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Date: 24 Aug 2006 04:44:37
From: Frank
Subject: Looking for a partial mash recipe suggestion
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I would like to do a partial mash and produce 2.5-3 gallons of something
"bock like". I have some Safale 56 dry yeast and a temperature controlled
fridge I can use to keep the primary at any desired temperature from 55-70.
I would like to do a partial mash so that I can collect 1 gal or so of wort
and then boil it down to a quart to emulate a decion. The rest of the
fermentables will be provided by DME of some sort. Bittering will be via .5
oz of 4% Cascade.
Thanks for your help and suggestions. Brewing is a great hobby.
Frank
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 07:25:05
From: JL
Subject: Re: Looking for a partial mash recipe suggestion
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just came across the yeast I mentioned earlier: 34/70 dry lager yeast
"Frank" <nobody@nowhere.com > wrote in message
news:Xns9828DD2F74BE9nobodynowherecom@207.115.17.102...
>I would like to do a partial mash and produce 2.5-3 gallons of something
> "bock like". I have some Safale 56 dry yeast and a temperature controlled
> fridge I can use to keep the primary at any desired temperature from
> 55-70.
> I would like to do a partial mash so that I can collect 1 gal or so of
> wort
> and then boil it down to a quart to emulate a decion. The rest of the
> fermentables will be provided by DME of some sort. Bittering will be via
> .5
> oz of 4% Cascade.
>
> Thanks for your help and suggestions. Brewing is a great hobby.
>
> Frank
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 07:16:25
From: JL
Subject: Re: Looking for a partial mash recipe suggestion
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Not a recipe, but just to let you know there is a dry yeast available for
bavarian lager too (i believe it is the same strain as the liquid yeast WL
830). if you google dry yeast bavarian lager I'm sure you'll get a hit for
it with its name.
"Frank" <nobody@nowhere.com > wrote in message
news:Xns9828DD2F74BE9nobodynowherecom@207.115.17.102...
>I would like to do a partial mash and produce 2.5-3 gallons of something
> "bock like". I have some Safale 56 dry yeast and a temperature controlled
> fridge I can use to keep the primary at any desired temperature from
> 55-70.
> I would like to do a partial mash so that I can collect 1 gal or so of
> wort
> and then boil it down to a quart to emulate a decion. The rest of the
> fermentables will be provided by DME of some sort. Bittering will be via
> .5
> oz of 4% Cascade.
>
> Thanks for your help and suggestions. Brewing is a great hobby.
>
> Frank
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Date: 25 Aug 2006 13:10:06
From: Larry Bristol
Subject: Re: Looking for a partial mash recipe suggestion
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Frank wrote:
> Thanks for your help and suggestions. Brewing is a great hobby.
I don't know if it will help in what you are trying to achieve, but you're
certainly welcome to take a look at this:
http://www.doubleluck.com/things/brewery/recipes/EmpireStrikesBock.php
It makes what we call a "Texas Bock" around these parts. [If you ever had
the original version of "Shiner Bock" back when they still followed the
Rheinheitsgebot (before they screwed it up), then you'll know what I'm
talking about!]
--
Larry Bristol --- The Double Luck
http://www.doubleluck.com
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Date: 26 Aug 2006 03:41:26
From: Frank
Subject: Re: Looking for a partial mash recipe suggestion
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Larry Bristol <larry.remove@remove.doubleluck.com > wrote in
news:12euf7ussp5l5a0@corp.supernews.com:
> I don't know if it will help in what you are trying to achieve, but
> you're certainly welcome to take a look at this:
> http://www.doubleluck.com/things/brewery/recipes/EmpireStrikesBock.
p
> hp
> It makes what we call a "Texas Bock" around these parts. [If you ever
> had the original version of "Shiner Bock" back when they still
> followed the Rheinheitsgebot (before they screwed it up), then you'll
> know what I'm talking about!]
Thank you, this link does help. I am a fan of Shiner, but I think I'll
skip the corn syrup. Some of the ingredients may be hard to get at my
LHBS. I wonder if these substitutions will work:
Old Bavarian Munich blend malt extract = Amber Extract
Dark malt extract = same
Lager malt = Munich malt
Cara-pils dextrine malt = same
Crystal malt = Crystal 60L
I will have to find out if the LHBS carries dried amber and dark
extracts, otherwise it's LME.
So partial mash of:
.5# Munich
.5# Carapils
.5# Crystal 60L
I am thinking of adding .5# of Aromatic to bring it up to 2 lbs for the
partial mash, times 1.25 qt/lb is 2.5 qts water to achieve a mash temp
of 158F for 45 minutes and batch sparge to collect 3-4 qts of wort. Boil
it down to about 1 qt and then dilute to 4 gallons and add extract to
bring the OG to about 1.070. Start the boil and add my .5 oz Cascades at
60 min. Ferment with the Safale 56 at 55F and I might have a decent
beer.
Theoretically this sounds fine, are there any practical problems I might
face?
Thanks,
Frank
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Date: 26 Aug 2006 08:48:12
From: Larry Bristol
Subject: Re: Looking for a partial mash recipe suggestion
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Frank wrote:
> Thank you, this link does help. I am a fan of Shiner, but I think I'll
> skip the corn syrup.
<grin > So would I if I were you! But you will, of course, want to make up
for it by adding more malt somewhere. The corn sweetener in this recipe is
to make the beer thinner, with more alcohol. That's a proper use of such
an ingredient, but if your tastes are like mine, go all malt!
> Some of the ingredients may be hard to get at my
> LHBS. I wonder if these substitutions will work:
> Old Bavarian Munich blend malt extract = Amber Extract
A reasonable substitute, I suppose, but I suspect the "Old Bavarian" blend
is darker. It apparently contains some Munich malt (the exact blend is
unknown to me). You will definitely want to recapture both the color and
flavor. I think your substitution idea:
> Lager malt = Munich malt
is sound, but 0.5 pounds is not very much. I would tend to question using
yet another ingredient (Aromatic malt) unless you have a particular reason
to do so. I might suggest that you just make it a full pound of Munich,
instead. And since you are replacing the sugar with more malt, the
carapils (intended to add some body) may be unnecessary. I see this recipe
on DeFalco's now uses cara-Vienne malt instead of carapils. This sounds
like a good change to me (if you can get it). And as I look at the recipe,
I now wonder why the crystal is even necessary! So you might think like
this:
1.0# Munich
1.0# cara-Vienne
> ... bring the OG to about 1.070.
You are going to need to kick it up quite a bit! The expected OG from the
recipe is only 1.053!
> Theoretically this sounds fine, are there any practical problems I might
> face?
As I recall, you are trying to emulate a decion. I have no experience
with any true decion. Boiling a gallon of the partial mash down to a
quart may give you a similar result. I cannot comment on that, but it's
bound to caramelize some of the sugars, and should prove interesting. I'll
be fascinated to hear your results!
--
Larry Bristol --- The Double Luck
http://www.doubleluck.com
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Date: 26 Aug 2006 17:11:50
From: Frank
Subject: Re: Looking for a partial mash recipe suggestion
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Larry Bristol <larry.remove@remove.doubleluck.com > wrote in
news:12f0k8u7pbdiq89@corp.supernews.com:
> A reasonable substitute, I suppose, but I suspect the "Old Bavarian"
> blend is darker. It apparently contains some Munich malt (the exact
> blend is unknown to me). You will definitely want to recapture both
> the color and flavor. I think your substitution idea:
>
>> Lager malt = Munich malt
>
> is sound, but 0.5 pounds is not very much. I would tend to question
> using yet another ingredient (Aromatic malt) unless you have a
> particular reason to do so. I might suggest that you just make it a
> full pound of Munich, instead. And since you are replacing the sugar
> with more malt, the carapils (intended to add some body) may be
> unnecessary. I see this recipe on DeFalco's now uses cara-Vienne malt
> instead of carapils. This sounds like a good change to me (if you can
> get it). And as I look at the recipe, I now wonder why the crystal is
> even necessary! So you might think like this:
> 1.0# Munich
> 1.0# cara-Vienne
I just don't think my LHBS has the "Old Bavarian". I was trying to get a
reasonable substitute. I guess I will have to ask them when I get there.
I think I understand your 1# Munich, 1# Cara-Vienne rationalle. The
question then becomes what mix of extracts do I use to emulate the "Old
Bavarian"/Dark extracts used in the original recipe.
>> ... bring the OG to about 1.070.
>
> You are going to need to kick it up quite a bit! The expected OG from
> the recipe is only 1.053!
I know, but I was thinking that 1056 might come out drier than the
standard lager yeast used for bocks. I suppose the simulated decion
might lower the attenuation of the yeast, but I didn't want to take any
chances. That's one reason I wanted some crystal in there, too. Maybe an
OG of 1.060 would be better.
> As I recall, you are trying to emulate a decion. I have no
> experience with any true decion. Boiling a gallon of the partial
> mash down to a quart may give you a similar result. I cannot comment
> on that, but it's bound to caramelize some of the sugars, and should
> prove interesting. I'll be fascinated to hear your results!
Yeah, me too. Thanks for your replies and helping me think through this
whole process. I just don't have enough experience yet to realize what
different things that sound reasonable enough on paper do in practice.
Frank
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Date: 26 Aug 2006 16:34:23
From: Larry Bristol
Subject: Re: Looking for a partial mash recipe suggestion
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Frank wrote:
> I just don't think my LHBS has the "Old Bavarian". I was trying to get a
> reasonable substitute. I guess I will have to ask them when I get there.
> I think I understand your 1# Munich, 1# Cara-Vienne rationalle. The
> question then becomes what mix of extracts do I use to emulate the "Old
> Bavarian"/Dark extracts used in the original recipe.
The hard thing about adjusting a recipe such as this one is not knowing
exactly what "Old Bavarian Munich Blend" actually contains. So let's
forget about it, and try to come up with something else. I played around a
little in ProMash and came up with this:
8# Dark LME (potential 1.035, 40L)
1# Munich (potential 1.038, 8L) (Belgium)
1# Vienna (potential 1.035, 4L) (domestic)
This gives an expected OG of 1.067 (right in the middle of the range for a
traditional bock), an SRM of 26.5 (nearer the high end), and you have your
2 pounds of malt to do your partial mash/decion thing. [Since you're
planning to mash it, you might as well switch the cara-Vienne to straight
Vienna malt.]
Since this is now a traditional bock (rather than a "Texas Bock"), you need
to change those hops. Down fool around with late hop additions for a
traditional bock! Think about maybe 1oz of Tettnanger for a 60 minute
boil. Pellets at around 5.6% AA would yield 25.4 IBUs, near the lower end
of the range for the style.
It looks like it just might make a pretty passable traditional bock!
> Thanks for your replies and helping me think through this whole process.
> I just don't have enough experience yet to realize what different things
> that sound reasonable enough on paper do in practice.
One thing I always preach is the KISS method for recipes. If it takes "n"
ingredients to get what you want, then using "n+1" is simply using too many
ingredients! Three malts and one hop; not bad! <grin >
It's a lot of trouble, but I often recommend that a brewer go through a
regiment of brewing a similar beer over and over, varying one and only one
ingredient each time. After a while, you'll know exactly what each
ingredient does, not only on paper, not just in someone else's beer, but in
*yours*. Of course, there are simply too many ingredients available to run
the whole gambit, but if you correlate what you taste in your own beers to
the way others describe those ingredients, then the written descriptions of
what an ingredient does start making more sense.
Ain't this a great hobby?!?
--
Larry Bristol --- The Double Luck
http://www.doubleluck.com
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