| |
Main
Date: 30 Oct 2006 13:19:09
From:
Subject: Identifying a "funk"... water?
|
Hey all... I'm trying to help my brother out on his homebrewing endeavors. He
and I have both moved to all-grain a year or so ago. I've had a number of his
beers, and he's had a number of mine. It never fails that we each exclaim, "Boy, this
one has your funk to it." I may be biased, but it seems like his has "more" of a
back-of-the-throat flavor that I cannot quite describe.
Anyway, we're trying to identify and hopefully rectify this. I've begun to
convince myself that it's due to the difference in the water. I use city water here
in Virginia that does not seem to have an excessive amount of chlorine in it. He on
the other hand uses well-water in Wisconsin. Their well has a rather high iron
content, and is not all that great to drink by itself. Because of that, he's been
using the water run through a water softener.
Any ideas on which is the lesser evil and/or how to identify/remedy it?
Thanks,
-Cory
--
*************************************************************************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
*************************************************************************
|
|
| |
Date: 30 Oct 2006 09:02:48
From: Mike A.
Subject: Re: Identifying a "funk"... water?
|
papenfussDIESPAM@juneauDOTmeDOTvt.edu wrote:
> I've never noticed anything funky about my beer that makes the water
> suspect. Of course I'm used to it as well... my brother's used to his so he calls my
> beer "funky." I might get soem campden tablets anyway and see if I can tell a
> difference.
Oh, I thought you were saying both yours and your brothers beer had a
funk to it. I think he should at least try a batch with different
water to see if that's really the problem.
|
| | |
Date: 30 Oct 2006 18:19:17
From:
Subject: Re: Identifying a "funk"... water?
|
Mike A. <miander2@yahoo.com > wrote:
: papenfussDIESPAM@juneauDOTmeDOTvt.edu wrote:
: > I've never noticed anything funky about my beer that makes the water
: > suspect. Of course I'm used to it as well... my brother's used to his so he calls my
: > beer "funky." I might get soem campden tablets anyway and see if I can tell a
: > difference.
: Oh, I thought you were saying both yours and your brothers beer had a
: funk to it. I think he should at least try a batch with different
: water to see if that's really the problem.
Well, he says mine has a funk. I say his has a funk. I'm sure that we're both used to our own,
but I've substantiated the claim that his is "funkier" through third parties.... :)
I don't see what it could be otherwise. I've even helped him make some while I've been there...
procedure, crush, mash, sparge, etc, etc all the same. ... AND the beer I helped make while there had
the funk too. That's what made me think it had to be the water.
-Cory
--
*************************************************************************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
*************************************************************************
|
| | | |
Date: 31 Oct 2006 10:51:07
From: Mark R
Subject: Re: Identifying a "funk"... water?
|
<papenfussDIESPAM@juneauDOTmeDOTvt.edu > wrote in message news:ei5fn5$124
> I don't see what it could be otherwise. I've even helped him make
some while I've been there...
> procedure, crush, mash, sparge, etc, etc all the same. ... AND the beer I
helped make while there had
> the funk too. That's what made me think it had to be the water.
Around here when they install water softeners they tap off the water supply
before the softener so the water to the kitchen sink and the fridge if you
have a ice machine and or water dispenser is non softened. They recommend
non softened water for cooking and drinking, that should go for brewing too.
Mark R
|
| |
Date: 30 Oct 2006 07:49:47
From: Mike A.
Subject: Re: Identifying a "funk"... water?
|
papenfussDIESPAM@juneauDOTmeDOTvt.edu wrote:
> I use city water here
> in Virginia that does not seem to have an excessive amount of chlorine in it.
The VPI water authority uses chloramine treatment for water, which can
be detrimental to your beer. It can easily be removed by using campden
tablets, 1 per 20 gallons. Try a batch using bottled spring water to
see if there's any difference.
|
| | |
Date: 30 Oct 2006 16:18:43
From:
Subject: Re: Identifying a "funk"... water?
|
: The VPI water authority uses chloramine treatment for water, which can
: be detrimental to your beer. It can easily be removed by using campden
: tablets, 1 per 20 gallons. Try a batch using bottled spring water to
: see if there's any difference.
I've never noticed anything funky about my beer that makes the water
suspect. Of course I'm used to it as well... my brother's used to his so he calls my
beer "funky." I might get soem campden tablets anyway and see if I can tell a
difference.
I just saw the campden tablet thing... that might be useful for him to remove
chlorine added to precipitate out iron. Hrm...
-Cory
--
*************************************************************************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
*************************************************************************
|
| |
Date: 30 Oct 2006 07:34:24
From:
Subject: Re: Identifying a "funk"... water?
|
papenfussDIESPAM@juneauDOTmeDOTvt.edu wrote:
> Hey all... I'm trying to help my brother out on his homebrewing endeavors. He
> and I have both moved to all-grain a year or so ago. I've had a number of his
> beers, and he's had a number of mine. It never fails that we each exclaim, "Boy, this
> one has your funk to it." I may be biased, but it seems like his has "more" of a
> back-of-the-throat flavor that I cannot quite describe.
>From BYO: http://byo.com/mrwizard/746.html
"In general I do not suggest using water from salt-based softeners for
brewing - or drinking for that matter - because the water usually
tastes funky."
|
| | |
Date: 30 Oct 2006 15:53:21
From:
Subject: Re: Identifying a "funk"... water?
|
: >From BYO: http://byo.com/mrwizard/746.html
: "In general I do not suggest using water from salt-based softeners for
: brewing - or drinking for that matter - because the water usually
: tastes funky."
Yeah, I've been doing some reading on that this morning and it seems to be the
general concensus. Unfortunately, most of the discussion WRT softened water is due to
Calcium and Magnesium deposts.... not Iron. The few things I saw about iron for
brewing is basically, "don't."
SO, I've got a couple of WAG theories here on what could be done:
- Use softened water and "re-harden" it with Gypsum, etc, etc to "build" up a desired
water profile. The main disadvantage to this would be the increased sodium from the
water softener.
- Use activated carbon filter. Lots of people claim to use them for this purpose, but
from what I read they are not supposed to do much to remove dissolved metals.
- Try to pre-treat the water with an iron-removing process. Of course a $1k
filtration system is out of the question, but apparently the dissolved iron can be
removed by precipitating and then particulate-filtering the result. Precipitation can
be induced by oxidizing through aeration, heating, or chlorinating. Maybe a
combination of those and then run through a carbon filter to remove any residual
chlorine?
Sheesh... I may have stumbled into a quagmire here. He *has* been having
troubles with yeast attenuation using the softened water. From what I've read the
lack of minerals might have something to do with that too.
-Cory
--
*************************************************************************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
*************************************************************************
|
| | | |
Date: 30 Oct 2006 16:16:39
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: Identifying a "funk"... water?
|
papenfussDIESPAM@juneaudotmedotvt.edu wrote:
> : >From BYO: http://byo.com/mrwizard/746.html
>
> : "In general I do not suggest using water from salt-based softeners for
> : brewing - or drinking for that matter - because the water usually
> : tastes funky."
>
> Yeah, I've been doing some reading on that this morning and it seems to be the
> general concensus. Unfortunately, most of the discussion WRT softened water is due to
> Calcium and Magnesium deposts.... not Iron. The few things I saw about iron for
> brewing is basically, "don't."
>
> SO, I've got a couple of WAG theories here on what could be done:
> - Use softened water and "re-harden" it with Gypsum, etc, etc to "build" up a desired
> water profile. The main disadvantage to this would be the increased sodium from the
> water softener.
From what I've read I think all the added/leftover salts in softened
water will create mor ehavoc than the decrease in calcium. There was a
thread a while back on the effect of adding salts to wort.
> - Use activated carbon filter. Lots of people claim to use them for this purpose, but
> from what I read they are not supposed to do much to remove dissolved metals.
howtobrew.com has a great overview of the effects of minerals on
brewing. Have you gotten a thorough water assay on both water supplies
yet? My water (here in NY) s fairly high in iron but it seems to have
zero effect on my beer.
> to pre-treat the water with an iron-removing process. Of course a $1k
> filtration system is out of the question, but apparently the dissolved iron can be
> removed by precipitating and then particulate-filtering the result. Precipitation can
> be induced by oxidizing through aeration, heating, or chlorinating. Maybe a
> combination of those and then run through a carbon filter to remove any residual
> chlorine?
>
> Sheesh... I may have stumbled into a quagmire here. He *has* been having
> troubles with yeast attenuation using the softened water. From what I've read the
> lack of minerals might have something to do with that too.
>
> -Cory
Bottled water. 3 gallon bottles for a coupla bucks.
JB
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
|
| | | | |
Date: 30 Oct 2006 16:32:39
From:
Subject: Re: Identifying a "funk"... water?
|
: > - Use activated carbon filter. Lots of people claim to use them for this purpose, but
: > from what I read they are not supposed to do much to remove dissolved metals.
: howtobrew.com has a great overview of the effects of minerals on
: brewing. Have you gotten a thorough water assay on both water supplies
: yet? My water (here in NY) s fairly high in iron but it seems to have
: zero effect on my beer.
I've got the local municiple supply sending me some for mine. Dunno if he'll
be able to find his... should have had one done when they bought the place.
: > Sheesh... I may have stumbled into a quagmire here. He *has* been having
: > troubles with yeast attenuation using the softened water. From what I've read the
: > lack of minerals might have something to do with that too.
: >
: > -Cory
: Bottled water. 3 gallon bottles for a coupla bucks.
The biggest problem with that isn't so much the expense, but the lack of
requirement to plan ahead. Having to go buy water all the time is a PITA. It's nicer
to have everything that you need on-hand.
-Cory
: -----------------------------------------------
: John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
: The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
--
*************************************************************************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
*************************************************************************
|
| | | | | |
Date: 30 Oct 2006 16:38:29
From: John Bleichert
Subject: Re: Identifying a "funk"... water?
|
papenfussDIESPAM@juneaudotmedotvt.edu wrote:
> : > - Use activated carbon filter. Lots of people claim to use them for this purpose, but
> : > from what I read they are not supposed to do much to remove dissolved metals.
>
> : howtobrew.com has a great overview of the effects of minerals on
> : brewing. Have you gotten a thorough water assay on both water supplies
> : yet? My water (here in NY) s fairly high in iron but it seems to have
> : zero effect on my beer.
>
> I've got the local municiple supply sending me some for mine. Dunno if he'll
> be able to find his... should have had one done when they bought the place.
>
> : > Sheesh... I may have stumbled into a quagmire here. He *has* been having
> : > troubles with yeast attenuation using the softened water. From what I've read the
> : > lack of minerals might have something to do with that too.
> : >
> : > -Cory
>
> : Bottled water. 3 gallon bottles for a coupla bucks.
>
> The biggest problem with that isn't so much the expense, but the lack of
> requirement to plan ahead. Having to go buy water all the time is a PITA. It's nicer
> to have everything that you need on-hand.
>
> -Cory
>
Yeah, I can certainly agree with that. Actually, I used bottled water
up until I switched to all-grain.
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syborg@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
|
| |
Date: 30 Oct 2006 09:25:21
From: Mark R
Subject: Re: Identifying a "funk"... water?
|
<papenfussDIESPAM@juneauDOTmeDOTvt.edu > wrote in message news:ei4u4d$4j4
>
> Any ideas on which is the lesser evil and/or how to identify/remedy it?
>
> Thanks,
> -Cory
More a WAG than an educated opinion as I've never had to deal with either
problem, but I'd say the high iron is the lesser of the two. I think I've
read some comments here about not wanting to use "softened" water but I
couldn't say why.
Mark R
|
| |
Date: 30 Oct 2006 08:47:36
From: Dan Logcher
Subject: Re: Identifying a "funk"... water?
|
papenfussDIESPAM@juneauDOTmeDOTvt.edu wrote:
> Hey all... I'm trying to help my brother out on his homebrewing endeavors. He
> and I have both moved to all-grain a year or so ago. I've had a number of his
> beers, and he's had a number of mine. It never fails that we each exclaim, "Boy, this
> one has your funk to it." I may be biased, but it seems like his has "more" of a
> back-of-the-throat flavor that I cannot quite describe.
>
> Anyway, we're trying to identify and hopefully rectify this. I've begun to
> convince myself that it's due to the difference in the water. I use city water here
> in Virginia that does not seem to have an excessive amount of chlorine in it. He on
> the other hand uses well-water in Wisconsin. Their well has a rather high iron
> content, and is not all that great to drink by itself. Because of that, he's been
> using the water run through a water softener.
>
> Any ideas on which is the lesser evil and/or how to identify/remedy it?
He might want to install a carbon filter. I put a GE performance under the kitchen
sink that comes with a spigot. The filter lasts 6 months, and does a good job of
getting out a lot of funk. My water isn't bad, but we occasionally have iron and
manganese in higher concentrations. It stains clothes, dishes, the inside of the
dishwasher..
The filter was easy to install once I punched a slug thru the stainless steel sink.
The plumbing for this filter was simple, took less than an hour. The filters are
twist-lock and can be replaced without shutting off water. $65 for the whole set
and $29 for the replacement filters.
--
Dan
|
| |
Date: 31 Oct 2006 11:22:21
From: davemchine@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Identifying a "funk"... water?
|
I also run my water through a carbon filter to get rid off off flavors.
But when I hear that a brewer has consistent flavors from one beer to
the next I usually think about the yeast. Is he using the exact same
yeast for each beer type? Is he using dry yeast? I think both of these
factors could cause a certain flavor to be in each beer he brews. Also,
I've found that notingham yeast leaves a bit of an after taste. Another
question, does he control his fermenting temperature? If not he could
be getting a consistent "off" flavor there as well.
Dave
|
|
