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Date: 21 Jul 2006 05:42:43
From: trequites
Subject: Immersion Chilling
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I always do my primary fermentation in a large plastic bucket. After
the boil is finished I leave it for about 15 minutes for everything to
settle down then run the wort into the fermentation bucket. The
immersion chiller goes in the bucket and I cool it down to pitching
temperature.
Is this the best way to do it? Or should I chill in the kettle and run
it into the fermentation bucket when it's cooled? Or doesn't it make
any difference?
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Date: 21 Jul 2006 15:04:06
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Immersion Chilling
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On 21 Jul 2006 05:42:43 -0700, <spam.me.trequites@spamgourmet.com > wrote:
> I always do my primary fermentation in a large plastic bucket. After
> the boil is finished I leave it for about 15 minutes for everything to
> settle down then run the wort into the fermentation bucket. The
> immersion chiller goes in the bucket and I cool it down to pitching
> temperature.
>
> Is this the best way to do it? Or should I chill in the kettle and run
> it into the fermentation bucket when it's cooled? Or doesn't it make
> any difference?
Theoretically it is a better idea to only move around your wort after it
is cool. This gets into the whole "HSA" (Hot Side Aeration) thing, which is
an often debated topic. Most people agree that it exists, but disagree on
exactly how much you need to abuse your wort before you'll have problems.
Basically, oxygen damage is more significant when the beer is above a
certain temp range (usually 85F+). So, it would be a good idea to chill
the wort in the kettle first, and then transfer it to your bucket. IMO,
this is how most homebrewers probably do it.
You'll have to decide for yourself how much difference it makes and which
method you prefer. Personally, I chill in the kettle and transfer it to
the fermenter after it's cool.
John.
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Date: 21 Jul 2006 09:49:40
From: Gerard Eberlein
Subject: Re: Immersion Chilling
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"trequites" <spam.me.trequites@spamgourmet.com > wrote in message
news:1153485763.060131.235010@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> I always do my primary fermentation in a large plastic bucket. After
> the boil is finished I leave it for about 15 minutes for everything to
> settle down then run the wort into the fermentation bucket. The
> immersion chiller goes in the bucket and I cool it down to pitching
> temperature.
>
> Is this the best way to do it? Or should I chill in the kettle and run
> it into the fermentation bucket when it's cooled? Or doesn't it make
> any difference?
>
Also if you are doing late hop additions for flavour, the longer the wort
stays hot the more hop flavour and aroma are lost as it steams away.
Chilling as fast as possible after the boil is in your favor.
Gerard
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Date: 21 Jul 2006 09:16:25
From: Jim Stansell
Subject: Re: Immersion Chilling
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On 21 Jul 2006 05:42:43 -0700, "trequites"
<spam.me.trequites@spamgourmet.com > wrote:
>I always do my primary fermentation in a large plastic bucket. After
>the boil is finished I leave it for about 15 minutes for everything to
>settle down then run the wort into the fermentation bucket. The
>immersion chiller goes in the bucket and I cool it down to pitching
>temperature.
>
>Is this the best way to do it? Or should I chill in the kettle and run
>it into the fermentation bucket when it's cooled? Or doesn't it make
>any difference?
You should chill in your boil kettle if at all possible for several
reasons. First, by chilling in the boil kettle, you simply sanitize
the chiller by dropping it in the boil for the last 15 minutes or so.
Second, it gives you the opportunity to leave more hop/break material
behind in the kettle (although this may not matter much). Third, by
transferring the wort hot instead of chilled, you open yourself up to
hot side aeration.
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Date: 21 Jul 2006 06:17:37
From: MarkMc
Subject: Re: Immersion Chilling
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I agree, I found that it was simplest to put the chiller in to the
kettle, giving the benefit of sterilisation. Of course you want it to
be pretty clean anyway before putting it in there. Also you're not
transferring any hot wort around the place, so there's less risk of HSA
or accidents/burns.
I found that thethe chiller created convection currents in the boiler
anyway, and also that the chilling was quicker if I stirred the beer
(sanitised paddle) very gently, every few minutes. When down to
fermenting temps, I would then remove the chiller, put a lid on the
boiler and let it settle for 15 mins before running off.
I've now made a CFC, as yet, unused as part of a brew session, but I
intend to circulate the wort through it and back to the boiler for 5
minutes to sterilise it, before leaving the wort to rest/settle. I'll
then run it off/chill it and aerate it on the way to the fermenter
(I've made an inline aerator too).
Regards,
Mark
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Date: 21 Jul 2006 09:10:30
From: Dan Logcher
Subject: Re: Immersion Chilling
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trequites wrote:
> I always do my primary fermentation in a large plastic bucket. After
> the boil is finished I leave it for about 15 minutes for everything to
> settle down then run the wort into the fermentation bucket. The
> immersion chiller goes in the bucket and I cool it down to pitching
> temperature.
>
> Is this the best way to do it? Or should I chill in the kettle and run
> it into the fermentation bucket when it's cooled? Or doesn't it make
> any difference?
No. You should put the immersion chiller into the boiling pot during the
last part of the boil. I put mine in 5 minutes before the end so it kills
off any bugs that the B-Brite didn't get.. I suppose you could put it in
right when you turn off the heat also.
Chilling should take long enough for things to settle, so don't wait before
you start to chill.
--
Dan
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Date: 22 Jul 2006 10:05:13
From: trequites
Subject: Re: Immersion Chilling
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As my kettle is on the other side of the kitchen to the water, this may
require a major re-think of my brewing set-up.
Can anyone tell me what sort of off-flavours (or off-flavors if you're
American) Hot Side Aeration is meant to produce? I've never heard of it
before.
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Date: 23 Jul 2006 00:18:55
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: Immersion Chilling
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On 22 Jul 2006 10:05:13 -0700, <spam.me.trequites@spamgourmet.com > wrote:
> As my kettle is on the other side of the kitchen to the water, this may
> require a major re-think of my brewing set-up.
>
> Can anyone tell me what sort of off-flavours (or off-flavors if you're
> American) Hot Side Aeration is meant to produce? I've never heard of it
> before.
Same stuff associated with oxidation, which is what HSA is. IE, stale
or cardboard type flavors. IMO, just run a hose across the kitchen or
else pickup and move the kettle. Moving a boiling hot kettle can be done
with a little care. That's what I have to do for mine. I boil in the
kitchen, but the utility tub I use for chilling is in the laundry room
next to the kitchen. I just put on some oven mits and carry the kettle
over.
John.
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Date: 22 Jul 2006 22:35:53
From: Dan Logcher
Subject: Re: Immersion Chilling
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John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> On 22 Jul 2006 10:05:13 -0700, <spam.me.trequites@spamgourmet.com> wrote:
>
>>As my kettle is on the other side of the kitchen to the water, this may
>>require a major re-think of my brewing set-up.
>>
>>Can anyone tell me what sort of off-flavours (or off-flavors if you're
>>American) Hot Side Aeration is meant to produce? I've never heard of it
>>before.
>
>
> Same stuff associated with oxidation, which is what HSA is. IE, stale
> or cardboard type flavors. IMO, just run a hose across the kitchen or
> else pickup and move the kettle. Moving a boiling hot kettle can be done
> with a little care. That's what I have to do for mine. I boil in the
> kitchen, but the utility tub I use for chilling is in the laundry room
> next to the kitchen. I just put on some oven mits and carry the kettle
> over.
Or setup a cooler of ice water and recycle it with a fountain pump.
I got sick of running a long hose from my bathroom to the kitchen,
since my kitchen sink wouldn't work with a chiller connection. I used to
move the kettle to the bathroom, but its a pain and I want to keep
everything close to the sink.
--
Dan
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Date: 22 Jul 2006 12:52:25
From: Larry Bristol
Subject: Re: Immersion Chilling
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trequites wrote:
> Can anyone tell me what sort of off-flavours (or off-flavors if you're
> American) Hot Side Aeration is meant to produce? I've never heard of it
> before.
Hot Side Aeration (HSA for short) refers to the introduction of oxygen into
hot wort. Note the very significant difference between HSA, the
introduction of oxygen into *cool* wort prior to fermentation, and the
introduction of oxygen into the beer *after* fermentation. Respectively,
these things are bad, good, and bad.
Since introduction of oxygen into cool wort is a good thing, the question
often becomes why introduction of oxygen a little earlier, while the wort
is still hot, is considered a bad thing. The explanation is that if
oxygen is introduced while the wort is still hot, chemical reactions will
occur that bond the oxygen into other molecules. It will not be available
to the yeast during aerobic fermentation, but after the beer is finished,
this oxygen is slowly released back into the beer, causing the same sort of
damage as is done by the introduction of oxygen post-fermentation.
I should point out at this time that AFAIK, all of this is pure speculation.
I know of no evidence proving that HSA has any impact, negative or
otherwise, on the finished beer. I am infamous on the HBD for proposing a
few years ago that HSA is not a problem at all, and that all of the
supposed damage with which it is associated is, in fact, actually caused by
witches! That created quite a stir! I am not interested in a debate, but
merely want to emphasize that HSA may be one of the *last* things a home
brewer should address in improving his/her brewing technique.
I don't know whether it causes any damage or not, but in my personal brewing
style, I attempt to minimize it. That way, if it really is a problem, then
I am doing my best, and if it doesn't... well, better safe than sorry?
Reading the BJCP study materials, there seems to be little difference
between the impact of HSA and "regular" oxidation in finished beer. The
descriptions are essentially the same - staleness, sherry-like, cardboard,
reduction in hop bitterness, blandness. I don't know about your place, but
finished beer at the Double Luck seldom lasts long enough to display such
characteristics. <grin >
--
Larry Bristol --- The Double Luck
http://www.doubleluck.com
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Date: 23 Jul 2006 09:14:43
From: Gerard Eberlein
Subject: Re: Immersion Chilling
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As far as HSA goes...isn't the boil releasing tons of oxygen into the hot
wort as it bubbles for an hour? I'm assuming there is hydrogen and oxygen
being released throught the boil. Then again I never was too good at
science.
Gerard
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Date: 23 Jul 2006 09:01:00
From: Larry Bristol
Subject: Re: Immersion Chilling
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Gerard Eberlein wrote:
> As far as HSA goes...isn't the boil releasing tons of oxygen into the hot
> wort as it bubbles for an hour? I'm assuming there is hydrogen and oxygen
> being released throught the boil. Then again I never was too good at
> science.
AFAIK, all dissolved gasses will quickly be released when the wort comes to
a boil. The problem in the case of HSA is that the oxygen is not merely
dissolved in the wort, but chemically bonded to it.
Water does not break down into elemental hydrogen and oxygen by the physical
act of boiling it. Too bad! If it did, we could use hydrogen as a cheap
fuel source! OTOH, I guess if it was this easy to split water into
hydrogen and oxygen, it wouldn't release much energy when burned, and
wouldn't be particularly useful as a fuel. :-/
--
Larry Bristol --- The Double Luck
http://www.doubleluck.com
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Date: 25 Jul 2006 05:22:20
From: trequites
Subject: Re: Immersion Chilling
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"staleness, sherry-like, cardboard, reduction in hop bitterness,
blandness" - well, I'm not getting anything like that in my beers so I
guess I'm OK and it's nothing to worry about.
But carrying a hot kettle with 5 gallons of near boiling point liquid
across my kitchen? Oh no. No no no no no. With my current method all
the hot stuff is at ground level and I just have to lift it an inch or
so off the ground and move it about 3 feet. I can manage that OK.
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