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Main
Date: 07 Jul 2006 07:45:47
From: GeoffT
Subject: IPA recipe help
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Hi there,
I've only just started designing my own recipes so I'd appreciate it if
anyone gave this a quick look. Any tips are appreciated. This is for 5
imperial gallons, or 6 US gallons. The SG falls at 1.055, so i'll
probably boil it down a little more to bump that up. Also, I live in a
very soft water area so I want to harden up the water with some gypsum.
Is 4 teaspoons overkill?
Amount Item Type % or IBU
10 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 89.7 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (78.8 EBC) Grain 4.3 %
6.4 oz Wheat, Torrified (3.3 EBC) Grain 3.4 %
4.8 oz Amber Malt (43.3 EBC) Grain 2.6 %
2.50 oz Northern Brewer [7.00%] (60 min) Hops 46.9 IBU
0.75 oz Cascade [5.50%] (15 min) Hops 6.1 IBU
0.75 oz Cascade [5.50%] (2 min) Hops 0.9 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50%] (Dry Hop 3 days)
Mash:152.0 F 90 min
Yeast:WLP007 Dry English Ale
Thanks.
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Date: 07 Jul 2006 10:45:06
From: Larry Bristol
Subject: Re: IPA recipe help
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GeoffT wrote:
> This is for 5 imperial gallons, or 6 US gallons. The SG falls at 1.055,
> so i'll probably boil it down a little more to bump that up.
If you then add water to bring the volume back to 6 US gallons, there is no
net change. However, 1.055 falls within the BJCP guidelines (1.050-1.075)
for an IPA. BTW: You did not specify a subcategory, amd the recipe has
conflicting indicators; I am assuming a traditional English IPA as opposed
to an American IPA.
> Also, I live in a very soft water area so I want to harden up the water
> with some gypsum. Is 4 teaspoons overkill?
Water chemistry is FAR more complicated than a simple answer could address,
and I would need to know more details about the water you are starting
with, and how much water you are treating. All I can tell you is that I
normally brew with distilled water, adding about 1.75 grams of gypsum per
gallon for a beer of this type. Measuring it by weight is better than by
volume. [But since you probably do not want all that much information,
anyway, I will simply say, "No, 4 teaspoons does not sound like overkill to
me."]
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 10 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 89.7 %
> 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (78.8 EBC) Grain 4.3 %
> 6.4 oz Wheat, Torrified (3.3 EBC) Grain 3.4 %
> 4.8 oz Amber Malt (43.3 EBC) Grain 2.6 %
Personally, I would not use any amount of wheat in a traditional IPA. I'll
assume it's there because you want some protein to enhance head formation
and retention? IMHO, you don't need to do this for an IPA.
> 2.50 oz Northern Brewer [7.00%] (60 min) Hops 46.9 IBU
> 0.75 oz Cascade [5.50%] (15 min) Hops 6.1 IBU
> 0.75 oz Cascade [5.50%] (2 min) Hops 0.9 IBU
> 1.00 oz Cascade [5.50%] (Dry Hop 3 days)
I get totally different IBU numbers when I feed these quantities into my
recipe calculator! I get 70.1, 4.4, and 2.8 IBUs, respectively, for a
total of 77.3! OK, I'm a hop head, so I would say, "GO FOR IT!" but this
is higher than the guidelines (40-60) for an IPA. How did you determine
the IBU numbers you listed? It would help if you specified whether you
used whole hops or pellets, as the alpha-acid extraction rates for these
types are different.
Again, this is an opinion, but I do not think American hop varieties
(especially Cascades) should be used in an English IPA. If I was judging
this beer in a competition, I would regard the flavor and aroma of Cascade
hops a significant DEFECT within an English IPA. [Hmmm... OK, so it's a
STRONG opinion, and one that is actually sanctioned by the BJCP!] If you
are making an American IPA, of course, then Cascade hops are perfectly
fine.
> Mash:152.0 F 90 min
> Yeast:WLP007 Dry English Ale
You said, "Any tips are appreciated." Let me give you the BEST tip anyone
can you regarding recipe formulation:
MAKE YOUR BEER THE WAY YOU LIKE IT!
That's all that really matters. If you are making beer for competion, of
course, then study the BJCP guidelines and follow them closely. Oh, you
can get them at: http://www.bjcp.org
BTW: I claim the rights to one bottle of this brew! Let me know when it is
ready, and I'll send you my shipping address! :-)
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Date: 07 Jul 2006 15:45:05
From: Duke
Subject: Re: IPA recipe help
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"GeoffT" <sonic_death_monkey@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1152283547.590773.216920@s53g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> Hi there,
>
> I've only just started designing my own recipes so I'd appreciate it if
> anyone gave this a quick look. Any tips are appreciated. This is for 5
> imperial gallons, or 6 US gallons. The SG falls at 1.055, so i'll
> probably boil it down a little more to bump that up. Also, I live in a
> very soft water area so I want to harden up the water with some gypsum.
> Is 4 teaspoons overkill?
>
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 10 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 89.7 %
> 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (78.8 EBC) Grain 4.3 %
> 6.4 oz Wheat, Torrified (3.3 EBC) Grain 3.4 %
> 4.8 oz Amber Malt (43.3 EBC) Grain 2.6 %
> 2.50 oz Northern Brewer [7.00%] (60 min) Hops 46.9 IBU
> 0.75 oz Cascade [5.50%] (15 min) Hops 6.1 IBU
> 0.75 oz Cascade [5.50%] (2 min) Hops 0.9 IBU
> 1.00 oz Cascade [5.50%] (Dry Hop 3 days)
>
> Mash:152.0 F 90 min
>
> Yeast:WLP007 Dry English Ale
>
> Thanks.
>
Hi GeoffT,
If it were me I would remove the Wheat from the grain bill. Of course this
is your IPA, but I do not think wheat is typically used in this style of
brew. If you are using the wheat for the purposes of head retention then
just use a bit of CaraPils instead. Other than that is sounds yummy. :)
HTH,
Duke
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Date: 07 Jul 2006 22:32:12
From: Gerard Eberlein
Subject: Re: IPA recipe help
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I used northern brewer for bittering in both my IPA's and they came out
nice. I used 2 oz in 1 and 1.5 in another. Then again I like more hop
flavour than bitter but to me those amounts seemed fine for my taste. I
think the IBU's on mine were 30 and 45.Not as bitter as some IPA's but not
as sweet as an APA, kinda in the middle. I did alot of late hop additions
for flavour and a ton in the dry hopping.
Gerard
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Date: 07 Jul 2006 14:45:24
From: Ryan Case
Subject: Re: IPA recipe help
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GeoffT wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I've only just started designing my own recipes so I'd appreciate it if
> anyone gave this a quick look. Any tips are appreciated. This is for 5
> imperial gallons, or 6 US gallons. The SG falls at 1.055, so i'll
> probably boil it down a little more to bump that up. Also, I live in a
> very soft water area so I want to harden up the water with some gypsum.
> Is 4 teaspoons overkill?
>
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 10 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 89.7 %
> 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (78.8 EBC) Grain 4.3 %
> 6.4 oz Wheat, Torrified (3.3 EBC) Grain 3.4 %
> 4.8 oz Amber Malt (43.3 EBC) Grain 2.6 %
> 2.50 oz Northern Brewer [7.00%] (60 min) Hops 46.9 IBU
> 0.75 oz Cascade [5.50%] (15 min) Hops 6.1 IBU
> 0.75 oz Cascade [5.50%] (2 min) Hops 0.9 IBU
> 1.00 oz Cascade [5.50%] (Dry Hop 3 days)
>
> Mash:152.0 F 90 min
>
> Yeast:WLP007 Dry English Ale
>
> Thanks.
>
As others have said, I would drop the wheat. If it is head retention you
are looking for, I have had good results with 1/2lb of flaked barley per
5 gallon.
If you want a beautiful color, try trading your 4.8oz of Amber for 8oz
of Victory.
I've never used Northern Brewer, I usually use either Magnum or Columbus
to bitter an IPA. I like the Cascade for aroma a lot though.
Why a 90 min mash?
Just some random thoughts.
Ryan
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Date: 07 Jul 2006 16:50:18
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: IPA recipe help
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On 7 Jul 2006 07:45:47 -0700, <sonic_death_monkey@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I've only just started designing my own recipes so I'd appreciate it if
> anyone gave this a quick look. Any tips are appreciated. This is for 5
> imperial gallons, or 6 US gallons. The SG falls at 1.055, so i'll
> probably boil it down a little more to bump that up. Also, I live in a
> very soft water area so I want to harden up the water with some gypsum.
> Is 4 teaspoons overkill?
>
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 10 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 89.7 %
> 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (78.8 EBC) Grain 4.3 %
> 6.4 oz Wheat, Torrified (3.3 EBC) Grain 3.4 %
> 4.8 oz Amber Malt (43.3 EBC) Grain 2.6 %
> 2.50 oz Northern Brewer [7.00%] (60 min) Hops 46.9 IBU
> 0.75 oz Cascade [5.50%] (15 min) Hops 6.1 IBU
> 0.75 oz Cascade [5.50%] (2 min) Hops 0.9 IBU
> 1.00 oz Cascade [5.50%] (Dry Hop 3 days)
I like just pale and crystal in my IPAs, but there's lots of room for
interpretation there. The wheat will help with head retention. I'm not
sure if you'll really notice anything from the Amber malt, personally
I'd just skip it.
I'd also bump up the IBU, if it were my beer. I like a lot of hops in my
IPAs. Maybe make it an even 3 oz of the Northern Brewer. That should give
you somewhere around a total of 60 IBU (although I'm just guestimating).
John.
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Date: 08 Jul 2006 06:21:37
From: GeoffT
Subject: Re: IPA recipe help
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Thanks for the help guys, I appreciate it very much.
I'm not going for an English or American IPA per se, I suppose it's a
hybrid of the two. I'm not too worried about entering it into a BJCP
competition (although I wouldn't mind one day) I just want to make a
decent IPA. I'll drop the wheat as recommended and possibly the amber.
I might use some carapils in place of half of the crystal (to lighten
the colour), perhaps.
I'm using this brew to finish off the last of my grain so 10.5 Lb is
all I have, so what I mean is I might decide to do 5US gallons on the
day to up the SG, and not worry about the extra hoppiness.
Gypsum is the only addition I can make to my water (it's all I have)
and I dont know my precise water chemistry yet (oddly the report I was
sent doesn't include the important compounds). I'm aware it's a complex
issue but for now I'm going to go for the 4tsp of gypsum as the water
in Scotland is very soft indeed.
I'm confused about the IBU contributions, BeerSmith gives me 46.9 and
Promash gives me 65.3 for the bittering addition... Can anyone shed any
light on this? I'm using whole hops. The reason for Cascade is because
they seem to be ubiquitous in American IPA's in Ray Daniels' 'Designing
Great Beers'. I owe that book alot so I'm going to stick with the
Cascades. Plus, I've never tried Cascade so I fancy seeing what they're
like. I loves my hops anyway so I'm not worried about high IBU's. Maybe
next time I'll use Goldings but I'm still learning.
Why not a 90 minute mash by the way? Too long/short?
Again thanks for the advice and I'll definately send you a bottle Larry
once it's ready!
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Date: 09 Jul 2006 01:33:15
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: IPA recipe help
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On 8 Jul 2006 06:21:37 -0700, <sonic_death_monkey@hotmail.com > wrote:
> I'm confused about the IBU contributions, BeerSmith gives me 46.9 and
> Promash gives me 65.3 for the bittering addition... Can anyone shed any
> light on this?
There are several formulas for estimating the IBU level, each has it's
own advantages/disadvantages depending on how you brew. The formulas can
give you very different numbers. IIRC, the default formula for Promash
is different than the one for BeerSmith, so it's not surprising that you
got very different answers from each program. As you can tell, calculating
the IBUs is far from an exact science. IMO, regarding which of the three
formulas to use, it doesn't really matter. Just pick one and stick with it.
> Why not a 90 minute mash by the way? Too long/short?
There's nothing wrong with a 90 minute mash. Many people do 60 minutes,
but 90 is fine too.
John.
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Date: 08 Jul 2006 11:51:28
From: Larry Bristol
Subject: Re: IPA recipe helto have 20.p
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GeoffT wrote:
> I'm not going for an English or American IPA per se, I suppose it's a
> hybrid of the two. I'm not too worried about entering it into a BJCP
> competition (although I wouldn't mind one day) I just want to make a
> decent IPA. I'll drop the wheat as recommended and possibly the amber.
> I might use some carapils in place of half of the crystal (to lighten
> the colour), perhaps.
Make the beer YOU like! :-) It seems that most folks are recommending to
forego the wheat. So why not simply replace it with carapils?
> I'm using this brew to finish off the last of my grain so 10.5 Lb is
> all I have, so what I mean is I might decide to do 5US gallons on the
> day to up the SG, and not worry about the extra hoppiness.
If you do that, you will raise the gravity, and the hops calculations will
change remarkably. The IBUs will go up, but not in the same proportion as
the gravity.
> Gypsum is the only addition I can make to my water (it's all I have)
> and I dont know my precise water chemistry yet (oddly the report I was
> sent doesn't include the important compounds). I'm aware it's a complex
> issue but for now I'm going to go for the 4tsp of gypsum as the water
> in Scotland is very soft indeed.
Good grief!!! Why not make a wee heavy, for cryin' out loud! :-)
> I'm confused about the IBU contributions, BeerSmith gives me 46.9 and
> Promash gives me 65.3 for the bittering addition... Can anyone shed any
> light on this?
There are different formula for IBU calculations. Obviously, BeerSmith and
ProMash are using different ones. It's all but impossible to determine
which might be right. The only way to do that would be to send your beer
into a lab (after the fact) to have it's IBUs analyzed. IMHO, a brewer
should treat these IBU calculations simply in a RELATIVE sense, in that a
beer calculated to have 40 is going to be "twice" as bitter as one
calculated (using the same method) to have 20. Pick a formula you like,
and use it all the time for consistency. Use your TASTE buds to tell
whether the IBUs in the beer are "right" for a given profile.
> I'm using whole hops.
I prefer them, personally. I like to use them as a filter bed while moving
the wort from the kettle to the fermenter. There is slightly more
alpha-acid extraction from pelletized hops.
> The reason for Cascade is because they seem to be ubiquitous in American
> IPA's in Ray Daniels' 'Designing Great Beers'.
No argument about that! :-)
> I owe that book alot so I'm going to stick with the Cascades. Plus,
> I've never tried Cascade so I fancy seeing what they're like.
You'll find them spicy, grassy, citrus-y. Some love them, some are less
fond of them. In my opinion, it depends on the beer you are making. Even
as I type this, I am sparging a 10 gallon batch of a recipe I call "Bounced
Czech" that uses some Cascades as first wort hops, Perle's for more flavor,
and ends with some more Cascades. It's a combination I've grown fond of.
> Why not a 90 minute mash by the way? Too long/short?
Nothing wrong with it at all! All of my mashes are 90 minutes, followed by
a 30 minute mash out. I goota gtet back to the sparge!
> Again thanks for the advice and I'll definately send you a bottle Larry
> once it's ready!
I'm looking forward to it! <VBG >
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Date: 09 Jul 2006 11:22:11
From: David Edge
Subject: Re: IPA recipe helto have 20.p
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On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 11:51:28 -0500, Larry Bristol
<nospam@remove.doubleluck.com > wrote:
>> Gypsum is the only addition I can make to my water (it's all I have)
>> and I dont know my precise water chemistry yet (oddly the report I was
>> sent doesn't include the important compounds). I'm aware it's a complex
>> issue but for now I'm going to go for the 4tsp of gypsum as the water
>> in Scotland is very soft indeed.
quotting GeoffT
Geoff
The Scottish Craft Brewers have been discussing this topic recently -
why not link up with them?
website: http://www.scottishcraftbrewers.org/index.htm
Doscussion group:
http://login.yahoo.com/config/login?.intl=us&.src=ygrp&.done=http%3a//groups.yahoo.com%2Fgroup%2Fscottishcraftbrewers%2Fjoin
David Edge, Derby UK
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Date: 08 Jul 2006 22:53:47
From: David M. Taylor
Subject: Re: IPA recipe help
|
"GeoffT" <sonic_death_monkey@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1152283547.590773.216920@s53g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> Hi there,
>
> I've only just started designing my own recipes so I'd appreciate it if
> anyone gave this a quick look. Any tips are appreciated. This is for 5
> imperial gallons, or 6 US gallons. The SG falls at 1.055, so i'll
> probably boil it down a little more to bump that up. Also, I live in a
> very soft water area so I want to harden up the water with some gypsum.
> Is 4 teaspoons overkill?
>
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 10 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 89.7 %
> 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (78.8 EBC) Grain 4.3 %
> 6.4 oz Wheat, Torrified (3.3 EBC) Grain 3.4 %
> 4.8 oz Amber Malt (43.3 EBC) Grain 2.6 %
> 2.50 oz Northern Brewer [7.00%] (60 min) Hops 46.9 IBU
> 0.75 oz Cascade [5.50%] (15 min) Hops 6.1 IBU
> 0.75 oz Cascade [5.50%] (2 min) Hops 0.9 IBU
> 1.00 oz Cascade [5.50%] (Dry Hop 3 days)
>
> Mash:152.0 F 90 min
>
> Yeast:WLP007 Dry English Ale
Sounds like you've done your homework. Your recipe looks great. 4 tsp
gypsum is about right to emulate Burton water if your water is very soft.
Go for it!
Don't worry too much about using the wheat. I use wheat in most of my
beers, it sure doesn't hurt anything and might even help.
The 90-minute mash, yeah, maybe a bit long. I typically only do 45 minutes,
and my beers always turn out just fine. I wouldn't risk cutting it down to
30 minutes, but 45-60 minutes seems pretty standard, and 90 minutes, well,
it just seems like a waste of time, that's my very humble opinion.
--
Dave
"Just a drink, a little drink, and I'll be feeling GOOooOOooOOooD!" --
Genesis, 1973-ish
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Date: 08 Jul 2006 10:56:04
From: GeoffT
Subject: Re: IPA recipe helto have 20.p
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> Make the beer YOU like! :-) It seems that most folks are recommending to
> forego the wheat. So why not simply replace it with carapils?
I want to keep the dextrins pretty low, I like a dry beer. Am I right
in saying carapils is basically a flavourless & colourless version of
crystal malt? I think I'll do something like 4oz crystal and 4 oz of
carapils. I really have a compulsion to throw in some amber or munich
aswell.
> If you do that, you will raise the gravity, and the hops calculations will
> change remarkably. The IBUs will go up, but not in the same proportion as
> the gravity.
Good point!
> Good grief!!! Why not make a wee heavy, for cryin' out loud! :-)
Bizarrely I'd never heard of a wee heavy until I started browsing
American homebrew boards. I've heard of heavy, which is another name
for 70/-, but I gather thats different from a wee heavy? Confusing! I'm
not really into the shilling beers to be honest, like I said I need
some hops.
> There are different formula for IBU calculations. Obviously, BeerSmith and
> ProMash are using different ones. It's all but impossible to determine
> which might be right. The only way to do that would be to send your beer
> into a lab (after the fact) to have it's IBUs analyzed. IMHO, a brewer
> should treat these IBU calculations simply in a RELATIVE sense, in that a
> beer calculated to have 40 is going to be "twice" as bitter as one
> calculated (using the same method) to have 20. Pick a formula you like,
> and use it all the time for consistency. Use your TASTE buds to tell
> whether the IBUs in the beer are "right" for a given profile.
I know what you mean, It's just good to have a guide point. I've only
been brewing for a few months and this is only my 5th all-grain batch.
> You'll find them spicy, grassy, citrus-y. Some love them, some are less
> fond of them. In my opinion, it depends on the beer you are making. Even
> as I type this, I am sparging a 10 gallon batch of a recipe I call "Bounced
> Czech" that uses some Cascades as first wort hops, Perle's for more flavor,
> and ends with some more Cascades. It's a combination I've grown fond of.
Sounds nice. I used centenial hops once which were pretty grassy, and I
thought it was a flaw at first. Then I tried an ale in a micro in
Canada a few weeks ago and it tasted a bit like grass. Centennial, I
thought! I asked the guy and it turned out to be Cascades. It was
delicious so this recipe is inspired by that.
Thanks for the help again!
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Date: 08 Jul 2006 16:31:55
From: Larry Bristol
Subject: Re: IPA recipe helto have 20.p
|
GeoffT wrote:
> I want to keep the dextrins pretty low, I like a dry beer. Am I right
> in saying carapils is basically a flavourless & colourless version of
> crystal malt? I think I'll do something like 4oz crystal and 4 oz of
> carapils. I really have a compulsion to throw in some amber or munich
> aswell.
If you want to keep the dextrins low, don't use either carapils or crystal.
I think your description is fairly accurate. Crystal will add sweetness,
carapils will not, but both will add dextrins.
I recall you said you were mashing at 152F. If you want to reduce the
dextrins even further, lower that temp to say 148-150. Higher temperature
mashes promote dextrins. I typically mash at 154 because I *LIKE* a full
bodied beer (as long as it has a couple hundred IPUs to balance). :-)
Another oddity is that stiffer mashes (less water per pound of grain) tend
to promote dextrin production, all other factors being equal.
> Bizarrely I'd never heard of a wee heavy until I started browsing
> American homebrew boards. I've heard of heavy, which is another name
> for 70/-, but I gather thats different from a wee heavy? Confusing! I'm
> not really into the shilling beers to be honest, like I said I need
> some hops.
The term was probably invented by a yank pretending to have a Scottish
accent. <gin >
Many years ago, I had a friend who worked at the same company I did
(Occidental Petroleum out of Houston). He went over to Aberdeen for a
while, and when he came back stateside, he told me all about the beers he
had enjoyed while there. So we went out looking for a bar with a decent
selection of imports. Up until that day, I hated beer, but after tasting
the likes of Belhaven, McEwans, Guinness, Pilsner Urquell, et al, I was
hooked.
Then he told me that some of the folks he knew in Scotland were brewing
their own! We did some research, found a store in the area that sold
supplies and equipment, and a new hobby was born! I brewed my first batch
of "barley wine" (homemade wine was legal, but homebrew beer was not at the
time) on April 1, 1983. it was an appropriate date. Just look what it has
done to me!
> Sounds nice. I used centenial hops once which were pretty grassy, and I
> thought it was a flaw at first. Then I tried an ale in a micro in
> Canada a few weeks ago and it tasted a bit like grass. Centennial, I
> thought! I asked the guy and it turned out to be Cascades. It was
> delicious so this recipe is inspired by that.
Yes, there are some similarities between those hops. Centennial hops will
typically have a higher alpha-acid content, but the flavor profiles are
close. Cascades are the signature hops found in the classic Sierra Nevada
Pale Ale, and a lot of other American IPAs and Imperial IPAs.
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Date: 09 Jul 2006 02:03:22
From: GeoffT
Subject: Re: IPA recipe help
|
Decided on:
5 Imp gallons
10.5 lb maris otter
6oz crystal 40L
4oz carapils
3oz munich (to add a bit of malty interest)
2.5 oz NB 60mins
0.75 oz cascades @ 15 & 2 mins
1 oz cascades dry hop
Mashing at 152F
Going to stick with the 4tsp of Gypsum. Knowing that all the minerals
in my water are pretty low, and that the Burton upon trent profile is
high in calcium & sulfates (in the same proportion as contained in
gypsum). I reckon the Burton profile is the easiest to emulate for
those ignorant about water chemistry (like me).
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Date: 09 Jul 2006 21:34:03
From: Scott Sellers
Subject: Re: IPA recipe help
|
GeoffT <sonic_death_monkey@hotmail.com >:
>Decided on:
>5 Imp gallons
>10.5 lb maris otter
>6oz crystal 40L
>4oz carapils
>3oz munich (to add a bit of malty interest)
>2.5 oz NB 60mins
>0.75 oz cascades @ 15 & 2 mins
>1 oz cascades dry hop
[...]
Sounds fine -- you can make a good pale/ipa with straight MO.
But realistically, 3oz Munich isn't going to have much effect.
I'd go more like 5-10%.
Scott S
--
Scott Sellers
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Date: 10 Jul 2006 04:40:18
From: Steve/Aus
Subject: Re: IPA recipe help
|
"GeoffT" <sonic_death_monkey@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1152435802.745589.293180@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Decided on:
>
> 5 Imp gallons
>
> 10.5 lb maris otter
> 6oz crystal 40L
> 4oz carapils
> 3oz munich (to add a bit of malty interest)
>
> 2.5 oz NB 60mins
> 0.75 oz cascades @ 15 & 2 mins
> 1 oz cascades dry hop
>
> Mashing at 152F
>
> Going to stick with the 4tsp of Gypsum. Knowing that all the minerals
> in my water are pretty low, and that the Burton upon trent profile is
> high in calcium & sulfates (in the same proportion as contained in
> gypsum). I reckon the Burton profile is the easiest to emulate for
> those ignorant about water chemistry (like me).
Sounds good to me. I like my IPS's really hoppy so, to balance them out I
use quite a lot of crystal. My last IPA used 2.25lbs of crystal but then it
was hopped to 65IBU's.
I used to use carapils a bit but don't use it at all now, controlling body
with the mash schedule instead. 3oz of munich is going to be indiscernable
so you can either add more to make a difference or leave it out.
Also you're contradicting yourself by mashing low to avoid excessive
dextrins and adding carapils which is a high dextrin malt.
Steve W (in Aus)
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Date: 10 Jul 2006 08:57:08
From: GeoffT
Subject: Re: IPA recipe help
|
> On 10 Jul 2006 04:31:42 -0700, <sonic_death_monkey@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Sounds good to me. I like my IPS's really hoppy so, to balance them out I
> >> use quite a lot of crystal. My last IPA used 2.25lbs of crystal but then it
> >> was hopped to 65IBU's.
> >> I used to use carapils a bit but don't use it at all now, controlling body
> >> with the mash schedule instead. 3oz of munich is going to be indiscernable
> >> so you can either add more to make a difference or leave it out.
> >> Also you're contradicting yourself by mashing low to avoid excessive
> >> dextrins and adding carapils which is a high dextrin malt.
> >> Steve W (in Aus)
> >
> > I thought the carapils would add some head retention -- or can the same
> > thing be achieved by mashing higher?
>
> Head retention is generally about proteins which is why something like wheat
> works (contains more proteins than barley). Carapils, IIRC, contains both
> proteins and dextrins. Changing your mash temp will effect the sugar profile
> but I don't think it'll have too much effect on head retention.
>
> > I'll see how this goes anyway. I want this to be a recipe I brew
> > regularly, so I can tweak things like the crystal malt each time.
>
> IMO, one of the classic signs of a new recipe author is lots of unnecessary
> complication. You often see recipes with lots of different malts, generally
> of fairly low quantities... IE a couple ounces of this, a few ounces of
> that. The common thought pattern is that more complex means "better".
>
> Personally, I believe in trying to keep things simple rather than having
> complexity just for the sake of complexity. It's your beer, so you can
> brew anything you want, but if it were me I'd try to resist adding a
> handful of a bunch of different grains. You're probably not going to
> notice much effect, if any. Some extremely good beers can be made with
> very simple recipes.
>
> I think it's a lot easier to start as simple as possible and tweak from there,
> rather than starting complex and trying to figure out what to tweak.
>
>
> John.
Definately a good point, however I'm not haphazardly throwing in
handfuls of different grains. Most of my pale ales thus far have only
contained base malt and crystal. The reason I'm messing around with the
Munich malt is because I want to taste how it affects the finished
product in different quantities - I like the character it gives to a
beer. I know it will hardly be noticable but it doesn't do any harm,
plus it might give me an idea of how much to add to my lagers in the
Winter.
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Date: 10 Jul 2006 04:31:42
From: GeoffT
Subject: Re: IPA recipe help
|
> Sounds good to me. I like my IPS's really hoppy so, to balance them out I
> use quite a lot of crystal. My last IPA used 2.25lbs of crystal but then it
> was hopped to 65IBU's.
> I used to use carapils a bit but don't use it at all now, controlling body
> with the mash schedule instead. 3oz of munich is going to be indiscernable
> so you can either add more to make a difference or leave it out.
> Also you're contradicting yourself by mashing low to avoid excessive
> dextrins and adding carapils which is a high dextrin malt.
> Steve W (in Aus)
I thought the carapils would add some head retention -- or can the same
thing be achieved by mashing higher?
I'll see how this goes anyway. I want this to be a recipe I brew
regularly, so I can tweak things like the crystal malt each time.
Thanks for the scottish craft brewers link, David. I'll check that out
today.
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Date: 10 Jul 2006 14:17:30
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: IPA recipe help
|
On 10 Jul 2006 04:31:42 -0700, <sonic_death_monkey@hotmail.com > wrote:
>> Sounds good to me. I like my IPS's really hoppy so, to balance them out I
>> use quite a lot of crystal. My last IPA used 2.25lbs of crystal but then it
>> was hopped to 65IBU's.
>> I used to use carapils a bit but don't use it at all now, controlling body
>> with the mash schedule instead. 3oz of munich is going to be indiscernable
>> so you can either add more to make a difference or leave it out.
>> Also you're contradicting yourself by mashing low to avoid excessive
>> dextrins and adding carapils which is a high dextrin malt.
>> Steve W (in Aus)
>
> I thought the carapils would add some head retention -- or can the same
> thing be achieved by mashing higher?
Head retention is generally about proteins which is why something like wheat
works (contains more proteins than barley). Carapils, IIRC, contains both
proteins and dextrins. Changing your mash temp will effect the sugar profile
but I don't think it'll have too much effect on head retention.
> I'll see how this goes anyway. I want this to be a recipe I brew
> regularly, so I can tweak things like the crystal malt each time.
IMO, one of the classic signs of a new recipe author is lots of unnecessary
complication. You often see recipes with lots of different malts, generally
of fairly low quantities... IE a couple ounces of this, a few ounces of
that. The common thought pattern is that more complex means "better".
Personally, I believe in trying to keep things simple rather than having
complexity just for the sake of complexity. It's your beer, so you can
brew anything you want, but if it were me I'd try to resist adding a
handful of a bunch of different grains. You're probably not going to
notice much effect, if any. Some extremely good beers can be made with
very simple recipes.
I think it's a lot easier to start as simple as possible and tweak from there,
rather than starting complex and trying to figure out what to tweak.
John.
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Date: 10 Jul 2006 09:01:39
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: IPA recipe help
|
John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> > I thought the carapils would add some head retention -- or can the same
> > thing be achieved by mashing higher?
>
> Head retention is generally about proteins which is why something like wheat
> works (contains more proteins than barley). Carapils, IIRC, contains both
> proteins and dextrins. Changing your mash temp will effect the sugar profile
> but I don't think it'll have too much effect on head retention.
Really, head and head retention is more about not destroying the foam
positive elements in your beer than adding more. Underpitching or high
fermentation temps can destroy whatever kind of foam positive proteins
you add to your beer. Witness Duvel...nothing but pils malt and sugar,
but a head like whipped cream! This article..
http://www.byo.com/departments/1410.html
has one of the best discussions of head that I've seen, along with
methods to test whether you have enough foam positive elements or if
you're destroying them.
---------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 10 Jul 2006 16:08:50
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: IPA recipe help
|
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 09:01:39 -0700, <denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us > wrote:
> Really, head and head retention is more about not destroying the foam
> positive elements in your beer than adding more.
IMO, it's probably a combination of both. From my experience, adding
something like wheat definitely makes a difference. Could I achieve the
same thing by retaining more of the elements in my recipe without adding
the wheat? Probably, but adding more also works.
John.
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Date: 10 Jul 2006 09:26:06
From: Denny Conn
Subject: Re: IPA recipe help
|
John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> IMO, it's probably a combination of both. From my experience, adding
> something like wheat definitely makes a difference. Could I achieve the
> same thing by retaining more of the elements in my recipe without adding
> the wheat? Probably, but adding more also works.
Yeah, but if you're not keeping those elements, you can add all ya want
and it won't do any good. I assume you (like me) pitch big and control
your fermentation temp. That's why adding more proteins works for us.
The test Colby describes is a great way to determine if you need more
proteins or if you're destroying the "good stuff" you've got.
----------- >Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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Date: 10 Jul 2006 17:54:29
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: IPA recipe help
|
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 09:26:06 -0700, <denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us > wrote:
> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>
>> IMO, it's probably a combination of both. From my experience, adding
>> something like wheat definitely makes a difference. Could I achieve the
>> same thing by retaining more of the elements in my recipe without adding
>> the wheat? Probably, but adding more also works.
>
> Yeah, but if you're not keeping those elements, you can add all ya want
> and it won't do any good. I assume you (like me) pitch big and control
> your fermentation temp. That's why adding more proteins works for us.
> The test Colby describes is a great way to determine if you need more
> proteins or if you're destroying the "good stuff" you've got.
Good point. I guess it's yet another reason to keep your yeast happy and
control temps.
John.
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Date: 10 Jul 2006 23:20:20
From: Steve/Aus
Subject: Re: IPA recipe help
|
"John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" <spam@shagg.net > wrote in message
news:slrneb556l.sqc.spam@weizen.shagg.net...
> On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 09:26:06 -0700, <denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us> wrote:
>> John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
>>
>>> IMO, it's probably a combination of both. From my experience, adding
>>> something like wheat definitely makes a difference. Could I achieve the
>>> same thing by retaining more of the elements in my recipe without adding
>>> the wheat? Probably, but adding more also works.
>>
>> Yeah, but if you're not keeping those elements, you can add all ya want
>> and it won't do any good. I assume you (like me) pitch big and control
>> your fermentation temp. That's why adding more proteins works for us.
>> The test Colby describes is a great way to determine if you need more
>> proteins or if you're destroying the "good stuff" you've got.
>
> Good point. I guess it's yet another reason to keep your yeast happy and
> control temps.
>
>
> John.
Of course, another thing that people tend to overdo is the use of
floculents, in particular Irish Moss which can drag all the proteins out and
leave you with a headless thin beer.
Steve W (in Aus)
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Date: 10 Jul 2006 09:50:01
From: Larry Bristol
Subject: Re: IPA recipe help
|
John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
> IMO, one of the classic signs of a new recipe author is lots of
> unnecessary complication. You often see recipes with lots of different
> malts, generally of fairly low quantities... IE a couple ounces of this,
> a few ounces of that. The common thought pattern is that more complex
> means "better".
Excellent point, John, one that even experienced brewers would do well to
follow!
Several years ago, while I was just beginning to learn this hobby [I
continue to learn even now, of course!], I made a conscious decision that I
wanted to learn the impact that various ingredients had in a finished beer.
So I embarked on a campaign to brew small batches of what I called a simple
"standard" recipe over and over, varying one and *ONLY* one ingredient.
[After I gained some experience doing this, I learned I could usually vary
one grain ingredient and one hop ingredient in the same batch, but even
this was problematic at first.]
It was a lot of work, but the learning experience was remarkable! I really
only experimented with very basic common ingredients, not every kind of
malt or hop in existence. But I learned what these malts and hops really
taste and smell like, and how much was needed to obtain a given effect.
Once that was accomplished, I found I could quickly incorporate some "new"
ingredient into a recipe simply by reading a good description (or listening
to someone knowledgeable describing it). Those descriptions suddenly made
sense to me!
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