| |
Main
Date: 12 Aug 2006 10:02:56
From: jose@jose.com
Subject: Mash Efficiency Issues
|
I brewed a wheat beer last night and everything went great with the
exception of getting a 59% mash efficiency. I have had low mash
efficiency issues in the past (usually areound 65%), and always
adjust the amount of grain to compensate, but would like to find out
how to resolve it. I usually use around 1.5 quarts of water per
pound of grain, between 150-155 degrees in a 60 minute single step
mash. I never really do a mash out, and usually fly sparge with
170deg water for 30-45 mins in a 10 gallon batch. I also use strait
tap water and do not adjust it, so I guess the PH could be off a
little but not sure. Thoughts?
--
----------------------------------------------
Posted with NewsLeecher v3.0 Final
* Binary Usenet Leeching Made Easy
* http://www.newsleecher.com/?usenet
----------------------------------------------
|
|
| |
Date: 12 Aug 2006 11:39:55
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: Mash Efficiency Issues
|
jose@jose.com wrote:
> I brewed a wheat beer last night and everything went great with the
> exception of getting a 59% mash efficiency. I have had low mash
> efficiency issues in the past (usually areound 65%), and always
> adjust the amount of grain to compensate, but would like to find out
> how to resolve it. I usually use around 1.5 quarts of water per
> pound of grain, between 150-155 degrees in a 60 minute single step
> mash. I never really do a mash out, and usually fly sparge with
> 170deg water for 30-45 mins in a 10 gallon batch. I also use strait
> tap water and do not adjust it, so I guess the PH could be off a
> little but not sure. Thoughts?
Most likely the problem is either your crush or your lautering system.
There's also always the possibility that your measurments are off. Try
describing the former two things in a little more detail.
The problem is not likely pH or other water chemistry, the lack of a
mashout or the duration of your sparge (I batch sparge and get anywhere
from 82%-86%).
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!
|
| |
Date: 12 Aug 2006 11:44:07
From: Dan Listermann
Subject: Re: Mash Efficiency Issues
|
I can almost guarantee that you are not crushing your malt fine enough.
Close the gap or run it through more than once.
Dan
"Jose" <jose@jose.com > wrote in message
news:udqdncQegMw9cEDZnZ2dnUVZ_uqdnZ2d@wideopenwest.com...
>I brewed a wheat beer last night and everything went great with the
> exception of getting a 59% mash efficiency. I have had low mash
> efficiency issues in the past (usually areound 65%), and always
> adjust the amount of grain to compensate, but would like to find out
> how to resolve it. I usually use around 1.5 quarts of water per
> pound of grain, between 150-155 degrees in a 60 minute single step
> mash. I never really do a mash out, and usually fly sparge with
> 170deg water for 30-45 mins in a 10 gallon batch. I also use strait
> tap water and do not adjust it, so I guess the PH could be off a
> little but not sure. Thoughts?
> --
> ----------------------------------------------
> Posted with NewsLeecher v3.0 Final
> * Binary Usenet Leeching Made Easy
> * http://www.newsleecher.com/?usenet
> ----------------------------------------------
|
| |
Date: 12 Aug 2006 08:05:31
From: GeoffT
Subject: Re: Mash Efficiency Issues
|
I would say try sparging for longer. I usually sparge for at least an
hour and that's just for a 5 gallon batch.
|
| |
Date: 13 Aug 2006 03:10:16
From: Adam Preble
Subject: Re: Mash Efficiency Issues
|
jose@jose.com wrote:
> I brewed a wheat beer last night and everything went great with the
> exception of getting a 59% mash efficiency. I have had low mash
Was this a big beer? Can you post the recipe you followed roughly?
|
| |
Date: 12 Aug 2006 22:24:05
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Mash Efficiency Issues
|
On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 10:02:56 -0500, < > wrote:
> I brewed a wheat beer last night and everything went great with the
> exception of getting a 59% mash efficiency. I have had low mash
> efficiency issues in the past (usually areound 65%), and always
> adjust the amount of grain to compensate, but would like to find out
> how to resolve it. I usually use around 1.5 quarts of water per
> pound of grain, between 150-155 degrees in a 60 minute single step
> mash. I never really do a mash out, and usually fly sparge with
> 170deg water for 30-45 mins in a 10 gallon batch. I also use strait
> tap water and do not adjust it, so I guess the PH could be off a
> little but not sure. Thoughts?
The number one cause of low mash efficiency is a poor crush. Do you have
your own mill, or does the LHBS crush for you?
John.
|
| | |
Date: 13 Aug 2006 00:15:00
From: jose@jose.com
Subject: Re: Mash Efficiency Issues
|
I crushed the grain using my friends mill. To my knowledge he has
not messed with the gap since he bought it. Definately gives me
something to think about, issues with the crush did not even cross
my mind. Is there an easy way to check that?
--
----------------------------------------------
Posted with NewsLeecher v3.0 Final
* Binary Usenet Leeching Made Easy
* http://www.newsleecher.com/?usenet
----------------------------------------------
|
| | | |
Date: 13 Aug 2006 13:36:31
From: stencil
Subject: Re: Mash Efficiency Issues
|
On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 00:15:00 -0500, Jose () wrote:
>[ ... ] he has
>not messed with the gap since he bought it. [ ... ]
>Is there an easy way to check that?
If you strip the insulation off pieces of solid AGW14 and AWG12 copper
wire (the two most common gauges used in USA home wiring,) you should
have a fair go-no-go nip gauge: if both pass it's too coarse, if
neither go it's too fine. This works for my Valley Mill, which has
burred rollers; those with milled grooves or other schemes may behave
differently,
It would benefit you both to enlist your friend in learning to set the
nip for the grain being used, and to achieve a crush that leaves the
husks detached but nearly entire, and the kernels broken into three or
more chunks with a fair amount of flour. This is difficult to do
without multiple passes at different settings.
FWIW, I always crush the night before brewday, and leave the grain to
steep overnight in half the strike water. This lets the husk dust
settle out of the air (I brew indoors and dust and mold are issues)
and gives the starch time to get saturated, always a factor in
conversion efficiency.
stencil sends
|
| | | |
Date: 14 Aug 2006 16:11:39
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Mash Efficiency Issues
|
On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 00:15:00 -0500, < > wrote:
> I crushed the grain using my friends mill. To my knowledge he has
> not messed with the gap since he bought it. Definately gives me
> something to think about, issues with the crush did not even cross
> my mind. Is there an easy way to check that?
Crush it on a tighter gap next time and see if your efficiency goes up.
John.
|
| | | |
Date: 14 Aug 2006 08:48:19
From: Dan Listermann
Subject: Re: Mash Efficiency Issues
|
I tell people that it should be difficult but not impossible to fine corns
that look uncrushed and those corns should appear undersized.
Dan
"Jose" <jose@jose.com > wrote in message
news:74idnVnMYoXJKEPZnZ2dnUVZ_sednZ2d@wideopenwest.com...
>I crushed the grain using my friends mill. To my knowledge he has
> not messed with the gap since he bought it. Definately gives me
> something to think about, issues with the crush did not even cross
> my mind. Is there an easy way to check that?
> --
> ----------------------------------------------
> Posted with NewsLeecher v3.0 Final
> * Binary Usenet Leeching Made Easy
> * http://www.newsleecher.com/?usenet
> ----------------------------------------------
|
| | |
Date: 15 Aug 2006 11:25:07
From: Jeff
Subject: Re: Mash Efficiency Issues
|
stencil wrote:
> FWIW, I always crush the night before brewday, and leave the grain to
> steep overnight in half the strike water. This lets the husk dust
> settle out of the air (I brew indoors and dust and mold are issues)
> and gives the starch time to get saturated, always a factor in
> conversion efficiency.
Stencil:
Can you elaborate on this process? If your initial rest is to be at a
ratio of 1.5qts/lb, then you steep with .75q/lb? And is this water at
room temperature or do you try to hit some specific temperature? I
would imagine it is difficult to get the water distributed uniformly at
that ratio.
Thanks,
--Jeff
|
| | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2006 20:38:25
From: stencil
Subject: Re: Mash Efficiency Issues
|
On 15 Aug 2006 11:25:07 -0700, "Jeff" wrote:
>
>stencil wrote:
>> FWIW, I always crush the night before brewday, and leave the grain to
>> steep overnight in half the strike water.[...]
>Stencil:
>
>Can you elaborate on this process? If your initial rest is to be at a
>ratio of 1.5qts/lb, then you steep with .75q/lb?
Yep. Or 0.7 or 0.8, depending on how many BTU I'll want to have
available in the morning. This gives a *very* stiff mash, with the
water surface below the grain. In the morning it has puffed up a bit
and is somewhat looser, thanks to the imbibement.
>And is this water at
>room temperature or do you try to hit some specific temperature? I
>would imagine it is difficult to get the water distributed uniformly at
>that ratio.
This initial dough-in water is at the ambient du jour. It really
doesn't matter because the mash will spend eight to ten hours sitting
on the concrete slab floor of the brewery and in the morning the
porridge will be at a uniform temperature of 50 to 58F, depending on
the season. Then I infuse, underletting with the balance of the
strikewater, to hit 100F or 125F, fire off the small burner, and
proceed with the mash schedule.
I generally don't brew in the dog days, so souring has never been an
issue. This pre-mash, or retting, whatever, is more of an
attitudinal thing, like finding the target before you cock the hammer.
It would be interesting to have some testimony regarding the effect it
has on extract efficiency.
stencil sends
|
| | | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2006 20:56:04
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Mash Efficiency Issues
|
On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 20:38:25 GMT, <etcs.ret@verizon.net > wrote:
> I generally don't brew in the dog days, so souring has never been an
> issue. This pre-mash, or retting, whatever, is more of an
> attitudinal thing, like finding the target before you cock the hammer.
> It would be interesting to have some testimony regarding the effect it
> has on extract efficiency.
Honestly, I can't see much benefit. There shouldn't really be any effect
on the efficiency. Efficiency is mainly from the sparge, not the mash. Are
you possibly confusing conversion with efficiency? They're not really the
same thing.
John.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2006 22:09:53
From: stencil
Subject: Re: Mash Efficiency Issues
|
On 15 Aug 2006 20:56:04 GMT, John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <spam@shagg.net >
wrote:
>On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 20:38:25 GMT, <etcs.ret@verizon.net> wrote:
>>[ ... ]regarding the effect it
>> has on extract efficiency.
>
>Honestly, I can't see much benefit. There shouldn't really be any effect
>on the efficiency. Efficiency is mainly from the sparge, not the mash. Are
>you possibly confusing conversion with efficiency? They're not really the
>same thing.
>
Yes. As used here, "extraction efficiency" refers to the relative
quantity of sugar extracted from a given quantity of grain. Thus last
winter two successive sessions, both with identically-formulated 11-lb
grain charges, yielded to the kettle respectively 8.5gal at 11P and
8.7gal at 10.8P. I take the second mash to have been more efficient.
Attempts to assign oneself a grade based on published numbers - 35
point-gallons per pound, 37, whathaveyou - founder on the fact that
the sack of grain you hold is not the sack that was scrutinized in the
lab, and that malt, like hops, is constantly changing.
So what my musing was, was to wonder whether giving the grain a
preliminary soaking before raising it to mash temperatures has a
positive effect on the relative amount of sugar in the kettle. I
suspect it does, but don't care enough to want to do the dough-in on
the morning of brewday.
stencil sends
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2006 17:32:03
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: Mash Efficiency Issues
|
stencil wrote:
> So what my musing was, was to wonder whether giving the grain a
> preliminary soaking before raising it to mash temperatures has a
> positive effect on the relative amount of sugar in the kettle. I
> suspect it does, but don't care enough to want to do the dough-in on
> the morning of brewday.
>
I think this is termed a "hydration rest". I tried it a couple of times
and couldn't find any noticable difference in efficiency, but I think
the practice is not uncommon among commercial breweries, where I'm sure
efficiency measurements are more exacting than mine.
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 16 Aug 2006 15:49:24
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Mash Efficiency Issues
|
On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 22:09:53 GMT, <etcs.ret@verizon.net > wrote:
> On 15 Aug 2006 20:56:04 GMT, John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <spam@shagg.net>
> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 20:38:25 GMT, <etcs.ret@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>[ ... ]regarding the effect it
>>> has on extract efficiency.
>>
>>Honestly, I can't see much benefit. There shouldn't really be any effect
>>on the efficiency. Efficiency is mainly from the sparge, not the mash. Are
>>you possibly confusing conversion with efficiency? They're not really the
>>same thing.
>>
> Yes. As used here, "extraction efficiency" refers to the relative
> quantity of sugar extracted from a given quantity of grain. Thus last
> winter two successive sessions, both with identically-formulated 11-lb
> grain charges, yielded to the kettle respectively 8.5gal at 11P and
> 8.7gal at 10.8P. I take the second mash to have been more efficient.
It most likely was the sparge that was more efficient, rather than anything
to do with the mash. During the mash you are concerned with conversion,
efficiency is from the sparge. What you're measuring above is efficiency.
Note: There are a couple things during the mash that can have minor
impacts on efficiency (decion, water:grain ratio), but I don't think
you are talking about either of those.
> So what my musing was, was to wonder whether giving the grain a
> preliminary soaking before raising it to mash temperatures has a
> positive effect on the relative amount of sugar in the kettle. I
> suspect it does, but don't care enough to want to do the dough-in on
> the morning of brewday.
I don't believe it would have any effect. Efficiency has to do with
how much sugar ends up in the kettle versus how much sugar is left behind
in the grain bed and "lost"... IE the efficiency of the sparge. I do
not believe soaking the grain will have any effect on the total amount
of sugars. IMO, all soaking is going to do is release soluble starches
from the grains into the mash liquid. However, that should already occur
during a "regular" mash schedule.
John.
|
| |
Date: 15 Aug 2006 11:01:33
From: Mike D'Brewer
Subject: Re: Mash Efficiency Issues
|
As others have noted, the grind is the usual culprit. Go here
http://www.schwedhelm.net/brew/howibrew.html
Down to the second picture for an example of a grind that contibutes to my
75% efficiency. Click it to enlarge. Also, your fly sparge may be too fast
and may be too cool. The water should be 180F to hit the grains at 170F.
When I used to fly sparge, my ROT was 5 mins per gallon sparged. A 10 gal
batch needed about 12 gallons of wort, so it took an hour. Batch sparging
is the way to go....
Beer here,
Mike
--
mike at schwedhelm dot net
www.schwedhelm.net/brew
"Jose" <jose@jose.com > wrote in message
news:udqdncQegMw9cEDZnZ2dnUVZ_uqdnZ2d@wideopenwest.com...
>I brewed a wheat beer last night and everything went great with the
> exception of getting a 59% mash efficiency. I have had low mash
> efficiency issues in the past (usually areound 65%), and always
> adjust the amount of grain to compensate, but would like to find out
> how to resolve it. I usually use around 1.5 quarts of water per
> pound of grain, between 150-155 degrees in a 60 minute single step
> mash. I never really do a mash out, and usually fly sparge with
> 170deg water for 30-45 mins in a 10 gallon batch. I also use strait
> tap water and do not adjust it, so I guess the PH could be off a
> little but not sure. Thoughts?
> --
> ----------------------------------------------
> Posted with NewsLeecher v3.0 Final
> * Binary Usenet Leeching Made Easy
> * http://www.newsleecher.com/?usenet
> ----------------------------------------------
|
| |
Date: 16 Aug 2006 12:23:58
From: Thomas T. Veldhouse
Subject: Re: Mash Efficiency Issues
|
jose@jose.com <Jose > wrote:
> I brewed a wheat beer last night and everything went great with the
> exception of getting a 59% mash efficiency. I have had low mash
> efficiency issues in the past (usually areound 65%), and always
> adjust the amount of grain to compensate, but would like to find out
> how to resolve it. I usually use around 1.5 quarts of water per
> pound of grain, between 150-155 degrees in a 60 minute single step
> mash. I never really do a mash out, and usually fly sparge with
> 170deg water for 30-45 mins in a 10 gallon batch. I also use strait
> tap water and do not adjust it, so I guess the PH could be off a
> little but not sure. Thoughts?
Wheat requires a smaller gap to crush and the kernels are hard, so some people
will run wheat through the mill twice.
Also, consider a protein rest when brewing wheat beers [check what the style
you are brewing typically calls for].
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
|
|
