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Date: 11 Jul 2006 02:17:57
From: Washu
Subject: I've been thinking "what if?"
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I've been thinking "what if?" again, usually that precipitates a
disaster of biblical proportions and the wisest course of action is to
hose down the cerebrum with a dose of homebrew but this one might
actually work. Since I've got this nice new 7.5 gallon aluminum pot,
and since I'll already be doing the boil, the cooling, and the aeration
in it. "What if" I also just pitch my yeast in it, cover with the lid
and use it as the primary? Seems like the pot should be sterile enough
from the boil, I could sanitize the lid with star-san and as the CO2
builds pressure it "should" burp the lid, also since the pot will
already be sitting in a water bath to cool it down it wouldn't really
matter if the krausen boiled over or not. What do you think? Does it
sound like a train wreck waiting to happen?
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Date: 11 Jul 2006 07:35:37
From: CarlJF
Subject: Re: I've been thinking "what if?"
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> I've been thinking "what if?" again, usually that precipitates a
> disaster of biblical proportions and the wisest course of action is to
> hose down the cerebrum with a dose of homebrew but this one might
> actually work. Since I've got this nice new 7.5 gallon aluminum pot,
> and since I'll already be doing the boil, the cooling, and the aeration
> in it. "What if" I also just pitch my yeast in it, cover with the lid
> and use it as the primary? Seems like the pot should be sterile enough
> from the boil, I could sanitize the lid with star-san and as the CO2
> builds pressure it "should" burp the lid, also since the pot will
> already be sitting in a water bath to cool it down it wouldn't really
> matter if the krausen boiled over or not. What do you think? Does it
> sound like a train wreck waiting to happen?
Sure, you will have something like beer in the end. The question is:
will it be the best it can be. Some questions come immediately in my
mind:
1) As John pointed out, all the trub and break material will stay in
the fermenter. Although it will not impede fermentation, it can
certainly affect the final product to a more or less important extent.
Don't forget that people brew beer since centuries. If humans have
found that it's better to rack the wort in a fermenter, there's
certainly a good reason for it. If this step was unecessary, it would
have been dropped a long time ago.
2) Cooling 5 gallons or more of wort in a water bath will take a long,
long time. With this volume of wort, consider to use a more efficient
cooling method.
3) I don't know how the lid is fitted on your pot, but on the ones I
own, the lids aren't very tightly closed. Unless you plan to do some
kind of open fermentation, I don't see how you could closely fitted the
lid on the pot and put an airlock on it.
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Date: 11 Jul 2006 13:39:02
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: I've been thinking "what if?"
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On 11 Jul 2006 02:17:57 -0700, <rgrantha@yahoo.com > wrote:
> I've been thinking "what if?" again, usually that precipitates a
> disaster of biblical proportions and the wisest course of action is to
> hose down the cerebrum with a dose of homebrew but this one might
> actually work. Since I've got this nice new 7.5 gallon aluminum pot,
> and since I'll already be doing the boil, the cooling, and the aeration
> in it. "What if" I also just pitch my yeast in it, cover with the lid
> and use it as the primary? Seems like the pot should be sterile enough
> from the boil, I could sanitize the lid with star-san and as the CO2
> builds pressure it "should" burp the lid, also since the pot will
> already be sitting in a water bath to cool it down it wouldn't really
> matter if the krausen boiled over or not. What do you think? Does it
> sound like a train wreck waiting to happen?
You're also going to have all of the spent hops and hot/cold break in there
as well. I've heard of other people thinking about trying this. I wouldn't
do it (racking from the kettle to a seperate fermenter just makes me feel
safer for some reason), but it might work.
John.
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Date: 11 Jul 2006 11:14:51
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: I've been thinking "what if?"
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> You're also going to have all of the spent hops and hot/cold break in there
> as well. I've heard of other people thinking about trying this. I wouldn't
> do it (racking from the kettle to a seperate fermenter just makes me feel
> safer for some reason), but it might work.
Jeff Renner, who has been brewing since barley was invented, does
precisely this nad rep[orts great results. If he says it, I believe
it....
----------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 11 Jul 2006 08:14:45
From: Larry Bristol
Subject: Re: I've been thinking "what if?"
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Washu wrote:
> I've been thinking "what if?" again, usually that precipitates a
> disaster of biblical proportions and the wisest course of action is to
> hose down the cerebrum with a dose of homebrew but this one might
> actually work. Since I've got this nice new 7.5 gallon aluminum pot,
> and since I'll already be doing the boil, the cooling, and the aeration
> in it. "What if" I also just pitch my yeast in it, cover with the lid
> and use it as the primary? Seems like the pot should be sterile enough
> from the boil, I could sanitize the lid with star-san and as the CO2
> builds pressure it "should" burp the lid, also since the pot will
> already be sitting in a water bath to cool it down it wouldn't really
> matter if the krausen boiled over or not. What do you think? Does it
> sound like a train wreck waiting to happen?
Actually, it sounds a lot like an open fermentation system! Most home
brewers have the idea that fermentation needs to occur in a closed
container, but a lot of very good commercial beer has been made for a lot
of years in open containers. No train wreck!
The only problem I see is that you do not describe how you are going to
remove the break material and spent hops. I would rather not leave that
stuff in the fermenter, personally. There is a *reason* we get rid of it
when the wort is moved to the fermenter.
OK, you could transfer the cool wort to a sanitary vessel, leaving the break
behind, clean out the kettle (but now you have to resanitize it), and then
move the wort back to the kettle for fermentation. But what have you
saved? You actually did more work than simply putting the wort into a
sanitary fermenter in the first place.
Cute idea. Work on it a little more! :-)
--
Larry Bristol --- The Double Luck
http://www.doubleluck.com
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Date: 11 Jul 2006 19:24:35
From: Scott Sellers
Subject: Re: I've been thinking "what if?"
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Washu <rgrantha@yahoo.com >:
>I've been thinking "what if?" again, usually that precipitates a
>disaster of biblical proportions and the wisest course of action
>is to hose down the cerebrum with a dose of homebrew but this
>one might actually work. Since I've got this nice new 7.5 gallon
>aluminum pot, and since I'll already be doing the boil, the
>cooling, and the aeration in it. "What if" I also just pitch my
>yeast in it, cover with the lid and use it as the primary? Seems
>like the pot should be sterile enough from the boil, I could
>sanitize the lid with star-san and as the CO2 builds pressure it
>"should" burp the lid, also since the pot will already be
>sitting in a water bath to cool it down it wouldn't really
>matter if the krausen boiled over or not. What do you think?
>Does it sound like a train wreck waiting to happen?
I don't see any major problems. Just a minor concern.
It seems like during active fermentation, the hops and break
material would tend to stay in suspension. No problem if you
plan to secondary, which would give a quiet stage for debris to
settle out. I often go from primary straight to keg. I probably
wouldn't do that if I was fermenting on all the hops and trub.
If not using a secondary, you might have to give it an extra day
or two in primary beyond what you "normally" would, to let stuff
settle.
Again, that's fairly minor stuff. As far as the open fermentation
issue, I do all my primaries in a bucket with a loose fitting
lid. No problems so far.
Scott S
--
Scott Sellers
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Date: 11 Jul 2006 23:27:33
From: Steve/Aus
Subject: Re: I've been thinking "what if?"
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"Scott Sellers" <scottsellers@mindspring.com > wrote in message
news:TVSsg.3210$vO.1482@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Washu <rgrantha@yahoo.com>:
>
>>I've been thinking "what if?" again, usually that precipitates a
>>disaster of biblical proportions and the wisest course of action
>>is to hose down the cerebrum with a dose of homebrew but this
>>one might actually work. Since I've got this nice new 7.5 gallon
>>aluminum pot, and since I'll already be doing the boil, the
>>cooling, and the aeration in it. "What if" I also just pitch my
>>yeast in it, cover with the lid and use it as the primary? Seems
>>like the pot should be sterile enough from the boil, I could
>>sanitize the lid with star-san and as the CO2 builds pressure it
>>"should" burp the lid, also since the pot will already be
>>sitting in a water bath to cool it down it wouldn't really
>>matter if the krausen boiled over or not. What do you think?
>>Does it sound like a train wreck waiting to happen?
>
> I don't see any major problems. Just a minor concern.
>
> It seems like during active fermentation, the hops and break
> material would tend to stay in suspension. No problem if you
> plan to secondary, which would give a quiet stage for debris to
> settle out. I often go from primary straight to keg. I probably
> wouldn't do that if I was fermenting on all the hops and trub.
> If not using a secondary, you might have to give it an extra day
> or two in primary beyond what you "normally" would, to let stuff
> settle.
>
> Again, that's fairly minor stuff. As far as the open fermentation
> issue, I do all my primaries in a bucket with a loose fitting
> lid. No problems so far.
>
> Scott S
>
> --
> Scott Sellers
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Date: 12 Jul 2006 04:51:19
From: Scotty B
Subject: Re: I've been thinking "what if?"
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>...I've got this nice new 7.5 gallon aluminum pot
I'm new to home brewing, so I've been reading a lot, and I thought I
remembered reading somewhere that the slight acidity of the wort
doesn't mix well with an aluminum pot. Anyone know more about this?
Scotty B
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Date: 12 Jul 2006 15:14:58
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: I've been thinking "what if?"
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On 12 Jul 2006 04:51:19 -0700, <michaellasalle@gmail.com > wrote:
>>...I've got this nice new 7.5 gallon aluminum pot
>
> I'm new to home brewing, so I've been reading a lot, and I thought I
> remembered reading somewhere that the slight acidity of the wort
> doesn't mix well with an aluminum pot. Anyone know more about this?
Aluminum is fine for brewing. In the resteraunt industry aluminum is
not used for things like tomato sauce because of acidity concerns. That's
probably what you were reading about. Tomatos are *much* more acidic
than beer though. You're not going to run into any level of acidity in
brewing that will be a problem. Just don't make any tomato beer. ;)
There are many homebrewers (including myself) that use aluminum pots
for brewing without any problem.
John.
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Date: 12 Jul 2006 07:06:37
From: Larry Bristol
Subject: Re: I've been thinking "what if?"
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Scotty B wrote:
> I'm new to home brewing, so I've been reading a lot, and I thought I
> remembered reading somewhere that the slight acidity of the wort
> doesn't mix well with an aluminum pot. Anyone know more about this?
It's an old myth. At one time, there was a scare that aluminum in drinking
water and from cooking vessels was linked to Alzheimer's Disease. There is
little evidence of this in the real world. Here is a link to a FAQ from
the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences:
http://www.niehs.nih.gov/external/faq/aluminum.htm
--
Larry Bristol --- The Double Luck
http://www.doubleluck.com
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Date: 13 Jul 2006 04:23:44
From: Scotty B
Subject: Re: I've been thinking "what if?"
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>Just don't make any tomato beer. ;)
>
Hmm... tomato beer. Has anyone ever done this? I don't imagine it would
be very good, but I know that sometimes my wife will put tomato juice
in her beer to make it a 'bloody beer' (crazy health nuts, jeez).
Scotty B
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Date: 13 Jul 2006 14:48:52
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: I've been thinking "what if?"
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On 13 Jul 2006 04:23:44 -0700, <michaellasalle@gmail.com > wrote:
>
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>>Just don't make any tomato beer. ;)
>>
>
> Hmm... tomato beer. Has anyone ever done this? I don't imagine it would
> be very good, but I know that sometimes my wife will put tomato juice
> in her beer to make it a 'bloody beer' (crazy health nuts, jeez).
I knew somebody was going to ask that. ;)
IMO, I'd do it the way your wife is now... IE add it at drinking time. I
think the acidity would really mess with your mash chemistry, not to
mention any problems it would cause the yeast during fermentation.
John.
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Date: 14 Jul 2006 05:08:29
From: Scotty B
Subject: Re: I've been thinking "what if?"
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> ...I think the acidity would really mess with your mash chemistry, not to
> mention any problems it would cause the yeast during fermentation.
>
>
> John.
What if I adjusted the pH? Say with some 0.1N NaOH or such?
/not serious
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