Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

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Date: 04 Aug 2006 02:03:04
From: Martik
Subject: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

Here in Vancouver BC, Corona is now $26 a case (12) and approx $21 a case
for the cheapest stuff you can find. Cost to brew your own is about $13 for
FIVE 1/2 cases (malt, maltose, hops and yeast) Sometimes dented kit cans
are on sale for $5.
Need I say more?

Date: 03 Aug 2006 20:59:52
From:
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

Brewing beer to save money is as cost effective as buying a
recreational boat to save money on fish.

Roger

Date: 03 Aug 2006 22:07:42
From: Scott Lindner
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

> ... buying a recreational boat to save money on fish.

I know plenty of people that have done that.

Date: 03 Aug 2006 21:30:09
From: Bob
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

"Scott Lindner" <nospam@noemail.com > wrote in message
news:ErqdnT5gWaqTVU_ZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@adelphia.com...
> > ... buying a recreational boat to save money on fish.
>
> I know plenty of people that have done that.

And how many succeeded?

Bob

Date: 04 Aug 2006 07:02:56
From: Scott Lindner
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

> And how many succeeded?

I don't know but they all seemed pretty proud of it and happy with their
decision.

Date: 04 Aug 2006 04:31:59
From: Martik
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

<barnabyr@ureach.com > wrote in message
news:1154663992.099721.270370@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Brewing beer to save money is as cost effective as buying a
> recreational boat to save money on fish.
>
> Roger
>

Lets see, $26 * 5.5 cases = $143

Brew my own $13

Difference $130

If we go thru 1 batch a month that's $1560/yr or $52,872 in 20 years at 5%

OTOH:

My friend goes fishing and spends 30k on a truck to haul his 20k boat and
spends $300-500 for a weekend fishing and comes back with an average of 3
5lb fish. Now that's not cost effective!

Date: 04 Aug 2006 13:51:10
From: Dan Logcher
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

barnabyr@ureach.com wrote:

> Brewing beer to save money is as cost effective as buying a
> recreational boat to save money on fish.

I disagree.. if you buy a cheap starter setup you can make that
money back in a few batches. If you don't have to pay for water,
its even faster.

I can brew a 5 gallon extract batch $17, which equates to $0.30
per 12oz bottle. If the average 6-pack of decent beer is $6.95,
you're saving $0.85 per bottle. For a $150 starter kit, you'd need
to make just over 3 batches to make that back.

I'm not even figuring in time here, cuz thats too hard to put a
price on from person to person. I enjoy this hobby, so that adds
value to the prospect.

--
Dan

Date: 07 Aug 2006 07:42:08
From: Ryan Case
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

Dan Logcher wrote:
> barnabyr@ureach.com wrote:
>
>> Brewing beer to save money is as cost effective as buying a
>> recreational boat to save money on fish.
>
> I disagree.. if you buy a cheap starter setup you can make that
> money back in a few batches. If you don't have to pay for water,
> its even faster.
>
> I can brew a 5 gallon extract batch $17, which equates to $0.30
> per 12oz bottle. If the average 6-pack of decent beer is $6.95,
> you're saving $0.85 per bottle. For a $150 starter kit, you'd need
> to make just over 3 batches to make that back.
>
> I'm not even figuring in time here, cuz thats too hard to put a
> price on from person to person. I enjoy this hobby, so that adds
> value to the prospect.
>

After having been in the hobby for years I figure that my meager
equipment has been paid for time and again. Now, I live in the land of
community well so water is flat fee every month regardless of use. I
also live in the land of hops, Yakima, Wa. so they are free. (As in beer
not speech.)

I figure on batches that use expensive liquid yeast I am in a 10 gallon
batch about $24 for grain, yeast and propane. (I don't count the
electricity to run the pump.) Another $2 in CO2, (this is probably high,
but I have been able to get about six batches carbonated and pushed with
a single $15 refill) So that means that a six pack of my beer costs me
about $1.50?

Any decent beer in the local grocery is going to cost me at least $1 a
bottle on sale. So I save $4.50 a sixer, and I get to hang out with
friends in the garage every other saturday and drink coffee/beer and
shoot the bull for four+ hours. Somehow driving to the grocery alone to
pay more just isn't as enjoyable.

Ryan

Date: 07 Aug 2006 23:39:17
From: two bob
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

> Brewing beer to save money is as cost effective as buying a
> recreational boat to save money on fish.

I started kit brewing to say "i've done it". That was 30 years ago. I'm
still at it and saving a small fortune to boot. It costs $14 to brew 5 gals,
to purchase 2 cartons it works out to be $70 to $80. Yes, the initial outlay
was $50, then the kegging equip years later a further $500, but as well as a
huge saving I am making a product that cant be equalled by the local
breweries.
The equation will change in the near future as I will be moving to all
grain. But, I enjoy the hobby, so the extra effort will still be worth it.

Date: 04 Aug 2006 09:34:52
From: alebrewer
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

Martik wrote:
> Here in Vancouver BC, Corona is now $26 a case (12) and approx $21 a case
> for the cheapest stuff you can find. Cost to brew your own is about $13 for
> FIVE 1/2 cases (malt, maltose, hops and yeast) Sometimes dented kit cans
> are on sale for $5.
> Need I say more?

You have covered the cost of the raw materials. You also need to
consider (as has already been menitoned) the cost of the equipment, as
well as the cost of labor, inventory costs, and the effect of lead
time.

In the Houston area, a 6-pack of St. Arnolds runs around $7 (US) these
days, or about a dollar a bottle. My HB costs about 30 cents a glass
in ingredients (I keg, so I'm figuring it's $15 per bottle, 1 bottle
per batch--It's just a big bottle). But, there is at least 6 hours of
labor involved (probably 10 if I was to bottle) for each batch. Even
at minimum wage, just including labor gets it close to break-even. Add
equipment, inventory, and lead time, often it's "cheaper" just to run
down to the store and grab a 6-pack..

Of course, there is also the issue of quality to consider. I suspect
there are many local brews available in Vancouver that I would prefer
over Corona at a more reasonable price.

ab

Date: 04 Aug 2006 17:01:16
From: Joel
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

alebrewer <alebrewer@wt.net > wrote:
>But, there is at least 6 hours of labor involved (probably 10 if I was to
> bottle) for each batch.

If you're goping to start getting precise about it,
I would hope you're not spending six hours of constant
labor to brew a batch of beer.
--
Joel Plutchak "Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and
plutchak@[...] sometimes I think we're not. In either case the idea
is quite staggering." - Arthur C. Clarke

Date: 04 Aug 2006 17:09:45
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

On Fri, 4 Aug 2006 17:01:16 +0000 (UTC), <plutchak@see.headers > wrote:
> alebrewer <alebrewer@wt.net> wrote:
>>But, there is at least 6 hours of labor involved (probably 10 if I was to
>> bottle) for each batch.
>
> If you're goping to start getting precise about it,
> I would hope you're not spending six hours of constant
> labor to brew a batch of beer.

I never have understood the "labor" thing anyway. Personally I don't
pay someone to brew my beer for me, so why factor labor costs into it?
Either you spend time brewing because you like it as a hobby or you don't.
IMO, trying to figure out how much it costs you to do your hobby with
regards to labor charges is just plain silly.

John.

Date: 04 Aug 2006 20:43:59
From: Martik
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

"John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" <spam@shagg.net > wrote in message
news:slrned6vuv.jpk.spam@weizen.shagg.net...
> On Fri, 4 Aug 2006 17:01:16 +0000 (UTC), <plutchak@see.headers> wrote:
>> alebrewer <alebrewer@wt.net> wrote:
>>>But, there is at least 6 hours of labor involved (probably 10 if I was to
>>> bottle) for each batch.
>>
>> If you're goping to start getting precise about it,
>> I would hope you're not spending six hours of constant
>> labor to brew a batch of beer.
>
> I never have understood the "labor" thing anyway. Personally I don't
> pay someone to brew my beer for me, so why factor labor costs into it?
> Either you spend time brewing because you like it as a hobby or you don't.
> IMO, trying to figure out how much it costs you to do your hobby with
> regards to labor charges is just plain silly.
>

I agree, you cannot put a price on your FREE time. If I did, I would never
cook at home. And I don't understand the huge capital startup costs
discussed here. A primary, carboy, hydrometer is all that is really required
to make decent beer. You can usually find those items at a garage sale for
under $20 and new for $40-50. I use both used plastic soda 'bottles'
500/1000ml and the 473ml swing-top bottles I got free from the local pub.
The brew made with this simple equipment is already so much superior to most
local brands I never bothered to venture into more exotic methods.

Date:
From:
Subject:

Date: 04 Aug 2006 14:24:44
From: Dan Logcher
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:

> On Fri, 4 Aug 2006 17:01:16 +0000 (UTC), <plutchak@see.headers> wrote:
>
>>alebrewer <alebrewer@wt.net> wrote:
>>
>>>But, there is at least 6 hours of labor involved (probably 10 if I was to
>>>bottle) for each batch.
>>
>> If you're goping to start getting precise about it,
>>I would hope you're not spending six hours of constant
>>labor to brew a batch of beer.
>
>
> I never have understood the "labor" thing anyway. Personally I don't
> pay someone to brew my beer for me, so why factor labor costs into it?
> Either you spend time brewing because you like it as a hobby or you don't.
> IMO, trying to figure out how much it costs you to do your hobby with
> regards to labor charges is just plain silly.

If anything, the enjoyment of brewing should reduce the costs..

--
Dan

Date: 04 Aug 2006 09:01:07
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

Martik wrote:
>
> Here in Vancouver BC, Corona is now $26 a case (12) and approx $21 a case
> for the cheapest stuff you can find. Cost to brew your own is about $13 for
> FIVE 1/2 cases (malt, maltose, hops and yeast) Sometimes dented kit cans
> are on sale for $5.
> Need I say more?

If I factor in my time and equipment, it costs me far more to brew than
to buy beer. I brew because I enjoy the process, not to save money.

-------- >Denny

--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.

Date: 04 Aug 2006 13:59:42
From: Dan Logcher
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

Denny Conn wrote:

> Martik wrote:
>
>>Here in Vancouver BC, Corona is now $26 a case (12) and approx $21 a case
>>for the cheapest stuff you can find. Cost to brew your own is about $13 for
>>FIVE 1/2 cases (malt, maltose, hops and yeast) Sometimes dented kit cans
>>are on sale for $5.
>>Need I say more?
>
>
> If I factor in my time and equipment, it costs me far more to brew than
> to buy beer. I brew because I enjoy the process, not to save money.

Everyone's time has a different value. If someone has a lot of time on
their hands, equipment and ingredients are their only cost. It takes me
4 hours to brew a batch by myself, which isn't that much.

I definately have saved money in the long run, but I was lucky to inherit
a lot of gear (carboys, kegs, regs, tank). I've spent more since on the
kegerator, 20# tank, and parts. I will probably buy more kegs too, but all
these can be amortized over my brewing lifetime.

--
Dan

Date: 04 Aug 2006 06:38:52
From: Adam Preble
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

Martik wrote:
> Here in Vancouver BC, Corona is now $26 a case (12) and approx $21 a case
> for the cheapest stuff you can find. Cost to brew your own is about $13 for
> FIVE 1/2 cases (malt, maltose, hops and yeast) Sometimes dented kit cans
> are on sale for $5.
> Need I say more?
>

Amongst your beer items you forgot the constant hankerings for new
equipment. I'm reminded of a sheet of paper by the register at Austin
Homebrew. Goes something like:

Did you forget:
priming sugar
auto siphon
yeast fuel
...
...
...
15 gallon conical fermenter
...
...
...

Why yes, if they hadn't mentioned it, I would have forgotten that I went
there to pick up my conical fermenter! Thank God!

But since I've started doing this, I've gotten a kegerator, kegs of a
various sizes, a ton of bottles, all the ingredients, equipment, and
carboys, and recently the mill and refractometer. Somehow I justified
the mill as being cost efficient (see old posts). At some point the
gear hankerings have to stop; probably when I get a conical fermenter.

I don't plan to get one, but I didn't plan to get into all-grain, like I
didn't plan to start making beer in the first place. It is destiny.

Date: 04 Aug 2006 07:55:22
From: Jim
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

Adam Preble wrote on 8/4/2006 2:38 AM:
> Martik wrote:
>> Here in Vancouver BC, Corona is now $26 a case (12) and approx $21 a
>> case for the cheapest stuff you can find. Cost to brew your own is
>> about $13 for FIVE 1/2 cases (malt, maltose, hops and yeast)
>> Sometimes dented kit cans are on sale for $5.
>> Need I say more?
>
> Amongst your beer items you forgot the constant hankerings for new
> equipment. I'm reminded of a sheet of paper by the register at Austin
> Homebrew. Goes something like:
>
> Did you forget:
> priming sugar
> auto siphon
> yeast fuel
> ...
> ...
> ...
> 15 gallon conical fermenter
> ...
> ...
> ...
>
> Why yes, if they hadn't mentioned it, I would have forgotten that I went
> there to pick up my conical fermenter! Thank God!
>
> But since I've started doing this, I've gotten a kegerator, kegs of a
> various sizes, a ton of bottles, all the ingredients, equipment, and
> carboys, and recently the mill and refractometer. Somehow I justified
> the mill as being cost efficient (see old posts). At some point the
> gear hankerings have to stop; probably when I get a conical fermenter.
>
> I don't plan to get one, but I didn't plan to get into all-grain, like I
> didn't plan to start making beer in the first place. It is destiny.
You seen the new vessel? I am considering picking one up on my next
product binge/upgrade.

Jim

Date: 04 Aug 2006 11:12:33
From: Gerard Eberlein
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

"Jim" <Jim@no.com > wrote in message
news:GAGAg.24592$48.19598@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
> Adam Preble wrote on 8/4/2006 2:38 AM:
> > Martik wrote:
> >> Here in Vancouver BC, Corona is now $26 a case (12) and approx $21 a
> >> case for the cheapest stuff you can find. Cost to brew your own is
> >> about $13 for FIVE 1/2 cases (malt, maltose, hops and yeast)
> >> Sometimes dented kit cans are on sale for $5.
> >> Need I say more?
> >
> > Amongst your beer items you forgot the constant hankerings for new
> > equipment. I'm reminded of a sheet of paper by the register at Austin
> > Homebrew. Goes something like:
> >
> > Did you forget:
> > priming sugar
> > auto siphon
> > yeast fuel
> > ...
> > ...
> > ...
> > 15 gallon conical fermenter
> > ...
> > ...
> > ...
> >
> > Why yes, if they hadn't mentioned it, I would have forgotten that I went
> > there to pick up my conical fermenter! Thank God!
> >
> > But since I've started doing this, I've gotten a kegerator, kegs of a
> > various sizes, a ton of bottles, all the ingredients, equipment, and
> > carboys, and recently the mill and refractometer. Somehow I justified
> > the mill as being cost efficient (see old posts). At some point the
> > gear hankerings have to stop; probably when I get a conical fermenter.
> >
> > I don't plan to get one, but I didn't plan to get into all-grain, like I
> > didn't plan to start making beer in the first place. It is destiny.
> You seen the new vessel? I am considering picking one up on my next
> product binge/upgrade.
>
> Jim

Yes the initials investments are expensive but if he's saving $1500 a year
he will break even eventually. If he's an avid brewer, and is sounds like he
is, he will save money in the long haul. Let's just call it an invesment :)
Besides, you get to make beer you like to drink not what's offered to you at
the stores. Keep on brewing!!!!

Gerard

Date: 04 Aug 2006 22:07:32
From:
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

And you Canadians should lobby for lower alcohol taxes!

Martik wrote:
> <barnabyr@ureach.com> wrote in message
> news:1154749658.806457.54560@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> > Hey, somebody's gotta pay for your health care and retirement system in
> > Canada. Hmmm.... I pay more than $500 a month here in the US for health
> > insurance and health care.
>
> Move to Mexico, $200/year IMSS and the beer (cerveza) is almost free!
>
> Sorry to hear your insurance is so expensive - you Americans should lobby
> for changes!

Date: 07 Aug 2006 23:41:24
From: two bob
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

> And you Canadians should lobby for lower alcohol taxes!

LOL

>
>
>
> Martik wrote:
>> <barnabyr@ureach.com> wrote in message
>> news:1154749658.806457.54560@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>> > Hey, somebody's gotta pay for your health care and retirement system in
>> > Canada. Hmmm.... I pay more than $500 a month here in the US for health
>> > insurance and health care.
>>
>> Move to Mexico, $200/year IMSS and the beer (cerveza) is almost free!
>>
>> Sorry to hear your insurance is so expensive - you Americans should lobby
>> for changes!
>

Date: 04 Aug 2006 20:47:38
From:
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

Hey, somebody's gotta pay for your health care and retirement system in
Canada. Hmmm.... I pay more than $500 a month here in the US for health
insurance and health care.

Roger

>
> Alcohol taxes, especially here in Canada, will always diminish or eliminate
> the cost-effectiveness of mass production.
>
> A decent bottle of wine is now over $12, I can make it myself for less than
> $1. At a bottle a day, that's about $400/month vs $30 home made. In pre-tax
> dollars you would have to earn about $700 a month to pay for the wine. Not
> too bad for 3-4 hrs work.

Date: 05 Aug 2006 05:00:38
From: Martik
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

<barnabyr@ureach.com > wrote in message
news:1154749658.806457.54560@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> Hey, somebody's gotta pay for your health care and retirement system in
> Canada. Hmmm.... I pay more than $500 a month here in the US for health
> insurance and health care.

Move to Mexico, $200/year IMSS and the beer (cerveza) is almost free!

Sorry to hear your insurance is so expensive - you Americans should lobby
for changes!

Date: 04 Aug 2006 20:09:29
From: Sean
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

alebrewer wrote:

> The point is that, once you have accounted for all the costs, HB is not
> really cost effective. While there are things that can be done to
> improve the cost comparison (larger batch size, kegging, bulk buying of
> ingredients, etc...), it is hard to truly justify on a cost basis
> alone.
>
> Another way of saying this is that if you didn't enjoy the hobby, it
> wouldn't make sense. Provided you can buy the beer you like at a
> reasonable price, it would make more sense just to buy what you like
> when you want it.

I think the OP was saying that he couldn't buy what he liked for
a reasonable price. I also think that he mentioned "incentive" and not
cost alone. I can only speak for myself, so I put a very high value on
what I can produce. I don't want to be spoon fed what others think I
might like based on demographics and who knows what other blather. Who
else will make_ my _ESB or Indian Corn Cream ale or Scuppernong Braggot
Eiswine? No one would be that foolish. Except me :)

IMO, cost and value are not the same thing. Why not total up all
the benefits too? With all the ingredient factors, differences in water
quality and even local microflora, one is likely to get a unique
product that simply can't be matched easily. Even those who indulge in
the slightly more expensive gadgetry tend to learn things about
stainless steel fabrication, refrigeration, gas/water plumbing, etc.
which, last time I checked, are actually real world skills.

Cheers to flying your freak flag and life-long learning!

Sean

Date: 04 Aug 2006 17:42:38
From:
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

The point I was making, is that you brew for enjoyment, not to save
money. If you factor in equipment costs (plus, a reasonable rate of
return, had you invested the money), utilities (nobody commented on the
rising price of filling a propane tank), labor, inventory (supplies,
plus aging beer), there is no way brewing is cheaper than buying (at
least most) beer. Industrial societies came into existence because
division of labor is more cost-effective than doing it yourself.

Roger

Date: 05 Aug 2006 00:58:28
From: Martik
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

<barnabyr@ureach.com > wrote in message
news:1154738558.270045.66660@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> The point I was making, is that you brew for enjoyment, not to save
> money. If you factor in equipment costs (plus, a reasonable rate of
> return, had you invested the money), utilities (nobody commented on the
> rising price of filling a propane tank), labor, inventory (supplies,
> plus aging beer), there is no way brewing is cheaper than buying (at
> least most) beer. Industrial societies came into existence because
> division of labor is more cost-effective than doing it yourself.
>
> Roger
>

Alcohol taxes, especially here in Canada, will always diminish or eliminate
the cost-effectiveness of mass production.

A decent bottle of wine is now over $12, I can make it myself for less than
$1. At a bottle a day, that's about $400/month vs $30 home made. In pre-tax
dollars you would have to earn about $700 a month to pay for the wine. Not
too bad for 3-4 hrs work.

Date: 04 Aug 2006 16:50:49
From:
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty wrote:

> Yes -- I think if you substitute the word "masturbating" for "brewing"
> the fallacy becomes pretty clear. It becomes extra clear if you
> visualize how you might deduct "business losses accrued masturbating" on
> next year's tax return. Not that I'm sure someone hasn't tried...

Hey, next year after I turn pro I CAN make that deduction. ;)
Seriously I wonder if you can deduct your practice sessions if you are
a regular sperm doner.

>
> --
> (Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
>
> Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
> http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
>
> Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
> Buy several copies today!

Date: 05 Aug 2006 07:06:31
From: Dick Adams
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

<yournotauser@gmail.com > wrote:
> The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty wrote:

>> Yes -- I think if you substitute the word "masturbating" for "brewing"
>> the fallacy becomes pretty clear. It becomes extra clear if you
>> visualize how you might deduct "business losses accrued masturbating" on
>> next year's tax return. Not that I'm sure someone hasn't tried...

> Hey, next year after I turn pro I CAN make that deduction. ;)
> Seriously I wonder if you can deduct your practice sessions if you are
> a regular sperm doner.

ROTFLMAO!

Dick

Date: 04 Aug 2006 15:55:04
From: bregent
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

In article <sVxAg.182031$771.11231@edtnps89 >, Martik says...
>
>Here in Vancouver BC, Corona is now $26 a case (12) and approx $21 a case
>for the cheapest stuff you can find. Cost to brew your own is about $13 for
>FIVE 1/2 cases (malt, maltose, hops and yeast) Sometimes dented kit cans
>are on sale for $5.
>Need I say more?

$26 for a case (12 is a half case down here) of Corona? Is a Canadian case only
12 120z bottles?

Here in the States, things are a little better. I can get a full case of SNPA
for about $20 USD.

I'd be interested in seeing your breakdown of costs. $13 for 12 gallons of beer
is pretty good. I get pretty good prices on malt and hops and it's closer to $18
USD for 10 gallons. So the cost incentive is not nearly as great.

And regarding the time factor - if brewing is a hobby then time is not a
consideration. If cost is your primary incentive to brew your own, then you need
to consider the time you spend. I certainly wouldn't spent the time it takes me
to brew just to save money if I didn't enjoy the hobby.

Date: 05 Aug 2006 03:54:14
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

On 4 Aug 2006 15:55:04 -0700, <regent@dontspamme.newsguy.com > wrote:
> In article <sVxAg.182031$771.11231@edtnps89>, Martik says...
>>
>>Here in Vancouver BC, Corona is now $26 a case (12) and approx $21 a case
>>for the cheapest stuff you can find. Cost to brew your own is about $13 for
>>FIVE 1/2 cases (malt, maltose, hops and yeast) Sometimes dented kit cans
>>are on sale for $5.
>>Need I say more?
>
> $26 for a case (12 is a half case down here) of Corona?

I suspect he's talking about Canadian money. Still, even with the
exchange rate it's like $45 US for a (24) case. That's *really* high
for Corona.

John.

Date: 04 Aug 2006 23:59:41
From: Martik
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

"bregent" <regent@dontspamme.newsguy.com > wrote in message
news:eb0j8802dsq@drn.newsguy.com...
> In article <sVxAg.182031$771.11231@edtnps89>, Martik says...
>>
>>Here in Vancouver BC, Corona is now $26 a case (12) and approx $21 a case
>>for the cheapest stuff you can find. Cost to brew your own is about $13
>>for
>>FIVE 1/2 cases (malt, maltose, hops and yeast) Sometimes dented kit cans
>>are on sale for $5.
>>Need I say more?
>
> $26 for a case (12 is a half case down here) of Corona? Is a Canadian case
> only
> 12 120z bottles?

Yes, 12 x 355ml (12 oz)
>
> Here in the States, things are a little better. I can get a full case of
> SNPA
> for about $20 USD.
>
> I'd be interested in seeing your breakdown of costs. $13 for 12 gallons of
> beer
> is pretty good. I get pretty good prices on malt and hops and it's closer
> to $18
> USD for 10 gallons. So the cost incentive is not nearly as great.

That's 5 Canadian gallons (160oz) of beer

Breakdown is:
Windsor ale yeast $1
Pale ale malt 1.6kg $7
Maltose 2 kg = $4
Northern brewer hops 28g $1

I could save maybe 25-30% if purchased in larger quantities but at 20cents a
bottle vs over $2 who cares.

Date: 07 Aug 2006 09:29:22
From: bregent
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

In article <NbRAg.152559$I61.49421@clgrps13 >, Martik says...
>
>That's 5 Canadian gallons (160oz) of beer
>
>Breakdown is:
>Windsor ale yeast $1
>Pale ale malt 1.6kg $7
>Maltose 2 kg = $4
>Northern brewer hops 28g $1
>
>I could save maybe 25-30% if purchased in larger quantities but at 20cents a
>bottle vs over $2 who cares.

OK, your cases are what we call half cases, so homebrewing costs are about the
same (don't forget to factor in fuel costs though). The big different is in
purchasing commercial beer, which seems to run greater than 2x for you guys.
That really sucks.

Date: 07 Aug 2006 18:51:42
From: Martik
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

"bregent" <regent@dontspamme.newsguy.com > wrote in message
news:eb7pp201i2v@drn.newsguy.com...
> In article <NbRAg.152559$I61.49421@clgrps13>, Martik says...
>>
>>That's 5 Canadian gallons (160oz) of beer
>>
>>Breakdown is:
>>Windsor ale yeast $1
>>Pale ale malt 1.6kg $7
>>Maltose 2 kg = $4
>>Northern brewer hops 28g $1
>>
>>I could save maybe 25-30% if purchased in larger quantities but at 20cents
>>a
>>bottle vs over $2 who cares.
>
> OK, your cases are what we call half cases, so homebrewing costs are about
> the
> same (don't forget to factor in fuel costs though). The big different is
> in
> purchasing commercial beer, which seems to run greater than 2x for you
> guys.
> That really sucks.
>
At 6cents/kwh the boil costs me 6.5cents per batch

Date: 04 Aug 2006 15:53:32
From: alebrewer
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

Martik wrote:
> "John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" <spam@shagg.net> wrote in message
> news:slrned6vuv.jpk.spam@weizen.shagg.net...
> > On Fri, 4 Aug 2006 17:01:16 +0000 (UTC), <plutchak@see.headers> wrote:
> >> alebrewer <alebrewer@wt.net> wrote:
> >>>But, there is at least 6 hours of labor involved (probably 10 if I was to
> >>> bottle) for each batch.
> >>
> >> If you're goping to start getting precise about it,
> >> I would hope you're not spending six hours of constant
> >> labor to brew a batch of beer.
> >
> > I never have understood the "labor" thing anyway. Personally I don't
> > pay someone to brew my beer for me, so why factor labor costs into it?
> > Either you spend time brewing because you like it as a hobby or you don't.
> > IMO, trying to figure out how much it costs you to do your hobby with
> > regards to labor charges is just plain silly.
> >
>
> I agree, you cannot put a price on your FREE time. If I did, I would never
> cook at home. And I don't understand the huge capital startup costs
> discussed here. A primary, carboy, hydrometer is all that is really required
> to make decent beer. You can usually find those items at a garage sale for
> under $20 and new for $40-50. I use both used plastic soda 'bottles'
> 500/1000ml and the 473ml swing-top bottles I got free from the local pub.
> The brew made with this simple equipment is already so much superior to most
> local brands I never bothered to venture into more exotic methods.

The reason you have to put a price on your time is the OP was comparing
the PRICE of commerical beer to the COST of the ingredients of HB. If
you don't account for the labor (and other costs), you're comparing
Apples to Horseshoes. While you can debate on what price to put on
your time, if you ignore it (or put some unrealistic price, such as
$0.05 per hour), then your comparision is unfairly slanted to the
result that is emotionally desired. If you are going to do that, there
is no reason to make a comparison in the first place. To use a
metaphor already posted, you're just performing mental masturbation.

The point is that, once you have accounted for all the costs, HB is not
really cost effective. While there are things that can be done to
improve the cost comparison (larger batch size, kegging, bulk buying of
ingredients, etc...), it is hard to truly justify on a cost basis
alone.

Another way of saying this is that if you didn't enjoy the hobby, it
wouldn't make sense. Provided you can buy the beer you like at a
reasonable price, it would make more sense just to buy what you like
when you want it. Because many people do enjoy the hobby, many people
brew. It isn't for the cost savings, it's for the enjoyment of the
hobby.

As for the amount of time spent on a batch, six hours is probably
somewhat conservative. If you only want to count the time actually
spent stirring the pot, try to get a mechanic to only charge you the
time he spent actually turning a wrench when you get your car repaired.

ab

Date: 05 Aug 2006 04:00:10
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

On 4 Aug 2006 15:53:32 -0700, <alebrewer@wt.net > wrote:
> The reason you have to put a price on your time is the OP was comparing
> the PRICE of commerical beer to the COST of the ingredients of HB. If
> you don't account for the labor (and other costs), you're comparing
> Apples to Horseshoes. While you can debate on what price to put on
> your time, if you ignore it (or put some unrealistic price, such as
> $0.05 per hour), then your comparision is unfairly slanted to the
> result that is emotionally desired.

I had a dream about homebrew last night. I figure that must have cost
me at least $36/hour times 8 hours. Wow, maybe I should stay awake
24/7 in the future, I'd sure be a lot richer.

John.

Date: 04 Aug 2006 14:19:25
From: (East Bay) Phil
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

Interesting thread. I will say that when I mention my hobby to those
with no grasp of the process, it's an intriguing bit of trivia to note
the cost/bottle, time excepted. That said, I, too, brew because I enjoy
the process, prefer the results, and enjoy creating things. It doesn't
hurt that it saves money.

I find that as I brew more, my tastes expand beyond what's available for
comparison at the store. In that sense, there's no direct price
comparison. Sometimes, in an effort to try something new, I'll come
upon a new style that strikes my fancy. That I can (maybe) make 50
bottles for the price of 4 is a bonus.

For those who want to think about costs, consider not just time, but
equipment, research, spousal condemnation, etc.... You really have to
love this hobby for far more than $$$ savings to put up with the kind of
guff my S.O. gives me for the cases of aging bottles, large number of
carboys and kegs, occasional mess, etc....

Getting back to process, I have to say that brewing hits a great balance
in personal satisfaction. I admit that I feel paternal towards my beer
projects. I like that I conceive of a plan, things may or may not
conform to plan, and then I setup the conditions for the beer to take on
a life of its own. It's probably like childrearing minus the
frustration and time. And if you don't like how one turns-out, child
protective services won't whisk you away for dumping it on the street.

Phil

Date: 04 Aug 2006 19:23:55
From: Walter Venables
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

Well the way I see it most people add their labor cost in the price of their
brew. In my opinion it is like cooking a steak dinner at home if you add up
the cost of going to the grocery store including gas adding on your labor
cost for the hour or so you are cooking, the cost of electricity etc.
wouldn't it be cheaper to go to your local steakhouse?

Besides if you have a full time job that you go to while your beer is
brewing aren't you actually getting paid to brew?

I brew and make wine for the enjoyment of it.

Date: 04 Aug 2006 11:28:44
From:
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Aug 2006 17:01:16 +0000 (UTC), <plutchak@see.headers> wrote:
> > alebrewer <alebrewer@wt.net> wrote:
> >>But, there is at least 6 hours of labor involved (probably 10 if I was to
> >> bottle) for each batch.
> >
> > If you're goping to start getting precise about it,
> > I would hope you're not spending six hours of constant
> > labor to brew a batch of beer.
>
> I never have understood the "labor" thing anyway. Personally I don't
> pay someone to brew my beer for me, so why factor labor costs into it?
> Either you spend time brewing because you like it as a hobby or you don't.
> IMO, trying to figure out how much it costs you to do your hobby with
> regards to labor charges is just plain silly.
>
>
> John.

Also, if you wouldn't actually have been making money during the time
you were brewing I don't see how they claim any value over what they
would have been doing otherwise. If they are figuring in labor costs
to brew their beer they need to figure in labor costs to surf the web,
or read "The Economist", or whatever they do when they aren't actually
making money.

Bryan

p.s. This post cost $3.15 in labor. (Slow poster.)

Date: 04 Aug 2006 14:32:46
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

yournotauser@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Also, if you wouldn't actually have been making money during the time
> you were brewing I don't see how they claim any value over what they
> would have been doing otherwise. If they are figuring in labor costs
> to brew their beer they need to figure in labor costs to surf the web,
> or read "The Economist", or whatever they do when they aren't actually
> making money.
>
> Bryan
>
> p.s. This post cost $3.15 in labor. (Slow poster.)
>

Yes -- I think if you substitute the word "masturbating" for "brewing"
the fallacy becomes pretty clear. It becomes extra clear if you
visualize how you might deduct "business losses accrued masturbating" on
next year's tax return. Not that I'm sure someone hasn't tried...

--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)

Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html

Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!

Date: 04 Aug 2006 22:07:00
From: T.J. Higgins
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

In article <44d3a0c2$0$2548$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com >, The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty wrote:
>Yes -- I think if you substitute the word "masturbating" for "brewing"
>the fallacy becomes pretty clear. It becomes extra clear if you
>visualize how you might deduct "business losses accrued masturbating" on
>next year's tax return. Not that I'm sure someone hasn't tried...

Your masturbatory visualizations are far different from mine! :^)

--
TJH

tjhiggin.at.hiwaay.dot.net

Date: 05 Aug 2006 18:15:44
From: Droopy
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

oh, I see he was talking about 12 packs.....

But anyway on that logic....why not bake your own bread, raise your own
chickens and make your own clothes from wool and you shave off your
dogs butt?

And yes, my dog has a very soft butt.

Droopy wrote:
> Martik wrote:
> > <barnabyr@ureach.com> wrote in message
> > news:1154663992.099721.270370@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > > Brewing beer to save money is as cost effective as buying a
> > > recreational boat to save money on fish.
> > >
> > > Roger
> > >
> >
> > Lets see, $26 * 5.5 cases = $143
> >
> > Brew my own $13
> >
> > Difference $130
> >
> > If we go thru 1 batch a month that's $1560/yr or $52,872 in 20 years at 5%
> >
>
>
> You get 5.5 cases for 13 bucks?
>
> My yield for a 5 gallon batch is more like 2 cases.....

Date: 06 Aug 2006 05:36:01
From: Martik
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

"Droopy" <Droopy68516@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1154826944.586977.15100@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> oh, I see he was talking about 12 packs.....
>
>
> But anyway on that logic....why not bake your own bread, raise your own
> chickens and make your own clothes from wool and you shave off your
> dogs butt?

Not much saving doing those vs. buying.

With alcohol there is a much greater potential savings due to astronomical
taxes

Date: 05 Aug 2006 18:11:35
From: Droopy
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

Martik wrote:
> <barnabyr@ureach.com> wrote in message
> news:1154663992.099721.270370@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > Brewing beer to save money is as cost effective as buying a
> > recreational boat to save money on fish.
> >
> > Roger
> >
>
> Lets see, $26 * 5.5 cases = $143
>
> Brew my own $13
>
> Difference $130
>
> If we go thru 1 batch a month that's $1560/yr or $52,872 in 20 years at 5%
>

You get 5.5 cases for 13 bucks?

My yield for a 5 gallon batch is more like 2 cases.....

Date: 06 Aug 2006 00:32:26
From: Jay Seigfreid
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

"Martik" <martik.no.spam.please@invalid.net > wrote in message
news:sVxAg.182031$771.11231@edtnps89...
> Here in Vancouver BC, Corona is now $26 a case (12) and approx $21 a case
> for the cheapest stuff you can find. Cost to brew your own is about $13
for
> FIVE 1/2 cases (malt, maltose, hops and yeast) Sometimes dented kit cans
> are on sale for $5.
> Need I say more?
>
I brewed my first batch in 1982. While I have added a few things to my
collection, I started with a very basic kit, fermentation bucket, bottle
capper, hoses, and racking cane. I started brewing for two reasons. First
was the beer like I drank in Europe and the second was cost. I am still
using the fermenter I got in 1982. The bottle capper died in 2002.
Including my turkey fryer, I probably have well under $300 in equipment
purchased over the last 24 years. I like Fuller's ESB. At over $3 a bottle
retail for a 16oz bottle, I can brew 40 16 oz bottles for about $1 per
bottle. It took a while to get it right but the recipe is very good and
economical.

Date: 06 Aug 2006 06:28:39
From: Scotty B
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

Lets face it. Nobody homebrews just to save money. These equations only
factor in when you're trying to justify new equipment to a spouse (in
which case you leave out intagibles like labor).

Scotty B

Date: 06 Aug 2006 18:38:47
From: Dick Adams
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

Scotty B <michaellasalle@gmail.com > wrote:

> Lets face it. Nobody homebrews just to save money. These equations
> only factor in when you're trying to justify new equipment to a
> spouse (in which case you leave out intagibles like labor).

Of course homebrewing saves both labor and money. I am a CPA
and a JoN (Juggler of Numbers). The labor savings comes from
my childbride not having to make trips to the liquor store to
replenish my stash. Part of the cost savings comes from not
buying expensive beers. Equipment expenses get capitalized
so they become assets, not expenses.

Understanding this becomes much easier if you take a college
accounting course usually reserved for sports team coaches
and athletic directors - 'Slush Fund Accounting'.

Now if you are a super con artist, like mi amigo Johnny Mc,
you enter your beers in competitions and win awards. This
adds a competency factor and a family pride factor to the
equation and creates an illusion of one day making a profit
from your brewing skills.

This is a complex situation.

Dick :)

Date: 06 Aug 2006 21:38:43
From: Lefty Skywalker
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

Date: 07 Aug 2006 12:03:18
From: Larry Bristol
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

Martik wrote:

> Here in Vancouver BC, Corona is now $26 a case (12) and approx $21 a case
> for the cheapest stuff you can find. Cost to brew your own is about $13
> for FIVE 1/2 cases (malt, maltose, hops and yeast) Sometimes dented kit
> cans are on sale for $5. Need I say more?

My incentive: So I'll have something more interesting to talk about than
computers!

--
Larry Bristol --- The Double Luck
http://www.doubleluck.com

Date: 07 Aug 2006 17:41:56
From: Craig Bennett
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

Here in Ontario, Canada, you can get a case (24) for $24 2-4 for 2-4 deals.
but thats the basic cheap stuff.

A case of bud, blue, corona etc will cost $30+, and for good beers, you'll
pay more.

I'm sure the "real" cost of buying ommercial beer is less than brewing it
yourself, but once the government have put their hands on the commercial
beer, then homebrewing is cheaper. at least that's my experience.

One of the reasons I got into homebrewing was my resentment at paying ever
more taxes, not so much the cost of the beer, but my being aware of who my
money was going to. I figured this way I can at least hold a little more
back for myself....As it turned out, I really enjoy making beer !! and I'm
probably a few hundred dollars ahead per year, so its win win situation for
me.

Craig B.

"Martik" <martik.no.spam.please@invalid.net > wrote in message
news:sVxAg.182031$771.11231@edtnps89...
> Here in Vancouver BC, Corona is now $26 a case (12) and approx $21 a case
> for the cheapest stuff you can find. Cost to brew your own is about $13
> for FIVE 1/2 cases (malt, maltose, hops and yeast) Sometimes dented kit
> cans are on sale for $5.
> Need I say more?
>

Date: 07 Aug 2006 23:14:32
From: Walter Venables
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

I hear you Craig. When I visit my relatives in Ontario it cost me more for
beer and smokes than it does for the gas from Wisconsin

"Craig Bennett" <craig_b@nospam.nowhere.com > wrote in message
news:1tOBg.760$pt3.371@newsfe22.lga...
> Here in Ontario, Canada, you can get a case (24) for $24 2-4 for 2-4
deals.
> but thats the basic cheap stuff.
>
> A case of bud, blue, corona etc will cost $30+, and for good beers, you'll
> pay more.
>
> I'm sure the "real" cost of buying ommercial beer is less than brewing it
> yourself, but once the government have put their hands on the commercial
> beer, then homebrewing is cheaper. at least that's my experience.
>
> One of the reasons I got into homebrewing was my resentment at paying ever
> more taxes, not so much the cost of the beer, but my being aware of who my
> money was going to. I figured this way I can at least hold a little more
> back for myself....As it turned out, I really enjoy making beer !! and I'm
> probably a few hundred dollars ahead per year, so its win win situation
for
> me.
>
> Craig B.
>
>
>
> "Martik" <martik.no.spam.please@invalid.net> wrote in message
> news:sVxAg.182031$771.11231@edtnps89...
> > Here in Vancouver BC, Corona is now $26 a case (12) and approx $21 a
case
> > for the cheapest stuff you can find. Cost to brew your own is about $13
> > for FIVE 1/2 cases (malt, maltose, hops and yeast) Sometimes dented kit
> > cans are on sale for $5.
> > Need I say more?
> >
>
>

Date: 08 Aug 2006 15:52:55
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

On Mon, 7 Aug 2006 17:41:56 -0400, <craig_b@nospam.nowhere.com > wrote:
> Here in Ontario, Canada, you can get a case (24) for $24 2-4 for 2-4 deals.
> but thats the basic cheap stuff.
>
> A case of bud, blue, corona etc will cost $30+, and for good beers, you'll
> pay more.

Bud and Corona aren't the cheap stuff? Yikes!

John.

Date: 08 Aug 2006 23:12:33
From: Craig Bennett
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

nope !

There's steelers, laker, lakeport, presidents choice...and a bunch of
others, all taste remarkably similar to bud/corona/blue/molson etc....I dont
really care for any of them.

"John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" <spam@shagg.net > wrote in message
news:slrnedhcv4.omo.spam@weizen.shagg.net...
> On Mon, 7 Aug 2006 17:41:56 -0400, <craig_b@nospam.nowhere.com> wrote:
>> Here in Ontario, Canada, you can get a case (24) for $24 2-4 for 2-4
>> deals.
>> but thats the basic cheap stuff.
>>
>> A case of bud, blue, corona etc will cost $30+, and for good beers,
>> you'll
>> pay more.
>
> Bud and Corona aren't the cheap stuff? Yikes!
>
>
> John.

Date: 08 Aug 2006 14:45:22
From: John Krehbiel
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

Martik wrote:
> I agree, you cannot put a price on your FREE time.

Sure you can. I just retired from a job in retail, where I was paid
doubletime to work Sundays. If I had been offered time-and-a half I
would not have worked Sundays.

I was working two jobs, about 85 hours a week. My "free" time was
bloody expensive.

Date: 08 Aug 2006 22:39:44
From: Martik
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

"John Krehbiel" <j_krehbiel@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1155073522.553240.118800@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Martik wrote:
>> I agree, you cannot put a price on your FREE time.
>
> Sure you can. I just retired from a job in retail, where I was paid
> doubletime to work Sundays. If I had been offered time-and-a half I
> would not have worked Sundays.
>
> I was working two jobs, about 85 hours a week. My "free" time was
> bloody expensive.
>

That's my point, it was not your FREE time. I suppose one could argue that
there is NO free time as long as there is paid work available but how much
money does one need? In my case I am retired so all my time is FREE.

Date: 08 Aug 2006 18:29:31
From: Wheat
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

"Martik" <martik.no.spam.please@invalid.net > wrote in message
news:Qo8Cg.193586$S61.101616@edtnps90...
>
> "John Krehbiel" <j_krehbiel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1155073522.553240.118800@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Martik wrote:
>>> I agree, you cannot put a price on your FREE time.
>>
>> Sure you can. I just retired from a job in retail, where I was paid
>> doubletime to work Sundays. If I had been offered time-and-a half I
>> would not have worked Sundays.
>>
>> I was working two jobs, about 85 hours a week. My "free" time was
>> bloody expensive.
>>
>
> That's my point, it was not your FREE time. I suppose one could argue that
> there is NO free time as long as there is paid work available but how much
> money does one need? In my case I am retired so all my time is FREE.

I've frequently asked that question when people like the US Vice-President
get a 20 million dollar bonus when retiring from Haliburton. Or when Martha
Stewart decides to do some insider trading to make a few bucks more!

I'm retired also and value my free time much more than money!

There is a game called "He who dies with the most money wins"! I'm not a
participant. :)

Sorry, hope I didn't offend anyone.

Bill

Date: 09 Aug 2006 19:14:09
From: Martik
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

"Wheat" <kotosho@netscape.net > wrote in message
news:SuSdnbJfyo3up0TZnZ2dnUVZ_tadnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>
> "Martik" <martik.no.spam.please@invalid.net> wrote in message
> news:Qo8Cg.193586$S61.101616@edtnps90...
>>
>> "John Krehbiel" <j_krehbiel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1155073522.553240.118800@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> Martik wrote:
>>>> I agree, you cannot put a price on your FREE time.
>>>
>>> Sure you can. I just retired from a job in retail, where I was paid
>>> doubletime to work Sundays. If I had been offered time-and-a half I
>>> would not have worked Sundays.
>>>
>>> I was working two jobs, about 85 hours a week. My "free" time was
>>> bloody expensive.
>>>
>>
>> That's my point, it was not your FREE time. I suppose one could argue
>> that there is NO free time as long as there is paid work available but
>> how much money does one need? In my case I am retired so all my time is
>> FREE.
>
> I've frequently asked that question when people like the US Vice-President
> get a 20 million dollar bonus when retiring from Haliburton. Or when
> Martha Stewart decides to do some insider trading to make a few bucks
> more!
>
> I'm retired also and value my free time much more than money!
>
> There is a game called "He who dies with the most money wins"! I'm not a
> participant. :)
>
> Sorry, hope I didn't offend anyone.
>
Yes, on my death bed I will think "Gee, I wish I spent more time at the
office"

Date: 08 Aug 2006 14:41:05
From: John Krehbiel
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

alebrewer wrote:
> Of course, there is also the issue of quality to consider. I suspect
> there are many local brews available in Vancouver that I would prefer
> over Corona at a more reasonable price.
>
> ab

Availability too. I can't buy Koelsch, Altbier, Mild, etc. locally.
That's the biggest advantage for me.

Date: 08 Aug 2006 14:33:26
From: John Krehbiel
Subject: Re: Incentive to brew your own - Beer prices in your area!

barnabyr@ureach.com wrote:
> Brewing beer to save money is as cost effective as buying a
> recreational boat to save money on fish.
>
> Roger

I agree from a purely economic point of view, but I'd rather spend 25
bucks or so on a batch of really good beer than on the couple of cases
of swill or the three sixpacks of good beer I would be able to buy.

For me it's a question of a limited supply of money, and a slightly
less limited supply of time. That's why it's a hobby and not a
business.

That said, I have argued the same way myself.