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Date: 25 Jul 2006 10:01:22
From: Gerard Eberlein
Subject: Irish Moss and Chill Haze
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I made an Arrogant Bastard clone using extracts and specialty grain and it
called for 1 pkg. of irish moss at 15 mins. 1 pkg at my LHBS was 1 oz. so
that's what I used. I cheated (I opened a brew 4 days after bottling it)
and in the light it looked like tea with a splash of milk in it. It tasted
fine, aside from the obvious low carbonation, and after it warmed up a bit
it seemed to clear up to a plain tea colour. Is this chill haze? It's the
only brew I've had this happen to so far. Even my Hefe was clearer than this
looked. Was 1 oz. irish moss too much? Any facts/opinions appreciated.
Gerard
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 15:34:42
From: Thomas T. Veldhouse
Subject: Re: Irish Moss and Chill Haze
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Gerard Eberlein <dormouse@charter.net > wrote:
> I made an Arrogant Bastard clone using extracts and specialty grain and it
> called for 1 pkg. of irish moss at 15 mins. 1 pkg at my LHBS was 1 oz. so
> that's what I used. I cheated (I opened a brew 4 days after bottling it)
> and in the light it looked like tea with a splash of milk in it. It tasted
> fine, aside from the obvious low carbonation, and after it warmed up a bit
> it seemed to clear up to a plain tea colour. Is this chill haze? It's the
> only brew I've had this happen to so far. Even my Hefe was clearer than this
> looked. Was 1 oz. irish moss too much? Any facts/opinions appreciated.
>
I dare say that 1 ounce was WAY too much. I do not know what effect, if any,
that it will have on your beer. It is really just cargeenan. Consider
chocolate milk ... look at the ingredients on the carton of "Nestle Quik" that
you buy. It has carageenan in it. The effect of larger amounts is as a
thickener, but I am not aware of a flavor contribution.
Most often, you use about 1 teaspoon of Irish Moss for a five gallon batch.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 07:36:25
From: GeoffT
Subject: Re: Irish Moss and Chill Haze
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>
> I did change the hop addition times some. I had problems racking to the
> bottling bucket, the autosiphon kept clogging from the pellets I used for
> dry hopping so I'm sure I picked up some trub. I didn't use a hop sack and
> my LHBS has limited variety of whole hops.
>
> Gerard
Couple of things to think about: I've never used pellet hops but I've
heard they can contribute to haze when dry hopping. The good news is
they will settle out eventually. Also, the american ale yeast doesnt
flocculate particularly well and you might be getting some yeast haze
especially after 4 days. This will also settle out eventually - putting
the bottles in the fridge will help with this AFTER they are carbonated
(3 weeks).
As for pellets clogging your siphon you could wrap some kind of
(sanitized) mesh around the end that goes in the wort as a sort of
filter. A nylon sock would work for this.
I reckon your beer will clear out if you give it enough time... 4 days
is extremely early to be tasting.
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 10:45:11
From: Gerard Eberlein
Subject: Re: Irish Moss and Chill Haze
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"GeoffT" <sonic_death_monkey@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1153838185.156939.95510@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> As for pellets clogging your siphon you could wrap some kind of
> (sanitized) mesh around the end that goes in the wort as a sort of
> filter. A nylon sock would work for this.
I did use clean cheesecloth and that clogged bad...had to remove it from the
siphon to get the last 3/4 of a gallon of beer out of the secondary.
As far as 4 days goes, I know it's early but I usually do one cheater beer
between 4 and 7 days just to see how it's going. Never had any haze in the
others after 4 days or so, so that's why I was asking. Thanx for the info.
Gerard
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 07:22:28
From: GeoffT
Subject: Re: Irish Moss and Chill Haze
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Gerard Eberlein wrote:
> I made an Arrogant Bastard clone using extracts and specialty grain and it
> called for 1 pkg. of irish moss at 15 mins. 1 pkg at my LHBS was 1 oz. so
> that's what I used. I cheated (I opened a brew 4 days after bottling it)
> and in the light it looked like tea with a splash of milk in it. It tasted
> fine, aside from the obvious low carbonation, and after it warmed up a bit
> it seemed to clear up to a plain tea colour. Is this chill haze? It's the
> only brew I've had this happen to so far. Even my Hefe was clearer than this
> looked. Was 1 oz. irish moss too much? Any facts/opinions appreciated.
>
> Gerard
Yeah, thats chill haze. Annoying, but harmless to the taste.
One ounce is fine for irish moss, it's there to help coagulate proteins
and therefore reduce chill haze. As far as I know, too much isn't a
problem where chill haze is concerned.
It can also be caused by a poor hot or cold break, and there are
certain ingredients which can contribute to it aswell. What was the
recipe?
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 10:28:46
From: Gerard Eberlein
Subject: Re: Irish Moss and Chill Haze
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"GeoffT" <sonic_death_monkey@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1153837348.839543.237350@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
What was the
> recipe?
Arrogant Bastard - Extract
Style: American Specialty Ale
WARNING - This Beer is not for the faint of heart!!! You probably shouldn't
even be thinking of brewing a beer
of such monumental proportions, let alone drinking it. The heavy handed
doses of high alpha hops -
including the finishing (dry) hops will be right in your face. Backed up
with a complex malty backbone, this
beer packs a punch and then some. If you think that you're worthy, give it a
shot. Otherwise just stick with
your cans and corn sugar. (Starting Gravity: 1.074-1.080) (Finishing
Gravity: 1.014-1.020) (Approximate Alcohol
Content: 7.4-7.9%) (78 IBU)
Ingredients:
Amber DME 4.0 pounds
Wheat DME 4.0 pounds
*Special-B 8.0 ounces
*Biscuit 8.0 ounces
*Aromatic 8.0 ounces
*CaraMunich 8.0 ounces
Corn Sugar (Bottling) .75 cups
Magnum (Bittering - 60 min.) 1.0 ounces
Columbus (Bittering - 50 min.) 0.5 ounces
Centennial (Flavoring - 30 min.) 0.5 ounces
Centennial (Finishing - Dry) 1.0 ounces
Irish Moss 1.0 package
Wyeast #1056 American Ale 1.0 package
OR
White Labs #WLP-001 1.0 tube
Date Gravity
Brewing:
Racking:
Bottling:
Alcohol: %
Place cracked grain in grain bag and add to 2 to 2-1/2 gallons of water
(tap, filtered, or bottled.not distilled).
Turn burner to medium and allow grains to steep for a minimum of 30 minutes.
(150 to 155?F is ideal).
Remove grain bag and dissolve Dried Malt Extract (DME) in brew kettle. Make
sure that DME is completely dissolved before
applying heat.
Turn up heat to achieve boil.
Add 1 oz. Magnum bittering hops.set timer for 10 minutes. After 10 minutes.
Add .5 oz. Columbus.set timer for 20 minutes. After 20 minutes.
Add .5 oz. Centennial.set timer for 15 minutes. After 15 minutes.
Add Irish Moss.set timer for 15 minutes. After 15 minutes.
Remove from heat (NOTE: Add Dry Hops now if no secondary fermenter will be
used), cover pot and chill to 70 to 80°F.
Add to primary fermenter by straining through filter funnel, top up with
water to 5 gallons and mix and aerate well by
shaking fermenter or injecting filtered air or oxygen.
Pitch Yeast. If using Wyeast make sure the package is completely swollen.
White Lab's should be allowed to warm to
pitching temperature.
You should have active fermentation within 8 to 36 hours.
Once fermentation is complete, transfer to secondary (if you have one) and
add 1 oz. of Centennial Dry Hops for 1-4 weeks,
depending on how Arrogant you want this beer to be.
Bottle or Keg as usual.
I did change the hop addition times some. I had problems racking to the
bottling bucket, the autosiphon kept clogging from the pellets I used for
dry hopping so I'm sure I picked up some trub. I didn't use a hop sack and
my LHBS has limited variety of whole hops.
Gerard
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 14:12:43
From: Dick Adams
Subject: Re: Irish Moss and Chill Haze
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Gerard Eberlein <dormouse@charter.net > wrote:
> I made an Arrogant Bastard clone using extracts and specialty grain and it
> called for 1 pkg. of irish moss at 15 mins. 1 pkg at my LHBS was 1 oz. so
> that's what I used. I cheated (I opened a brew 4 days after bottling it)
> and in the light it looked like tea with a splash of milk in it. It tasted
> fine, aside from the obvious low carbonation, and after it warmed up a bit
> it seemed to clear up to a plain tea colour. Is this chill haze? It's the
> only brew I've had this happen to so far. Even my Hefe was clearer than this
> looked. Was 1 oz. irish moss too much? Any facts/opinions appreciated.
I made 11 gallons of an Arrogant Bastard clone earlier this year.
I botttled about two gallons and kegged the rest. I used a 1 oz
pkg and do not recall a haze. Maybe I was enjoying it too much.
I am very patient with my Beers and have no problem with no long
it takes - something I can not say about my Meads.
Dick
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 10:23:17
From: Gerard Eberlein
Subject: Re: Irish Moss and Chill Haze
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"Dick Adams" <rdadams@smart.net > wrote in message
news:12cc9mrtondf77b@corp.supernews.com...
> I made 11 gallons of an Arrogant Bastard clone earlier this year.
> I botttled about two gallons and kegged the rest. I used a 1 oz
> pkg and do not recall a haze. Maybe I was enjoying it too much.
LOL...I used 1oz. for a 5 gallon batch. I just read in another forum I was
supposed to rehydrate the moss? Maybe that had something to do with it.
Gerard
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 12:00:19
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: Irish Moss and Chill Haze
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Gerard Eberlein wrote:
> "Dick Adams" <rdadams@smart.net> wrote in message
> news:12cc9mrtondf77b@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>I made 11 gallons of an Arrogant Bastard clone earlier this year.
>>I botttled about two gallons and kegged the rest. I used a 1 oz
>>pkg and do not recall a haze. Maybe I was enjoying it too much.
>
>
>
> LOL...I used 1oz. for a 5 gallon batch. I just read in another forum I was
> supposed to rehydrate the moss? Maybe that had something to do with it.
>
> Gerard
>
>
You generally need to rehydrate isinglass, not IM (AFAIK). That being
said, I like whirlflock better than regular IM. Pre measured tabs and it
seems to do a better job, though it's basically the same stuff in a
different form.
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 17:22:28
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Irish Moss and Chill Haze
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On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 14:12:43 -0000, <rdadams@smart.net > wrote:
> I am very patient with my Beers and have no problem with no long
> it takes - something I can not say about my Meads.
I've never thought of meads in terms of being impatient before. I
routinely ferment/age meads in carboys for 1-2 years before I bottle/keg
them. What's your typical turn around time on making a mead?
John.
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Date: 26 Jul 2006 07:54:44
From: Dick Adams
Subject: Re: Irish Moss and Chill Haze
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar <spam@shagg.net > wrote:
> <rdadams@smart.net> wrote:
>> I am very patient with my Beers and have no problem with no long
>> it takes - something I can not say about my Meads.
> I've never thought of meads in terms of being impatient before. I
> routinely ferment/age meads in carboys for 1-2 years before I bottle/keg
> them. What's your typical turn around time on making a mead?
Three to six months, but I have one that is 13 months old and
another eight months old.
I am primarly a meadmaker who brews beer to keep my hands off
the young meads. I just need to brew faster!
Dick - One man's Mead is another man's Persian.
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Date: 26 Jul 2006 23:33:43
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Irish Moss and Chill Haze
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On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 07:54:44 -0000, <rdadams@smart.net > wrote:
> I am primarly a meadmaker who brews beer to keep my hands off
> the young meads. I just need to brew faster!
I mostly brew meads because my wife and mother in law like them. We did
our wedding toast with my mead instead of champagne, which was kind of
cool. I'd kept one bottle stashed away for just my wife and I for that
toast, which ended up being 5+ years old at the time.
John.
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 13:46:14
From: Gerard Eberlein
Subject: Re: Irish Moss and Chill Haze
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Thanx all for the input. Guess that's what happens when I don't do research
on things I haven't used in brewing before. In the future I will probably
try those tablets. At least the saving grace is it tastes good...like
someone said, just put it in a ceramic mug and no one will see it ;) Next
time I'll get it right.
Gerard
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 18:57:57
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Irish Moss and Chill Haze
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On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 13:46:14 -0400, <dormouse@charter.net > wrote:
>
> Thanx all for the input. Guess that's what happens when I don't do research
> on things I haven't used in brewing before. In the future I will probably
> try those tablets. At least the saving grace is it tastes good...like
> someone said, just put it in a ceramic mug and no one will see it ;) Next
> time I'll get it right.
Here's another $.02:
I haven't used irish moss in years, and don't really have any problems
with clarity without it. IMO, what you're likely seeing is a combination
of things. The high wheat content in the recipe will cause some
cloudiness, as will the trouble you had during the racking. It's also
possible that if you didn't get a good cold break that you may have some
chill haze issues. In the end though, it's the taste that's most
important.
John.
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 23:24:00
From: Steve/Aus
Subject: Re: Irish Moss and Chill Haze
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"John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" <spam@shagg.net > wrote in message
news:slrneccqhf.nup.spam@weizen.shagg.net...
> On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 13:46:14 -0400, <dormouse@charter.net> wrote:
>>
>> Thanx all for the input. Guess that's what happens when I don't do
>> research
>> on things I haven't used in brewing before. In the future I will probably
>> try those tablets. At least the saving grace is it tastes good...like
>> someone said, just put it in a ceramic mug and no one will see it ;) Next
>> time I'll get it right.
>
> Here's another $.02:
>
> I haven't used irish moss in years, and don't really have any problems
> with clarity without it. IMO, what you're likely seeing is a combination
> of things. The high wheat content in the recipe will cause some
> cloudiness, as will the trouble you had during the racking. It's also
> possible that if you didn't get a good cold break that you may have some
> chill haze issues. In the end though, it's the taste that's most
> important.
>
>
> John.
If clarirty is a concern, there are plenty of things you can use in the
secondary - or even keg, to drag suspended solids out. I use gelatine but
there's also isinglas, bentonite even egg whites will work as well as
others. IIRC, irish moss doesn't address chill haze. In any case, you really
need to chill the beer to the point where the haze forms before you add any
form of floculant.
I have a lager that wouldn't clear, I chilled it to near freezing, added 1/2
oz of gelatine dissolved in hot water and within 24 hours it had cleared.
Steve W (in Aus)
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Date: 26 Jul 2006 00:24:17
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Irish Moss and Chill Haze
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On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 23:24:00 GMT, <adlab@bigponddotnetdotau.trashthisbit > wrote:
>
> "John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" <spam@shagg.net> wrote in message
> news:slrneccqhf.nup.spam@weizen.shagg.net...
>> On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 13:46:14 -0400, <dormouse@charter.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanx all for the input. Guess that's what happens when I don't do
>>> research
>>> on things I haven't used in brewing before. In the future I will probably
>>> try those tablets. At least the saving grace is it tastes good...like
>>> someone said, just put it in a ceramic mug and no one will see it ;) Next
>>> time I'll get it right.
>>
>> Here's another $.02:
>>
>> I haven't used irish moss in years, and don't really have any problems
>> with clarity without it. IMO, what you're likely seeing is a combination
>> of things. The high wheat content in the recipe will cause some
>> cloudiness, as will the trouble you had during the racking. It's also
>> possible that if you didn't get a good cold break that you may have some
>> chill haze issues. In the end though, it's the taste that's most
>> important.
>>
>>
>> John.
>
> If clarirty is a concern, there are plenty of things you can use in the
> secondary - or even keg, to drag suspended solids out. I use gelatine but
> there's also isinglas, bentonite even egg whites will work as well as
> others. IIRC, irish moss doesn't address chill haze. In any case, you really
> need to chill the beer to the point where the haze forms before you add any
> form of floculant.
> I have a lager that wouldn't clear, I chilled it to near freezing, added 1/2
> oz of gelatine dissolved in hot water and within 24 hours it had cleared.
Personally, I just use cold conditioning and patience. I've never had the
need for any kind of finings.
John.
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Date: 26 Jul 2006 00:51:00
From: Steve/Aus
Subject: Re: Irish Moss and Chill Haze
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"John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" <spam@shagg.net > wrote in message
news:slrnecddla.quu.spam@weizen.shagg.net...
.
>
> Personally, I just use cold conditioning and patience. I've never had the
> need for any kind of finings.
>
>
> John.
You're a very patient man Mr. Shaggy!
I use finings to fix faults, primarily in lagers, like when I added ground
rice to the mash and it didn't all convert properly.
Steve W (in Aus)
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Date: 26 Jul 2006 23:30:19
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Irish Moss and Chill Haze
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On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 00:51:00 GMT, <adlab@bigponddotnetdotau.trashthisbit > wrote:
> You're a very patient man Mr. Shaggy!
It's just a matter of having enough around to drink that you're not trying
to rush the stuff that's in the fermenter. IMO, keeping you brewing ahead
of your drinking goes a long way towards helping with the patience thing.
John.
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 19:18:35
From: Gerard Eberlein
Subject: Re: Irish Moss and Chill Haze
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"John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" <spam@shagg.net > wrote in message
news:slrneccqhf.nup.spam@weizen.shagg.net...
> On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 13:46:14 -0400,
It's also
> possible that if you didn't get a good cold break that you may have some
> chill haze issues.
Has to be the other stuff..I have a prechiller and a chiller that cooled it
from boiling to 71F in about 20 mins. Maybe next time I'll try without the
moss...it's the first chill haze beer I've made and the ONLY one I used
Irish moss in.
Gerard
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Date: 26 Jul 2006 00:22:40
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Irish Moss and Chill Haze
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On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 19:18:35 -0400, <dormouse@charter.net > wrote:
>
> "John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" <spam@shagg.net> wrote in message
> news:slrneccqhf.nup.spam@weizen.shagg.net...
>> On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 13:46:14 -0400,
>
> It's also
>> possible that if you didn't get a good cold break that you may have some
>> chill haze issues.
>
>
> Has to be the other stuff..I have a prechiller and a chiller that cooled it
> from boiling to 71F in about 20 mins. Maybe next time I'll try without the
> moss...it's the first chill haze beer I've made and the ONLY one I used
> Irish moss in.
Yeah, that's a pretty good cold break. ;)
IMO, probably the wheat and racking problems.
John.
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