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Main
Date: 24 Nov 2006 21:58:57
From: Bill Crisafulli
Subject: How to motorize a malt mill
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I have been keeping my eyes open for a motor to use to motorize my JSP Malt
Mill. My electric garage door opener was replaced, and I salvaged the motor
from the unit. While it had a bit of trouble raising the hundreds of pounds
of garage door, I suspect it will have plenty of power and torque to mill
grain. So I opened the housing and removed the motor. Now I've got a motor
with three wires coming out (I assume the white one is hot and the red and
blue ones are forward and reverse direction but I haven't figured that out
yet) and the bracket to mount it to a board.
The question is, how do I connect the shaft of the motor to the shaft of the
mill? I assume that I should get some gear/belt guides to attach to each
shaft and a belt to run between them, but where do I go to get these kinds
of things and how do I figure out what size gear to put on each shaft? The
shafts are slightly different diameter, but I could probably rig something
up to connect them directly, but I've heard that it isn't a good idea to do
that because a foreign object (eg. pebble) in the grain would end up
damaging the rollers instead of causing the belt to slip and give me time to
cut the power.
Bill
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Date: 24 Nov 2006 17:43:29
From: Tony M
Subject: Re: How to motorize a malt mill
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I don't have a grain mill or the motor your speaking of so this is all
speculation. I would think that using a belt between the two shafts would
work pretty good. As far as the different size shafts I don't really see how
it would make that much of a difference if you used two of the same size
pulleys on each shaft since you said that you do want it to slip a little
for the occasional rock in the mill. The short amount of time the motor will
be running and the belt constantly slipping a little shouldn't produce
enough heat to damage anything. I did a search on eBay and found alot of
listings for cheap pulleys that would work. Or you could probably find the
appropriate pulley and belt combo at autozone.
Tony
-= PROCRASTINATE (pro.cras.ti.nate) To drag one's ass in such a pathetic
manner as to ensure one's place in life as a loser. - Bobby Long =-
"Bill Crisafulli" <wiscer_remove_this_@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:BWJ9h.3800$wc5.2181@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
>I have been keeping my eyes open for a motor to use to motorize my JSP Malt
>Mill. My electric garage door opener was replaced, and I salvaged the
>motor from the unit. While it had a bit of trouble raising the hundreds of
>pounds of garage door, I suspect it will have plenty of power and torque to
>mill grain. So I opened the housing and removed the motor. Now I've got a
>motor with three wires coming out (I assume the white one is hot and the
>red and blue ones are forward and reverse direction but I haven't figured
>that out yet) and the bracket to mount it to a board.
>
> The question is, how do I connect the shaft of the motor to the shaft of
> the mill? I assume that I should get some gear/belt guides to attach to
> each shaft and a belt to run between them, but where do I go to get these
> kinds of things and how do I figure out what size gear to put on each
> shaft? The shafts are slightly different diameter, but I could probably
> rig something up to connect them directly, but I've heard that it isn't a
> good idea to do that because a foreign object (eg. pebble) in the grain
> would end up damaging the rollers instead of causing the belt to slip and
> give me time to cut the power.
>
> Bill
>
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Date: 25 Nov 2006 14:59:52
From: Bob F
Subject: Re: How to motorize a malt mill
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"Bill Crisafulli" <wiscer_remove_this_@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:BWJ9h.3800$wc5.2181@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
> I have been keeping my eyes open for a motor to use to motorize my JSP
Malt
> Mill. My electric garage door opener was replaced, and I salvaged the
motor
> from the unit. While it had a bit of trouble raising the hundreds of
pounds
> of garage door, I suspect it will have plenty of power and torque to mill
> grain. So I opened the housing and removed the motor. Now I've got a
motor
> with three wires coming out (I assume the white one is hot and the red and
> blue ones are forward and reverse direction but I haven't figured that out
> yet) and the bracket to mount it to a board.
>
> The question is, how do I connect the shaft of the motor to the shaft of
the
> mill? I assume that I should get some gear/belt guides to attach to each
> shaft and a belt to run between them, but where do I go to get these kinds
> of things and how do I figure out what size gear to put on each shaft?
The
> shafts are slightly different diameter, but I could probably rig something
> up to connect them directly, but I've heard that it isn't a good idea to
do
> that because a foreign object (eg. pebble) in the grain would end up
> damaging the rollers instead of causing the belt to slip and give me time
to
> cut the power.
>
I would suggest a large pulley on the mill and a small one on the
motor to get the speed down to a reasonable level, and increase
the torque. Buy the pulleys to match the shafts, and the belt to
match the distance between the pulleys when mounted. If you
operated the mill at motor speed (3600 RPM?), the inertia alone
could cause damage when a pebble comes through. Many people
use a drill, which is probably geared down to 600-1000 RPM.
Personally, I would aim to run it no more the 2-3 times hand
crank speed, just for control and safety.
Bob
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Date: 26 Nov 2006 08:21:10
From: OrganicVeggie
Subject: Re: How to motorize a malt mill
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Bill Crisafulli wrote:
> The question is, how do I connect the shaft of the motor to the shaft of the
> mill? I assume that I should get some gear/belt guides to attach to each
> shaft and a belt to run between them, but where do I go to get these kinds
> of things and how do I figure out what size gear to put on each shaft? The
> shafts are slightly different diameter, but I could probably rig something
> up to connect them directly, but I've heard that it isn't a good idea to do
> that because a foreign object (eg. pebble) in the grain would end up
> damaging the rollers instead of causing the belt to slip and give me time to
> cut the power.
Mike Dixon wrote an excellent article on this very subject:
http://www.hbd.org/carboy/motorizing_a_malt_mill.htm
He talks, in depth, about calculating the size of the pulleys and
v-belt. He also has a quote at the bottom from Jack Schmidling
regarding motorizing JSP mills:
~snip~
For reasons of product liability and greedy lawyers, we do not give
recommendations on motorizing our product. It is shipped with a
handcrank and it is presumed that if a user wishes to motorize it, the
user assumes the responsibility and risk. We expect the user of such a
modified mill to call a doctor and not a lawyer in the event that
injury results from motorizing it.
We can however, provide information that users have found to work well.
The mill should not be run beyond about 500 RPM as the efficiency
starts dropping at around this speed because malt is thrown around
rather than being fed through the rollers.
~snip~
I used Mike's article to motorize my JSP MaltMill w/a 3/4HP 1800 RPM
motor and it turned out great. It runs at around 250 RPM and crushes 20
pounds of grain in only a few minutes. I'll try to post some pictures.
-Sean
---
I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it.
--- Groucho Marx
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Date: 26 Nov 2006 07:49:45
From: leo
Subject: Re: How to motorize a malt mill
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I bought a pulley ( actually two at Grainger)
I have a 1.5 " x 1/2 and a 12" x1/2 and use a 3/8 belt.
an electric motor usually runs at 1750 rpm and you really want the mill to
run at around 300 rpm or so. (These #'s are from memory), they also have
shaft bushings to fit most shaft sizes the pulleys come with 1/2" shaft
openings
http://www.csgnetwork.com/pulleybeltcalc.html
This link will tell you what you need, as far as sizes go
Then check www.Grainger.com
Hope this helps. if not please contact me for further assistance
"Bill Crisafulli" <wiscer_remove_this_@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:BWJ9h.3800$wc5.2181@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
>I have been keeping my eyes open for a motor to use to motorize my JSP Malt
>Mill. My electric garage door opener was replaced, and I salvaged the
>motor from the unit. While it had a bit of trouble raising the hundreds of
>pounds of garage door, I suspect it will have plenty of power and torque to
>mill grain. So I opened the housing and removed the motor. Now I've got a
>motor with three wires coming out (I assume the white one is hot and the
>red and blue ones are forward and reverse direction but I haven't figured
>that out yet) and the bracket to mount it to a board.
>
> The question is, how do I connect the shaft of the motor to the shaft of
> the mill? I assume that I should get some gear/belt guides to attach to
> each shaft and a belt to run between them, but where do I go to get these
> kinds of things and how do I figure out what size gear to put on each
> shaft? The shafts are slightly different diameter, but I could probably
> rig something up to connect them directly, but I've heard that it isn't a
> good idea to do that because a foreign object (eg. pebble) in the grain
> would end up damaging the rollers instead of causing the belt to slip and
> give me time to cut the power.
>
> Bill
>
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 00:58:51
From: Steve/Aus
Subject: Re: How to motorize a malt mill
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"leo" <snaproll7@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:OuOdnWtONdzxEPTYnZ2dnUVZ_uydnZ2d@comcast.com...
>I bought a pulley ( actually two at Grainger)
> I have a 1.5 " x 1/2 and a 12" x1/2 and use a 3/8 belt.
> an electric motor usually runs at 1750 rpm and you really want the mill to
> run at around 300 rpm or so. (These #'s are from memory), they also have
> shaft bushings to fit most shaft sizes the pulleys come with 1/2" shaft
> openings
> http://www.csgnetwork.com/pulleybeltcalc.html
> This link will tell you what you need, as far as sizes go
> Then check www.Grainger.com
> Hope this helps. if not please contact me for further assistance
>
>
> "Bill Crisafulli" <wiscer_remove_this_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:BWJ9h.3800$wc5.2181@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
>>I have been keeping my eyes open for a motor to use to motorize my JSP
>>Malt Mill. My electric garage door opener was replaced, and I salvaged
>>the motor from the unit. While it had a bit of trouble raising the
>>hundreds of pounds of garage door, I suspect it will have plenty of power
>>and torque to mill grain. So I opened the housing and removed the motor.
>>Now I've got a motor with three wires coming out (I assume the white one
>>is hot and the red and blue ones are forward and reverse direction but I
>>haven't figured that out yet) and the bracket to mount it to a board.
>>
>> The question is, how do I connect the shaft of the motor to the shaft of
>> the mill? I assume that I should get some gear/belt guides to attach to
>> each shaft and a belt to run between them, but where do I go to get these
>> kinds of things and how do I figure out what size gear to put on each
>> shaft? The shafts are slightly different diameter, but I could probably
>> rig something up to connect them directly, but I've heard that it isn't a
>> good idea to do that because a foreign object (eg. pebble) in the grain
>> would end up damaging the rollers instead of causing the belt to slip and
>> give me time to cut the power.
>>
>> Bill
>>
I mounted a self-aligning bearing directly in front of the mill shaft and
bolted it firmly to the same base plate as the mill and motor are mounted
on.
This takes all the strain of the V-belt.
You can use the same shaft as the mill if it is long enough. If not, connect
the two shafts together with a metal pipe and grub screws.
This method makes it quite easy to motorise a mill because you can buy
self-aligning bearings with grub screws to secure the shaft which you can
buy separate then, all you got to do is to connect the two shafts which is
easy.
This picture shows my mill - not a very good one but it works well.
Behind the big pulley is the self-aligning bearing mount that takes the
pressure rather than puting pressure on the roller journals within the mill.
http://blogadelaide.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/The%20malt%20mill.jpg
Steve W (in Aus)
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 20:26:56
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: How to motorize a malt mill
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On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 21:58:57 GMT, <wiscer_remove_this_@hotmail.com > wrote:
> I have been keeping my eyes open for a motor to use to motorize my JSP Malt
> Mill. My electric garage door opener was replaced, and I salvaged the motor
> from the unit. While it had a bit of trouble raising the hundreds of pounds
> of garage door, I suspect it will have plenty of power and torque to mill
> grain. So I opened the housing and removed the motor. Now I've got a motor
> with three wires coming out (I assume the white one is hot and the red and
> blue ones are forward and reverse direction but I haven't figured that out
> yet) and the bracket to mount it to a board.
>
> The question is, how do I connect the shaft of the motor to the shaft of the
> mill? I assume that I should get some gear/belt guides to attach to each
> shaft and a belt to run between them, but where do I go to get these kinds
> of things and how do I figure out what size gear to put on each shaft? The
> shafts are slightly different diameter, but I could probably rig something
> up to connect them directly, but I've heard that it isn't a good idea to do
> that because a foreign object (eg. pebble) in the grain would end up
> damaging the rollers instead of causing the belt to slip and give me time to
> cut the power.
I used two gears and a v-belt for mine. I got all the stuff I needed
from Graingers, although you can check to see if your local hardware store
has any of the stuff.
What size gears to get will depend on what the RPM rating of your motor is,
and what RPM you want to run the mill at. The manufacturer of my mill
recommended to run it at around 300 RPM and the motor I have runs at something
like 1500 or 1700 RPM (can't remember), so I just did the math and figured out
what size gears would step it down to that speed. I think I ended up with
something like a 10" gear on the mill and a 1.5" gear on the motor, but it's
been a long time since I set mine up so the exact numbers are a bit fuzzy.
John.
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Date: 27 Nov 2006 13:44:00
From: Bob F
Subject: Re: How to motorize a malt mill
|
"John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" <spam@shagg.net > wrote in message
news:slrnemmiqd.3sc.spam@weizen.shagg.net...
> On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 21:58:57 GMT, <wiscer_remove_this_@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > I have been keeping my eyes open for a motor to use to motorize my JSP
Malt
> > Mill. My electric garage door opener was replaced, and I salvaged the
motor
> > from the unit. While it had a bit of trouble raising the hundreds of
pounds
> > of garage door, I suspect it will have plenty of power and torque to
mill
> > grain. So I opened the housing and removed the motor. Now I've got a
motor
> > with three wires coming out (I assume the white one is hot and the red
and
> > blue ones are forward and reverse direction but I haven't figured that
out
> > yet) and the bracket to mount it to a board.
> >
> > The question is, how do I connect the shaft of the motor to the shaft of
the
> > mill? I assume that I should get some gear/belt guides to attach to
each
> > shaft and a belt to run between them, but where do I go to get these
kinds
> > of things and how do I figure out what size gear to put on each shaft?
The
> > shafts are slightly different diameter, but I could probably rig
something
> > up to connect them directly, but I've heard that it isn't a good idea to
do
> > that because a foreign object (eg. pebble) in the grain would end up
> > damaging the rollers instead of causing the belt to slip and give me
time to
> > cut the power.
>
> I used two gears and a v-belt for mine. I got all the stuff I needed
> from Graingers, although you can check to see if your local hardware store
> has any of the stuff.
>
> What size gears to get will depend on what the RPM rating of your motor
is,
> and what RPM you want to run the mill at. The manufacturer of my mill
> recommended to run it at around 300 RPM and the motor I have runs at
something
> like 1500 or 1700 RPM (can't remember), so I just did the math and figured
out
> what size gears would step it down to that speed. I think I ended up with
> something like a 10" gear on the mill and a 1.5" gear on the motor, but
it's
> been a long time since I set mine up so the exact numbers are a bit fuzzy.
>
By "gears", I assume you mean "pulleys"?
Bob
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Date: 28 Nov 2006 07:53:40
From: MDixon
Subject: Re: How to motorize a malt mill
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Bob F wrote:
> By "gears", I assume you mean "pulleys"?
>
He means sheaves...
Cheers,
Mike
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Date: 28 Nov 2006 11:24:42
From: Bob F
Subject: Re: How to motorize a malt mill
|
"MDixon" <me@privacy.net > wrote in message
news:4t2pq7F12aum2U1@mid.individual.net...
> Bob F wrote:
> > By "gears", I assume you mean "pulleys"?
> >
>
> He means sheaves...
That's a new one on me. I've never even seen the word before.
Thanks.
Bob
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Date: 28 Nov 2006 21:09:31
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: How to motorize a malt mill
|
On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 13:44:00 -0800, <bobnospam@gmail.com > wrote:
>> I used two gears and a v-belt for mine. I got all the stuff I needed
>> from Graingers, although you can check to see if your local hardware store
>> has any of the stuff.
>>
>> What size gears to get will depend on what the RPM rating of your motor
> is,
>> and what RPM you want to run the mill at. The manufacturer of my mill
>> recommended to run it at around 300 RPM and the motor I have runs at
> something
>> like 1500 or 1700 RPM (can't remember), so I just did the math and figured
> out
>> what size gears would step it down to that speed. I think I ended up with
>> something like a 10" gear on the mill and a 1.5" gear on the motor, but
> it's
>> been a long time since I set mine up so the exact numbers are a bit fuzzy.
>>
>
> By "gears", I assume you mean "pulleys"?
Yep, you're right. I was just using the same terminology the original
poster did. But techically I think they're pulleys, not gears.
John.
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Date: 28 Nov 2006 16:35:08
From: Bill Crisafulli
Subject: Re: How to motorize a malt mill
|
Well, this isn't the answer I was hoping to get from the Garage Door Opener
manufacturer!!! I sent them an email asking what the RPM was for the motor.
Looks like I am going to need to get a different motor.
At least I know not to open and close my garage door 6 times in a row now!
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: technical.support@chamberlaingroup.com
To: Bill Crisafulli
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 7:02 AM
Subject: Re: Troubleshooting Inquiry from Chamberlain DIY Web Site
Mr. Crisafulli,
I cannot give any information out about the opener if I know the opener is
being used for something other than operating a garage door. I do not think
the opener will work for your specification. The opener is designed to
operate 5 complete cycles and then the motor over heats. The motor takes on
average 45 minutes to cool off.
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Date: 28 Nov 2006 11:04:58
From: The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
Subject: Re: How to motorize a malt mill
|
Bill Crisafulli wrote:
> Well, this isn't the answer I was hoping to get from the Garage Door Opener
> manufacturer!!! I sent them an email asking what the RPM was for the motor.
> Looks like I am going to need to get a different motor.
>
> At least I know not to open and close my garage door 6 times in a row now!
The heating may or may not be a problem, as it will vary a lot with the
load on the motor. I'm guessing that the load of opening and closing a
garage door is significantly higher than running a mill.
However this is only a guess -- over the long run you're probably better
off with a motor designed for continuous rather than intermittent
operation. Note that there are lots of sources for surplus AC motors out
there. Here are a couple:
C&H Sales is a pretty good outfit. The usually have a wide variety and
are pretty good about providing specs.
http://www.candhsales.biz
Herbach and Rademan are another good surplus source. I believe they also
have a pretty good return policy:
http://www.herbach.com/
I've used both of these companies for robotics projects and have had
good results. Hope that helps -- m
--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
Buy several copies today!
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Date: 28 Nov 2006 11:39:49
From: Wayne
Subject: Re: How to motorize a malt mill
|
The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty wrote:
> Bill Crisafulli wrote:
>> Well, this isn't the answer I was hoping to get from the Garage Door
>> Opener manufacturer!!! I sent them an email asking what the RPM was
>> for the motor. Looks like I am going to need to get a different motor.
>>
>> At least I know not to open and close my garage door 6 times in a row
>> now!
>
> The heating may or may not be a problem, as it will vary a lot with the
> load on the motor. I'm guessing that the load of opening and closing a
> garage door is significantly higher than running a mill.
>
> However this is only a guess -- over the long run you're probably better
> off with a motor designed for continuous rather than intermittent
> operation. Note that there are lots of sources for surplus AC motors out
> there. Here are a couple:
>
> C&H Sales is a pretty good outfit. The usually have a wide variety and
> are pretty good about providing specs.
>
> http://www.candhsales.biz
>
> Herbach and Rademan are another good surplus source. I believe they also
> have a pretty good return policy:
>
> http://www.herbach.com/
>
>
> I've used both of these companies for robotics projects and have had
> good results. Hope that helps -- m
>
Here is another source for mill motors:
http://www.surpluscenter.com/sort.asp?UID=2006112811380941&catname=&byKeyword=yes&search=bodine
Wayne
Bugeater Brewing Company
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Date: 28 Nov 2006 11:29:48
From: Bob F
Subject: Re: How to motorize a malt mill
|
"Bill Crisafulli" <wiscer_remove_this_@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:0zZah.988$Py2.908@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
> Well, this isn't the answer I was hoping to get from the Garage Door
Opener
> manufacturer!!! I sent them an email asking what the RPM was for the
motor.
> Looks like I am going to need to get a different motor.
>
> At least I know not to open and close my garage door 6 times in a row now!
>
> Bill
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: technical.support@chamberlaingroup.com
> To: Bill Crisafulli
> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 7:02 AM
> Subject: Re: Troubleshooting Inquiry from Chamberlain DIY Web Site
>
>
> Mr. Crisafulli,
>
> I cannot give any information out about the opener if I know the opener is
> being used for something other than operating a garage door. I do not
think
> the opener will work for your specification. The opener is designed to
> operate 5 complete cycles and then the motor over heats. The motor takes
on
> average 45 minutes to cool off.
>
>
You asked the right people the right question.
Furnace fan motors go into the garbage or recycling centers all the
time. Try asking on your local freecycle or craigslist for one. You'll
probably get it free. Lots of old furnaces use simple 2 wire 110 volt
pulley drive motors.
Bob
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Date: 28 Nov 2006 06:59:29
From: OrganicVeggie
Subject: Re: How to motorize a malt mill
|
On Nov 28, 8:44 am, "OrganicVeggie" <organicveg...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Just for posterity, the basic idea for calculating sheaves and belt
> size is as follows:
Ooops. I forgot to mention how to calculate the size of the v-belt. :)
In the example above, we used a 2" sheave on the motor and a 12" sheave
on the mill. The two sheaves must be far enough apart so that they
don't touch (kind of important *wink*). So, the shafts of the motor and
the mill must be farther apart than the radius of the motor sheave plus
the radius of the mill sheave: 1" + 6" = 7"
The distance between two sheaves can be approximated with the following
formula:
L = 2C + 1.57(D + d)
L = total belt length
C = center distance of the shafts
D = mill sheave pitch diameter
d = motor sheave pitch diameter
Using some basic math properties we can easily rearrange the equation
as follows:
C = (L - 1.57(D+d))/2
Then you just take a look at the available lengths of v-belt and plug
them into the equation. The calculated value for C must be greater than
the sum of the sheave radii (7"). Using the numbers from before, we
have a 1.85" motor sheave pitch diameter and an 11.85" mill sheave
pitch diameter.
L = 20", C = >1" (not far enough apart)
L = 30", C = 5.76" (not far enough apart)
L = 40", C = 9.25" (okay, but a little on the close side)
L = 50", C = 14.25" (generous)
With all of those pieces in hand, I attached the sheaves to the motor
and mill shafts. Then I bolted the motor to a piece of 3/4" plywood
large enough to hold both the motor and the mill. On my JSP MaltMill, I
routed out three slots approximately 3" long on the base plate: 1x slot
in the front and two in the back. I set the MaltMill on the 3/4" ply
and placed the v-belt loosely on the sheaves. Using a pencil, I marked
the plywood where center of the slots on the mill base plate. I drilled
holes through the plywood and ran heavy duty bolts through the slots in
the mill base plate and the holes in the plywood. The slots allowed me
to slide the mill forward and back to make installing/removing the
v-belt easier.
-S
---
I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it.
--- Groucho Marx
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Date: 28 Nov 2006 18:21:32
From: MDixon
Subject: Re: How to motorize a malt mill
|
OrganicVeggie wrote:
> On Nov 28, 8:44 am, "OrganicVeggie" <organicveg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Just for posterity, the basic idea for calculating sheaves and belt
>> size is as follows:
>
> Ooops. I forgot to mention how to calculate the size of the v-belt. :)
>
> In the example above, we used a 2" sheave on the motor and a 12" sheave
> on the mill. The two sheaves must be far enough apart so that they
> don't touch (kind of important *wink*). So, the shafts of the motor and
> the mill must be farther apart than the radius of the motor sheave plus
> the radius of the mill sheave: 1" + 6" = 7"
>
> The distance between two sheaves can be approximated with the following
> formula:
>
> L = 2C + 1.57(D + d)
>
> L = total belt length
>
> C = center distance of the shafts
>
> D = mill sheave pitch diameter
>
> d = motor sheave pitch diameter
>
> Using some basic math properties we can easily rearrange the equation
> as follows:
>
> C = (L - 1.57(D+d))/2
>
> Then you just take a look at the available lengths of v-belt and plug
> them into the equation. The calculated value for C must be greater than
> the sum of the sheave radii (7"). Using the numbers from before, we
> have a 1.85" motor sheave pitch diameter and an 11.85" mill sheave
> pitch diameter.
>
> L = 20", C = >1" (not far enough apart)
>
> L = 30", C = 5.76" (not far enough apart)
>
> L = 40", C = 9.25" (okay, but a little on the close side)
>
> L = 50", C = 14.25" (generous)
>
> With all of those pieces in hand, I attached the sheaves to the motor
> and mill shafts. Then I bolted the motor to a piece of 3/4" plywood
> large enough to hold both the motor and the mill. On my JSP MaltMill, I
> routed out three slots approximately 3" long on the base plate: 1x slot
> in the front and two in the back. I set the MaltMill on the 3/4" ply
> and placed the v-belt loosely on the sheaves. Using a pencil, I marked
> the plywood where center of the slots on the mill base plate. I drilled
> holes through the plywood and ran heavy duty bolts through the slots in
> the mill base plate and the holes in the plywood. The slots allowed me
> to slide the mill forward and back to make installing/removing the
> v-belt easier.
>
> -S
>
I know you gave the link to my article earlier, but I wrote the majority
of your previous two posts in my article...
Cheers,
Mike
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| | | |
Date: 28 Nov 2006 23:01:35
From: Jack Schmidling
Subject: Re: How to motorize a malt mill
|
MDixon wrote:
> I know you gave the link to my article earlier, but I wrote the majority
> of your previous two posts in my article...
Just for drill, I went to the MM page to see if your link was still
working and was very impressed with all the info. You must have
expanded it since you first put it up.... no?
I was so impressed that my eyes glazed over before I could finish it.
There are only two points I would make just for the record.
The MM runs fine at 500 RPM but beyond that, efficiency is lost because
grain is tossed around instead of drawn through the rollers.
The other thing is the importance of opting for the largest drive pulley
on the mill that can be obtained. The reason being friction vs belt
tension. The speed can be achieved by many combinations of pullies but
the smaller the motor pulley, the less friction it can provide and the
more belt tension it requires. Belt tension stresses the shaft. We
have had several folks over the years, whose drive shafts just fell off
in use and they assumed the roller was defective.
You can lean on the shaft all day and nothing will happen to it and even
if it bends a little, it will return to normal when the stress is
removed. However if the shaft is rotating under stress, that stress
travels round and round and eventually, the shaft just falls off.
A one inch pulley on the motor and a 5" on the mill gets the ratio right
but requires a serious amount of belt tension to start the mill with a
full hopper. A 2-3 on the motor and 12" on the mill will run forever
and I believe this is the combination in Mike's article.
Nice article Mike.
js
--
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com
|
| | | | |
Date: 29 Nov 2006 06:57:44
From: MDixon
Subject: Re: How to motorize a malt mill
|
Jack Schmidling wrote:
> MDixon wrote:
>
>> I know you gave the link to my article earlier, but I wrote the
>> majority of your previous two posts in my article...
>
> Just for drill, I went to the MM page to see if your link was still
> working and was very impressed with all the info. You must have
> expanded it since you first put it up.... no?
>
> I was so impressed that my eyes glazed over before I could finish it.
>
> There are only two points I would make just for the record.
>
> The MM runs fine at 500 RPM but beyond that, efficiency is lost because
> grain is tossed around instead of drawn through the rollers.
>
> The other thing is the importance of opting for the largest drive pulley
> on the mill that can be obtained. The reason being friction vs belt
> tension. The speed can be achieved by many combinations of pullies but
> the smaller the motor pulley, the less friction it can provide and the
> more belt tension it requires. Belt tension stresses the shaft. We
> have had several folks over the years, whose drive shafts just fell off
> in use and they assumed the roller was defective.
>
> You can lean on the shaft all day and nothing will happen to it and even
> if it bends a little, it will return to normal when the stress is
> removed. However if the shaft is rotating under stress, that stress
> travels round and round and eventually, the shaft just falls off.
>
> A one inch pulley on the motor and a 5" on the mill gets the ratio right
> but requires a serious amount of belt tension to start the mill with a
> full hopper. A 2-3 on the motor and 12" on the mill will run forever
> and I believe this is the combination in Mike's article.
>
> Nice article Mike.
I've never updated it, but it could use the effort. One equation is off
and only one person ever found the small, but there, error...;)
Cheers,
Mike
|
| |
Date: 28 Nov 2006 06:44:11
From: OrganicVeggie
Subject: Re: How to motorize a malt mill
|
Just for posterity, the basic idea for calculating sheaves and belt
size is as follows:
1) Calculate speed reduction factor.
Ms / Ts = F
Ms is the motor speed in RPM
Ts is the target speed in RPM
F is the reduction factor
e.g.
1725 RPM / 300 RPM = 5.75
2) Select motor sheave smaller than reduction factor. Calculate pitch
diameter for mill sheave.
Md * F = md
Md is the motor sheave pitch diameter
F is the reduction factor
md is the mill sheave pitch diameter
e.g.
>From Grainger, a 2" sheave has a 1.85" pitch diameter:
1.85" x 5.75 = 10.64" (or greater pitch diameter)
3) Select mill sheave that is at least as large as the pitch diameter
calculated in step 2.
e.g.
>From Grainger, a 12" sheave has an 11.85" pitch diameter.
4) Calculate total RPM:
Ms * Md = ms * md
Ms is the motor speed in RPM
Md is the motor sheave pitch diameter
ms is the final mill speed in RPM
md is the mill sheave pitch diameter
e.g.
1725 RPM x 1.85" = mill speed x 11.85"
1725 RPM x 1.85" / 11.85" = 269.3 RPM
Hopefully that helps someone out.
-S
---
I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it.
--- Groucho Marx
|
| |
Date: 29 Nov 2006 06:58:34
From: OrganicVeggie
Subject: Re: How to motorize a malt mill
|
MDixon wrote:
> I know you gave the link to my article earlier, but I wrote the majority
> of your previous two posts in my article...
You're absolutely correct Mike. Looking back over my posts, I never
gave you proper credit. Please accept my apologies; I had no intention
of stealing your work.
-Sean
|
| | |
Date: 29 Nov 2006 17:46:52
From: MDixon
Subject: Re: How to motorize a malt mill
|
OrganicVeggie wrote:
> MDixon wrote:
>> I know you gave the link to my article earlier, but I wrote the majority
>> of your previous two posts in my article...
>
> You're absolutely correct Mike. Looking back over my posts, I never
> gave you proper credit. Please accept my apologies; I had no intention
> of stealing your work.
Hey, no problem, I just wanted to point out that it took a crapload of
research to find a formula for belt length and many, many hours to write
the article after weeks and weeks of research. My mill works great
however...;)
Cheers,
Mike
|
| |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 07:38:06
From: OrganicVeggie
Subject: Re: How to motorize a malt mill
|
MDixon wrote:
> Hey, no problem, I just wanted to point out that it took a crapload of
> research to find a formula for belt length and many, many hours to write
> the article after weeks and weeks of research. My mill works great
> however...;)
I believe very strongly in giving appropriate credit and I really
dropped the ball this time. I wish you could see the embarrassed look
on my face.
Believe me, I really really appreciated your article... I doubt I would
have been successful at motorizing my mill (which works perfectly, I
might add) without the article you wrote. My friends alternately
thought I was a complete dork or out of my mind... until I finished it
and we watched it crush 20# of grain in only a few minutes. *laugh*
The only reason I even posted it was because web pages have a nasty
habit of disappearing off the web and I didn't want it to get lost in
netherworld of cyberspace. Again, please accept my humble apologies.
And if there's anything I can do to make it up to you, just let me
know.
Thanks for being laid-back about the whole thing. I appreciate that as
well. :)
-Sean
--
You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It
helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear
weapons, but at the very least, you need a beer.
-- Frank Zappa
|
| | |
Date: 01 Dec 2006 08:14:08
From: MDixon
Subject: Re: How to motorize a malt mill
|
OrganicVeggie wrote:
> MDixon wrote:
>> Hey, no problem, I just wanted to point out that it took a crapload of
>> research to find a formula for belt length and many, many hours to write
>> the article after weeks and weeks of research. My mill works great
>> however...;)
>
> I believe very strongly in giving appropriate credit and I really
> dropped the ball this time. I wish you could see the embarrassed look
> on my face.
>
> Believe me, I really really appreciated your article... I doubt I would
> have been successful at motorizing my mill (which works perfectly, I
> might add) without the article you wrote. My friends alternately
> thought I was a complete dork or out of my mind... until I finished it
> and we watched it crush 20# of grain in only a few minutes. *laugh*
>
> The only reason I even posted it was because web pages have a nasty
> habit of disappearing off the web and I didn't want it to get lost in
> netherworld of cyberspace. Again, please accept my humble apologies.
> And if there's anything I can do to make it up to you, just let me
> know.
>
> Thanks for being laid-back about the whole thing. I appreciate that as
> well. :)
>
The worst bit I've seen is this one...
http://www.google.com/base/a/339982/D15664957601947309085
I tried to find the first time I described shoving a spigot into a
cooler for a mash tun but didn't locate it on the web. It had to be at
least 6 or 7 years ago. Now someone is selling it as a kit...kinda bogus...
I wonder if they know the holes go down...;)
Cheers,
Mike
|
| |
Date: 01 Dec 2006 07:18:06
From: OrganicVeggie
Subject: Re: How to motorize a malt mill
|
MDixon wrote:
> OrganicVeggie wrote:
> > Thanks for being laid-back about the whole thing. I appreciate that as
> > well. :)
>
> The worst bit I've seen is this one...
> http://www.google.com/base/a/339982/D15664957601947309085
>
> I tried to find the first time I described shoving a spigot into a
> cooler for a mash tun but didn't locate it on the web. It had to be at
> least 6 or 7 years ago. Now someone is selling it as a kit...kinda bogus...
Wow, that sucks. Ugh. Talk about frustrating. Could be worse though, at
least no one has tried to patent your invention.
Did you try searching the Wayback Machine? I tried searching on "picnic
cooler mash tun", but they're currently "experiencing technical
difficulties".
http://www.archive.org/index.php
> I wonder if they know the holes go down...;)
Heh heh heh. I saw that. Maybe you can hope that if the person isn't
smart enough to orient the holes downward, maybe they're not smart
enough to run a business... ;) On the other hand, how many of those
kits can they really be selling? It's not ~that~ difficult to cut,
cement and drill C/PVC. I can understand people buying things soldered
or welded together, because those tend to be a little more specialized
skill sets. I would rewrite your instructions and re-post them to
places like r.c.b. on a regular basis. :)
-Sean
|
| | |
Date: 01 Dec 2006 12:07:28
From: Bob F
Subject: Re: How to motorize a malt mill
|
"OrganicVeggie" <organicveggie@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1164986286.517990.217580@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> MDixon wrote:
> > OrganicVeggie wrote:
> > > Thanks for being laid-back about the whole thing. I appreciate that as
> > > well. :)
> >
> > The worst bit I've seen is this one...
> > http://www.google.com/base/a/339982/D15664957601947309085
> >
>
> > I wonder if they know the holes go down...;)
>
> Heh heh heh. I saw that. Maybe you can hope that if the person isn't
> smart enough to orient the holes downward, maybe they're not smart
> enough to run a business... ;) On the other hand, how many of those
> kits can they really be selling? It's not ~that~ difficult to cut,
> cement and drill C/PVC. I can understand people buying things soldered
> or welded together, because those tend to be a little more specialized
> skill sets. I would rewrite your instructions and re-post them to
> places like r.c.b. on a regular basis. :)
I saw that and decided that they just showed it with the holes up
so you could see the holes. I bet they tell you to assemble it the
other way.
Bob
|
| | | |
Date: 03 Dec 2006 18:37:28
From: MDixon
Subject: Re: How to motorize a malt mill
|
Bob F wrote:
> "OrganicVeggie" <organicveggie@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1164986286.517990.217580@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>> MDixon wrote:
>>> OrganicVeggie wrote:
>>>> Thanks for being laid-back about the whole thing. I appreciate that as
>>>> well. :)
>>> The worst bit I've seen is this one...
>>> http://www.google.com/base/a/339982/D15664957601947309085
>>>
>
>>> I wonder if they know the holes go down...;)
>> Heh heh heh. I saw that. Maybe you can hope that if the person isn't
>> smart enough to orient the holes downward, maybe they're not smart
>> enough to run a business... ;) On the other hand, how many of those
>> kits can they really be selling? It's not ~that~ difficult to cut,
>> cement and drill C/PVC. I can understand people buying things soldered
>> or welded together, because those tend to be a little more specialized
>> skill sets. I would rewrite your instructions and re-post them to
>> places like r.c.b. on a regular basis. :)
>
> I saw that and decided that they just showed it with the holes up
> so you could see the holes. I bet they tell you to assemble it the
> other way.
Do a search of the archives on how many times someone had to be told the
holes go down...;)
In case you thought I was joking...
392 hits for manifold holes down
128 for manifold slots down
157 for slots holes down
1560 for holes go down
207 for slots go down
Cheers,
Mike
|
| | | | |
Date: 04 Dec 2006 21:36:59
From: Bob F
Subject: Re: How to motorize a malt mill
|
"MDixon" <me@privacy.net > wrote in message
news:4th5doF13nbr9U1@mid.individual.net...
> Bob F wrote:
> > "OrganicVeggie" <organicveggie@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1164986286.517990.217580@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> >> MDixon wrote:
> >>> OrganicVeggie wrote:
> >>>> Thanks for being laid-back about the whole thing. I appreciate that
as
> >>>> well. :)
> >>> The worst bit I've seen is this one...
> >>> http://www.google.com/base/a/339982/D15664957601947309085
> >>>
> >
> >>> I wonder if they know the holes go down...;)
> >> Heh heh heh. I saw that. Maybe you can hope that if the person isn't
> >> smart enough to orient the holes downward, maybe they're not smart
> >> enough to run a business... ;) On the other hand, how many of those
> >> kits can they really be selling? It's not ~that~ difficult to cut,
> >> cement and drill C/PVC. I can understand people buying things soldered
> >> or welded together, because those tend to be a little more specialized
> >> skill sets. I would rewrite your instructions and re-post them to
> >> places like r.c.b. on a regular basis. :)
> >
> > I saw that and decided that they just showed it with the holes up
> > so you could see the holes. I bet they tell you to assemble it the
> > other way.
>
> Do a search of the archives on how many times someone had to be told the
> holes go down...;)
>
> In case you thought I was joking...
> 392 hits for manifold holes down
> 128 for manifold slots down
> 157 for slots holes down
> 1560 for holes go down
> 207 for slots go down
>
LOL. I'm not sure exactly why, but I'm LOL.
Bob
|
| |
Date: 01 Dec 2006 10:47:55
From: Matt
Subject: Re: How to motorize a malt mill
|
I have a question which is somewhat related to this thread. I just
picked up a new grain mill which I'd planned on running with a drill. I
just tested it out and the drill kicks in at high speed of 1200 rpms
and can't be slowed down by backing off the trigger. I've heard that
300 rpms is optimal. What's going to happen if I speed crush my grain
other that crush it really fast?
|
| | |
Date: 01 Dec 2006 19:13:19
From: John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
Subject: Re: How to motorize a malt mill
|
On 1 Dec 2006 10:47:55 -0800, <djembefola24@yahoo.com > wrote:
> I have a question which is somewhat related to this thread. I just
> picked up a new grain mill which I'd planned on running with a drill. I
> just tested it out and the drill kicks in at high speed of 1200 rpms
> and can't be slowed down by backing off the trigger. I've heard that
> 300 rpms is optimal. What's going to happen if I speed crush my grain
> other that crush it really fast?
A couple bad things could happen. Depending on the design of the mill,
you might be putting a lot of wear and tear on the bearings and possibly
cause early failure. It's also been said that if the mill runs too fast
(above 500-600 RPM) it actually crushes slower because a lot of the grains
are being bounced around by the high speed of the rollers instead of being
drawn through them.
Usually if you're going to drive a mill with a drill, you want a multi-speed
drill so that you can run it at slower RPMs.
John.
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|
