| |
Main
Date: 22 Sep 2006 09:35:19
From: Don Levey
Subject: Is it infected?
|
A few weeks ago I did a 10 gallon batch of stout. It's in two carboys
now for secondary. One of them has a very small, thin greyish film
that seems to be developing on the very top. The other seems fine.
They're due to be kegged this weekend. I'm not usually used to seeing
stuff like this as a good sign; might that first carboy be infected,
perhaps with a wild yeast?
--
Don Levey $ cd /pub
Framingham, MA $ more beer
NOTE: email server uses spam filters; mail sent to salearn@the-leveys.us
will be used to tune the blocking lists.
|
|
| |
Date: 22 Sep 2006 14:55:47
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Is it infected?
|
On 22 Sep 2006 09:35:19 -0400, <Don_RCB@the-leveys.us > wrote:
> A few weeks ago I did a 10 gallon batch of stout. It's in two carboys
> now for secondary. One of them has a very small, thin greyish film
> that seems to be developing on the very top. The other seems fine.
> They're due to be kegged this weekend. I'm not usually used to seeing
> stuff like this as a good sign; might that first carboy be infected,
> perhaps with a wild yeast?
Sounds like a brett infection. It's pretty gross looking.
The good news is that it does not really effect the beer right away, brett
takes some time before it starts impacting the flavor/aroma. If you keg
the beer and drink that one within a couple weeks/months, you probably will
never know that it was infected. I would not age the one with the grey
film any. Just keg/carbonate it and start drinking. You should be OK
aging the other batch of it as long as that one is not showing any signs of
the same film.
The bad news is that brett infections are notoriously difficult to get out
of your equipment once they show up. I would recommend a long soak in
bleach solution for most of your equipment (buckets, carboys, spoons,
hydrometers) that came into contact with this beer at some point. I
would just replace the cheap stuff like siphon tubing, etc. Do an extra
thorough job of cleaning/sanitizing the keg and taps when you are done
drinking the beer. Make sure you take it all apart and get into everywhere
with a good strong cleaner and sanitizer.
John.
|
| | |
Date: 22 Sep 2006 11:03:41
From: Don Levey
Subject: Re: Is it infected?
|
John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <spam@shagg.net > writes:
> On 22 Sep 2006 09:35:19 -0400, <Don_RCB@the-leveys.us> wrote:
> > A few weeks ago I did a 10 gallon batch of stout. It's in two carboys
> > now for secondary. One of them has a very small, thin greyish film
> > that seems to be developing on the very top. The other seems fine.
> > They're due to be kegged this weekend. I'm not usually used to seeing
> > stuff like this as a good sign; might that first carboy be infected,
> > perhaps with a wild yeast?
>
> Sounds like a brett infection. It's pretty gross looking.
>
> The good news is that it does not really effect the beer right away, brett
> takes some time before it starts impacting the flavor/aroma. If you keg
> the beer and drink that one within a couple weeks/months, you probably will
> never know that it was infected. I would not age the one with the grey
> film any. Just keg/carbonate it and start drinking. You should be OK
> aging the other batch of it as long as that one is not showing any signs of
> the same film.
>
Well, I'll need at least one of the kegs for a party in two weeks, so
that'll be the one.
> The bad news is that brett infections are notoriously difficult to get out
> of your equipment once they show up. I would recommend a long soak in
> bleach solution for most of your equipment (buckets, carboys, spoons,
> hydrometers) that came into contact with this beer at some point. I
> would just replace the cheap stuff like siphon tubing, etc. Do an extra
> thorough job of cleaning/sanitizing the keg and taps when you are done
> drinking the beer. Make sure you take it all apart and get into everywhere
> with a good strong cleaner and sanitizer.
>
Interesting... The equipment used for the two batches was the same -
except for the fermenting buckets and the carboys/airlocks. I'm just
not sure which bucket this was from, but I didn't see a sign of it
during primary (if it takes a while, that may be why).
Thanks for the reassurance and advice! Is there a link somewhere that
discusses the various possible infections and their signs?
--
Don Levey $ cd /pub
Framingham, MA $ more beer
NOTE: email server uses spam filters; mail sent to salearn@the-leveys.us
will be used to tune the blocking lists.
|
| | | |
Date: 22 Sep 2006 15:12:45
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Is it infected?
|
On 22 Sep 2006 11:03:41 -0400, <Don_RCB@the-leveys.us > wrote:
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <spam@shagg.net> writes:
>
>> On 22 Sep 2006 09:35:19 -0400, <Don_RCB@the-leveys.us> wrote:
>> > A few weeks ago I did a 10 gallon batch of stout. It's in two carboys
>> > now for secondary. One of them has a very small, thin greyish film
>> > that seems to be developing on the very top. The other seems fine.
>> > They're due to be kegged this weekend. I'm not usually used to seeing
>> > stuff like this as a good sign; might that first carboy be infected,
>> > perhaps with a wild yeast?
>>
>> Sounds like a brett infection. It's pretty gross looking.
>>
>> The good news is that it does not really effect the beer right away, brett
>> takes some time before it starts impacting the flavor/aroma. If you keg
>> the beer and drink that one within a couple weeks/months, you probably will
>> never know that it was infected. I would not age the one with the grey
>> film any. Just keg/carbonate it and start drinking. You should be OK
>> aging the other batch of it as long as that one is not showing any signs of
>> the same film.
>>
> Well, I'll need at least one of the kegs for a party in two weeks, so
> that'll be the one.
I'd taste it before you start serving it to guests though, just to make sure
that it really was a brett infection. If it was something else there
could be more of a flavor impact. Your description of the grey film
sounds alot like brett though.
> Interesting... The equipment used for the two batches was the same -
> except for the fermenting buckets and the carboys/airlocks. I'm just
> not sure which bucket this was from, but I didn't see a sign of it
> during primary (if it takes a while, that may be why).
Could just be bad luck in that one fermenter. I've had it happen like that
before. IE, did a 10 gallon batch in seperate carboys and only one
of them picked up a brett infection.
> Thanks for the reassurance and advice! Is there a link somewhere that
> discusses the various possible infections and their signs?
I don't have a link handy, but a while ago someone posted on here a link
to a page on http://www.bodensatz.com/ that had a bunch of member submitted
pictures of various infections. IIRC, brett film was one of them.
John.
|
| | | | |
Date: 22 Sep 2006 11:26:53
From: Don Levey
Subject: Re: Is it infected?
|
John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <spam@shagg.net > writes:
>
> > Thanks for the reassurance and advice! Is there a link somewhere that
> > discusses the various possible infections and their signs?
>
> I don't have a link handy, but a while ago someone posted on here a link
> to a page on http://www.bodensatz.com/ that had a bunch of member submitted
> pictures of various infections. IIRC, brett film was one of them.
>
From those links (http://www.bodensatz.com/gallery/FermentationFotos),
it looks like the recommended course of action is pasteurisation.
I could do that, I guess, on Saturday evening, but wouldn't it drive
off most of the alcohol?
--
Don Levey $ cd /pub
Framingham, MA $ more beer
NOTE: email server uses spam filters; mail sent to salearn@the-leveys.us
will be used to tune the blocking lists.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 22 Sep 2006 15:32:36
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Is it infected?
|
On 22 Sep 2006 11:26:53 -0400, <Don_RCB@the-leveys.us > wrote:
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <spam@shagg.net> writes:
>
>>
>> > Thanks for the reassurance and advice! Is there a link somewhere that
>> > discusses the various possible infections and their signs?
>>
>> I don't have a link handy, but a while ago someone posted on here a link
>> to a page on http://www.bodensatz.com/ that had a bunch of member submitted
>> pictures of various infections. IIRC, brett film was one of them.
>>
>
> From those links (http://www.bodensatz.com/gallery/FermentationFotos),
Yep, that's it. The second pic is the brett film. It doesn't usually
look that bad unless you leave it sit for awhile in the fermenter. The
"ropey" strands in a powdery film are pretty characteristic though.
> it looks like the recommended course of action is pasteurisation.
> I could do that, I guess, on Saturday evening, but wouldn't it drive
> off most of the alcohol?
I would not pasteurize it. I think that's overkill for a brett infection
a likely to cause more problems than it solves. IMO, just leave it alone
and plan on not aging it for long.
John.
|
| |
Date: 22 Sep 2006 17:28:44
From: Jeff
Subject: Re: Is it infected?
|
David M. Taylor wrote:
> Interesting you should mention green olives. I've tasted a few beers in my
> lifetime where the only way I could describe the off-flavor was that it was
> like green olives. I wonder what causes this. It's a tangy, tinny,
> vinegary, vegetal sort of flavor. Not desirable in my book. But, it's not
> the worst -- at least it doesn't take like hospital disinfectant.
> Chlorophenols. Bleccck!!
I emailed the originator of the recipe about it when the green olive
odor was heavy (in primary). He didn't react directly to my comment
about it smelling like green olives, but did say that a lot of diacetyl
is produced by the bacterial portion of the ferment, and that the yeast
would take care of it later. Considering that olives are heavy in fat
content, and olive oil is somewhat buttery and nutty, I was wondering
if it was a combination of the diacetyl and the sourness produced by
the bacteria.
I've never tried a Berliner Weiss, but I have had a Gueuze that I
really liked. I think this beer will be ok, but probably not an ideal
example of a Berliner Weiss because of the green olive flavor (assuming
it's still there - it's been a while since I checked). Like I said, it
was subtle by the time I tested it a couple of weeks ago, and overall I
thought it had some pretty good flavor. I know it is supposed to be
highly carbonated and I believe it is generally served cold (and
sometimes with flavored syrups, which I'm not interested in). The main
reason I tried it was that I wanted to try making a sour beer without
getting too technical about it - and that recipe was about as easy (and
cheap) as you get.
--Jeff
|
| |
Date: 22 Sep 2006 12:26:38
From: Jeff
Subject: Re: Is it infected?
|
John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> Sounds like a brett infection. It's pretty gross looking.
>
> The good news is that it does not really effect the beer right away, brett
> takes some time before it starts impacting the flavor/aroma. If you keg
Isn't a brett infection desired in some beers (lambics)? What type of
flavor does it impart, and when the time comes, how do you actually
stop it from continuing in the bottle?
I ask because I have a Berliner Weiss sitting in secondary right now
(no-boil, just add grain to start the souring - recipe I approximated
can be found at http://www.ratebeer.com/Recipe.asp?RecipeID=110 ) and
things have gone well to this point. I have a skin on the top, as I was
told would happen. It's grey, but pretty consistant (and it has some
CO2 bubbles under it in a couple spots, so it looks a little like the
reverse of the surface of the moon). My plan is to rack it to keg (as
soon as I get one free). It has been in the fermenter much longer than
the recipe calls for. I was told that once kegged, the skin won't
develop as easily, but I'm not sure why that is. I was concerned that
the last glass of beer from the keg would be a slug of skin, which
probably wouldn't taste that good.
I tasted it a few weeks ago and it was quite sour. Initially, it had a
very strong odor of green olives (like when you open a jar of
commercial green olives and take a sniff). That smell is gone, but it
did have some green olive taste when I tried it. Not sure how it'll
translate when it's carbonated and chilled, but it's interesting.
--Jeff
|
| | |
Date: 22 Sep 2006 17:38:51
From: David M. Taylor
Subject: Re: Is it infected?
|
"Jeff" <jjhenze@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1158953198.397810.152300@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> I tasted it a few weeks ago and it was quite sour. Initially, it had a
> very strong odor of green olives (like when you open a jar of
> commercial green olives and take a sniff). That smell is gone, but it
> did have some green olive taste when I tried it. Not sure how it'll
> translate when it's carbonated and chilled, but it's interesting.
Interesting you should mention green olives. I've tasted a few beers in my
lifetime where the only way I could describe the off-flavor was that it was
like green olives. I wonder what causes this. It's a tangy, tinny,
vinegary, vegetal sort of flavor. Not desirable in my book. But, it's not
the worst -- at least it doesn't take like hospital disinfectant.
Chlorophenols. Bleccck!!
--
Dave
"Just a drink, a little drink, and I'll be feeling GOOooOOooOOooD!" --
Genesis, 1973-ish
|
| | |
Date: 22 Sep 2006 15:41:19
From: Don Levey
Subject: Re: Is it infected?
|
"Jeff" <jjhenze@gmail.com > writes:
>
> I tasted it a few weeks ago and it was quite sour. Initially, it had a
> very strong odor of green olives (like when you open a jar of
> commercial green olives and take a sniff). That smell is gone, but it
> did have some green olive taste when I tried it. Not sure how it'll
> translate when it's carbonated and chilled, but it's interesting.
>
I hope that doesn't happen to mine. It's supposed to be a stout, and
the idea of an oatmeal/green olive combination is not one I'd like to
think about for long.
--
Don Levey $ cd /pub
Framingham, MA $ more beer
NOTE: email server uses spam filters; mail sent to salearn@the-leveys.us
will be used to tune the blocking lists.
|
| | |
Date: 24 Sep 2006 05:53:22
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Is it infected?
|
On 22 Sep 2006 12:26:38 -0700, <jjhenze@gmail.com > wrote:
>
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>> Sounds like a brett infection. It's pretty gross looking.
>>
>> The good news is that it does not really effect the beer right away, brett
>> takes some time before it starts impacting the flavor/aroma. If you keg
>
> Isn't a brett infection desired in some beers (lambics)?
Yeah, it's a standard part of the lambic character. Not usually something
you want in most beers though.
> What type of flavor does it impart
I've heard it described lots of ways "horse blanket", "earthy", etc. Usually
the sourness in lambics comes from Lacto bacteria.
> and when the time comes, how do you actually stop it from continuing
> in the bottle?
You don't. At least, not easily.
> (no-boil, just add grain to start the souring - recipe I approximated
> can be found at http://www.ratebeer.com/Recipe.asp?RecipeID=110 ) and
> things have gone well to this point. I have a skin on the top, as I was
> told would happen. It's grey, but pretty consistant (and it has some
> CO2 bubbles under it in a couple spots, so it looks a little like the
> reverse of the surface of the moon). My plan is to rack it to keg (as
> soon as I get one free). It has been in the fermenter much longer than
> the recipe calls for. I was told that once kegged, the skin won't
> develop as easily, but I'm not sure why that is. I was concerned that
> the last glass of beer from the keg would be a slug of skin, which
> probably wouldn't taste that good.
>
> I tasted it a few weeks ago and it was quite sour. Initially, it had a
> very strong odor of green olives (like when you open a jar of
> commercial green olives and take a sniff). That smell is gone, but it
> did have some green olive taste when I tried it. Not sure how it'll
> translate when it's carbonated and chilled, but it's interesting.
Grains are full of lacto, which is what generally gives beer the sour
flavor. That's probably what you have, as opposed to a brett infection.
John.
|
|
