really long time
(2+ hours)
Transfer the second mash into your 10 gallon pot and go!
I once did a mash then decided to go fishing before boiling. So I
brought the wort to a boil, shut off the burner and covered it. When I
came back it was still hot and there were big chunks of coagulated
protiens floating around. Turned out to be a very clear beer, tasted
great.
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